On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 14/12/2024 10:36, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I think by 2030 at least three  possibly four reactor designs will be out
>>> there working commercially across Europe and SE aAsia and probably Africa
>>> too.
>>
>> Would be excellent! As long as someone takes the first step, usually the
>> rest will follow. =)
>
> About 12 years ago I wrote a paper detailing why I thought renewable energy
> would never work except as an add on. Because in every case the nuclear power
> option was cheaper *overall* and less environmentally destructive.
>
> It had nothing to say about climate change. I was merely looking at a future
> beyond fossil fuels...
>
> But the moment I put it on line, using a name I had never used before in the
> Internet, and put a link to it, I discovered that I was already 'a well known
> climate denier' ...'in the pay of big Oil'!!
>
> At that point I started to look closer into climate change to see why an
> independent retired engineer writing about energy should arouse such a false
> response.

Really? How come you were already known as a "climate denier"? Was that
without your knowledge? Have you written a lot of articles or published
academical papers?

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:20:58 +0100, D wrote:

> Sounds like a good man! You should keep him!

I don't think it was 'What Color is your Parachute' but there was a book
from the '70s that had a punchline like 'How to hire an employer.' It's a
worthwhile way to think. They're not hiring you, you're finding
corporation that will provide a sales force, accountants, and all that
business cruft while you happily write code.

Many people dream of having their own business. Been there, done that, and
found the business part very tedious.

On 14/12/2024 18:11, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>

>>
>> About 12 years ago I wrote a paper detailing why I thought renewable
>> energy would never work except as an add on. Because in every case the
>> nuclear power option was cheaper *overall* and less environmentally
>> destructive.
>>
>> It had nothing to say about climate change. I was merely looking at a
>> future beyond fossil fuels...
>>
>> But the moment I put it on line, using a name I had never used before
>> in the Internet, and put a link to it, I discovered that I was already
>> 'a well known climate denier' ...'in the pay of big Oil'!!
>>
>> At that point I started to look closer into climate change to see why
>> an independent retired engineer writing about energy should arouse
>> such a false response.
>
> Really? How come you were already known as a "climate denier"?

The fact was that I wasn't known at all, but my paper against renewable
energy was seen by some zealot as contrary to the One True Message of
Good People.

So he dissed me by calling me out as a climate denier, which at that
time I absolutely was not.

But the fact that my paper scared him enough to do that raised deep
suspicions that if that is the only way to propagate climate alarmism,
there was something very dubious about it altogether.

James Delingpole - a art student but with a brain, came to the same
conclusion for the same reasons. He called them, watermelons. Green on
the outside and red on the inside.

Look at the wikipedia article on him which is a near identical piece of
'cancellation' by a green Marxist author.

Political ideologues, not scientists or neutral commentators.

Everybody who expressed even the slightest doubt that 'Climate Science'
and 'renewable energy' was 100% right was a 'climate denier' and
shouldn't be listened to and should be cancelled.

> Was that without your knowledge?

Yup.

> Have you written a lot of articles or published
> academical papers?

Nope. I wrote that as a way to encapsulate a process of discovery about
renewable energy. That I thought might be helpful for others to read. It
was the very first thing that had my real name on it on the internet.

I didn't even publicise it as my own, as I always post under 'noms de
blog' on the Internet. I referred to it as 'something that might be of
interest'.

Instantly the GreenTrolls were in there making sure that the Faithful
needn't read it as I was this 'well known climate denier'. And IIRC 'in
the pay of Big Oil' ...If only ....

But the general message of 'if you want to decarbonise electricity,
then its cheaper and more effective to build nukes and forget windmills
and solar panels, and here is why' hit some nerve.

I recognised it all from people I knew in the 1960s and 1970s who were
communists. The same technique of social isolation and calling out
people who disagreed with the message they wanted to have put over.
AgitProp and emotional arguments. No pragmatism. All idealism.

--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:14:56 +0100, D wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 11:08:02 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> Are there any techniques to resupply a sub completely under water?
>>> Would be fascinating if it could be managed and resupplied kind of
>>> like a space station with rotating crews and all, being sent in
>>> smaller submarines docking at the big one.
>>
>> https://www.sandboxx.us/news/how-do-americas-nuclear-submarines-get-
>> resupplied-at-sea/
>>
>> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/resupply-navy-nuclear-submarine
>>
>> If there is some way to resupply while submerged they aren't talking
>> about it.
>>
>>
> Probably top secret!

Without a doubt. My friend who served on a nuke didn't talk much about the
mission. While they frequently wound up in Holy Loch they also went into
other ports like Norfolk. You can't really keep a u-boat coming into port
a secret but they certainly didn't want anyone setting their watch by the
return of the USS Baitfish every three months.

At least we owe GPS to the nukes to some extent. If you're going to launch
a ballistic missile you have to know where you are. Some things you can't
keep secret:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_Transmitter_Cutler

We sailed past about 2 miles off shore and the rumble of what I assume
were the generators sounded like you were going to be run over by a
lobster boat any moment. (lobstermen favor very large engines with minimal
exhaust systems). Of course it's on the nautical charts as a prominent
landmark.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:43:56 +0100, D wrote:

> Ahh... so they can take the children away and bring them up as perfects
> servants of the state. Make sense. =(

They may sometimes do beneficial work but Child Protective Services
strikes fear in many parents. A couple of weeks ago there was an article
about parents being charged because the 10 year old decided to walk to
town. At that age nobody thought anything of me hiking down to the hobby
store to see if they had any new models.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 16:22:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

>> rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> Note to self: you really need to throw that crap out. This ain't the
>>> Internet Archives.
>>
>> Still I hate doing it ... I did get rid of all my HP related manuals
>> when I decided the 9000/800-F10 didn't deserve houseroom, but I still
>> have grey and orange walls in the loft.
>
> I bought a sheed-fed scanner (Brother ADS-2700W) and got rid of my black
> Univac wall a while ago. It's all on Bitsavers now.

What do you do? Saw the spine off the manuals?

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:03:18 +0100, D wrote:

> I'm not a christian, but those spontaneous outbursts are very funny! If
> someone would force me to a service, I think I would enjoy my outbursts!
> I've been to a few catholic services throughout my life, but I don't
> think it was anything to write home about. In one, I think it was the
> wedding of my wifes friend, the priest wanted everyone to kneel, but I
> don't do that. So my wife was very angry with me when I remained
> sitting. Kind of reminds me of during corona, when I was the only one
> walking around a shopping center without a mask.

I drifted away around the time of Vatican II so I don't know much about
the current situation. Events like weddings and funerals are a little
different but in my day the Mass was said in Latin. Many had missals so
they could follow along but it was scripted and the same worldwide. There
were a few responses but you didn't freelance. High Masses were more
ornate but the usual Mass did not incorporate singing. Even for the high
Mass the choir sang and singing along was not encouraged.

The doctrine was just as tight. The Cathechism of the Catholic Church says
'this we believe, this we don't believe, and for this you can make up your
own mind' with footnotes and references.

I didn't prepare me for the chaos of Protestantism, particularly the
touchy-feely personal lord and savior stuff. Also the Protestants take a
Taliban like approach to art and most of their churches look like bus
stations.

On 14/12/2024 18:56, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:20:58 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Sounds like a good man! You should keep him!
>
> I don't think it was 'What Color is your Parachute' but there was a book
> from the '70s that had a punchline like 'How to hire an employer.' It's a
> worthwhile way to think. They're not hiring you, you're finding
> corporation that will provide a sales force, accountants, and all that
> business cruft while you happily write code.
>
> Many people dream of having their own business. Been there, done that, and
> found the business part very tedious.

Yes and no. I quite enjoyed doing cost benefit analysis. I hated dealing
with people.
I only ever managed to fire one person after all his colleagues begged
me to do it.

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 14/12/2024 19:13, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:43:56 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Ahh... so they can take the children away and bring them up as perfects
>> servants of the state. Make sense. =(
>
> They may sometimes do beneficial work but Child Protective Services
> strikes fear in many parents. A couple of weeks ago there was an article
> about parents being charged because the 10 year old decided to walk to
> town. At that age nobody thought anything of me hiking down to the hobby
> store to see if they had any new models.

In the UK we have two incidents.

And attempt was made to remove a child from a Romanian family by social
services. The community rioted to stop them.

In another case a Pakistani girl was beaten to death by her father while
her family stood by and watched. Social services knew what was going on,
but forbore to 'increase racial tension' by imposing western standards
of behaviour on a deeply traditional Pakistani family.

--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy

On 14/12/2024 19:47, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:03:18 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I'm not a christian, but those spontaneous outbursts are very funny! If
>> someone would force me to a service, I think I would enjoy my outbursts!
>> I've been to a few catholic services throughout my life, but I don't
>> think it was anything to write home about. In one, I think it was the
>> wedding of my wifes friend, the priest wanted everyone to kneel, but I
>> don't do that. So my wife was very angry with me when I remained
>> sitting. Kind of reminds me of during corona, when I was the only one
>> walking around a shopping center without a mask.
>
> I drifted away around the time of Vatican II so I don't know much about
> the current situation. Events like weddings and funerals are a little
> different but in my day the Mass was said in Latin. Many had missals so
> they could follow along but it was scripted and the same worldwide. There
> were a few responses but you didn't freelance. High Masses were more
> ornate but the usual Mass did not incorporate singing. Even for the high
> Mass the choir sang and singing along was not encouraged.
>
> The doctrine was just as tight. The Cathechism of the Catholic Church says
> 'this we believe, this we don't believe, and for this you can make up your
> own mind' with footnotes and references.
>
> I didn't prepare me for the chaos of Protestantism, particularly the
> touchy-feely personal lord and savior stuff. Also the Protestants take a
> Taliban like approach to art and most of their churches look like bus
> stations.
>
Its not good to see protestantism stripped of its mysticism and turned
into a kindergarten morality play.

The point about the Christian story is not that it is real, but that we
profoundly might wish it had been, and if we pretend that it was, then
the world becomes at some levels a better place.

--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:20:58 +0100, D wrote:
>> Sounds like a good man! You should keep him!

On 2024-12-14, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> I don't think it was 'What Color is your Parachute' but there was a book
> from the '70s that had a punchline like 'How to hire an employer.' It's a
> worthwhile way to think. They're not hiring you, you're finding
> corporation that will provide a sales force, accountants, and all that
> business cruft while you happily write code.
>
> Many people dream of having their own business. Been there, done that, and
> found the business part very tedious.

As I young engineer, I was puzzled at how little interest the "hot" code
writer had in the slightly bigger picture. They would be happy to fix
bugs, but refused to participate in the ECO procedures to release the
product updates. I spent some time in customer support, and got an
appreciation for what customers needed, distinct from what the
programmers would like to tweak. I connected with some of the people
running the ERP systems and learning their report generator programs, so
that I could do a roll-up of the BOMs affected by a changed part, and of
the recent ECOs that affected an assembly that came in for repair.

Later, when my former boss and I started a company, he took on
marketing, while I did book-keeping. We were both engineers: He was an
RF guy, while I was a systems programmer, but in a small business, each
job is 3-4 part-time jobs adding up to full time. And it makes for a
diversity within the jobs that I find is good for me.

On 2024-12-14, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 16:22:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>>> rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Note to self: you really need to throw that crap out. This ain't the
>>>> Internet Archives.
>>>
>>> Still I hate doing it ... I did get rid of all my HP related manuals
>>> when I decided the 9000/800-F10 didn't deserve houseroom, but I still
>>> have grey and orange walls in the loft.
>>
>> I bought a sheed-fed scanner (Brother ADS-2700W) and got rid of my black
>> Univac wall a while ago. It's all on Bitsavers now.
>
> What do you do? Saw the spine off the manuals?

Most of them were in big 3-ring binders. There weren't that many
perfect-bound books and I had them guillotined at the local Staples.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:20:58 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Sounds like a good man! You should keep him!
>
> I don't think it was 'What Color is your Parachute' but there was a book
> from the '70s that had a punchline like 'How to hire an employer.' It's a
> worthwhile way to think. They're not hiring you, you're finding
> corporation that will provide a sales force, accountants, and all that
> business cruft while you happily write code.
>
> Many people dream of having their own business. Been there, done that, and
> found the business part very tedious.
>

This is a very powerful mindset I've had my entire working life. I think
more people who are employed, should think of themselves as one man
entrepreurs, as you say, you are the one with value, and shop around as
you would if you ran your own business.

As for having my own business, yes, the accounting is tedious, but I pay
about 400 EUR per month to get that done for me.

This is also something I tell everyone who wants to start their own
business. For the love of god, outsource all accounting as quickly as
possible.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 14/12/2024 18:11, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>
>>>
>>> About 12 years ago I wrote a paper detailing why I thought renewable
>>> energy would never work except as an add on. Because in every case the
>>> nuclear power option was cheaper *overall* and less environmentally
>>> destructive.
>>>
>>> It had nothing to say about climate change. I was merely looking at a
>>> future beyond fossil fuels...
>>>
>>> But the moment I put it on line, using a name I had never used before in
>>> the Internet, and put a link to it, I discovered that I was already 'a
>>> well known climate denier' ...'in the pay of big Oil'!!
>>>
>>> At that point I started to look closer into climate change to see why an
>>> independent retired engineer writing about energy should arouse such a
>>> false response.
>>
>> Really? How come you were already known as a "climate denier"?
>
> The fact was that I wasn't known at all, but my paper against renewable
> energy was seen by some zealot as contrary to the One True Message of Good
> People.
>
> So he dissed me by calling me out as a climate denier, which at that time I
> absolutely was not.

I always find it interesting, that the cheap rhetorical device of
connecting someone with holocaust deniers, passes unnoticed through even
the most major and established media houses.

I tried to complain to my mainstream swedish newspaper, and usually they
say that they only "quote", but they feel the label is justified due to
the seriousness of the situation. Needless to say, I completely disagree.

As for global warming, to me it seems pretty obvious that it has been a
scam all along. Just look at the business, the millionaires, how it is
using to control people, and decrease freedoms, and of course, the
cancelations and silence of opposition.

Kind of like then christianity was going strong. Same mechanisms, just a
new religion.

And then there's of course the angle... even _if_ it is true, it is way
cheaper and more efficient, to adapt, build nuclear powerplants, use AC or
radiators etc. than to believe that we can change the global weather
system.

The human race has adapted since forever, and with todays technology, we
are better equipped than ever to do that.

Does anyone talk about it? No. The only thing we hear is taxes and giving
up freedom.

That's why it stinks so bad, since no one is interested in easy and
efficient solutions.

> But the fact that my paper scared him enough to do that raised deep
> suspicions that if that is the only way to propagate climate alarmism, there
> was something very dubious about it altogether.
>
> James Delingpole - a art student but with a brain, came to the same
> conclusion for the same reasons. He called them, watermelons. Green on the
> outside and red on the inside.

Ahh... so that's where it comse from. I've heard the quote in swedish, now
I know where it came from.

> Look at the wikipedia article on him which is a near identical piece of
> 'cancellation' by a green Marxist author.
>
>
> Political ideologues, not scientists or neutral commentators.
>
>
> Everybody who expressed even the slightest doubt that 'Climate Science' and
> 'renewable energy' was 100% right was a 'climate denier' and shouldn't be
> listened to and should be cancelled.
>
>> Was that without your knowledge?
>
> Yup.
>
>> Have you written a lot of articles or published academical papers?
>
> Nope. I wrote that as a way to encapsulate a process of discovery about
> renewable energy. That I thought might be helpful for others to read. It was
> the very first thing that had my real name on it on the internet.

You're a brave man! I would never dare to speak openly about some things
in sweden. That would have disastrous consequences, and depending on what
I say, not only will there be cancellation and negative business effects,
I could even get fines or prison.

> I didn't even publicise it as my own, as I always post under 'noms de blog'
> on the Internet. I referred to it as 'something that might be of interest'.
>
> Instantly the GreenTrolls were in there making sure that the Faithful needn't
> read it as I was this 'well known climate denier'. And IIRC 'in the pay of
> Big Oil' ...If only ....
>
>
> But the general message of 'if you want to decarbonise electricity, then its
> cheaper and more effective to build nukes and forget windmills and solar
> panels, and here is why' hit some nerve.

It is amazing to me that this should be news. That has been my opinion all
my life, and no arguments have managed to shift my opinion for many
decades.

My favourite thought experiment is how cheap nuclear would become if you
removed all taxes, and deregulated it. I think it would make quite a
difference.

> I recognised it all from people I knew in the 1960s and 1970s who were
> communists. The same technique of social isolation and calling out people
> who disagreed with the message they wanted to have put over. AgitProp and
> emotional arguments. No pragmatism. All idealism.
>
>
>
>

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:14:56 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 11:08:02 +0100, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are there any techniques to resupply a sub completely under water?
>>>> Would be fascinating if it could be managed and resupplied kind of
>>>> like a space station with rotating crews and all, being sent in
>>>> smaller submarines docking at the big one.
>>>
>>> https://www.sandboxx.us/news/how-do-americas-nuclear-submarines-get-
>>> resupplied-at-sea/
>>>
>>> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/resupply-navy-nuclear-submarine
>>>
>>> If there is some way to resupply while submerged they aren't talking
>>> about it.
>>>
>>>
>> Probably top secret!
>
> Without a doubt. My friend who served on a nuke didn't talk much about the
> mission. While they frequently wound up in Holy Loch they also went into
> other ports like Norfolk. You can't really keep a u-boat coming into port
> a secret but they certainly didn't want anyone setting their watch by the
> return of the USS Baitfish every three months.
>
> At least we owe GPS to the nukes to some extent. If you're going to launch
> a ballistic missile you have to know where you are. Some things you can't
> keep secret:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_Transmitter_Cutler
>
> We sailed past about 2 miles off shore and the rumble of what I assume
> were the generators sounded like you were going to be run over by a
> lobster boat any moment. (lobstermen favor very large engines with minimal
> exhaust systems). Of course it's on the nautical charts as a prominent
> landmark.

Fascinating! Thank you for sharing!

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:43:56 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Ahh... so they can take the children away and bring them up as perfects
>> servants of the state. Make sense. =(
>
> They may sometimes do beneficial work but Child Protective Services
> strikes fear in many parents. A couple of weeks ago there was an article
> about parents being charged because the 10 year old decided to walk to
> town. At that age nobody thought anything of me hiking down to the hobby
> store to see if they had any new models.
>

The world is strange. At that age, I did go to school myself. Either
walking, 15 minutes, or the bus, 5 minutes. Sometimes, accompanied by my
father if I started early, otherwise not.

Children today are over protected, and this is destroying an entire
generation. There are always exceptions, those are what give me hope, but
the vast majority are quite sad.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:03:18 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I'm not a christian, but those spontaneous outbursts are very funny! If
>> someone would force me to a service, I think I would enjoy my outbursts!
>> I've been to a few catholic services throughout my life, but I don't
>> think it was anything to write home about. In one, I think it was the
>> wedding of my wifes friend, the priest wanted everyone to kneel, but I
>> don't do that. So my wife was very angry with me when I remained
>> sitting. Kind of reminds me of during corona, when I was the only one
>> walking around a shopping center without a mask.
>
> I drifted away around the time of Vatican II so I don't know much about
> the current situation. Events like weddings and funerals are a little
> different but in my day the Mass was said in Latin. Many had missals so
> they could follow along but it was scripted and the same worldwide. There
> were a few responses but you didn't freelance. High Masses were more
> ornate but the usual Mass did not incorporate singing. Even for the high
> Mass the choir sang and singing along was not encouraged.
>
> The doctrine was just as tight. The Cathechism of the Catholic Church says
> 'this we believe, this we don't believe, and for this you can make up your
> own mind' with footnotes and references.

In the few protestant services I remember from my childhood (my mother was
religious, my father not) there was plenty of singing. Afterwars, there
would sometimes be coffee and cake.

> I didn't prepare me for the chaos of Protestantism, particularly the
> touchy-feely personal lord and savior stuff. Also the Protestants take a
> Taliban like approach to art and most of their churches look like bus
> stations.

Touché! Turning sweden into a protestant country was a great way for the
king to loot all the churches. He was quite pragmatic, the old king. ;)

But the idea is to direct you to the inner kingdom of heaven, and not to
trap you in decorations and external things. ;)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 14/12/2024 18:56, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:20:58 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds like a good man! You should keep him!
>>
>> I don't think it was 'What Color is your Parachute' but there was a book
>> from the '70s that had a punchline like 'How to hire an employer.' It's a
>> worthwhile way to think. They're not hiring you, you're finding
>> corporation that will provide a sales force, accountants, and all that
>> business cruft while you happily write code.
>>
>> Many people dream of having their own business. Been there, done that, and
>> found the business part very tedious.
>
> Yes and no. I quite enjoyed doing cost benefit analysis. I hated dealing with
> people.
> I only ever managed to fire one person after all his colleagues begged me to
> do it.

That's the golden combination I have in my own business. I sell, and my
partners do the work. They get to focus on technology, and not on selling,
and I do the talking, and enviously look at the great technical work they
are doing, dreaming of when I was 20 years younger and doing that myself.
;)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 14/12/2024 19:13, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:43:56 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> Ahh... so they can take the children away and bring them up as perfects
>>> servants of the state. Make sense. =(
>>
>> They may sometimes do beneficial work but Child Protective Services
>> strikes fear in many parents. A couple of weeks ago there was an article
>> about parents being charged because the 10 year old decided to walk to
>> town. At that age nobody thought anything of me hiking down to the hobby
>> store to see if they had any new models.
>
> In the UK we have two incidents.
>
> And attempt was made to remove a child from a Romanian family by social
> services. The community rioted to stop them.
>
> In another case a Pakistani girl was beaten to death by her father while her
> family stood by and watched. Social services knew what was going on, but
> forbore to 'increase racial tension' by imposing western standards of
> behaviour on a deeply traditional Pakistani family.

Ahh... that reminds me... there was an arabian meme going around some
months ago about swedish social services abducting arabian children from
families who enjoy beating children.

Naturally there was a lot of flag burning in arabian, and some cars where
burned in swedish ghettos, and the government quickly denied any wrong
doing.

Regardless of if it was true or false, I always find it hilarious that the
well integrated arabians of ghetto sweden start burning cars as soon as
they see something they don't like about swedish society.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 14/12/2024 19:47, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:03:18 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not a christian, but those spontaneous outbursts are very funny! If
>>> someone would force me to a service, I think I would enjoy my outbursts!
>>> I've been to a few catholic services throughout my life, but I don't
>>> think it was anything to write home about. In one, I think it was the
>>> wedding of my wifes friend, the priest wanted everyone to kneel, but I
>>> don't do that. So my wife was very angry with me when I remained
>>> sitting. Kind of reminds me of during corona, when I was the only one
>>> walking around a shopping center without a mask.
>>
>> I drifted away around the time of Vatican II so I don't know much about
>> the current situation. Events like weddings and funerals are a little
>> different but in my day the Mass was said in Latin. Many had missals so
>> they could follow along but it was scripted and the same worldwide. There
>> were a few responses but you didn't freelance. High Masses were more
>> ornate but the usual Mass did not incorporate singing. Even for the high
>> Mass the choir sang and singing along was not encouraged.
>>
>> The doctrine was just as tight. The Cathechism of the Catholic Church says
>> 'this we believe, this we don't believe, and for this you can make up your
>> own mind' with footnotes and references.
>>
>> I didn't prepare me for the chaos of Protestantism, particularly the
>> touchy-feely personal lord and savior stuff. Also the Protestants take a
>> Taliban like approach to art and most of their churches look like bus
>> stations.
>>
> Its not good to see protestantism stripped of its mysticism and turned into a
> kindergarten morality play.
>
> The point about the Christian story is not that it is real, but that we
> profoundly might wish it had been, and if we pretend that it was, then the
> world becomes at some levels a better place.

William James and pragmatism for the win! ;)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, Lars Poulsen wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:20:58 +0100, D wrote:
>>> Sounds like a good man! You should keep him!
>
> On 2024-12-14, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> I don't think it was 'What Color is your Parachute' but there was a book
>> from the '70s that had a punchline like 'How to hire an employer.' It's a
>> worthwhile way to think. They're not hiring you, you're finding
>> corporation that will provide a sales force, accountants, and all that
>> business cruft while you happily write code.
>>
>> Many people dream of having their own business. Been there, done that, and
>> found the business part very tedious.
>
> As I young engineer, I was puzzled at how little interest the "hot" code
> writer had in the slightly bigger picture. They would be happy to fix
> bugs, but refused to participate in the ECO procedures to release the
> product updates. I spent some time in customer support, and got an
> appreciation for what customers needed, distinct from what the
> programmers would like to tweak. I connected with some of the people
> running the ERP systems and learning their report generator programs, so
> that I could do a roll-up of the BOMs affected by a changed part, and of
> the recent ECOs that affected an assembly that came in for repair.
>
> Later, when my former boss and I started a company, he took on
> marketing, while I did book-keeping. We were both engineers: He was an
> RF guy, while I was a systems programmer, but in a small business, each
> job is 3-4 part-time jobs adding up to full time. And it makes for a
> diversity within the jobs that I find is good for me.
>

Did you grow it into a big business? How did the experience change from
the start to where you are now?

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:21:30 +0100, D wrote:

> In the few protestant services I remember from my childhood (my mother
> was religious, my father not) there was plenty of singing. Afterwars,
> there would sometimes be coffee and cake.

I don't recall ever going to church with my mother. The whole thing was
sprung on me at a late date. During Boy Scout Week they made a big deal
about going to church with your family and I asked the fatal question
'What's church?'

To complicate matters my mother had been divorced so my father
theoretically was excommunicated for marrying her. So they enrolled me in
the Catholic First Communion class and my father dutifully took me to
Mass. I would have thought it a raw deal to be dragged out of bed Sunday
morning while my mother read the papers so she started going to the Dutch
Reformed church. The communion class did not go well when the nun asked
me to recite on of the Ten Commandments and realized I didn't even know
there were Ten Commandments let alone knowing a specific one. 'You're a
little heathen!' She didn't know how right she was.

One summer they sent me to the Reformed summer bible school to keep me out
of trouble. That wasn't so bad since the Methodists had a beach and picnic
area that other churches could use.

The real difference was the Reformed were Calvinists and not much on fun.
They would have bake sales to raise money. Meanwhile on the other end of
town the Catholics were running Las Vegas Nights and Bingo. The priest was
into horses so there was an annual horse show that attracted many people
on the horse show circuit. The church also had a stable and a horse, Ace
of Spades.

In my extended family some were Catholics, some were Protestants, and the
kids tended to be baptized Catholic j.i.c. they might need to produce a
certificate later in life for a marriage etc. Those who were really
religious were treated gently, like a nice, but dim-witted cousin.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:18:36 +0100, D wrote:

> Children today are over protected, and this is destroying an entire
> generation. There are always exceptions, those are what give me hope,
> but the vast majority are quite sad.

I feel sorry when I see them being loaded into the backseat of a car in
their escape pods. My preferred location was standing on the passenger
side floor with my hands on the solid steel dash of the '51 Chevy so I
could see where we were going. The gray paint of the dash had two hand
prints where it had been worn down to the red primer. Probably red lead,
come to think of it.

If bicycle helmets existed I never saw one. Some kids didn't survive for
one reason or the other but life went on.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:16:57 +0100, D wrote:

> Fascinating! Thank you for sharing!

I never saw one but there were also ELF transmitters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_low_frequency

I think some of the frequencies are still in use but nobody is talking.
Imagine what it would be like if humans could directly perceive the sea of
electromagnetic radiation we live in.

One project I turned down was a botanist with a theory that trees
communicated via electromagnetic waves. The idea hasn't gone away.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-whispering-
trees-180968084/

There is evidence that EMFs do affect trees though.

https://ehtrust.org/electromagnetic-fields-impact-tree-plant-growth/

Sometimes for the better?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg14519600-500-forest-grows-tall-on-
radio-waves/

It reminds me of when RF heat sealers were introduced. The folklore
suggested that women working around them either became sterile or
amazingly fecund. Humans love their stories.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:15:52 +0100, D wrote:

> I always find it interesting, that the cheap rhetorical device of
> connecting someone with holocaust deniers, passes unnoticed through even
> the most major and established media houses.

All I will say about that is it took a while to develop the campaign.

The teacher introduced us to linoleum block printing in the 'art' class in
the late '50s. Swastikas were a popular motif among the male members.
Today we would all be marched off to re-education camp. Japs weren't
popular but the Germans had a certain mystique.