On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 13:14:55 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Ah but your DNA (Deity Nominated Archive) knows!

I wish that area wasn't such a minefield.

Good: genetic predisposition to excellence at dribbling a basketball
Bad: genetic predisposition to burn buildings down when dissatisfied

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:19:10 +0100, D wrote:

> An acquaintance had a grandmother who smoked until she was 70 or so, and
> one day she said... "I've had it, I quit smoking now" and just like
> that,
> over a day, she quit smoking.

I was in my 20s but that is what I did. No withdrawal other than the
actions associated with reaching for a cigarette. I could see those for
what they were, a conditioned act, rather than a desire for a cigarette.

Sometime later I read an article about some fatal disease that caused
people to spontaneously stop smoking. That doesn't seem to have been the
case.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 08:56:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> We have big brains not to compose music or do science, but to walk
> upright...

I manage to walk but I did find that with Nordic skiing if you start to
think about what you're doing you'll be picking yourself up out of a snaw
drift.

I also learned to ride a bicycle at an early age. When I needed to get a
motorcycle endorsement on my license I found if you took a class the state
testing was waived. During the class they explained the physics of
counter-steering and how you're really pushing the bars in the opposite
direction of your intended direction. Armed with all that new knowledge I
damn near killed myself. I always thought you just looked where you wanted
to go and it happened.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:23:39 +0100, D wrote:

> I also thought about it at university but came to the conclusion that my
> math skills were not strong enough. But, I would have been too early for
> the current AI boom anyway.

AI can fall under the cognitive science umbrella but it isn't the whole
discipline. My degree is in psychology which always needed some
explanation. It was experimental psychology heavily influenced by
Skinnerian behaviorism. I know a lot about the brain structure of a white
rat but you didn't ask the rats what they were thinking. I don't know
squat about the 'Psychology Today' type of crap.

The first two year's curriculum was the same for all programs so I had
good grounding in physics, chemistry, math, and programming, if FORTRAN
can be considered programming. After that there was a good deal of
latitude. For example one of my electives was differential equations since
I thought it might be useful but it wasn't a requirement.

At the time the degree was as useful as one in modern drama unless you
wanted to pursue an academic career but I found gainful employment. Then
as now unless you were a classical civil or electrical engineer you had to
figure stuff out on the fly as it happened. Eventually programming and rat
running converged.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 03:00:48 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Kinda amazed they work at all. There's also a weird,
> almost 'holographic', nature to them - some of those kids blasted by
> hydrocephalus, with little grey matter left, still managed average or
> even a bit above average IQs. It's the same with 'cerebral palsy'
> cases. They STILL produce a 'person' in there. The System WANTS to
> work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

Old Phineas was a legend in the 'how the hell does it work?' circles.

Lashley was a bit more scientific. He trained rats to run a maze and then
selectively zapped parts of their brains. It didn't seem to slow the rats
down. Where or what, exactly, got trained.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Lashley

TMI: There is a fixture used when working with rats in conjunction with a
3D atlas of their brains. It has a rail that you put the rat's front teeth
over and two thumbscrews that you screw into the external auditory meatus,
i.e. the rat's ears. Now you have a stable platform for the Cartesian
coordinates of what you're aiming for.

No, the rat isn't protesting. You've previously dropped him in a gallon
jar with a cotton ball soaked in ether. It isn't an exact process and
sometimes you may have to do a little artificial respiration.

The rat eventually comes around after his new mods. You don't ask him what
he thinks about the whole deal because behaviorists don't care what
anybody thinks about.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:06:00 +0100, D wrote:

> Nonense... what doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

I do really believe that.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:07:53 +0100, D wrote:

> As long as there's forest or water I'm happy. Very neutral on mountains.
> The wife however, loves moutains, and that severely limits the places
> where we can move, but I think she'll be ok with a pine forest. She
> hates leafy trees though. Hmm, very picky woman, now that I think of it!

Western US. Other than cottonwoods along the rivers or some aspens, if it
has leaves somebody planted it. There are a lot of maples, chestnuts, and
a few oaks in town, all of which are non-native. A few years back the city
went through one of the parks and took out all the non-native species. It
was pretty naked for a while.

Ft. Wayne IN is flat and surrounded by soybean fields. When I worked there
I had to periodically go to southern Indiana where there are at least some
hills to preserve my sanity.

Water? You do know about Njord and Skadi...

https://historiska.se/norse-mythology/skadi-en/

On 2024-12-21, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:06:00 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Nonense... what doesn't kill us makes us stronger!
>
> I do really believe that.

Or you could change one letter:

What doesn't kill us makes us stranger.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:04:44 +0100, D wrote:

> This is a strong, scientific argument in favour of a pony tail! I do not
> think I have the genetics to grow my hair that long though. My beard
> stops growing after about 0.5-1 cm or so to my great sorrow. =(

I manage a respectable beard but I'm definitely not in the ZZ Top class.
Maybe 15 cm. It has lost bulk with age but my ponytail always had a limit
too, not like some of the women with hair down to their butt. I'm not sure
how that works.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:14:28 +0100, D wrote:

> Yeah... he's not my favourite pope. I wonder if there will be a huge
> backlash and a super conservative pope when it's time for him to go? I
> heard rumours that one contender for the papacy is the only swedish
> cardinal Anders (?) Arborelius.

I had hopes for Benedict. I think he got tired of a fight he knew he
wasn't going to win. There is a lot of local controversy after the bishop
banned the Latin Mass altogether. I think there is a Society of Saint Pius
V priest who still does a traditional Mass two or three Sundays a month.
SSPV is sedevacantist, rather than SSPX which skates on thin ice which is
a quandary for the trads who don't want to go the whole route.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:17:41 +0100, D wrote:

> I'm following the career of Musk with great interest! I wonder if he
> will be the first trillionaire? I also wonder if he will eventually burn
> out or if something will happen to him since he's achieved so much in
> such a short time.

I'm not nominating Musk but I do believe the out of fashion Great Man
theory. With the mediocrity of the political class you get nothing but
mediocrity, or equity as they style in.

On 21/12/2024 21:29, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:17:41 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I'm following the career of Musk with great interest! I wonder if he
>> will be the first trillionaire? I also wonder if he will eventually burn
>> out or if something will happen to him since he's achieved so much in
>> such a short time.
>
> I'm not nominating Musk but I do believe the out of fashion Great Man
> theory. With the mediocrity of the political class you get nothing but
> mediocrity, or equity as they style in.

If you can be fired for making a wrong decision you will never make the
right one

--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:11:02 +0100, D wrote:

> Jesus! What a crime! The airport in Lithuania has a part that is old
> 20th century style, and now they are expanding the airport with... you
> guessed it, an anonymous glass and concrete structure, just like every
> other airport on the planet. =( I like the old part and was hoping that
> they'd continue on that theme, but no... the architects need to get
> their pound of flesh! =(

Quite a few of my college friends were studying architecture and their
hero was Mies van der Rohe. I'm afraid those seeds have prevailed. He's
one German immigrant we could have lived without.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 09:54:27 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> Absolutely yes. People group themselves in all sorts of ways: shared
> language, shared religion, shared territory, shared enemy, shared
> preferred computing platform. Pretty much anything you can think of.

Shared territory, or civic nationalism, appears to have its limits. The
aftermath of WWI showed you can't draw lines on a map and say
'Congratulations! You're a country!"

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 21/12/2024 11:17, D wrote:
>> I have on my to do list to start a zeppelin airline between europe and new
>> york. I just need to utilize synchronicity to bump into Richard Branson or
>> other billionaire of choice first, and then we're off! =D
>
> Frankly a nuclear powered ship would be quicker, safer and FAR more
> luxurious.

This is the truth. But it would hardly be cheaper. =(

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 21/12/2024 11:19, D wrote:
>> This is very strange. How come bodies react so differently to cigarettes?
>> I've known old people in their 80s and 90s who smoked all their lives, and
>> I've heard about people in their 50s and 60s dieing of lung cancer. Very
>> strange how differently cigarettes affect peoples health.
>>
>> An acquaintance had a grandmother who smoked until she was 70 or so, and
>> one day she said... "I've had it, I quit smoking now" and just like that,
>> over a day, she quit smoking.
>
> I quit twice. Finally 10 years ago
>
> But I still have pretty bad lung damage these days.

This is not so good. =( Maybe stem cells can improve that?

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 21/12/2024 11:22, D wrote:
>> The "only" thing lacking is the integrating "ego"-layer that coordinates
>> all these separate systems we've developed, and provides the AI with
>> volition/initiative/independence.
>
> That applies to human brains as well

;)

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:22:02 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> The "only" thing lacking is the integrating "ego"-layer that coordinates
>> all these separate systems we've developed, and provides the AI with
>> volition/initiative/independence.
>
> This veers into philosophy again. Do humans really have an ego that wills
> or are we only along for the ride as the wetware works its magic and the
> linguistic neurons weave a tale to whisper in our ears?
>

Enter the millenias of discussion about free will! I think the current
fashion is compatibilism.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:02:55 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Interesting! Reminds me of an arabian I met once who had a nice business
>> going on exporting chicken feet from brazil, selling them in hong kong.
>> Maybe Hutterite turkey nippon LLC could be a thing!
>
> We stole their Waygu cattle so we should give them turkeys. I've gotten
> the so-called wagyu beef; tastes a lot like Angus to me. I hope the real
> Japanese stuff is better.
>

I had argentinian "wagyu" and it was absolutely divine! Far, far better
than anything european I've had before.

On 12/21/24 4:54 AM, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> writes:
>> On 12/20/24 4:18 AM, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> writes:
>>>> However there is ONE group - the Basques - who seem to have come
>>>> quite early and were not over-run.
>>> The local language does seem to have been resistant to replacement
>>> for a
>>> few thousand years. However the population genetics is rather less
>>> static, with almost complete Y-chromosome replacement by R1b-M269 after
>>> 2000BCE.
>>
>> I'd heard that - but don't ask me for a ref.
>>
>>> See e.g. Olalde et al, The genomic history of the Iberian Peninsula over
>>> the past 8000 years.
>>
>> As I kinda menntioned in all this ... there's really just no such
>> thing as 'genetic purity' in Europe.
>
> Or anywhere else. You only get genetic purity in very isolated
> populations, and they start building up inherited diseases real
> quick. See niche dog breeds for a non-human example.

This explains the British upper class :-)

>> Over thousands of years various people/groups kept moving around and
>> moving around and screwing anything interesting they encountered.
>>
>> So, is 'nation' more a CULTURAL THING instead ?
>
> Absolutely yes. People group themselves in all sorts of ways: shared
> language, shared religion, shared territory, shared enemy, shared
> preferred computing platform. Pretty much anything you can think of.
>
>> 'Culture' seems more resilient - genes rather
>> secondary.
>>
>> As for the Basques ... ONLY a 'Y' replacement seems
>> very odd .....
>
> It’s not hard to imagine models that produce the result observed.
> e.g. suppose (1) R1b-M269 social structures led to a surplus of males
> (2) that they married ‘out’ into the Iberian neolithic population
> (3) they bring their technogical innovations (presumably, nomadic
> pastoralism) with them, leading to greater long-term success
> (4) as, initially, a relative minority they adopt the local language
> (Proto-Proto-Basque or whatever) rather than bringing an IE dialect with
> them as seen elsewhere in Europe.
>
> Not saying that’s what happened, other models are possible and reality
> is usually more complex than anything you could put in a single
> paragraph, just that it’s not hard to imagine ways that it could happen.

Ummmm ... STILL hard to imagine JUST the 'Y'. Should have
contributed 50% of the entire genome to the kiddies.

As for the "WAY to weird to be sure what was going on"
factor in post-glacial Europe ... THAT I'm totally
down with.

>> We were still speculating about 'Cheddar Man'. For awhile they figured
>> African/N.African mostly based on the length/size/profile of
>> bones. What LITTLE DNA they could get suggests a migrant from western
>> Europe, but it was a small sample. There's also question about WHAT
>> "western euro" actually MEANT, genetically, at the exact timeframe.
>
> I don’t think there’s any evidence that he was a migrant at all. His
> genetics seem to be comparable to older remains from Britain and
> Ireland.

The poor old guy has spent a long time being what
various entities WANTED him to be for political
reasons. MAY still be ... give it another 25 years
and more testing :-)

Remember what they did to the Neanderthals in
the 1800s :

https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/correze-man-neanderthal-reconstructed-illustrated-london-news-ltdmar.jpg

NOW they're depicted pretty much like someone you'd
see along the roadside in a Slavic farm community.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/9673/production/_127151583_gettyimages-1235088802.jpg

https://cdn.sci.news/images/enlarge11/image_12376e-Neanderthal.jpg

I expect BOTH depictions are biased.

Likely they DO live on in a corrupted cultural context,
as the stories of 'trolls' and 'ogres'.

Saw something recently, tracking-back of some genes,
that suggests the body hair went away possibly as
far back as 'Lucy' and friends. YET the depictions
always still show shaggy Wookies ...

Looks like most of the dinos had colorful 'pin-feathers'
too, not grey-green 'reptile skin'. It will take the
IMAGE of them 50-100 years to catch up with the research.

Oh - good one ! This is supposedly a "Neanderthal Museum"
in Germany :

https://img.freepik.com/premium-photo/22-july-2022-neanderthal-museum-germany-detailed-wax-figure-neanderthal-prehistoric-caveman-with-spear-museum-human-sapiens-anthropology-science-theory-evolution_984126-1453.jpg?w=1800

Tall, skinny, long legs, very 'black', very "African" ... while
we've long long known that lighter skin was inherited from the
Neanderthals - who were stocky, robust, barrel-chested and had
kinda short legs just from the skeletons :-)

The humans who met them didn't look like those wax
figures either.

Whose 'science' is going on HERE ?

While LABELED as 'Neanderthal' it MIGHT actually be
a depiction of Erectus instead ... but, aside from
skeletal bits, we have LITTLE idea what HE actually
looked like. Coulda looked more like Brit royals ....

On 12/21/24 3:53 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 21/12/2024 06:51, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> Trains are kinda 'yesterday tech' ... and now the profit
>>    margins are negligible. Don't expect 'luxury' unless YOU
>>    are willing to pay for it and the transport co gets enough
>>    high-paying passengers to justify. If ENOUGH then then Hell
>>    Yes they will hire gourmet chefs and such and put in
>>    comfy seats.
>
> They may be tomorrows tech too, if fossil fuel prices rise high enough.
> Its all in the and cost-benefit analysis on riad building and cost of
> fuel versus cost of rail plus overhead lines and cheap nuclear power.
>
> Electric cars for long distances? Dont make me laugh..

"Your travel permit please ? ..."

Soviet era especially, you had to get permission to
travel very far. This has considerable political and
propaganda benefits for dictatorial types. People
don't know/see anything outside their local area by
and large - so you can MAKE UP any 'truths' needed.

>>    Otherwise it's the 10-day-old plastic-wrapped sandwich.
>>
>>    It's a pity zeppelins proved so impractical - THOSE had
>>    a 'romance' and you COULD go for 'luxury'. Cruise ships
>>    are a step up, but maybe only one step.
>>
> Nuclear powered luxury liners are a definite possibility.

Oh, they can be MADE, no question. There was even much
talk of nuke mega-cargo ships. However safely dealing
with the reactors is the big thing. You need a team
of very well educated experts lest Very Bad Things
happen. So, while "possible", not "practical" for
non-govt entities.

>>    Anyway, for now, expect all transportation to be Just
>>    Another Uber. We will have to wait for Musk to build
>>    a luxury Earth/Mars travel line.
>
> Whatever :-)

"The Phobos Express" ! :-)

Wow, we REALLY need something better than Newtonian
propulsion ..... not even 100 years of decent rockets
and the engines are already very disappointing.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 22:04:59 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Whose 'science' is going on HERE ?

The problem of living a relatively long life is you've seen science change
too many times. It hasn't made any practical difference in my life but I
hit the era where conventional current flow was being replaced with
electron flow in some circles and some were jiggering Fleming's little
visual aid. I'm left handed which tends to lead to confusion anyway (right
mouse button?) and that was the last thing I needed.

As far as the squishier sciences I've visited places like National Park
historic sites and when visiting at a later time have noticed the signage
has been replaced with a new Just So story.

In a discussion with a IRL friend last week I remarked that when I was
taught history in grade and high school we knew Vortigern invited Horsa
and Hengist over to fight off the Picts. Between the linguists,
archaeologists and geneticists I don't even know what the current revealed
truth is other than some agreement that Gildas made shit up and Bede
expanded on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glendive_Dinosaur_and_Fossil_Museum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_the_Rockies

The Museum of the Rockies does its share of guessing but I'm more inclined
to believe their tales than thinking that humans were riding dinosaurs
6000 years ago.

On 12/21/24 6:17 AM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> On 12/20/24 4:40 AM, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 19:03:59 +0100, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024, Rich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I have contemplated ditching planes for trains, but I don't think
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> result would be much better.  Perhaps less security theater?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here in the US, what little "train service" we have has zero security
>>>>>> theater.  You arrive, walk in with your luggage rolling behind
>>>>>> you, and
>>>>>> no one checks you over, pats you down, feels you up, or otherwise
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> anything "security check" wise.  You show your ticket at the counter
>>>>>> (to prove you purchased a ticket), go sit and wait, walk out to the
>>>>>> train with your luggage when it is time, and climb aboard.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is very promising! I imagine they have a very beautiful
>>>>> restaurant
>>>>> where you can enjoy a glass of champagne, and perhaps a delicious 3
>>>>> course meal as well? =D
>>>>>
>>>>> Or maybe it is the swedish version, where you get to enjoy an old,
>>>>> plastic wrapped sandwich? ;)
>>>>
>>>> If you're very, very lucky. There is a group in Indiana that had
>>>> restored
>>>> an old steam engine and takes it out for a spin every now and then for
>>>> fund raisers They also have period cars and volunteers do serve
>>>> beverages
>>>> and meals. As a bonus the destination was Peru IN and the Circus
>>>> Hall of
>>>> Fame.
>>>>
>>>> A couple of times I took Amtrak from Ft. Wayne to Chicago. It was a
>>>> difference experience. Amtrak on the Boston to DC corridor gets a
>>>> lot of
>>>> love; other areas not so much.
>>>
>>> There was a train between Stockholm and Gothenburg that focused on
>>> the "luxury" niche.
>>>
>>> https://www.blataget.com/en/history/
>>>
>>> The web site is super crappy, and hardly any photos (why??) but you
>>> can kind of see the interior which looks alright and the food as
>>> well. Sadly I do not think they ru nany longer. =(
>>>
>>> I love the fact that the phone nr on the web site goes to someones
>>> regular cellphone and not to a company switch board.
>>
>>
>>  Trains are kinda 'yesterday tech' ... and now the profit
>>  margins are negligible. Don't expect 'luxury' unless YOU
>>  are willing to pay for it and the transport co gets enough
>>  high-paying passengers to justify. If ENOUGH then then Hell
>>  Yes they will hire gourmet chefs and such and put in
>>  comfy seats.
>>
>>  Otherwise it's the 10-day-old plastic-wrapped sandwich.
>
> This is the (sad) truth!
>
>>  It's a pity zeppelins proved so impractical - THOSE had
>>  a 'romance' and you COULD go for 'luxury'. Cruise ships
>>  are a step up, but maybe only one step.
>
> I have on my to do list to start a zeppelin airline between europe and
> new york. I just need to utilize synchronicity to bump into Richard
> Branson or other billionaire of choice first, and then we're off! =D

Oh, I'm sure it will happen ... 'visionaries' are
magnetically attracted to each other ! :-)

I wonder if different materials might make zeps safer ?
Graphite rods, carbon-fiber supports, something that'll
give more under stress than simple rigid aluminum ?
Could go 'meta' ... INFLATABLE, ADAPTIVE, extra supports
you can work pneumatically or whatever. Then the thing
is more like a dolphin or whale, dynamically adaptable
to stresses in the short timescale.

>>  Anyway, for now, expect all transportation to be Just
>>  Another Uber. We will have to wait for Musk to build
>>  a luxury Earth/Mars travel line.
>
> I'm following the career of Musk with great interest! I wonder if he
> will be the first trillionaire? I also wonder if he will eventually burn
> out or if something will happen to him since he's achieved so much in
> such a short time.

Like many with ultra IQ, he's a bit, umm, skittish.
SO far he's holding up, but TOMORROW, well, who knows ?

Some of these guys go off the deep end abruptly. I've
only met ONE guy with about a 200 IQ who also had a
solid personality. If you've seen US television, there
are a lot of 'Sheldons' and only a few 'Paiges'.

ANYWAY ... I have some doubts about him getting to Mars
in any useful way - but his giant rocket CAN transport
LOTS of stuff into orbit or to the moon.

On 12/21/24 4:33 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 21/12/2024 21:29, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 12:17:41 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> I'm following the career of Musk with great interest! I wonder if he
>>> will be the first trillionaire? I also wonder if he will eventually burn
>>> out or if something will happen to him since he's achieved so much in
>>> such a short time.
>>
>> I'm not nominating Musk but I do believe the out of fashion Great Man
>> theory. With the mediocrity of the political class you get nothing but
>> mediocrity, or equity as they style in.
>
> If you can be fired for making a wrong decision you will never make the
> right one

As Machiavelli noted as being the reason Roman commanders
were not penalized for losing battles. Safe, they could
be BOLD.

And now you know where 'golden parachutes' came from.

Consult 'Discourses'.

On 12/22/24 12:46 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 22:04:59 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> Whose 'science' is going on HERE ?
>
> The problem of living a relatively long life is you've seen science change
> too many times. It hasn't made any practical difference in my life but I
> hit the era where conventional current flow was being replaced with
> electron flow in some circles and some were jiggering Fleming's little
> visual aid. I'm left handed which tends to lead to confusion anyway (right
> mouse button?) and that was the last thing I needed.
>
> As far as the squishier sciences I've visited places like National Park
> historic sites and when visiting at a later time have noticed the signage
> has been replaced with a new Just So story.
>
> In a discussion with a IRL friend last week I remarked that when I was
> taught history in grade and high school we knew Vortigern invited Horsa
> and Hengist over to fight off the Picts. Between the linguists,
> archaeologists and geneticists I don't even know what the current revealed
> truth is other than some agreement that Gildas made shit up and Bede
> expanded on it.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glendive_Dinosaur_and_Fossil_Museum
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_the_Rockies

Everybody goes whole-hawg with the data they HAVE, or
at least the favored way of SEEING it. They will stick
with that religiously until they just HAVE to change.

> The Museum of the Rockies does its share of guessing but I'm more inclined
> to believe their tales than thinking that humans were riding dinosaurs
> 6000 years ago.

Those poor people ... caught between an ever-growing
mountain of facts/evidence and equally-persuasive
*belief* (which requires no facts). They TRY to find
ways to splice it all together. It doesn't work well ...

Somewhere, their little gears are gonna just seize-up.

In the news a few days ago - some ardent 'flat earther'
guy (apparently a True Believer) paid big $$$ to go to
the south pole in order to test his theories about a
geometrically suspect 'disk shaped' earth where the
north and south pole were kind of the same thing.

It didn't work out for him. However he didn't QUITE
admit defeat ...

Sad bit is that the Greeks had it all figured out
by around 500bc ... with surprising accuracy ...
using naught but pointed sticks, a few bits of
string and some basic geometry.