On May 26, 2024 at 10:41:03 AM EDT, "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

>
> Yeah, I quoted it here off and on since 2011. And a few months ago,
> where it showed in Brazil:
>
> Windows 90%
> OSX 4%
> Linux 3%
> Unknown 3%
>
> https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/brazil
>
>
> This is why I'm very suspicious of stats showing Mac at 20%, no matter
> the country. That's what recent data shows for the US, but I have a
> hard time believing Macs are 1 in 5 desktops/laptops in the US.

Largely due to the success of iPhones in the U.S. The famous Apple ecosystem.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 13:37:55 -0700 (Seattle), "Relf"
<Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote in <Jeff-Relf.Me@May.26--1.37pm.Seattle.2024>:

> You (DistroMan) replied ( to me ):
>> > > > So you'll never experience stereo movies/songs Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound,
>> > > > nor will you ever enjoy this 39 button gShift mouse:
>> > > > Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG
>> >
>> > You'll never see the drivers, DistroMan, so you'll never know.
>>
>> _What_ drivers? It's a USB device, and the X Window System maps
>> the mouse keypresses to events that can be assigned.
>>
>> IAW, I can bind them to actions in my games, or anywhere else.
>> It is no different than Windoze.
>
> Do you know what a "gShift" is ?
>
> Are you enjoying stereo movies/songs/games Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound ?
>
> Again: You'll never see the drivers, DistroMan.

You're crazy, prattling on about your freaking mouse,
ya Left-Coast computer geek!

This is what I use:

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-910-003879-Laser-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00EE99KMM/

And "Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound" doesn't add anything to the sound.

However, 5.1 audio from DVD's _does_ have "surround sound". You can
even get the old-timey "quadraphonic" audio on DVD for some artists.

IAW: "Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound" is an illusion. Enjoy your fantasy
sound!

--
-v

On Sun, 26 May 2024 07:27:04 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-05-26 3:39 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 21:44:20 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-25 8:58 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, real-time Compiz effects were running quite comfortably
>>>> under Linux, on hardware as modest as this Asus Eee 701 with its
>>>> 900-MHz single- core Celeron, that I still have just nearby.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, if you activated Compiz effects, they ran nice for about ten
>>> minutes and then caused your windows to turn black.
>>
>> I ran them for longer than that. In fact, I’ve been running them for about
>> a decade and a half since then.
>
> On XFCE? I can't imagine them working properly on anything else.

Nope, KDE. Can’t imagine much, can you?

DistroMan: "Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound" is an illusion. Enjoy !

No, it's quite real; I wouldn't be without it.
You'll never know because you don't have the drivers.

Re: Amazon.COM/dp/B00EE99KMM

Apparently, you've got the g600 mouse, same as me... apparently.

"The gShift ring finger button" nearly doubles ( 20 to 39 )
the number of actions you can perform:

Amazon.COM/gp/product/B0086UK7IQ
Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG

What happens when you press it !?

On Sun, 26 May 2024 14:58:52 -0700 (Seattle), "Relf"
<Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote in <Jeff-Relf.Me@May.26--2.58pm.Seattle.2024>:

> DistroMan: "Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound" is an illusion. Enjoy !
>
> No, it's quite real; I wouldn't be without it.
> You'll never know because you don't have the drivers.
>
> Re: Amazon.COM/dp/B00EE99KMM
>
> Apparently, you've got the g600 mouse, same as me... apparently.
>
> "The gShift ring finger button" nearly doubles ( 20 to 39 )
> the number of actions you can perform:
>
> Amazon.COM/gp/product/B0086UK7IQ
> Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG
>
> What happens when you press it !?

Using "G18":

Without it:

KeyPress event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1909403, (150,94), root:(1981,1128),
state 0x10, keycode 90 (keysym 0xffb0, KP_0), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
XmbLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1909589, (150,94), root:(1981,1128),
state 0x10, keycode 90 (keysym 0xffb0, KP_0), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
XFilterEvent returns: False

With it:
KeyPress event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1912624, (145,89), root:(1976,1123),
state 0x10, keycode 37 (keysym 0xffe3, Control_L), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyPress event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1912624, (145,89), root:(1976,1123),
state 0x14, keycode 90 (keysym 0xffb0, KP_0), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
XmbLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1912789, (145,89), root:(1976,1123),
state 0x14, keycode 37 (keysym 0xffe3, Control_L), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1912789, (145,89), root:(1976,1123),
state 0x10, keycode 90 (keysym 0xffb0, KP_0), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
XFilterEvent returns: False

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

So right now it's essentially a modifier: left ctrl key.

--
-v

vallor wrote:
> On Sun, 26 May 2024 14:58:52 -0700 (Seattle), "Relf"
> <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote in <Jeff-Relf.Me@May.26--2.58pm.Seattle.2024>:
>
>> DistroMan: "Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound" is an illusion. Enjoy !
>>
>> No, it's quite real; I wouldn't be without it.
>> You'll never know because you don't have the drivers.
>>
>> Re: Amazon.COM/dp/B00EE99KMM
>>
>> Apparently, you've got the g600 mouse, same as me... apparently.
>>
>> "The gShift ring finger button" nearly doubles ( 20 to 39 )
>> the number of actions you can perform:
>>
>> Amazon.COM/gp/product/B0086UK7IQ
>> Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG
>>
>> What happens when you press it !?
>
> Using "G18":
>
> Without it:
>
> KeyPress event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
> root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1909403, (150,94), root:(1981,1128),
> state 0x10, keycode 90 (keysym 0xffb0, KP_0), same_screen YES,
> XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
> XmbLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
> XFilterEvent returns: False
>
> KeyRelease event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
> root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1909589, (150,94), root:(1981,1128),
> state 0x10, keycode 90 (keysym 0xffb0, KP_0), same_screen YES,
> XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
> XFilterEvent returns: False
>
> With it:
> KeyPress event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
> root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1912624, (145,89), root:(1976,1123),
> state 0x10, keycode 37 (keysym 0xffe3, Control_L), same_screen YES,
> XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
> XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
> XFilterEvent returns: False
>
> KeyPress event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
> root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1912624, (145,89), root:(1976,1123),
> state 0x14, keycode 90 (keysym 0xffb0, KP_0), same_screen YES,
> XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
> XmbLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
> XFilterEvent returns: False
>
> KeyRelease event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
> root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1912789, (145,89), root:(1976,1123),
> state 0x14, keycode 37 (keysym 0xffe3, Control_L), same_screen YES,
> XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
> XFilterEvent returns: False
>
> KeyRelease event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x6a00001,
> root 0x1e6, subw 0x0, time 1912789, (145,89), root:(1976,1123),
> state 0x10, keycode 90 (keysym 0xffb0, KP_0), same_screen YES,
> XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (30) "0"
> XFilterEvent returns: False
>
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>
> So right now it's essentially a modifier: left ctrl key.
>
no its not

Your gShift is Ctrl.

For me, button 20 is Ctrl; i.e. "b20 Wheel" Zooms.

gShift b20 is double quote (").

You can't do this (above), you don't have the drivers.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 15:44:14 -0700 (Seattle), "Relf"
<Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote in <Jeff-Relf.Me@May.26--3.44pm.Seattle.2024>:

> Your gShift is Ctrl.
>
> For me, button 20 is Ctrl; i.e. "b20 Wheel" Zooms.
>
> gShift b20 is double quote (").
>
> You can't do this (above), you don't have the drivers.

You're talking nonsense.

I can map any X event to any keypress. X is flexible that
way -- and you would do well to learn more about it, because
MS Windows may be using it someday...

(That is to say: using it more than it is already being
used in WSL, the Linux component in Windows.)

XMODMAP(1) General Commands Manual XMODMAP(1)

NAME
xmodmap - utility for modifying keymaps and pointer but‐
ton mappings in X

SYNOPSIS
xmodmap [-options ...] [filename]

DESCRIPTION
The xmodmap program is used to edit and display the key‐
board modifier map and keymap table that are used by
client applications to convert event keycodes into
keysyms. It is usually run from the user's session
startup script to configure the keyboard according to
personal tastes.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Give it up, Jeff: you're stuck in DOS land.

(Also, my mouse doesn't have a "b20" -- it's "g20", a game button.)

--
-v

On 26 May 2024 02:15:31 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> Windows Server 2012 also had the Metro stuff which was particularly
> stupid for a server.

Because the Windows GUI is so heavily tied into the kernel, there is no
easy way to ship different versions of it.

Up to the 1990s, the *nix idea of running a separate GUI server actually
cost it in overhead. But once hardware advances (and suitable X11
extensions) rendered that point moot, the modularity inherent in this
approach has demonstrated its flexility in spades.

That’s why Windows will never have this
<https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/>.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 09:06:43 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

>> I upgraded to Linux from Windows XP.
>
> You're in the minority no matter how you spin it.

Where are the Windows XP users? Gone.

Where are the Linux users? More numerous than ever.

Who’s the “minority” now?

On Sun, 26 May 2024 10:12:51 -0400, DFS wrote:

> A 'workstation' is just a powerful desktop computer, and Windows is king
> of the desktop.

Think of a “desktop” as a cut-down workstation: anything that might
encroach on “server”-style functionality has had its functionality
carefully crippled.

This is how the “Unix workstations” of yore worked. They were expensive
back then. So Windows NT “Workstation” came along, at a cut-down price,
and also cut-down functionality, but the customers didn’t notice -- then.

Today, only Linux and the BSDs offer “workstation”-class functionality.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 07:26:34 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 07:21:34 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v2untu$3ajrn$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 21:42:34 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-25 8:55 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to develop for
>>>>> Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available to
>>>>> alternative systems like Linux instead.
>>>>
>>>> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to
>>>> bring out WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning
>>>> Windows.
>>>
>>> In favour of Linux?
>>
>> Yes. After all, it wasn’t “WSM” or “WSA” or “WSI” or “WSB” or anything
>> else, it was “WSL”. Linux compatibility was what was needed.
>
> Microsoft tried for "compatibility", then...punted to running Linux in a
> HyperV virtual host.
>
> Modern Windows has Linux, actual Linux, as a component. Would be a
> shame if they didn't take more advantage of that...
>
> ...oh wait, I guess they are with their AI development!

And so we circle back to the original subject of this thread.

On 26 May 2024 17:43:43 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> Some of the manufacturers realized a sale is a sale and went
> to the minimal effort of developing Linux drivers.

Apropos “Halloween II”
<http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween2.html>:

An important attribute to note which has led to volume drivers is
the ease with which you can write drivers for linux, and the
relatively powerful debugging infrastructure that linux has.
Finding and installing the DDK, and trying to hook up the kernel
debugger and do any sort of interaction with user-mode without
tearing the NT system to bits is much more challenging than
writing the simple device-drivers for linux. Any idiot could write
a driver in 2 days with a book like "Linux Device Drivers" — there
is no such thing as a 2-day device-driver for NT ...

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On 26 May 2024 02:15:31 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> Windows Server 2012 also had the Metro stuff which was particularly
>> stupid for a server.
>
>Because the Windows GUI is so heavily tied into the kernel, there is no
>easy way to ship different versions of it.

Utter idiocy. It was just marketing, M$ does weird, annoying things
at times, that's why Classic Shell was the first thing I installed
after the 7-to-8 upgrade. That's why I disabled Copilot in Win11.
Fuck their gimmicks.

>Up to the 1990s, the *nix idea of running a separate GUI server actually
>cost it in overhead. But once hardware advances (and suitable X11
>extensions) rendered that point moot, the modularity inherent in this
>approach has demonstrated its flexility in spades.
>
>That’s why Windows will never have this
><https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/>.

What are you talking about?

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

You (DistroMan) replied ( to me ):
> > For me, button 20 is Ctrl; i.e. "g20 Wheel" Zooms.
> > gShift g20 is double quote (").
> > You can't do this (above), you don't have the drivers.
>
> You're talking nonsense.

Assuming you're right, and I'm wrong, you should be able to assign Ctrl to g20
and, at the same time, assign double quote (") to gShift g20.

Nothing you wrote convinced me that you can do it;
more concerning, you haven't done it.

You can't do it because you don't have the drivers.

You can't Up_Mix stereo to Surround_Sound because you don't have the drivers.

On May 25, 2024 at 4:27:10 PM EDT, "Stéphane CARPENTIER" <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
wrote:

> Le 23-05-2024, Tyrone <none@none.none> a écrit :
>>
>> Microsoft has no monopoly. On anything. It is to their benefit to retire
>> Windows. Windows usage is shrinking, and has been for the last 14 years.
>
> The benefit of Microsoft is not to retire Windows, it's to reduce its
> costs. It's not the same.

They have already done that. Windows 10 was a free upgrade to individual
users. Windows 11 is also a free upgrade. But since I wanted to install 11 Pro
Arm in a VM on this Mac, I paid $30 for a license from Bleeping Computer and
downloaded the ISO from MS.

Windows no longer costs $200. Coincidentally, no one gets in line to buy the
new version like they did 20 years ago. As always, when demand goes down the
price goes down.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:

>Windows 11 is also a free upgrade. But since I wanted to install 11 Pro
>Arm in a VM on this Mac, I paid $30 for a license from Bleeping Computer and
>downloaded the ISO from MS.
>
>Windows no longer costs $200. Coincidentally, no one gets in line to buy the
>new version like they did 20 years ago. As always, when demand goes down the
>price goes down.

The *retail* price for Pro is $200. Bleeping Computer's licenses are
not really that. But there is no great honor in having a retail
license, anyway. No one should flush that $200 down the toilet, when
Bleeping Computer has a valid license for far less.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 19:32:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
<ohh75j5o59ntc0pqtdgmpeteheom14ng5i@4ax.com>:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>That’s why Windows will never have this
>><https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/>.
>
>
> What are you talking about?

Flashy desktops that make you drul.

I just went there and found some programs to enhance
my desktop. Some cool tools on there.

--
-v

On Sun, 26 May 2024 23:28:06 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> Any idiot could write
> a driver in 2 days with a book like "Linux Device Drivers" — there
> is no such thing as a 2-day device-driver for NT ...

Sitting there on my bookshelf...

vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>On Sun, 26 May 2024 19:32:55 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
><ohh75j5o59ntc0pqtdgmpeteheom14ng5i@4ax.com>:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>That’s why Windows will never have this
>>><https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/>.
>>
>> What are you talking about?
>
>Flashy desktops that make you drul.
>
>I just went there and found some programs to enhance
>my desktop. Some cool tools on there.

Sure, but Lawrence was suggesting something completely bogus, in fact
it would be conceivable to replace explorer.exe's main GUI in
Winblows, M$ or an entity with knowledge of the internals could make
it happen. There is no big tie-in to the kernel with the start menu,
or whatever, that's retarded to think. He's posting out of his ass.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:20:03 -0700 (Seattle), Relf wrote:

> So you'll never experience stereo movies/songs Up_Mixed to
> Surround_Sound,
> nor will you ever enjoy this 39 button gShift mouse:
>
> Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG

Thank you, Jesus. Chuck Moore of FORTH fame was a little on the strange
side. He showed up at the FORTH conference in Rochester NY with a home
made one-handed keyboard. It never caught on. This wasn't a half keyboard
like some gamers use.

https://www.instructables.com/One-Handed-Chording-Keyboard/

That's as close as I can come to the concept although in the early '80s he
wasn't using a Pico. It also was handheld and not something you needed a
desktop for.

There really is a Forth implementation for the Pico so he might be right
at home.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 23:18:36 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 09:06:43 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>>> I upgraded to Linux from Windows XP.
>>
>> You're in the minority no matter how you spin it.
>
> Where are the Windows XP users? Gone.

Good thing.

https://itc.ua/en/news/a-clean-windows-xp-lasted-10-minutes-on-the-
internet-before-being-infected-it-was-infected-by-malware-from-russia/

https://www.theregister.com/2004/08/19/infected_in20_minutes/

The Register article is 20 years old but even then they figured the
average used would be hosed before they could run the updates.

My old XP netbook is now a happy Lubuntu machine. The only complication
was using a Panda USB wifi dongle to get on the net so I could install the
necessary Broadcomm drivers.

On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-26 8:21 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-25 3:44 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>> On 5/25/2024 1:11 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>> shitv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "So sorry, but Vista is a big sales and financial success for MS - and
>>>>>> will shortly finish wiping the floor with Linux and it's 392 free
>>>>>> distros."  -  some dumb fsck
>>>>
>>>> And it did wipe the floor with Linux - as EVERY desktop Windows version
>>>> has - reaching 24% market share within a couple/few years, while Linux
>>>> never even reached 2% within 20 years.
>>>
>>> Fact.
>>>
>>>>> That really is funny,
>>>>
>>>> It WAS funny to see various drunk cola idiots declare Vista a "failure".
>>>>  I watched it in realtime, here on cola.
>>>>
>>>> But some Win over Lin beatdowns are funnier than others.  The funniest
>>>> ones are those where the goobers at the Free Software Foundation declare
>>>> "victory" over MS or Windows - AFTER MS sells hundreds of millions of
>>>> Windows licenses.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if Microsoft can recover from those beatdowns.
>>>
>>> I actually thought that Vista was pretty good. It was slow to refresh a
>>> Windows Explorer window for whatever reason, but it was otherwise
>>> alright on a decent machine. I've said it before here though: the betas
>>> were absolutely awful and when we got word that it was releasing to
>>> manufacturer, I was very surprised. The product was nowhere near ready
>>> to ship, in my opinion.
>>>
>>>>> because of how many people literally put XP on machines sold with Vista.
>>>>
>>>> That's just lies and imagination.
>>>
>>> Low-end machines with Vista pre-installed probably had many owners ask
>>> friends to install XP on it for them. I have no doubt about it,
>>> actually. However, the numbers were probably not that large. Most people
>>> probably suffered through Vista and eventually upgraded when 7 was released.
>>
>> I upgraded to Linux from Windows XP.
>
> You're in the minority no matter how you spin it. A lot of people just
> held onto Windows XP until it stopped being supported in 2015 or moved
> to 7 once it was available. Some people truly love Linux, but a lot of
> the people who tried it moved right back onto Windows because something
> they enjoyed was suddenly missing.

Basically the only thing I missed in Linux was Movie Magic Screenwriter, but
I ran it in a virtual machine for a few years until Trelby came out.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On Sun, 26 May 2024 23:22:11 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> This is how the “Unix workstations” of yore worked. They were expensive
> back then. So Windows NT “Workstation” came along, at a cut-down price,
> and also cut-down functionality, but the customers didn’t notice --
> then.

And then life became more difficult... Our clients were running RS/6000
servers and workstations. I can't remember the versions after all these
years but when IBM released the patches for Y2K they couldn't be applied
to the older hardware. Looking at the cost for just a RS/6000 workstation
suddenly made switching to Windows very attractive.

Maybe in a parallel universe if Linux in 2000 was what it is in 2024 it
would have been a different story.

On 27 May 2024 02:28:54 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
<lbi9f6Fhd3pU1@mid.individual.net>:

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 23:22:11 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> This is how the “Unix workstations” of yore worked. They were expensive
>> back then. So Windows NT “Workstation” came along, at a cut-down price,
>> and also cut-down functionality, but the customers didn’t notice --
>> then.
>
> And then life became more difficult... Our clients were running RS/6000
> servers and workstations. I can't remember the versions after all these
> years but when IBM released the patches for Y2K they couldn't be applied
> to the older hardware. Looking at the cost for just a RS/6000
> workstation suddenly made switching to Windows very attractive.
>
> Maybe in a parallel universe if Linux in 2000 was what it is in 2024 it
> would have been a different story.

I just went to Dell and looked up "Linux Workstation", and
this was top-of-the-line:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/precision-7960-tower-workstation/spd/precision-t7960-workstation/xctopt7960usai_vp

I already posted a link to the System76 Thelio.

They are expensive compared to consumer desktops.

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-v