On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 20:01:38 -0000 (UTC), vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote
in <v3l7f2$3skbs$1@dont-email.me>:

> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 15:13:35 -0000 (UTC), RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
> wrote in <v3kmiv$3uh0e$2@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-02 6:09 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-02, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-02 2:27 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 07:50:28 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I apologize to everyone but you about what I just wrote. I am
>>>>>>> frustrated that even in 2024 and having done research into the
>>>>>>> right distribution for my needs, I am yet again disgusted by the
>>>>>>> result. I love everything about Linux but the result, yet again,
>>>>>>> is pure demoralization. To read this idiotic zealot's words and
>>>>>>> his delusion that any of those 1990s UNIX distributions were
>>>>>>> actually pretty simply add salt to the wound.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the very limited gamer distro that you tried to install?
>>>>>> You can always tell the pioneers by the arrows in their backs. I
>>>>>> regularly update Debian, Ubuntu, Lubuntu, and Fedora distros
>>>>>> without all that drama.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's Fedora with tweaks. If you point to it as being bad, you might
>>>>> as well point to Fedora at the same time.
>>>>
>>>> That makes no sense. You can't blame Fedora for tweaks that break it.
>>>
>>> The tweaks are specifically to make sure that anyone wanting to play
>>> games would be able to do so. It provides easy installation for things
>>> that will make Xbox One controllers work, help compatibility for Steam
>>> games, and the software which will help you access your gaming library
>>> from within Linux. Otherwise, it is just Fedora. It wasn't the tweaks
>>> that broke anything; it's Fedora that just committed suicide.
>>
>> It doesn't follow. Fedora works. Someone tweaks it and renames it as a
>> new distribution and it doesn't work for you. How do you blame Fedora
>> for that?
>> I'm guessing the choices made by the developers of this new
>> distribution worked for their machines, but not necessarily for your
>> machine.
>
> Fedora 40 review:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zsBxf48mdA

One thing I learned from the review: X11 is still an option.

Another thing I learned: real codecs require adding an extra external
repository.

--
-v

On 2024-06-03 7:03 p.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-03 2:46 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 07:44:26 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-06-02 6:36 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 15:56:21 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nobara Linux
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/174ldfz/
>>> is_nobara_any_good/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mixed reviews. Maybe Glorious Eggroll didn't have your machine in mind.
>>>>
>>>> I've tried a variety of machines with Linux and they've all more or less
>>>> ended up as a disaster. It's Linux, it's always Linux.
>>>
>>> Considering I've used Linux of different distros on a variety of machines
>>> for 25+ years with no disasters, I don't think it's an OS problem.
>>
>> Yep, we're all dumb clowns. It's never Linux's fault, I know.
>
> You're trying to run hardware intensive Windows games on Linux. There's
> going to be problems.

You're missing the point: I never even got to the point where I could
try to play the games. The distribution built for gamers which asked me
to use the software it bundles to log into my game library was unable to
even see the games I own. I couldn't install them because the software
acted as though I had never bought anything at all. This is a system
which wasn't modified in any way. I used it as is and it failed miserably.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 16:23:32 -0400, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote
in <bDp7O.1263$W2K4.896@fx38.iad>:

> On 2024-06-03 2:46 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 07:44:26 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-06-02 6:36 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 15:56:21 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nobara Linux
>>>>
>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/174ldfz/
>> is_nobara_any_good/
>>>>
>>>> Mixed reviews. Maybe Glorious Eggroll didn't have your machine in
>>>> mind.
>>>
>>> I've tried a variety of machines with Linux and they've all more or
>>> less ended up as a disaster. It's Linux, it's always Linux.
>>
>> Considering I've used Linux of different distros on a variety of
>> machines for 25+ years with no disasters, I don't think it's an OS
>> problem.
>
> Yep, we're all dumb clowns. It's never Linux's fault, I know.

If there are folks not having issues, what do you think the common
denominator with your issues is?

--
-v

On 6/3/2024 7:23 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> In
> most cases, they can't wait to be able to upgrade and use Windows or
> MacOS again.

Ask Creepy Ahlstrom what happened when he committed spousal abuse and
tried to make his wife run LibreOffice.

On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-06-03 7:01 p.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-03 11:13 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-02 6:09 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-02, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-06-02 2:27 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 07:50:28 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I apologize to everyone but you about what I just wrote. I am frustrated
>>>>>>>>> that even in 2024 and having done research into the right distribution
>>>>>>>>> for my needs, I am yet again disgusted by the result. I love everything
>>>>>>>>> about Linux but the result, yet again, is pure demoralization. To read
>>>>>>>>> this idiotic zealot's words and his delusion that any of those 1990s
>>>>>>>>> UNIX distributions were actually pretty simply add salt to the wound.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the very limited gamer distro that you tried to install? You can
>>>>>>>> always tell the pioneers by the arrows in their backs. I regularly update
>>>>>>>> Debian, Ubuntu, Lubuntu, and Fedora distros without all that drama.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's Fedora with tweaks. If you point to it as being bad, you might as
>>>>>>> well point to Fedora at the same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That makes no sense. You can't blame Fedora for tweaks that break it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The tweaks are specifically to make sure that anyone wanting to play
>>>>> games would be able to do so. It provides easy installation for things
>>>>> that will make Xbox One controllers work, help compatibility for Steam
>>>>> games, and the software which will help you access your gaming library
>>>>> from within Linux. Otherwise, it is just Fedora. It wasn't the tweaks
>>>>> that broke anything; it's Fedora that just committed suicide.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't follow. Fedora works. Someone tweaks it and renames it as a new
>>>> distribution and it doesn't work for you. How do you blame Fedora for that?
>>>> I'm guessing the choices made by the developers of this new distribution
>>>> worked for their machines, but not necessarily for your machine.
>>>
>>> Considering how often this happens and how using the original
>>> distribution ends up doing the same, I won't bother playing this game.
>>> Every time someone faces a problem, it's "not me" or "use this other
>>> distribution." Then, when people prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that
>>> whatever they are facing is definitely a bug in the distribution and not
>>> imaginary, everyone goes silent and definitely doesn't apologize. It's
>>> tiresome. The reason Windows and Mac are winning is because they're
>>> knights fighting a battle with a diseased peasant. It's a battle between
>>> elephants and a chihuahua that is unaware of its own size.
>>>
>>> I'm just so tired of this. Almost three decades later and nothing's changed.
>>
>> Windows and Mac are winning (on the desktop only) because of innertia. Most
>> people don't even know there is another choice. When they go to Best Buy
>> they see Windows and Mac OS.
>>
>> The Copilot Recall crap might make some users look elsewhere.
>
> Windows and Mac are winning because they are just as pretty as they are
> functional. Both are comprehensible, both are repairable and both have a
> humongous library of decent software and stellar hardware bundled with
> them. Linux is what I offer to people whose hardware can no longer run
> the mainstream operating systems well anymore. Most of the time, the
> people don't mind it but they don't become enamored with it either. In
> most cases, they can't wait to be able to upgrade and use Windows or
> MacOS again.

You're responding to someone who has been using Linux exclusively for
closing on 20 years. To me Windows and Mac OS are close to incomprehensible.
Or at least a pain the butt to use with directories that seem convoluted and
weird. The Windows Registry and updating procedure is just stupid bad. Linux
provides all the applications I need and, if I bought a brand new computer,
I would still use Linux. Especially now with Microsoft going whole hog into
AI crap.

It is an advantage, of course, that Linux will run on just about any machine
(including the newest ones). As for your use of it, you're kind of like I
was when I first experimented with Linux, over 20 years ago. I was trying to
make it work like Windows. So I would use it for a while and then go back to
Windows. It was only after I committed myself to learning and using Linux
(and only Linux) that I stuck with it long enough to really learn it. I've
appreciated it ever since and have zero desire to go ever go back to
Windows.

Of course I wasn't trying to play games on Linux — so that's a whole another
issue. Maybe I would have never gone to Linux if I was a game player. Who
knows.

As for your friends who like Windows or Mac when they can afford it instead
of Linux, obviously applications that only run on these OSes are important
to them. They're not important to me as I never liked bloated Microsoft crap
applications even when I did use Windows.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-06-03 7:03 p.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-03 2:46 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 07:44:26 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-06-02 6:36 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 15:56:21 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nobara Linux
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/174ldfz/
>>>> is_nobara_any_good/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mixed reviews. Maybe Glorious Eggroll didn't have your machine in mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried a variety of machines with Linux and they've all more or less
>>>>> ended up as a disaster. It's Linux, it's always Linux.
>>>>
>>>> Considering I've used Linux of different distros on a variety of machines
>>>> for 25+ years with no disasters, I don't think it's an OS problem.
>>>
>>> Yep, we're all dumb clowns. It's never Linux's fault, I know.
>>
>> You're trying to run hardware intensive Windows games on Linux. There's
>> going to be problems.
>
> You're missing the point: I never even got to the point where I could
> try to play the games. The distribution built for gamers which asked me
> to use the software it bundles to log into my game library was unable to
> even see the games I own. I couldn't install them because the software
> acted as though I had never bought anything at all. This is a system
> which wasn't modified in any way. I used it as is and it failed miserably.

Nobara looks very much like a "hobby" Linux release at this point. I never
heard of it until you brought it up. I don't know if it will eventually be a
success or not, but I'm guessing that it's definitely not mature (just a
little over a year old) and I'm also guessing that it doesn't have a large
user base. They probably need more testers who are willing to help fix its
teething problems.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On Tue, 4 Jun 2024 00:01:11 -0000 (UTC), RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
wrote in <v3llg7$3g9t$2@dont-email.me>:

> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-03 7:03 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-03 2:46 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 07:44:26 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-06-02 6:36 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 15:56:21 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nobara Linux
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/174ldfz/
>>>>> is_nobara_any_good/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mixed reviews. Maybe Glorious Eggroll didn't have your machine in
>>>>>>> mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've tried a variety of machines with Linux and they've all more or
>>>>>> less ended up as a disaster. It's Linux, it's always Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> Considering I've used Linux of different distros on a variety of
>>>>> machines for 25+ years with no disasters, I don't think it's an OS
>>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, we're all dumb clowns. It's never Linux's fault, I know.
>>>
>>> You're trying to run hardware intensive Windows games on Linux.
>>> There's going to be problems.
>>
>> You're missing the point: I never even got to the point where I could
>> try to play the games. The distribution built for gamers which asked me
>> to use the software it bundles to log into my game library was unable
>> to even see the games I own. I couldn't install them because the
>> software acted as though I had never bought anything at all. This is a
>> system which wasn't modified in any way. I used it as is and it failed
>> miserably.
>
> Nobara looks very much like a "hobby" Linux release at this point. I
> never heard of it until you brought it up. I don't know if it will
> eventually be a success or not, but I'm guessing that it's definitely
> not mature (just a little over a year old) and I'm also guessing that it
> doesn't have a large user base. They probably need more testers who are
> willing to help fix its teething problems.

https://nobaraproject.org/

It lists the patches and updates from Fedora right on
the home page. Looks like Nobara is to Fedora what Mint
is to Ubuntu.

GloriousEggroll is proper. They maintain an extra-special
build of proton for happy Linux gamers like myself.

It's intriguing. I also see a patch to fix logins with
NVIDIA GPU's.

--
-v

On 2024-06-03 7:29 p.m., vallor wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 16:23:32 -0400, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote
> in <bDp7O.1263$W2K4.896@fx38.iad>:
>
>> On 2024-06-03 2:46 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 07:44:26 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-06-02 6:36 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 15:56:21 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nobara Linux
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/174ldfz/
>>> is_nobara_any_good/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mixed reviews. Maybe Glorious Eggroll didn't have your machine in
>>>>> mind.
>>>>
>>>> I've tried a variety of machines with Linux and they've all more or
>>>> less ended up as a disaster. It's Linux, it's always Linux.
>>>
>>> Considering I've used Linux of different distros on a variety of
>>> machines for 25+ years with no disasters, I don't think it's an OS
>>> problem.
>>
>> Yep, we're all dumb clowns. It's never Linux's fault, I know.
>
> If there are folks not having issues, what do you think the common
> denominator with your issues is?

Yep, following exact instructions to do the things that I intend to do
with a Linux distribution makes me a moron. It only failed because I
farted while doing it or something. Perhaps I didn't type the commands
fast enough or didn't press Enter at the exact time the planets aligned.
It's not Linux, it's never Linux. Some thing or body else is always at
fault.

On 2024-06-03 7:39 p.m., DFS wrote:
> On 6/3/2024 7:23 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> In most cases, they can't wait to be able to upgrade and use Windows
>> or MacOS again.
>
>
> Ask Creepy Ahlstrom what happened when he committed spousal abuse and
> tried to make his wife run LibreOffice.

My wife doesn't mind LibreOffice on her home machine and refuses to even
spend the $30 or $40 necessary to buy a proper Microsoft Office 2021
license. However, this is because her work laptop already has it and she
uses that software exclusively when she intends to do something
grandiose as her work demands. She barely ever uses her home laptop and
therefore rarely touches LibreOffice. When she does, it's to do very
basic work.

On 2024-06-03 7:53 p.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-03 7:01 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-03 11:13 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-02 6:09 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-06-02, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-02 2:27 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 07:50:28 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I apologize to everyone but you about what I just wrote. I am frustrated
>>>>>>>>>> that even in 2024 and having done research into the right distribution
>>>>>>>>>> for my needs, I am yet again disgusted by the result. I love everything
>>>>>>>>>> about Linux but the result, yet again, is pure demoralization. To read
>>>>>>>>>> this idiotic zealot's words and his delusion that any of those 1990s
>>>>>>>>>> UNIX distributions were actually pretty simply add salt to the wound.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is the very limited gamer distro that you tried to install? You can
>>>>>>>>> always tell the pioneers by the arrows in their backs. I regularly update
>>>>>>>>> Debian, Ubuntu, Lubuntu, and Fedora distros without all that drama.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's Fedora with tweaks. If you point to it as being bad, you might as
>>>>>>>> well point to Fedora at the same time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That makes no sense. You can't blame Fedora for tweaks that break it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The tweaks are specifically to make sure that anyone wanting to play
>>>>>> games would be able to do so. It provides easy installation for things
>>>>>> that will make Xbox One controllers work, help compatibility for Steam
>>>>>> games, and the software which will help you access your gaming library
>>>>>> from within Linux. Otherwise, it is just Fedora. It wasn't the tweaks
>>>>>> that broke anything; it's Fedora that just committed suicide.
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't follow. Fedora works. Someone tweaks it and renames it as a new
>>>>> distribution and it doesn't work for you. How do you blame Fedora for that?
>>>>> I'm guessing the choices made by the developers of this new distribution
>>>>> worked for their machines, but not necessarily for your machine.
>>>>
>>>> Considering how often this happens and how using the original
>>>> distribution ends up doing the same, I won't bother playing this game.
>>>> Every time someone faces a problem, it's "not me" or "use this other
>>>> distribution." Then, when people prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that
>>>> whatever they are facing is definitely a bug in the distribution and not
>>>> imaginary, everyone goes silent and definitely doesn't apologize. It's
>>>> tiresome. The reason Windows and Mac are winning is because they're
>>>> knights fighting a battle with a diseased peasant. It's a battle between
>>>> elephants and a chihuahua that is unaware of its own size.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just so tired of this. Almost three decades later and nothing's changed.
>>>
>>> Windows and Mac are winning (on the desktop only) because of innertia. Most
>>> people don't even know there is another choice. When they go to Best Buy
>>> they see Windows and Mac OS.
>>>
>>> The Copilot Recall crap might make some users look elsewhere.
>>
>> Windows and Mac are winning because they are just as pretty as they are
>> functional. Both are comprehensible, both are repairable and both have a
>> humongous library of decent software and stellar hardware bundled with
>> them. Linux is what I offer to people whose hardware can no longer run
>> the mainstream operating systems well anymore. Most of the time, the
>> people don't mind it but they don't become enamored with it either. In
>> most cases, they can't wait to be able to upgrade and use Windows or
>> MacOS again.
>
> You're responding to someone who has been using Linux exclusively for
> closing on 20 years. To me Windows and Mac OS are close to incomprehensible.
> Or at least a pain the butt to use with directories that seem convoluted and
> weird. The Windows Registry and updating procedure is just stupid bad. Linux
> provides all the applications I need and, if I bought a brand new computer,
> I would still use Linux. Especially now with Microsoft going whole hog into
> AI crap.
>
> It is an advantage, of course, that Linux will run on just about any machine
> (including the newest ones). As for your use of it, you're kind of like I
> was when I first experimented with Linux, over 20 years ago. I was trying to
> make it work like Windows. So I would use it for a while and then go back to
> Windows. It was only after I committed myself to learning and using Linux
> (and only Linux) that I stuck with it long enough to really learn it. I've
> appreciated it ever since and have zero desire to go ever go back to
> Windows.
>
> Of course I wasn't trying to play games on Linux — so that's a whole another
> issue. Maybe I would have never gone to Linux if I was a game player. Who
> knows.
>
> As for your friends who like Windows or Mac when they can afford it instead
> of Linux, obviously applications that only run on these OSes are important
> to them. They're not important to me as I never liked bloated Microsoft crap
> applications even when I did use Windows.

Again, this particular Linux distribution failed before I even managed
to get to a point where I could install a game to test it out. It failed
to do what it was designed to do, even though the user followed the
instructions as they were presented in the distribution's welcome popup
window.

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 13:44:58 -0700 (Seattle), Relf wrote:

>> Stalin? FDR's pet?
>
> No one could stop "Stalin the Arsonist", not even FDR.

One person could have. Had the 'Allies' not supplied the USSR with
materiel, and ramped down the war in the west Stalin, if he survived,
would be working out of a tent someplace well east of the Urals.

Patton was relieved of his command by Eisenhower for publicly stating the
US had fought the wrong enemy and wanting to finish what Germany had
started.

rBowman: Patton was relieved of his command by Eisenhower for
publicly stating the US had fought the wrong enemy
and wanting to finish what Germany had started.

Agreeing with Nazi Germany isn't popular today, especially in Moscow;
better to pour gasoline on a George Floyd riot, like Biden does.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 20:42:36 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Yep, following exact instructions to do the things that I intend to do
> with a Linux distribution makes me a moron. It only failed because I
> farted while doing it or something. Perhaps I didn't type the commands
> fast enough or didn't press Enter at the exact time the planets aligned.
> It's not Linux, it's never Linux. Some thing or body else is always at
> fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UnPzp2lmNk

Why's everybody always picking on me?

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 11:11:19 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:

> Point being, the wintrolls knew very little of the pedigree of Unix
> workstations until they were schooled.

Abso-bloody-lutely.

On 2024-06-04, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-06-03 7:53 p.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-03 7:01 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-03 11:13 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-03, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-06-02 6:09 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-02, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-02 2:27 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 07:50:28 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I apologize to everyone but you about what I just wrote. I am frustrated
>>>>>>>>>>> that even in 2024 and having done research into the right distribution
>>>>>>>>>>> for my needs, I am yet again disgusted by the result. I love everything
>>>>>>>>>>> about Linux but the result, yet again, is pure demoralization. To read
>>>>>>>>>>> this idiotic zealot's words and his delusion that any of those 1990s
>>>>>>>>>>> UNIX distributions were actually pretty simply add salt to the wound.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is the very limited gamer distro that you tried to install? You can
>>>>>>>>>> always tell the pioneers by the arrows in their backs. I regularly update
>>>>>>>>>> Debian, Ubuntu, Lubuntu, and Fedora distros without all that drama.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's Fedora with tweaks. If you point to it as being bad, you might as
>>>>>>>>> well point to Fedora at the same time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That makes no sense. You can't blame Fedora for tweaks that break it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The tweaks are specifically to make sure that anyone wanting to play
>>>>>>> games would be able to do so. It provides easy installation for things
>>>>>>> that will make Xbox One controllers work, help compatibility for Steam
>>>>>>> games, and the software which will help you access your gaming library
>>>>>>> from within Linux. Otherwise, it is just Fedora. It wasn't the tweaks
>>>>>>> that broke anything; it's Fedora that just committed suicide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't follow. Fedora works. Someone tweaks it and renames it as a new
>>>>>> distribution and it doesn't work for you. How do you blame Fedora for that?
>>>>>> I'm guessing the choices made by the developers of this new distribution
>>>>>> worked for their machines, but not necessarily for your machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Considering how often this happens and how using the original
>>>>> distribution ends up doing the same, I won't bother playing this game.
>>>>> Every time someone faces a problem, it's "not me" or "use this other
>>>>> distribution." Then, when people prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that
>>>>> whatever they are facing is definitely a bug in the distribution and not
>>>>> imaginary, everyone goes silent and definitely doesn't apologize. It's
>>>>> tiresome. The reason Windows and Mac are winning is because they're
>>>>> knights fighting a battle with a diseased peasant. It's a battle between
>>>>> elephants and a chihuahua that is unaware of its own size.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just so tired of this. Almost three decades later and nothing's changed.
>>>>
>>>> Windows and Mac are winning (on the desktop only) because of innertia. Most
>>>> people don't even know there is another choice. When they go to Best Buy
>>>> they see Windows and Mac OS.
>>>>
>>>> The Copilot Recall crap might make some users look elsewhere.
>>>
>>> Windows and Mac are winning because they are just as pretty as they are
>>> functional. Both are comprehensible, both are repairable and both have a
>>> humongous library of decent software and stellar hardware bundled with
>>> them. Linux is what I offer to people whose hardware can no longer run
>>> the mainstream operating systems well anymore. Most of the time, the
>>> people don't mind it but they don't become enamored with it either. In
>>> most cases, they can't wait to be able to upgrade and use Windows or
>>> MacOS again.
>>
>> You're responding to someone who has been using Linux exclusively for
>> closing on 20 years. To me Windows and Mac OS are close to incomprehensible.
>> Or at least a pain the butt to use with directories that seem convoluted and
>> weird. The Windows Registry and updating procedure is just stupid bad. Linux
>> provides all the applications I need and, if I bought a brand new computer,
>> I would still use Linux. Especially now with Microsoft going whole hog into
>> AI crap.
>>
>> It is an advantage, of course, that Linux will run on just about any machine
>> (including the newest ones). As for your use of it, you're kind of like I
>> was when I first experimented with Linux, over 20 years ago. I was trying to
>> make it work like Windows. So I would use it for a while and then go back to
>> Windows. It was only after I committed myself to learning and using Linux
>> (and only Linux) that I stuck with it long enough to really learn it. I've
>> appreciated it ever since and have zero desire to go ever go back to
>> Windows.
>>
>> Of course I wasn't trying to play games on Linux — so that's a whole another
>> issue. Maybe I would have never gone to Linux if I was a game player. Who
>> knows.
>>
>> As for your friends who like Windows or Mac when they can afford it instead
>> of Linux, obviously applications that only run on these OSes are important
>> to them. They're not important to me as I never liked bloated Microsoft crap
>> applications even when I did use Windows.
>
> Again, this particular Linux distribution failed before I even managed
> to get to a point where I could install a game to test it out. It failed
> to do what it was designed to do, even though the user followed the
> instructions as they were presented in the distribution's welcome popup
> window.

I understand. But I know Fedora works. I have zero experience with Nobara.
Obviously there are issues with it.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-06-03 10:33 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 20:42:36 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> Yep, following exact instructions to do the things that I intend to do
>> with a Linux distribution makes me a moron. It only failed because I
>> farted while doing it or something. Perhaps I didn't type the commands
>> fast enough or didn't press Enter at the exact time the planets aligned.
>> It's not Linux, it's never Linux. Some thing or body else is always at
>> fault.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UnPzp2lmNk
>
> Why's everybody always picking on me?

I'm not even complaining, I'm used to this behaviour from the Linux
faithful. Whenever someone points out one of Linux's flaws or is soured
on using it because of the rotten experience it provides them, the lot
of you jump on anyone stating the obvious like flies on a turd. Any time
anyone shows Linux to be bad in one way or another, this is the only
response you can provide:

1) Not me, never!
2) You must have done it wrong!

And then, when it is shown that Linux is the problem beyond a shadow of
a doubt, and the person showing it is only looking for a bug to be fixed
or for some problem to be corrected, you all disappear. It's the same
thing here as it is on Linux forums on the web. Every so often, someone
will "help" by asking the person to execute some obscure command which
ends up doing nothing but making the problem worse.

But you're right. Facing serious problems on day _one_ is a lot better
than having to learn something awful like sfc /scannow or dism /online
/cleanup-image /scanhealth whenever problems emerge. Only in the perfect
world of Linux where commands like "tcpdump -A -s 10240 'tcp port 80 and
(((ip[2:2] - ((ip[0]&0xf)<<2)) - ((tcp[12]&0xf0)>>2)) != 0)' | egrep
--line-buffered "^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD )|^[A-Za-z0-9-]+: " |
sed -r 's/^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD )/\n\1/g'" are the norm can
anyone be happy.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2024 07:47:19 -0400, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote
in <k9D7O.36645$fBCb.27003@fx11.iad>:

> On 2024-06-03 10:33 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 20:42:36 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, following exact instructions to do the things that I intend to do
>>> with a Linux distribution makes me a moron. It only failed because I
>>> farted while doing it or something. Perhaps I didn't type the commands
>>> fast enough or didn't press Enter at the exact time the planets
>>> aligned.
>>> It's not Linux, it's never Linux. Some thing or body else is always at
>>> fault.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UnPzp2lmNk
>>
>> Why's everybody always picking on me?
>
> I'm not even complaining, I'm used to this behaviour from the Linux
> faithful. Whenever someone points out one of Linux's flaws or is soured
> on using it because of the rotten experience it provides them, the lot
> of you jump on anyone stating the obvious like flies on a turd. Any time
> anyone shows Linux to be bad in one way or another, this is the only
> response you can provide:
>
> 1) Not me, never!
> 2) You must have done it wrong!

1) You said you tried a new, virtually-untested distribution.
2) The distribution failed for you.
3) Now you want to lash-out and blame the most successful open source
project of all time.

No oddity there!

(BTW, I'm not pointing this out for your benefit, because you have your
closed mind made up -- it is for the edification of others.)

> And then, when it is shown that Linux is the problem beyond a shadow of
> a doubt, and the person showing it is only looking for a bug to be fixed
> or for some problem to be corrected, you all disappear. It's the same
> thing here as it is on Linux forums on the web. Every so often, someone
> will "help" by asking the person to execute some obscure command which
> ends up doing nothing but making the problem worse.

I looked at the web site for Nobara, and I see that it pulls in
kernel patches from all over. It is not "Fedora", it is _based_
on Fedora, much like Mint is _based_ on Ubuntu.

Why did it not occur to you that one of those patches might change the
Linux kernel's behavior from that of Fedora?

If you really have been using Linux "for almost 3 decades", haven't
you learned that trying out strange, new distros should be left to
people who aren't so prone to failure?

> But you're right. Facing serious problems on day _one_ is a lot better
> than having to learn something awful like sfc /scannow or dism /online
> /cleanup-image /scanhealth whenever problems emerge. Only in the perfect
> world of Linux where commands like "tcpdump -A -s 10240 'tcp port 80 and
> (((ip[2:2] - ((ip[0]&0xf)<<2)) - ((tcp[12]&0xf0)>>2)) != 0)' | egrep
> --line-buffered "^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD )|^[A-Za-z0-9-]+: " |
> sed -r 's/^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD )/\n\1/g'" are the norm can
> anyone be happy.

Way to muddy the waters. How often do you think people run a command
like that, and why would anyone consider that "the norm"?

And even though this is an advocacy group, often people here are willing
to help out. But ranting about how Linux people did you wrong, when
you haven't even fully described the symptoms, is counter-productive.

I seem to remember a problem you had recently with sound, when it ended
up being some kind of screw loose in your case. That's not the only
place there's a screw loose. Take your abuse and shove it.

--
-v

On Tue, 4 Jun 2024 06:58:08 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v3mdu0$arho$2@dont-email.me>:

> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 11:11:19 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:
>
>> Point being, the wintrolls knew very little of the pedigree of Unix
>> workstations until they were schooled.
>
> Abso-bloody-lutely.

I've come to the conclusion that the person who asked you for
the videos was never interested in the aesthetics of the workstation
desktops of yore -- nor have they acknowledged those desktops' role in
shaping the look-and-feel of Windows 95.

They seem to be a Windows concern troll having a bit of fun with us...

--
-v

On 2024-06-04 8:16 a.m., vallor wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2024 07:47:19 -0400, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote
> in <k9D7O.36645$fBCb.27003@fx11.iad>:
>
>> On 2024-06-03 10:33 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 20:42:36 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep, following exact instructions to do the things that I intend to do
>>>> with a Linux distribution makes me a moron. It only failed because I
>>>> farted while doing it or something. Perhaps I didn't type the commands
>>>> fast enough or didn't press Enter at the exact time the planets
>>>> aligned.
>>>> It's not Linux, it's never Linux. Some thing or body else is always at
>>>> fault.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UnPzp2lmNk
>>>
>>> Why's everybody always picking on me?
>>
>> I'm not even complaining, I'm used to this behaviour from the Linux
>> faithful. Whenever someone points out one of Linux's flaws or is soured
>> on using it because of the rotten experience it provides them, the lot
>> of you jump on anyone stating the obvious like flies on a turd. Any time
>> anyone shows Linux to be bad in one way or another, this is the only
>> response you can provide:
>>
>> 1) Not me, never!
>> 2) You must have done it wrong!
>
> 1) You said you tried a new, virtually-untested distribution.

Bullshit on the "virtually-untested" statement. It is a go-to
distribution for people looking to play games within Linux.

> 2) The distribution failed for you.

Fact.

> 3) Now you want to lash-out and blame the most successful open source
> project of all time.
>
> No oddity there!
>
> (BTW, I'm not pointing this out for your benefit, because you have your
> closed mind made up -- it is for the edification of others.)

It is but the latest of many distributions which have failed miserably
over the years.

>> And then, when it is shown that Linux is the problem beyond a shadow of
>> a doubt, and the person showing it is only looking for a bug to be fixed
>> or for some problem to be corrected, you all disappear. It's the same
>> thing here as it is on Linux forums on the web. Every so often, someone
>> will "help" by asking the person to execute some obscure command which
>> ends up doing nothing but making the problem worse.
>
> I looked at the web site for Nobara, and I see that it pulls in
> kernel patches from all over. It is not "Fedora", it is _based_
> on Fedora, much like Mint is _based_ on Ubuntu.
>
> Why did it not occur to you that one of those patches might change the
> Linux kernel's behavior from that of Fedora?

How would the Linux kernel misbehaving affect _Lutris_ which is the very
part which refuses to even acknowledge the game library of services I
successfully logged in to?

> If you really have been using Linux "for almost 3 decades", haven't
> you learned that trying out strange, new distros should be left to
> people who aren't so prone to failure?

They are _all_ prone to failure. How anyone can trust their data to
these distributions when they fail so miserably, so early, so randomly
is beyond me.

>> But you're right. Facing serious problems on day _one_ is a lot better
>> than having to learn something awful like sfc /scannow or dism /online
>> /cleanup-image /scanhealth whenever problems emerge. Only in the perfect
>> world of Linux where commands like "tcpdump -A -s 10240 'tcp port 80 and
>> (((ip[2:2] - ((ip[0]&0xf)<<2)) - ((tcp[12]&0xf0)>>2)) != 0)' | egrep
>> --line-buffered "^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD )|^[A-Za-z0-9-]+: " |
>> sed -r 's/^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD )/\n\1/g'" are the norm can
>> anyone be happy.
>
> Way to muddy the waters. How often do you think people run a command
> like that, and why would anyone consider that "the norm"?
>
> And even though this is an advocacy group, often people here are willing
> to help out. But ranting about how Linux people did you wrong, when
> you haven't even fully described the symptoms, is counter-productive.

I don't know how many times I have to mention that Lutris failed to
acknowledge that I own games for some of you to get the point.

> I seem to remember a problem you had recently with sound, when it ended
> up being some kind of screw loose in your case. That's not the only
> place there's a screw loose. Take your abuse and shove it.
The sound problem was on my mom's computer. Nothing was loose, nothing
was problematic with the hardware at all. Linux Mint just decided that
the speaker port on her computer doesn't exist and that all sound had to
go through her HDMI. This is regardless of the fact that there were no
speakers on the monitor and no speaker port either. I reconfigured it to
go through the speakers, but upon restart it reverted back to its
original behaviour. After a single update, the desktop then became
unbootable.

The sound problem *I* had in the laptop was caused by Geek Squad
settling the new battery onto the audio cable inside the laptop which
caused the audio to short all the time. Once I released it from
underneath the battery, things went to normal. The point here is that my
Windows issue with sound was caused by an error during installation. It
made sense that the hardware had problems as a result of something going
on inside. In my mom's case with Linux, there was nothing logical about
it. Mint simply decided for her how her sound should go and there was no
proper way to fix it within Mint's own settings; you had to install
pipewire or whatever to get it sorted out for that one time. Upon
restart, back to misery it went.

On 2024-06-04 8:23 a.m., vallor wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2024 06:58:08 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v3mdu0$arho$2@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 11:11:19 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:
>>
>>> Point being, the wintrolls knew very little of the pedigree of Unix
>>> workstations until they were schooled.
>>
>> Abso-bloody-lutely.
>
> I've come to the conclusion that the person who asked you for
> the videos was never interested in the aesthetics of the workstation
> desktops of yore -- nor have they acknowledged those desktops' role in
> shaping the look-and-feel of Windows 95.
>
> They seem to be a Windows concern troll having a bit of fun with us...

He wanted me to believe that UNIX desktops of the 90s were prettier than
what Windows 95 had to offer. That was a lie and his first two videos
demonstrated that they were in fact very ugly.

On 6/4/2024 7:47 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2024-06-03 10:33 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 20:42:36 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, following exact instructions to do the things that I intend to do
>>> with a Linux distribution makes me a moron. It only failed because I
>>> farted while doing it or something. Perhaps I didn't type the commands
>>> fast enough or didn't press Enter at the exact time the planets aligned.
>>> It's not Linux, it's never Linux. Some thing or body else is always at
>>> fault.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UnPzp2lmNk
>>
>> Why's everybody always picking on me?
>
> I'm not even complaining, I'm used to this behaviour from the Linux
> faithful. Whenever someone points out one of Linux's flaws or is soured
> on using it because of the rotten experience it provides them, the lot
> of you jump on anyone stating the obvious like flies on a turd. Any time
> anyone shows Linux to be bad in one way or another, this is the only
> response you can provide:
>
> 1) Not me, never!
> 2) You must have done it wrong!
>
> And then, when it is shown that Linux is the problem beyond a shadow of
> a doubt, and the person showing it is only looking for a bug to be fixed
> or for some problem to be corrected, you all disappear. It's the same
> thing here as it is on Linux forums on the web. Every so often, someone
> will "help" by asking the person to execute some obscure command which
> ends up doing nothing but making the problem worse.
>
> But you're right. Facing serious problems on day _one_ is a lot better
> than having to learn something awful like sfc /scannow or dism /online
> /cleanup-image /scanhealth whenever problems emerge. Only in the perfect
> world of Linux where commands like "tcpdump -A -s 10240 'tcp port 80 and
> (((ip[2:2] - ((ip[0]&0xf)<<2)) - ((tcp[12]&0xf0)>>2)) != 0)' | egrep
> --line-buffered "^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD )|^[A-Za-z0-9-]+: " |
> sed -r 's/^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD )/\n\1/g'" are the norm can
> anyone be happy.

* user error
* Linux is just the kernel
* RTFM newb
* Linux is perfect
* you're lying
* works for me
* you're running 3-hours-old code that's been updated
* you have the source code, fix it yourself

And my favorite:
"Whatever their problems is not the fault of Ubuntu"

In this particular case, you're running what appears to be a one-man
hobby project that very likely had zero 3rd party testing.

On 2024-06-04 9:10 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 6/4/2024 7:47 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2024-06-03 10:33 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 20:42:36 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep, following exact instructions to do the things that I intend to do
>>>> with a Linux distribution makes me a moron. It only failed because I
>>>> farted while doing it or something. Perhaps I didn't type the commands
>>>> fast enough or didn't press Enter at the exact time the planets
>>>> aligned.
>>>> It's not Linux, it's never Linux. Some thing or body else is always at
>>>> fault.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UnPzp2lmNk
>>>
>>> Why's everybody always picking on me?
>>
>> I'm not even complaining, I'm used to this behaviour from the Linux
>> faithful. Whenever someone points out one of Linux's flaws or is
>> soured on using it because of the rotten experience it provides them,
>> the lot of you jump on anyone stating the obvious like flies on a
>> turd. Any time anyone shows Linux to be bad in one way or another,
>> this is the only response you can provide:
>>
>> 1) Not me, never!
>> 2) You must have done it wrong!
>>
>> And then, when it is shown that Linux is the problem beyond a shadow
>> of a doubt, and the person showing it is only looking for a bug to be
>> fixed or for some problem to be corrected, you all disappear. It's the
>> same thing here as it is on Linux forums on the web. Every so often,
>> someone will "help" by asking the person to execute some obscure
>> command which ends up doing nothing but making the problem worse.
>>
>> But you're right. Facing serious problems on day _one_ is a lot better
>> than having to learn something awful like sfc /scannow or dism /online
>> /cleanup-image /scanhealth whenever problems emerge. Only in the
>> perfect world of Linux where commands like "tcpdump -A -s 10240 'tcp
>> port 80 and (((ip[2:2] - ((ip[0]&0xf)<<2)) - ((tcp[12]&0xf0)>>2)) !=
>> 0)' | egrep --line-buffered "^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD
>> )|^[A-Za-z0-9-]+: " | sed -r 's/^........(GET |HTTP\/|POST |HEAD
>> )/\n\1/g'" are the norm can anyone be happy.
>
>
> * user error
> * Linux is just the kernel
> * RTFM newb
> * Linux is perfect
> * you're lying
> * works for me
> * you're running 3-hours-old code that's been updated
> * you have the source code, fix it yourself
>
> And my favorite:
> "Whatever their problems is not the fault of Ubuntu"
>
>
>
> In this particular case, you're running what appears to be a one-man
> hobby project that very likely had zero 3rd party testing.

Considering how Lutris is the project I was most interested in, it makes
sense for me to use it in the environment where it is most likely to
work right. Besides, YouTube videos constantly boast about how
performance in Nobara for games is superior to what other distributions
offer.

Either way, every one of these distributions behave like a "one-man
hobby project that had zero third-party testing." I don't know why I
even bother anymore.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 08:23:47 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Hacker's Keyboard! Who needs a 138-key Windowsoft monstrosity!?
>
> I'm left handed so the number pad is wasted on me.

I'm a lefty too, but can use the right hand pretty well, and for some reason I
use touchpads with my right hand (and trackball with my left hand).

In grad school I had to enter reams of numbers into a database in the computer
center, so I'd use the right hand. The left hand was for the sandwiches.

> Some of the laptop keyboard choices are extremely poor. In my Acer the
> insert/delete key is the same size and immediately to the left of the power
> key. Ain't that fun?
>
> I've never remotely approached being a touch typist but some of the
> layouts must drive real typists crazy.

My biggest bad typing habit is always using the left pinky for the Shift key.
It's more annoying now since I still have some residual numbness/weakness from
my neck surgery.

--
Q: How do you keep a moron in suspense?

Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Either way, every one of these distributions behave like a "one-man
> hobby project that had zero third-party testing." I don't know why I
> even bother anymore.

Door, meet AM's ass! :-)

--
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"

Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2024-06-04 8:23 a.m., vallor wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Jun 2024 06:58:08 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v3mdu0$arho$2@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 11:11:19 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Point being, the wintrolls knew very little of the pedigree of Unix
>>>> workstations until they were schooled.
>>>
>>> Abso-bloody-lutely.
>>
>> I've come to the conclusion that the person who asked you for
>> the videos was never interested in the aesthetics of the workstation
>> desktops of yore -- nor have they acknowledged those desktops' role in
>> shaping the look-and-feel of Windows 95.
>>
>> They seem to be a Windows concern troll having a bit of fun with us...
>
> He wanted me to believe that UNIX desktops of the 90s were prettier than
> what Windows 95 had to offer. That was a lie and his first two videos
> demonstrated that they were in fact very ugly.

http://toastytech.com/guis/ow3.html

OpenWindows 3 - SunOS 4.1.4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenWindows

(Talks about OpenWindows 1, circa 1989, replacing the SunView/SunTools
windowing system).

--
You will be married within a year, and divorced within two.