On Tue, 28 May 2024 09:04:39 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 28 May 2024 01:55:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 01:32 this Tuesday
>>> (GMT):
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 23:10:05 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I thought some people still use XP..
>>>>
>>>> But for what? Would you entrust mission-critical business operations
>>>> to obsolete, unsupported software?
>>>
>>> No, because it's a good UI and some stuff still works..from what I
>>> heard.
>>
>> Really?? That Fisher-Price toy-style UI was a “good UI”?
>
> You could switch it to look mostly like Win2000.

You’re admitting that an even older UI out of the 1990s was nicer-looking
than XP?

On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:32:56 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-05-28 2:32 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> Really?? That Fisher-Price toy-style UI was a “good UI”?
>
> In about three clicks, you could change its look so that it looked no
> different than 2000.

Really?? Going to an even older, 1990s-style UI was an advance on XP?

You’re not exactly making your side look good, you know.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:38:28 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>
>> Stop being a zealot for just a second and be objective about things. I
>> guarantee you that Stallman is not a messiah.
>
> Lawrence is not the brightest guy, but you're one to talk about that,
> retard.

What is this? Fractures among the ranks of the Dimdows fan(atic)s? Can’t
figure out how to present a united front against the Relentless Linux
Onslaught?

On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:38:45 -0400, Joel wrote:

> If anyone needs it, I could put it on a binary group, probably could
> even put it on Google Drive, I doubt M$ gives a flying fuck.

Seems like the only way to get through your working day with proprietary
software is to be dishonest.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 09:50:37 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/27/2024 9:37 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 23:26:04 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/26/2024 7:22 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> Today, only Linux and the BSDs offer “workstation”-class
>>>> functionality.
>>>
>>> [random crap]
>
> It is crap, but it's not random.

But still not relevant to the issue of Linux being the king of the
workstation market.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 May 2024 09:04:39 -0400, Joel wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 28 May 2024 01:55:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, because it's [WinXP] a good UI and some stuff still works..from what I
>>>> heard.
>>>
>>> Really?? That Fisher-Price toy-style UI was a “good UI”?
>>
>> You could switch it to look mostly like Win2000.
>
>You’re admitting that an even older UI out of the 1990s was nicer-looking
>than XP?

2000's UI was a bit enhanced over 9x, actually (Me adopted 2000's
look, being released almost a year later, despite being closer to 98
in design, not a version of NT at all, although it did have 2000's
TCP/IP code, the one better thing in it compared to 98). The default
XP theme was glued on, resource-consuming, and pretty dumb looking, if
you ask me.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:38:28 -0400, Joel wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Stop being a zealot for just a second and be objective about things. I
>>> guarantee you that Stallman is not a messiah.
>>
>> Lawrence is not the brightest guy, but you're one to talk about that,
>> retard.
>
>What is this? Fractures among the ranks of the Dimdows fan(atic)s? Can’t
>figure out how to present a united front against the Relentless Linux
>Onslaught?

I'm no longer a fan of Winblows, although I don't *hate* it, I just
want nothing to do with it. Linux for life, until something entirely
different would in theory replace it, which I'm not holding my breath
for in my lifetime.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>> If anyone needs it, I could put it on a binary group, probably could
>> even put it on Google Drive, I doubt M$ gives a flying fuck.
>
>Seems like the only way to get through your working day with proprietary
>software is to be dishonest.

It's just a free trial, dude, I wouldn't include a crack or product
key or anything. You can download Win10 and Win11 *from M$*, now, in
fact.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 5/28/2024 2:50 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2024-05-28 9:34 a.m., DFS wrote:

> If you bought a machine which was designed to run Linux,

I didn't know there was such a thing.

Does that mean Windows won't run on them?

On Tue, 28 May 2024 21:17:06 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<66568211$2$8094$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:

> On 5/28/2024 2:50 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2024-05-28 9:34 a.m., DFS wrote:
>
>
>> If you bought a machine which was designed to run Linux,
>
> I didn't know there was such a thing.
>
> Does that mean Windows won't run on them?

I wouldn't want to try to run Windows on this system, unless it
was in a virt.

--
-v

On 5/28/2024 10:24 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2024 21:17:06 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
> <66568211$2$8094$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>
>> On 5/28/2024 2:50 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-28 9:34 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If you bought a machine which was designed to run Linux,
>>
>> I didn't know there was such a thing.
>>
>> Does that mean Windows won't run on them?
>
> I wouldn't want to try to run Windows on this system, unless it
> was in a virt.

Why?

On Tue, 28 May 2024 22:26:01 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<v363no$viqs$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 5/28/2024 10:24 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 21:17:06 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>> <66568211$2$8094$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>
>>> On 5/28/2024 2:50 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-28 9:34 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you bought a machine which was designed to run Linux,
>>>
>>> I didn't know there was such a thing.
>>>
>>> Does that mean Windows won't run on them?
>>
>> I wouldn't want to try to run Windows on this system, unless it was in
>> a virt.
>
>
> Why?

First, I don't want Microsoft to get its greasy fingers on my EFI.

Second, it probably doesn't have drivers for the custom daughterboard
that runs the cooling, and I'm not willing to spend the time to
chase down Windows drivers.

Third...there's no need. The system is perfectly fine with what it has,
and needs nothing that Windows has to offer. If that changed, maybe
I'd rethink it.

--
-v

On 5/28/2024 11:12 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2024 22:26:01 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
> <v363no$viqs$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 5/28/2024 10:24 PM, vallor wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 21:17:06 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>> <66568211$2$8094$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 5/28/2024 2:50 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-05-28 9:34 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you bought a machine which was designed to run Linux,
>>>>
>>>> I didn't know there was such a thing.
>>>>
>>>> Does that mean Windows won't run on them?
>>>
>>> I wouldn't want to try to run Windows on this system, unless it was in
>>> a virt.
>>
>>
>> Why?
>
> First, I don't want Microsoft to get its greasy fingers on my EFI.
>
> Second, it probably doesn't have drivers for the custom daughterboard
> that runs the cooling, and I'm not willing to spend the time to
> chase down Windows drivers.
>
> Third...there's no need. The system is perfectly fine with what it has,
> and needs nothing that Windows has to offer. If that changed, maybe
> I'd rethink it.

What are the exact specs of the hardware?

On Tue, 28 May 2024 23:17:32 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<66569e4b$8$1258331$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:

> On 5/28/2024 11:12 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 22:26:01 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>> <v363no$viqs$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On 5/28/2024 10:24 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 21:17:06 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>> <66568211$2$8094$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/28/2024 2:50 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-05-28 9:34 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you bought a machine which was designed to run Linux,
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't know there was such a thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does that mean Windows won't run on them?
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't want to try to run Windows on this system, unless it was
>>>> in a virt.
>>>
>>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> First, I don't want Microsoft to get its greasy fingers on my EFI.
>>
>> Second, it probably doesn't have drivers for the custom daughterboard
>> that runs the cooling, and I'm not willing to spend the time to chase
>> down Windows drivers.
>>
>> Third...there's no need. The system is perfectly fine with what it
>> has,
>> and needs nothing that Windows has to offer. If that changed, maybe
>> I'd rethink it.
>
>
> What are the exact specs of the hardware?
This is the 1.0 version, I have the 1.1 version:

https://tech-docs.system76.com/models/thelio-mega-r1.0/README.html

With a AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X. 256G of ECC memory.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti

If the daughterboard isn't supported on Windows, all the cooling
fans will run full-speed, which would be annoying.

--
-v

What are you doing that requires 256 Giga_Bytes
of ECC memory and extraordinary cooling ?

On Tue, 28 May 2024 23:17:32 -0400, DFS wrote:

> What are the exact specs of the hardware?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=JTN1c1j6V1s&list=LLLpz93TZfYzoEgEICOaMA0Q&index=189

The review isn't for the mega with its eye watering price tag but it does
point out that except for the cool case a trip to NewEgg would save you
about $1000 for the one they specced.

On 29 May 2024 05:03:16 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
<lbnr8kFcdqnU1@mid.individual.net>:

> On Tue, 28 May 2024 23:17:32 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> What are the exact specs of the hardware?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?
> v=JTN1c1j6V1s&list=LLLpz93TZfYzoEgEICOaMA0Q&index=189
>
> The review isn't for the mega with its eye watering price tag but it
> does point out that except for the cool case a trip to NewEgg would save
> you about $1000 for the one they specced.

The "Linus" of "Linus tech tips" is very hard to listen to -- and
apparently doesn't know what a Unix workstation is.

I've build my Linux systems throughout the years, but this time, I'm
old enough that I wanted a turnkey Linux workstation. (My time was very
valuable when I bought it.)

Further, I've already used System76's tech support for one issue, and
they were very responsive. I don't think I'd get that with NewEgg.

--
-v

On Tue, 28 May 2024 20:19:56 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>On Tue, 28 May 2024 09:04:39 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>On Tue, 28 May 2024 01:55:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, because it's [WinXP] a good UI and some stuff still works..from
>>>>> what I heard.
>>>>
>>>> Really?? That Fisher-Price toy-style UI was a “good UI”?
>>>
>>> You could switch it to look mostly like Win2000.
>>
>> You’re admitting that an even older UI out of the 1990s was
>> nicer-looking than XP?
>
> 2000's UI was a bit enhanced over 9x, actually ...

Really?? Now you’re resorting to comparing it with even older, DOS-based
Windows to try to make it look good?

On Tue, 28 May 2024 20:22:36 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> If anyone needs it, I could put it on a binary group, probably could
>>> even put it on Google Drive, I doubt M$ gives a flying fuck.
>>
>> Seems like the only way to get through your working day with
>> proprietary software is to be dishonest.
>
> It's just a free trial, dude ...

Sure, keep telling yourself that, even as you violate the EULA.

> You can download Win10 and Win11 *from M$*, now, in fact.

But they don’t allow others to redistribute it.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:10:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Funny enough, the guy I worked with who was a Linux die-hard also used
> the rotating cube to "convince" me that Linux was better. My only
> response to him was "that's pretty, how is this better than pressing
> alt-tab?"

Alt-tab is just for switching windows within a desktop.

On KDE, I also have keyboard shortcuts for switching desktops.

(You know about multiple desktops? A feature which the *nix world has had
since the days of OSF Motif/CDE, which Microsoft is now trying to emulate
but still can’t get right?)

The desktop cube, wobbly windows, disintegrating windows ... that’s all
just bling for inducing Linux-envy among Windows sufferers.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:00:16 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-05-27 9:35 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 08:42:54 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> I already know that Linux is extremely popular with programmers.
>>> It's just not popular with most of anyone else.
>>
>> Funny, most of the dozens of people I do Linux support for are not
>> programmers/developers.
>
> Good for you. Do you understand the meaning of "most?"

Linux is far more popular with non-programmers/developers than with
programmers/developers.

Does that answer your question?

On 2024-05-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:10:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> He started talking to me about virtual desktops and all the rest but the
>> response remained the same "virtual desktops, that's neat. How is this
>> better than minimizing and alt-tab?" In the end, very little of what
>> Linux has introduced has actually helped productivity in any way. I'd
>> say that the hot corners is pretty much the only one, but I have no idea
>> if that started in Linux.
>
> That depends on your work flow. I often have several unrelated projects
> going at the same time. it's easier to keep track if they are on different
> desktops especially if they all are similar. For example working with
> several Python venvs, each with a terminal and a VSCode instance, possibly
> with a browser instance for documentation.
>
> That was a feature I always missed on Windows and some of the third party
> attempts were unstable. MS finally caught on.
>
> Rotating cubes, hot corners, and so forth doesn't impress me. If fact when
> the mouse cursor drifts a little close to a boundary and I'm suddenly
> looking at a desktop with process icons or the window decides to expand
> itself to full page I get a bit pissed off.

I use virtual desktops all the time. My main computer is in the bedroom.
When my wife wants to sleep at night (yeah, she's strange ;) ) I use a
computer in the upstairs family room. I have two virtual desktops, on the
second one I open my main computer in NoMachine. That way I don't have to
recreate everything I do on the main computer on my "secondary" computer.
Right now I'm using slrn on my main computer from my secondary computer.
It's neatly tucked away on the second desktop. I could put slrn on this
computer, but then I would have to sync the scorefile. Works out well. Easy
to keep the two separate.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-28, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-28 2:06 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:10:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> He started talking to me about virtual desktops and all the rest but the
>>> response remained the same "virtual desktops, that's neat. How is this
>>> better than minimizing and alt-tab?" In the end, very little of what
>>> Linux has introduced has actually helped productivity in any way. I'd
>>> say that the hot corners is pretty much the only one, but I have no idea
>>> if that started in Linux.
>>
>> That depends on your work flow. I often have several unrelated projects
>> going at the same time. it's easier to keep track if they are on different
>> desktops especially if they all are similar. For example working with
>> several Python venvs, each with a terminal and a VSCode instance, possibly
>> with a browser instance for documentation.
>>
>> That was a feature I always missed on Windows and some of the third party
>> attempts were unstable. MS finally caught on.
>>
>> Rotating cubes, hot corners, and so forth doesn't impress me. If fact when
>> the mouse cursor drifts a little close to a boundary and I'm suddenly
>> looking at a desktop with process icons or the window decides to expand
>> itself to full page I get a bit pissed off.
>
> I thought hot corners were the smartest thing until I discovered that
> the same functionality can be obtained through a three-finger flick
> upwards on a trackpad. It saves me a lot of time, especially in class.
> I've since mapped that functionality to the middle button of my mouse
> because I use it all the time.

I don't know anything about hot corners, but one thing I always turn off is
tiling and automatic window expansion. When I move my application to the top
of my screen I don't want it to expand to take up the whole screen.
Irritating "feature."

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-28, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-28 8:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-05-28, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-27 9:33 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 07:53:13 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-05-26 7:18 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 09:06:43 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I upgraded to Linux from Windows XP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're in the minority no matter how you spin it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where are the Windows XP users? Gone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where are the Linux users? More numerous than ever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who’s the “minority” now?
>>>>>
>>>>> Linux, still. The XP users went to 7 once they could and upgraded their
>>>>> machines.
>>>>
>>>> Really? Windows 7? Is that the best the poor things could do?
>>>
>>> Are you purposefully dense? I'm going in chronological order.
>>>
>>> Those who had machines which could capably run Windows XP did so until
>>> 2014 when Microsoft stopped supporting the product. At that point, if
>>> they saw the lack of support as a problem, they upgraded their machines
>>> to one running 7 or 8.1. They didn't say "let me hold onto this 2001
>>> machine and run some shit Linux distribution on it."
>>
>> I moved from XP to Linux and Linux wasn't shit. Windows Vista, now that
>> truly was shit.
>
> It wasn't good on poor hardware, but it ran rather well on decent
> hardware. The only issue I ever faced with it (out of beta) was that it
> took an exceptionally long time to refresh the Windows Explorer. It
> suggested that my filesystem was complex when it wasn't. At the time, I
> actually preferred to just use Linux too, but 7 brought me back.

I have a laptop that still has Vista on it. A dell E6400 Dual Core. I bought
it cheap several years ago on Craig's List. It came with a pirated version
of Windows 7 corporate something or other, which I deleted. It had a Vista
license, so I put some effort into finding Vista for it, installing it and
finding the drivers. By this time Vista had been abandoned, so it was the
latest version. I dual-booted Linux Mint on that computer, so hardly ever
used Vista — it was just a challenge to see if I could install it. By the
end of its run, Vista was pretty much Windows 7, but that's not how it
started when it was first released. I still have that computer and it will
still dual-boot, to outdated Vista and outdated Linux Mint 18. I kind of
keep it as a backup, but even the latest release of Vista didn't seem too
impressive to me. (I had already been using Linux for about several years by
the time I used Vista.)

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:32:56 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> On 2024-05-28 2:32 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> Really?? That Fisher-Price toy-style UI was a “good UI”?
>>
>> In about three clicks, you could change its look so that it looked no
>> different than 2000.
>
> Really?? Going to an even older, 1990s-style UI was an advance on XP?
>
> You’re not exactly making your side look good, you know.

Or, with a few more clicks, you can make Linux look like something Windows
users only wished their Windows machines could copy. It's called
customization. Linux gives you lots of choices. Windows doesn't.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine