Joel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>On 5/27/2024 10:24 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure that all Linux companies are in tears at the knowledge that you
>>> won't buy from them.
>>
>>I engage in psychological warfare. I log to Linux sites like System76,
>>load up a cart with 4 maxed-out systems... then leave. It kills them!

What an asshole.

> And you're in your 60s?

Must be a Microsoft fan thang. I worked with a .NET/C# guy who was a major
asshole. First, one of the top office managers asked him if he'd join our C++
project. He refused to use C++. When I got put on a project with him, he sent
me off doing projects that he would simply scrap and do it another way. He
quite often brushed of problem reports. Once I got out from under him, the
fellow who replaced him ended up reporting him to HR for being unresponsive to
customer requests. He eventually left for another gig... his resume reported a
hella buncha gigs, including a stint with "Trump".

--
F.S. Fitzgerald to Hemingway: "Ernest, the rich are different from us."
Hemingway: "Yes. They have more money."

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

>"On all pre-2007 computers, pClinuxOS and Mepis load in like 20 minutes,
>run fantastic! Upto 50X faster than XP Pro!"

20 minutes? Is that high performance, somehow? I am lost.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

DFS wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Linux makes you crazy.

It worked for you :-D

--
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less
than half of you half as well as you deserve.
-- J. R. R. Tolkien

On 2024-05-28 2:32 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2024 01:55:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 01:32 this Tuesday (GMT):
>>
>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 23:10:05 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I thought some people still use XP..
>>>
>>> But for what? Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to
>>> obsolete, unsupported software?
>>
>> No, because it's a good UI and some stuff still works..from what I
>> heard.
>
> Really?? That Fisher-Price toy-style UI was a “good UI”?

In about three clicks, you could change its look so that it looked no
different than 2000. I was not a fan of the default interface either,
but I was a huge fan of the fact that unlike Linux at the time,
everything worked as expected.

Stop being a zealot for just a second and be objective about things. I
guarantee you that Stallman is not a messiah.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>On 2024-05-28 2:32 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> Really?? That Fisher-Price toy-style UI [of WinXP] was a “good UI”?
>
>In about three clicks, you could change its look so that it looked no
>different than 2000.

As I already said, killfile faggot.

> I was not a fan of the default interface either,
>but I was a huge fan of the fact that unlike Linux at the time,
>everything worked as expected.

Yeah, but WinMe sure sold copies of it for that reason, didn't it? It
should've been *free* for victims of WinMe machines.

>Stop being a zealot for just a second and be objective about things. I
>guarantee you that Stallman is not a messiah.

Lawrence is not the brightest guy, but you're one to talk about that,
retard.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-05-28, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>>Funny enough, the guy I worked with who was a Linux die-hard also used
>>the rotating cube to "convince" me that Linux was better. My only
>>response to him was "that's pretty, how is this better than pressing
>>alt-tab?"
>
> Heh. Reminds me of when I bought my Amiga A1000 and was showing it
> off to friends. Even non-geek friends were forced to endure many
> minutes of watching "cool" graphics demos.
>
> They were probably thinking along the lines of "Am I supposed to find
> this interesting or useful?"

Back when I got my Sinclair QL (mid 80s) a big thing was Mandelbrot Sets. I
never could figure out why they were so special. I guess they somehow showed
off the computer's graphic capabilities.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 5/28/2024 11:18 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> DFS wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Linux makes you crazy.
>
> It worked for you :-D

ha!

"Oh, still crazy after all these years"

On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:10:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> He started talking to me about virtual desktops and all the rest but the
> response remained the same "virtual desktops, that's neat. How is this
> better than minimizing and alt-tab?" In the end, very little of what
> Linux has introduced has actually helped productivity in any way. I'd
> say that the hot corners is pretty much the only one, but I have no idea
> if that started in Linux.

That depends on your work flow. I often have several unrelated projects
going at the same time. it's easier to keep track if they are on different
desktops especially if they all are similar. For example working with
several Python venvs, each with a terminal and a VSCode instance, possibly
with a browser instance for documentation.

That was a feature I always missed on Windows and some of the third party
attempts were unstable. MS finally caught on.

Rotating cubes, hot corners, and so forth doesn't impress me. If fact when
the mouse cursor drifts a little close to a boundary and I'm suddenly
looking at a desktop with process icons or the window decides to expand
itself to full page I get a bit pissed off.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 16:09:50 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> Back when I got my Sinclair QL (mid 80s) a big thing was Mandelbrot
> Sets. I never could figure out why they were so special. I guess they
> somehow showed off the computer's graphic capabilities.

Lissajous curves. Look at the cool patterns I can make with my $3000
Textronix scope!

On Tue, 28 May 2024 10:07:33 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Must be a Microsoft fan thang. I worked with a .NET/C# guy who was a
> major asshole. First, one of the top office managers asked him if he'd
> join our C++
> project. He refused to use C++.

Good call! I'll admit my use of C++ goes back to the early days and I
haven't kept up with the improvements but it wasn't my favorite language.
At this point I probably will never learn 'Modern C++' anymore than I'll
bring my fortran knowledge past f77.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 07:35:08 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought some people still use XP..
>>
>>But for what? Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to
>>obsolete, unsupported software?
>
> We use some XP machines at work. They are running old test code for old
> products. They're firewalled off the Internet...

I think if my XP box ever popped up on the network IT would show up in
under 30 seconds with a pair of dikes. Even Win10 is frowned upon.

My desktop is 100.000% black; instead, I use folders.

No "hot corners", nor anything like that.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 May 2024 10:07:33 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Must be a Microsoft fan thang. I worked with a .NET/C# guy who was a
>> major asshole. First, one of the top office managers asked him if he'd
>> join our C++
>> project. He refused to use C++.
>
>Good call! I'll admit my use of C++ goes back to the early days and I
>haven't kept up with the improvements but it wasn't my favorite language.
>At this point I probably will never learn 'Modern C++' anymore than I'll
>bring my fortran knowledge past f77.

I would use the features of CPP that are not OOP, but otherwise,
regular C is all one needs, aside from minor things only assembly can
do (largely OS core/device drivers).

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-05-28 2:45 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2024 02:18:19 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:
>
>> Meanwhile, Linux has no such fsckery...
>
> No fsckery is right.
>
> Linux has no marketing department, looking over the shoulders of the
> engineers and saying “take out that feature, save it for the extra-cost
> pro version”.
>
> Linux gives you 100% right from the moment you open the box.

That is definitely the case. I couldn't believe how much I was able to
do with Linux, even in the command line, on the obsolete Pentium 60
laptop I got from my brother in the early 2000s. With the bundled
Windows 95, it was mostly useless. With Linux, I turned it into a neat
little server.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-28 8:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-05-28, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-27 9:33 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 07:53:13 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-26 7:18 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 09:06:43 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I upgraded to Linux from Windows XP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're in the minority no matter how you spin it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where are the Windows XP users? Gone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where are the Linux users? More numerous than ever.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who’s the “minority” now?
>>>>
>>>> Linux, still. The XP users went to 7 once they could and upgraded their
>>>> machines.
>>>
>>> Really? Windows 7? Is that the best the poor things could do?
>>
>> Are you purposefully dense? I'm going in chronological order.
>>
>> Those who had machines which could capably run Windows XP did so until
>> 2014 when Microsoft stopped supporting the product. At that point, if
>> they saw the lack of support as a problem, they upgraded their machines
>> to one running 7 or 8.1. They didn't say "let me hold onto this 2001
>> machine and run some shit Linux distribution on it."
>
> I moved from XP to Linux and Linux wasn't shit. Windows Vista, now that
> truly was shit.

It wasn't good on poor hardware, but it ran rather well on decent
hardware. The only issue I ever faced with it (out of beta) was that it
took an exceptionally long time to refresh the Windows Explorer. It
suggested that my filesystem was complex when it wasn't. At the time, I
actually preferred to just use Linux too, but 7 brought me back.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-28 8:42 a.m., chrisv wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> Funny enough, the guy I worked with who was a Linux die-hard also used
>> the rotating cube to "convince" me that Linux was better. My only
>> response to him was "that's pretty, how is this better than pressing
>> alt-tab?"
>
> Heh. Reminds me of when I bought my Amiga A1000 and was showing it
> off to friends. Even non-geek friends were forced to endure many
> minutes of watching "cool" graphics demos.
>
> They were probably thinking along the lines of "Am I supposed to find
> this interesting or useful?"

Before I bought an IBM PS/1 in 1991, I enjoyed passing by the local
Compucentre where they had an Amiga housed on the outside corner of the
store showing the bouncy ball and how they could display 4096 colours or
whatever. It was impressive in 1988 and was still impressive when I
bought another computer in 1991. I often wonder why I didn't just go
ahead and buy an Amiga at that point.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-28 9:34 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 5/27/2024 10:24 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2024-05-27 9:25 a.m., DFS wrote:
>
>
>> I'm sure that all Linux companies are in tears at the knowledge that
>> you won't buy from them.
>
>
> I engage in psychological warfare.  I log to Linux sites like System76,
> load up a cart with 4 maxed-out systems... then leave.  It kills them!

If you bought a machine which was designed to run Linux, rather than
install Linux on a machine that originally came with Windows, you might
actually enjoy it. I know that I was a big fan of Linux on my
AMD-powered Dell laptop back in 2007-2009. I only stopped using Linux
because that laptop eventually died, and I replaced it with a Sony Vaio
which didn't seem to like the operating system at all.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-28 9:54 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 2024-05-27 10:32 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>> On 5/27/2024 9:34 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On 27 May 2024 17:44:34 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The plasma people were very proud of bringing back the rotating cube
>>>>> crap in plasma 6.
>>>>
>>>> I missed that. It was an easy to thing to bring up, to make a Windows
>>>> user’s jaw drop.
>>>
>>> More useless, stolen Linux twaddle, cadged from TV graphics and the
>>> Video Toaster.
>>
>> Funny enough, the guy I worked with who was a Linux die-hard also used
>> the rotating cube to "convince" me that Linux was better. My only
>> response to him was "that's pretty, how is this better than pressing
>> alt-tab?" He started talking to me about virtual desktops and all the
>> rest but the response remained the same "virtual desktops, that's neat.
>> How is this better than minimizing and alt-tab?" In the end, very little
>> of what Linux has introduced has actually helped productivity in any
>> way. I'd say that the hot corners is pretty much the only one, but I
>> have no idea if that started in Linux.
>
> :-D
>
> When I had to suffer with a Windoze laptop at work, I increased my productivity
> and working pleasure with Git Bash, VLC, tmux, Firefox and Chrome,
> Vim and Gvim.
>
> I would have continued using Windows in a VM hosted on Linux if the Company
> hadn't been so antagonstic to Linux. Virtual desktops on Windows are a pain in
> the ass.
>
> But to each his "own" (heh heh).

I _do_ think that git is an excellent tool. I'm not sure if it can be
credited as a Linux thing necessarily, but it's probably the most clever
innovation of the past few decades. I also don't think that VLC is
Linux-specific, but it has made the mess of codecs a lot more manageable
for people. If things had remained the way they were, it would have been
nearly impossible to play videos.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-28 11:18 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> DFS wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Linux makes you crazy.
>
> It worked for you :-D

Zealotry is never healthy, and that is what makes people crazy. However,
Linux itself makes the technological field fairer. I still remember how
Office used to cost nearly a thousand dollars around here, and getting
any kind of rebate required people to go out of their way to prove that
they were either working or studying at an academic institution. The
mere existence of LibreOffice brought that down. Similarly, people can't
discount how the mere existence of Firefox forced web sites to rethink
the way they delivered ads. Linux's openness also allowed every company
that was caught with their dick in their hand to compete with Apple who
just delivered the iPhone.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-28 2:06 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:10:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> He started talking to me about virtual desktops and all the rest but the
>> response remained the same "virtual desktops, that's neat. How is this
>> better than minimizing and alt-tab?" In the end, very little of what
>> Linux has introduced has actually helped productivity in any way. I'd
>> say that the hot corners is pretty much the only one, but I have no idea
>> if that started in Linux.
>
> That depends on your work flow. I often have several unrelated projects
> going at the same time. it's easier to keep track if they are on different
> desktops especially if they all are similar. For example working with
> several Python venvs, each with a terminal and a VSCode instance, possibly
> with a browser instance for documentation.
>
> That was a feature I always missed on Windows and some of the third party
> attempts were unstable. MS finally caught on.
>
> Rotating cubes, hot corners, and so forth doesn't impress me. If fact when
> the mouse cursor drifts a little close to a boundary and I'm suddenly
> looking at a desktop with process icons or the window decides to expand
> itself to full page I get a bit pissed off.

I thought hot corners were the smartest thing until I discovered that
the same functionality can be obtained through a three-finger flick
upwards on a trackpad. It saves me a lot of time, especially in class.
I've since mapped that functionality to the middle button of my mouse
because I use it all the time.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-28 2:25 p.m., Relf wrote:
> My desktop is 100.000% black; instead, I use folders.
>
> No "hot corners", nor anything like that.

Does your desktop commit a lot of crimes?

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 17:08:49 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I've since mapped that functionality to the middle button of my mouse
> because I use it all the time.

What do you use to paste?

On Tue, 28 May 2024 14:36:37 -0400, Joel wrote:

> I would use the features of CPP that are not OOP, but otherwise, regular
> C is all one needs, aside from minor things only assembly can do
> (largely OS core/device drivers).

Other than Esri stuff my C++ looks a lot like C but then so does
Stroustrup's in the edition I have. Esri's ArcObjects is COM based so they
make extensive use of smart pointers. It took me a while to get used to

IFeaturePtr pFeature;
IGeometryPtr pGeometry;
ICurvePtr pCurve;

.....
pFeature->get_Shape(&pGeometry);
pCurve = pGeometry

The first one makes sense. There is a bunch of variant and BSTR mumbo-
jumbo that goes with COM but pFeature->get_Value(someField) works like you
would thing but there is no pFeature->get_Curve), only the magical
assignment instead of even pGeometry->get_Curve(&pCurve);

The docs weren't that great so it was often 'okay, I've got this, not how
the hell do I get that?'

The other problem with C++ for me was the awkward way it was hatched that
let Microsoft fill in the blanks so you have things like String and
string.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 07:53:40 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-05-27 9:33 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 07:53:13 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-26 7:18 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 09:06:43 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I upgraded to Linux from Windows XP.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're in the minority no matter how you spin it.
>>>>
>>>> Where are the Windows XP users? Gone.
>>>>
>>>> Where are the Linux users? More numerous than ever.
>>>>
>>>> Who’s the “minority” now?
>>>
>>> Linux, still. The XP users went to 7 once they could and upgraded
>>> their machines.
>>
>> Really? Windows 7? Is that the best the poor things could do?
>
> Are you purposefully dense?

Moving from XP to a warmed-over version of Vista is not exactly keeping up
with current trends, is it?

And even those Vista/7 users are now essentially extinct, too. So my point
still stands: the Linux users are no longer in the minority.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:51:50 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> According to Microsoft’s own research
>>>> <https://tech.slashdot.org/story/22/02/01/2056211>, a typical Windows
>>>> PC needs at least eight hours of online time to fully update itself
>>>> each Patch Tuesday. With a minimum of two hours’
>>>> uninterrupted connection, just to get started.
>>>
>>> It would obviously depend on the speed of one's Internet connection,
>>> how long it takes to download and install the updates, but the point
>>> is that you're beginning from a state where the bugs, in the initial
>>> release and beyond, are resolved.
>>
>> The assumption would be that you were already caught up on previous
>> updates.
>
> What exactly do you think Service Pack 3 would do, if not catch you up
> to all the previous updates to its release?

Regardless of all that, according to Microsoft’s own research, a
supposedly fully-service-packed Windows installation still requires up to
8 hours to get its patches up to date.