On 08/12/2024 22:31, rbowman wrote:
> I can't reliably
> remember the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path, and the Twelve
> Links of Dependent Origination let alone the subgroupings like the Five
> Skahndas.
>
I think you have never been exposed to the Indian art of story telling.
Read Salman Rushdies 'Haroun and the Sea of Stories'...

The 'shah of blah'. King of Bullshit. I always thought that there was a
wonderful amount of utter crap in those texts, and they were originally
spoken with a twinkle in the eye...

> That's probably why I like Nietzsche; sprawling, self-contradictory, spur
> of the moment aphorisms with no attempt to build a system. That's better
> than Schopenhauer's 'On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient
> Reason' which he claims is the key to understanding The World as Will.

That's the only bit of Schopenhauer I didn't like. Otherwise he is a
very clear exponent of Transcendental Idealism.

He arrived at an Eastern view of the world from first principles Quite a
feat.

I would say its more the 'threefold principle of necessary dimension',
myself.

That an observable world will always contain the paradox of self
reference unless it is viewed from a dimension orthogonal to the reality
of perception. What used to be called 'the detached observer' or prior
to that 'the soul'. Pure awareness, as it were without interference..

I.e it is necessary to have not only that which is observed, and what
the observation is - the abstraction of our model of the world - but
some agency that *does the abstraction*, that is in neither the observed
entity nor the model it produces.

Or to put it another way, if we try to understand experience in terms of
two terms we run into paradox. Douglas Hofstadter's writings are an
exploration of this problem of recursion.

Only if you introduce a third element that is orthogonal to the two
others, do you get a model without paradox.

The world as 'will and representation' is Schopenhauer's view that the
world is something with a structure and direction and a sort of force -
'Will' and then the pictures we draw in our heads to enable us to get to
grips with it. Representation.

What he left out was 'who or what is drawing the picture?'

My conclusion was that you cant do it without it becoming an equation of
hree terms

E=f(C,R)

Experience is a function of Consciousness, and Reality - whatever that
may be.

Realism holds that E =f(R) and there is no independent C
Idealism says that E =f(C) and there is no independent R

In the end you can believe what you like, and you will select the one
that works for you.
And your experiences.

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On 08/12/2024 22:38, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 12:15:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Isn't 'in your brain' a dimension?
>
> Not unless you consider various electrochemical processes a dimension.
> There ain't no there there.
>
Well there you are starting with that assumption, so its circular reasoning.

'There ain't no there, there', is pure metaphysical faith.

I am simply not so sure...

--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 09/12/2024 08:02, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> Seems like every time the instruments have a 10x improvement
>   we have to create a whole new physics/cosmology.

You should see what all these latest telescopes in space are revealing!.
--
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On 09/12/2024 08:02, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> Are these 'ancient
>   galaxies' real, or just the ass-end view of nearer
>   galaxies ?   🙂

They are just pixels on a CCD.🙂

--
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
> On 12/8/24 2:50 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2024-12-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> The new guys don't know Linux from their assholes so
>>>> I don't know if it's still there ... they just pay
>>>> M$ lots and lots of $$$ and if anything goes wrong
>>>> they blame M$ or external vendors. Tragic.
>>
>> s/blame/shovel more money at/
>>
>> Your typical luser now just shrugs his shoulders and re-boots,
>> re-formats, and re-installs, while meekly accepting that this is
>> The Way Things Are.
>
>
> It's not just "users" anymore ... they aren't expected
> to know much. It's also a very large segment of IT. The
> goal is to Blame Someone Else - not deal, not fix, not
> defend, not innovate.

Indeed, *very* much so. Which is why "enterprise" and "corporate" IT
environments are so rabid about having "support". "Support" is their
buzzword for "someone else to blame so we can cover our assess when the
shit hits the fan".

On 09/12/2024 15:28, Rich wrote:
> ndeed,*very* much so. Which is why "enterprise" and "corporate" IT
> environments are so rabid about having "support". "Support" is their
> buzzword for "someone else to blame so we can cover our assess when the
> shit hits the fan".

LOL.

Most support contracts are not worth wiping your bottom on.

They are just designed to make money out of.

The sub prime mortgage crisis was typical of such.

"We have shit loads of bad debt that we cant offload"
"Well package it up with insurance against failure and sell it as A1
guaranteed debt then"
"But what will happen if the insurance companies can't cover it"
"Oh that will be the government's problem, not ours"

http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/story.jpg

--
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere,
diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 13:39:51 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> I've heard about it, but I do not think they supported a laptop last
> time I checked it out, and was VM-only, but perhaps things have moved
> in the right direction!

> This is the truth! As long as I can have some basic tools, vim, xfce,
> wifi and decent battery life (oh, and suspend), I'm a happy camper!

It remains mind-boggling to me how poor power-management/laptop support
is in the FOSS world, outside of Linux (which gets it mostly by virtue
of being the proverbial 800-lb. gorilla, relative to the other players.)
OpenBSD I can understand, those people *exclusively* care about server
environments, but it's surprising how spotty NetBSD is with it, and
even moreso something like Haiku which is intended specifically for use
in a desktop personal-computer context...

On 09/12/2024 19:39, John Ames wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 13:39:51 +0100
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> I've heard about it, but I do not think they supported a laptop last
>> time I checked it out, and was VM-only, but perhaps things have moved
>> in the right direction!
>
>> This is the truth! As long as I can have some basic tools, vim, xfce,
>> wifi and decent battery life (oh, and suspend), I'm a happy camper!
>
> It remains mind-boggling to me how poor power-management/laptop support
> is in the FOSS world, outside of Linux (which gets it mostly by virtue
> of being the proverbial 800-lb. gorilla, relative to the other players.)
> OpenBSD I can understand, those people *exclusively* care about server
> environments, but it's surprising how spotty NetBSD is with it, and
> even moreso something like Haiku which is intended specifically for use
> in a desktop personal-computer context...
>

I think that is fair enough. Redhat and IBM poured huge amounts of
developer time into the basic stable server system.

If BSD wants that space they haven't the resources to do the desktop as
well.

Mint works for me in my niche. YMMV

--
Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice.
– Will Durant

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 08/12/2024 20:49, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/12/2024 05:31, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>> On 12/7/24 6:59 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 06/12/2024 17:12, D wrote:
>>>>>> If you postulate something which can never be known, it is kind of
>>>>>> useless. It goes the same way as god, or a postulated first mover etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet that is what people do all the time. In fact it is the necessary
>>>>> foundation of thinking.
>>>>>
>>>>> All metaphysics - and we all use it, whether we understand that we do or
>>>>> not -  is to assume the framework for our understanding, and use it not
>>>>> because it is demonstrably true, but because it *works* for us.
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't  and can't *know* that time and space exist - at least in the
>>>>> way we understand them, but they do *work* for us, the way we understand
>>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>>    Careful ... the "luminiferous aether" WORKED - at least
>>>>    with the existing physics  :-)
>>>>
>>> Exactly. That was Karl Poppers point. We don't discover the  laws, we
>>> actually make them up, and if they work, we use them.
>>
>> If you are interested, Bas van Fraassen probably has some interesting
>> things to add as well. There was also a german guy who wrote something
>> interesting in the 1920s I think on that theme, but for the moment the name
>> does not come back to me.
>>
>
>> Ahh, here we go!
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophy_of_%27As_if%27 .
>>
> Yes. That is exactly what I meant.
>
> Except more so, He argues that if it works, even if its wrong, its OK.

On that theme, did you read any Feyerabend?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Feyerabend#Departure_from_Popper

> My point goes further. We can never know for sure if its *right* so the
> *only* criteria we can have is that it works.
>
> Which was where Karl Popper came in. He arrived at that point and wanted to
> clarify what separated good science from bullshit.
>
> And pseudo scientists have been trying to shout him down ever since

Note that Vaihinger quickly fell out of favour, and that his, Feyerabend,
and to a certain extent The natural ontological attitude
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Natural_Ontological_Attitude) by Arthur
Fine is a very minority position.

That, however, is not an iron clad proof against it, but I'm happy I could
dig out something which perhaps traces your path (unless you haven't
already seen it). When I find something similar for myself, I very much
enjoy reading the criticism of the position to see if it will sway me.

I hope you find the links above interesting and enlightening! =)

As you know, I'm an all out materialist (however it is defined) guy, but,
with that in mind I do appreciate the "agnosticism" of the natural
ontological attitude, if I interpret Fine right. In a way it is quite an
elegant solution, alas the anti-realists do say he got their position
wrong, and that his position can be collapsed into the anti-realist one.

That is kind of what I mean with my thought play agnostic monism. Monism
however, being an assumption that there is some kind of "unified"
principle or machinery giving rise to what we see, although that remains
to be seen.

It seems like unified explanations, simplifications are deep psychological
reflexes and we have taken steps toward a theory of everything, so perhaps
this is even mirrored in nature?

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 08/12/2024 20:50, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/12/2024 10:48, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 07/12/2024 21:48, D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 07/12/2024 16:39, D wrote:
>>>>>>>> So therefore, metaphysics doesn't really exist, except as thought
>>>>>>>> forms to make us feel better (if we need that), in which case it's
>>>>>>>> just a bunch of nice stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well you are starting to make clear a completely metaphysical position
>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you mean by 'really exist' ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With not exist, I mean s an unprovable, ideal reality separate from the
>>>>>> material world.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok like the place where 'natural laws' live?
>>>>
>>>> There is no place where natural laws live, in fact, the laws we know is
>>>> just a process in our brains, describing (and predicting) events. They
>>>> don't live in any dimension. There is no proof of that.
>>>
>>> Isn't 'in your brain' a dimension?
>>>
>>
>> Nope. It resides safely and securely in the real world and does not have
>> its own dimension where ideal and laws live.
>
> So where does a computer program reside?

In a simple case, it resides in a computer.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 09:33, D wrote:
>> I believe the phenomenon of religion has a common, personal "core", and
>> that after the original inspired founder was gone, the path to using his
>> teachings as a way to power starts.
>>
>> Once it becomes institutionalized, all the deep, meaningful and personal
>> experiences get lost and you just get the ossified, formalized remains
>> left.
>
> Was Moses a person in divine contact with God, or a very smart and wise Jew
> who chipped away on some stone tablets, told the tribes 'these are Gods
> Words' and thereby created a morality that allowed laws to be divine rather
> than man made?
>
> My knowledge of friends of the Hebrew persuasion suggest to me the latter.
> :-)

The latter! Although I can accept that he perhaps did it in a trance, and
fooled himself into believing his own trick. ;)

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 08/12/2024 22:38, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 12:15:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Isn't 'in your brain' a dimension?
>>
>> Not unless you consider various electrochemical processes a dimension.
>> There ain't no there there.
>>
> Well there you are starting with that assumption, so its circular reasoning.
>
> 'There ain't no there, there', is pure metaphysical faith.
>
> I am simply not so sure...
>

Well, note the unless. So my interpretation is that the answer is "no" on
rbowmans behalf. But I'll let the expert talk, and we'll see. ;)

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 08:02, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> Seems like every time the instruments have a 10x improvement
>>   we have to create a whole new physics/cosmology.
>
> You should see what all these latest telescopes in space are revealing!.
>

Easy!

"Attack ships on fire off (the) shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams
glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate."

Jokes aside, I find the exploration of the great attractor to be very
interesting!

In 1992, much of the apparent signal of the Great Attractor was attributed
to a statistical effect called Malmquist bias.[9] In 2005, astronomers
conducting an X-ray survey of part of the sky known as the Clusters in the
Zone of Avoidance (CIZA) project reported that the Great Attractor was
actually only one tenth the mass that scientists had originally estimated.
The survey also confirmed earlier theories that the Milky Way galaxy is in
fact being pulled toward a much more massive cluster of galaxies near the
Shapley Supercluster, which lies beyond the Great Attractor, and which is
called the Shapley Attractor.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 12:37:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I think you have never been exposed to the Indian art of story telling.
> Read Salman Rushdies 'Haroun and the Sea of Stories'...

iirc I took a run at 'The Satanic Verses' but couldn't get any traction.
while I can understand the endless repetitions as an aid to verbal
transmission it does get old in the sutras.

> He arrived at an Eastern view of the world from first principles Quite a
> feat.

I think he remarked that when he finally encountered Buddhism it looked a
lot like home.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 21:39:04 +0100, D wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 08/12/2024 20:50, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/12/2024 10:48, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 07/12/2024 21:48, D wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 07/12/2024 16:39, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>> So therefore, metaphysics doesn't really exist, except as
>>>>>>>>> thought forms to make us feel better (if we need that), in which
>>>>>>>>> case it's just a bunch of nice stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well you are starting to make clear a completely metaphysical
>>>>>>>> position here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you mean by 'really exist' ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With not exist, I mean s an unprovable, ideal reality separate
>>>>>>> from the material world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok like the place where 'natural laws' live?
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no place where natural laws live, in fact, the laws we know
>>>>> is just a process in our brains, describing (and predicting) events.
>>>>> They don't live in any dimension. There is no proof of that.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't 'in your brain' a dimension?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Nope. It resides safely and securely in the real world and does not
>>> have its own dimension where ideal and laws live.
>>
>> So where does a computer program reside?
>
> In a simple case, it resides in a computer.

https://eater.net/6502

In the first video he uses a modern static 6502 that can single step and
an Arduino as a sort of logic analyzer. He uses resistors to tie the data
lines either high or low. On a restart the 6502 runs a couple of
instructions then jumps to an address to start reading the program. The
resistors on the data lines form the bit pattern for a noop. The 6502
dutifully performs a noop, increments the address, and reads the data
lines, which are another noop. Rinse and repeat.

Where is the program?

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 12:42:02 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 08:02, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> Are these 'ancient
>>   galaxies' real, or just the ass-end view of nearer galaxies ?   🙂
>
> They are just pixels on a CCD.🙂

A few years ago I visited Kitt Peak. I should have known better but there
isn't much in the way of telescopes like those used by backyard
astronomers. The star attractions are the two big radio telescopes but
even the Mayall 4 meter telescope hosts the DESI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Energy_Spectroscopic_Instrument

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 21:44:32 +0100, D wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 08/12/2024 22:38, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 12:15:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Isn't 'in your brain' a dimension?
>>>
>>> Not unless you consider various electrochemical processes a dimension.
>>> There ain't no there there.
>>>
>> Well there you are starting with that assumption, so its circular
>> reasoning.
>>
>> 'There ain't no there, there', is pure metaphysical faith.
>>
>> I am simply not so sure...
>>
>>
> Well, note the unless. So my interpretation is that the answer is "no"
> on rbowmans behalf. But I'll let the expert talk, and we'll see. ;)

Not going down the rabbit, or maybe turtle, hole. Poking around in brains
hasn't found anything but basic neurophysiology, electrochemical
interaction between the dendrites and axons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
A_logical_calculus_of_the_ideas_immanent_in_nervous_activity

We've come a long way from that model.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 11:56:56 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 08/12/2024 21:13, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 12:04:17 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> Did the second attempt give you enlightenment or a new depth to life?
>>> I've never touched any other drugs besides coffee, tea and alcohol,
>>> but I did have a spontaneous explosion of love once when I was 15.
>>> I've had a few mild echoes of that experience, but never anything
>>> close to the strength of it since.
>>
>> No. I don't remember much of it other than it wasn't a completely
>> paranoid experience like the first one.
>
> Many people 'don't remember' . Its cognitive dissonance. The ones that
> do, tell an interestng story.

Some are better story tellers. Those who use psychedelics in search of a
transformative may be predisposed to finding it.

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 09/12/2024 15:28, Rich wrote:
>> ndeed,*very* much so. Which is why "enterprise" and "corporate" IT
>> environments are so rabid about having "support". "Support" is their
>> buzzword for "someone else to blame so we can cover our assess when the
>> shit hits the fan".
>
> LOL.
>
> Most support contracts are not worth wiping your bottom on.
>
> They are just designed to make money out of.
>
> The sub prime mortgage crisis was typical of such.
>
> "We have shit loads of bad debt that we cant offload"
> "Well package it up with insurance against failure and sell it as A1
> guaranteed debt then"
> "But what will happen if the insurance companies can't cover it"
> "Oh that will be the government's problem, not ours"
>
>
> http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/story.jpg

Nice...

Although I doubt that anyone actually asked the "what if" question
about the insurance companies in the run-up to the explosion.

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 09/12/2024 09:33, D wrote:
>> I believe the phenomenon of religion has a common, personal "core",
>> and that after the original inspired founder was gone, the path to
>> using his teachings as a way to power starts.
>>
>> Once it becomes institutionalized, all the deep, meaningful and
>> personal experiences get lost and you just get the ossified,
>> formalized remains left.
>
> Was Moses a person in divine contact with God, or a very smart and
> wise Jew who chipped away on some stone tablets, told the tribes
> 'these are Gods Words' and thereby created a morality that allowed
> laws to be divine rather than man made?

What better way is there to get the "tribe" to not question the "moral
laws" than to convince them that their God explicitly deemed these so.
Who are you, lowly tribe member, to question the "word of God".....

One just have to be successful in the process of selling of the 'laws'
as "divine from God" to the tribe members.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 10:29:58 +0100, D wrote:

> In autumn, the leaves on the ground are out to get you, and in winter,
> the ice, in spring, it's the stubborn treacherous remains. In summer at
> least,
> we are safe!

I'm not a very good passenger. One fall a friend was driving and I didn't
feel comfortable. Rather than yelling 'Slow down!' I mentioned that wet
leaves on the road were as treacherous as ice. The hint didn't work and we
were soon going down the road backwards at about 70 mph before becoming
airborne. Alfa Romeos don't do well upside down. I still have scars from
that one.

It hasn't snowed yet but we're in a fairly typical winter pattern, high
30s or low 40s in the day and 20s at night. Perfect conditions to reflow
the ice every day. The trails get icy and stay that way and the less
traveled roads can have all sorts of surprises.

There aren't many hardwood species but Ponderosa pines loose a percentage
of their needles in the fall. The long shed needles form a thatch that's
good for skiing if you're not careful. Larch loose their needles
completely but they're short enough to not be hazardous.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 10:33:06 +0100, D wrote:

> I find it interesting how in our modern and enlightened times (say from
> the 1950s and onward) there's been a "merge" with eastern spirituality
> where christian writers have "christianized" eastern meditational
> practices, and sometimes almost re-invented what the original crew you
> mentioned above did several 100 years earlier.

Prophet in his own land... iirc Thomas Merton, who was well versed in
Zen, pointed out the similarities to Christian mysticism and suggested you
didn't really need to make the 'journey to the east'.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 15:28:19 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

> Indeed, *very* much so. Which is why "enterprise" and "corporate" IT
> environments are so rabid about having "support". "Support" is their
> buzzword for "someone else to blame so we can cover our assess when the
> shit hits the fan".

An argument from our clients is Linux isn't 'supported'. When asked if
they've ever used Microsoft support, crickets.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 15:58:55 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> "We have shit loads of bad debt that we cant offload"
> "Well package it up with insurance against failure and sell it as A1
> guaranteed debt then"
> "But what will happen if the insurance companies can't cover it"
> "Oh that will be the government's problem, not ours"

I remember an article in the WSJ about the great new idea of creating a
tranche of mortgages likely to fail, peddle the derivatives, and wait for
the failure and subsequent insurance payout.

I'm not interested in the stock market or economics in general but I
thought 'this isn't going to end well.' I thought the same about the 1999
'Financial Services Modernization Act' that removed the Glass-Steagal
controls with the financiers promising they weren't going to do anything
stupid this time.

I'm not prescient nor do I claim any expertise in economics, foreign
policy, and so forth but it's depressing how often my personal analysis
proves to be correct versus the 'experts'.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 10:43:00 +0100, D wrote:

> Are you a buddhist or do you subscribe to some form of personal
> spirituality? Or is it just an intellectual interest? You seem very
> knowledgeable!

I have had a lifelong interest in Buddhism, as my bookshelf reflects. I'll
admit it stemmed from being a 10 year old beatnik wannabe. I could also
blame Kipling's 'Kim' for an interest in eastern religion. I would say
it's mostly an intellectual interest though I find much of Buddhist though
parallels my understanding of the world.

However I have the same problem as I have with Christianity. If you don't
think the world is 'dukkha', which I find similar to the concept of
original sin, salvation isn't a goal. It is the same as Schopenhauer
contra Nietzsche.

> I agree completely! I do like Schopenhauers short philosophical texts
> about everyday life (Parerga und paralipomena). Some of them make
> perfect sense and are quite approachable.

I've got Hollingdale's 'Essays and Aphorisms' that is a selection. I don't
know how complete it is. I have read that during his service in WWI Hitler
carried a copy of Schopenhauer's writings in his knapsack. I assume it was
Parerga and not the two volumes of The World.

> But his magnum opus I don't agree with at all.

For me that's back to his pessimism. I think the real person of the 'obit
anus, abit onus' quote would have been more interesting than the
intellectual. He probably had a few good rants on Hegel too.

> Nietzsche on the other hand, is much better at writing, and although I
> do not think that it is just a bunch of random aphorisms, I do believe
> there is a theme, they are quite a puzzle to fit together.
>
> Add to that, that his views changed. My favourite is the middle period
> Nietzsche who does see the promise in science and rationality.

That is more interesting than Schopenhauer. He may have done a little
polishing but he was a one trick pony, unlike Nietzsche. I'm currently re-
reading the unfinished 'Philosophy in the Tragic Age of the Greeks' that's
quite linear. Prior to that I'd reread the late works, Twilight,
Antichrist, and Ecce Homo. Next I'll redo the middle. It's been some time
since I've read 'Untimely Meditations', the others I've hit more recently.
TBH Zarathustra is my least favorite of the while corpus.

> But another thing I like about Nietzsche, at least for me, is that his
> short aphorisms serve as a spring board for me for my own reflections
> and philosophy. I find it very inspirational. The anti-christ I also
> like with its critique of institutionalized christianity and how
> damaging it has been to society.

'The Will to Power' is one my bathroom book pile. I read random selections
like some people do with the bible. I don't trust the llama as an editor
but I'm glad she undertook the project.

Antichrist reminds me of the Jefferson Bible and some of the newer
projects. Pauline Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus. I think by
then Nietzsche felt bad about sniping at poor old Strauss.