On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 11:03:28 +0100, D wrote:
>
>
>> Haha. Yes, Kaufmann is the name I've seen pop up the most when I checked
>> Nietzsche translations. On the other hand, I am fairly fluent in german
>> when it comes to reading, so maybe I should aim higher and actually read
>> the original? =)
>
> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/7205/pg7205-images.html
>
> Du grosses Gestirn! Was wäre dein Glück, wenn du nicht Die hättest,
> welchen du leuchtest!
>
> Common has
>
> "Thou great star! What would be thy happiness if thou hadst not those for
> whom thou shinest!"
>
> Kaufmann has
>
> "You great star, what would your happiness be had you not those for whom
> you shine?"

Interesting comparison! It highlight my lack of german skills. My initial
translation, would be "You great star, what would your happiness be, if
you did not have those who you shine on". My feeling here is that "for
whom you shine" implies that the sun exists for the people, but my initial
translation would be that the people exist for the sun.

Now I'm very curious to read some original and compare it with my
Gutenberg downloads.

> One criticism of Kaufmann is he rearranges Nietzsche's idiosyncratic
> punctuation. The newer translations mostly follow Kaufmann, some with
> slightly different sentence structure or wording. After all when you're
> doing the 15th translation you need to do something differently.
>
> The real question is what effect was Nietzsche striving for? His father
> was a Lutheran minister so he had plenty of exposure to Luther's bible
> translation. Was he trying to adopt the tone or parody it?

In some caes perhaps parody, but I think in others, he might have borrowed
for dramatic effect? One thing is clear, I find him to be one of the best
writers of many philosophers. Compare it with some modern analytic
philosophy and it's not even the same universe. Modern philosophy texts
can be bone dry.

> While the archaic language can put people off Common does capture the feel
> of du/sie and behind that the attempt by bible translators to capture the
> original singular/plural pronoun distinctions.

For me that fades into the background eventually. Same with reading the
Iliad or Odyssey, at first it's a bit annoying, but after a while it
flows.

> Personally, I'll go for the readable versions. I'd never read the New
> Testament due to the traditional two column layout and the somewhat
> stilted language. Oddly one of the things issued in boot camp was "Good
> News for Modern Man", and I finally got around to reading it. Bible people
> will argue about the dynamic translation but at least I read it. Of course
> there wasn't much else to read besides the green book with its wisdom
> about which side of a Claymore gets pointed to whoever you're trying to
> kill.

Ah, so you were a military man? Somehow I get the image of a Rambo who
retired to the wildernes!

Or maybe we're in Airwolf territory? Or perhaps A-team? ;)

>
>
>>
>>> The question is if anything more complicated than Schwedenkrimi can
>>> really be translated. In one of Heidegger's more accessible essays he
>>> questions if we can adequately translate Greek with the nuances and
>>> associations the words had in the original.
>>
>> This is very commonly thought and communicated in russian and chinese
>> culture. The conclusion is of course, the russiand and/or chinese
>> culture is so sublime it can never be translated or understood by
>> western barbarians.
>
>

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2024-12-12, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:33:16 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>
>>> In a discussion on Quora about the ambiguities of Bible translations,
>>> Franklin Veaux said somethiong like "Imagine a translator 2000 years
>>> from now trying to figure out the difference between a butt dial and a
>>> booty call".
>>
>> That's about right. One of my favorites is a runic inscription, ALU in the
>> Roman alphabet. It shows up in a number of places but it isn't clear what
>> it means. My friends who went to Catholic schools always put
>>
>> M
>> J J
>>
>> on the top of their homework, essays, and test papers. Good luck figuring
>> that out in 1000 years.
>
> Interesting. I never went near a Catholic school, but around grade 5 or 6
> a classmate, Mads Jensen, wrote a monogram like the above, except that the
> tops of the Js were attached to the legs of the M.

I think it might be related to the illuminati. Mads seems to be a powerful
guy. I would be careful if I were you! ;)

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/10/24 4:06 PM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 10 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:07:36 +0100, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahh... I lost a business deal with the government yesterday, and this
>>>> old trick was specifically the reason. The IT-department was very
>>>> pro-windows,
>
> Then not worth suffering for ....

This is the truth. If their PoC fails miserably I will be very happy. They
said we're the first choice if that happens, but I doubt they will stress
test their crappy system enough to experience any problems. The windows
guys will make sure of that, so they don't risk getting "dirty linux" on
their hands. ;)

>>>> and with my solution, they had to manage linux and the hardware, but not
>>>> the solution on top. With the competitor, they promised them that they'd
>>>> take care of everything and that they would never have to see a
>>>> terminal, and there was much rejoicing among the windows people.
>>>
>>> We had two sites that used Linux on the servers although the workstations
>>> were Windows. In both cases the administrator was a Linux fan. When they
>>> left or moved up the ladder the servers were moved to Windows.
>>
>> Yep... a story that is sadly waaaaay too common! And todays story... some
>> of the students a colleague of mine is currently teaching networking
>> thought the exam was too difficult, so they told the school they will
>> refuse taking it, until it is made easier. ;)
>
> Then FAIL them all ... no mercy.

Oh, I wish! Sadly, as per the below, the economics of the school system
won't allow me to do that. I am hoping that we can at least fail 4-8 of
the worst students, so that they quit. THe wonderful irony is, that if
that happens, yes, the school will be angry due to lost revenue, but the
ratings of me and my teacher colleagues will sky rocket, since the
complainers are gone! =)

An old customer of mine once told me this...

It is so strange. Your program fails the most nr of people, and has the
most nr of people leave the program. This is bad. However... when we look
at if the students get jobs after their education, your program has a 100%
job ratio, and all of your students get salaries above the average for
their age group. This is so strange!

They could seriously not connect the dots between motivated, passionate
students who _learn_ and the attractiveness of employing them!

Today the battle continues...

There are 3 participants in the current battle. Me and my teacher, the
administrator and the manager.

The administrator ordered us to lower the requirements of the exam, since
the goal is to have everyone pass (obviously the goal is not to have them
learn something). My teacher refused, and anger was boiling.

So we had a meeting with the manager, the administrator, and us, and I
manage to persuade them that there shall be no lowering of the standards,
but they will get (for free) a few hours of extra teaching time.

We agreed and the school was going to communicate it to the students.

What do you think the school communicated? Hold on to your socks...

The administrator told the class:

Hello class, I really tried, but sadly your teacher refused. I'm so sorry
and I tried hard, but you know how they are.

It is wonderful to be a teacher when the school has your back! ;)

>> The key here is that each students brings the school a nice profit of 8000
>> EUR per year, so the threat of a student dropping out very often softens
>> the heart of the school, to the great frustration of the teachers. =/
>
>
> Ah ... Gen-X/A2 ... it it ain't easy/zero-IQ then it's
> not worth attempting :-)
>
> Look up the US term "DEI" .....

You made me throw up on my keyboard!

> The SCHOOL - well - the the profit per-student likely
> dictates its sympathies .....

This is the truth! I'm as much of a capitalis as the next guy, but this
unholy public/private partnership where they get paid per student,
regardless of knowledge is just absurd!

Next year, the government is changing the rules. Schools will be penalized
for students quitting a program, and will be rewarded the more students
who pass.

I think we can wave good bye to exams in the future. ;)

It is sad though, because people who should not be there, will be there
and they will waste 2 years of their lives. =(

> Somewhere, at least for now, there WILL be some who
> actually want to learn/practice the Black Arts of
> Linux/Unix and do-it-yourself programming. HIRE THEM !

A business partner of mine never hires vocational school students due to
my horror stories. He only hires them _if_ he has been the teacher. Then
you can handpick the students who are passionate and actually enjoy IT.

> Kinda worried about BEYOND Now .....
>
> As some point the "AI" will be called upon to do
> it all. Then, for people, it's all MAGIC afterwards.
> NO comprehension of what/why/how.

I see it every day when students instead of learning just take tasks and
projects and iterate them through an AI. It's very embarassing when we do
code reviews.

> I speak as an oracle here ... just watch ......
>
> SOON NOW - the "AI" will be giving advice/code on
> how to improve the "AI". Humans won't Get It - and
> will just sign-off on the upgrades in hope of
> more $$$. THAT ought to be interesting :-)
>
> A little bit of advice ... while you can ... get
> a fairly good general-purpose PC and install one
> of the BSDs. OpenIndiana/Solaris is maybe an
> offbeat alt (it's OK) and even the odd Plan-9
> can be useful (though intended for distributed
> systems). This will give you fair access while
> kinda circumventing the "AI"s and spy apps and
> such for awhile.
>

On 12 Dec 2024 08:22:58 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 03:07:45 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
> > Had an EEEpc ... great little unit ! Then I dropped it off a
> > ladder while aligning a security camera :-(
>
> I've still got mine. The OEM OS wouldn't handle WPA2 so I sidelined
> it. Earlier this year I got it up and running with Q4OS after a
> couple of failed installs when it ran out of room. The Trinity
> desktop is lightweight and being a KDE derivative has the Windows XP
> feel the original Linux had.
>
> I jumped on it when it first came out as something small and cheap
> enough to stuff into a motorcycle saddlebag.

Still running my Eee 904HA* as a portable typewriter - great battery
life, a usable keyboard, and enough horsepower for the job XD

* (The second one I've owned - the first slid off the roof of my car
on the freeway entrance ramp when I absent-mindedly left it there one
day. 35 MPH onto the asphalt and the hinge didn't even bust - *damn*
but they made those things little tanks!)

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:21:18 +0100, D wrote:

> In some caes perhaps parody, but I think in others, he might have
> borrowed for dramatic effect? One thing is clear, I find him to be one
> of the best writers of many philosophers. Compare it with some modern
> analytic philosophy and it's not even the same universe. Modern
> philosophy texts can be bone dry.

While he ultimately disagreed with him, Nietzsche learned a lot from
Schopenhauer. They both are readable. Kant's answer to Hume isn't and
Hegel, well...

It's been a long time since I've read Russell, Moore, Wittgenstein, etc. I
chewed on Principia in high school and tried to read some of the others
later in life.

Part of the problem is I realized my brain doesn't work that way. I've
made a living employing logic all my life but it just 'happens'.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:37:42 +0100, D wrote:

> I think it might be related to the illuminati. Mads seems to be a
> powerful guy. I would be careful if I were you!

Ah, the Illuminati. While sorting out books to discard this summer I re-
read some of Robert Anton Wilson's stuff. I surreptitiously leave the
books in Little Free Library boxes to warp the minds of future
generations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Free_Library

There's an app for that... It gives the coordinates so I can find fresh
territory instead of stumbling over them. Generally I only leave books but
I walked by one Monday with a hardcover C.J. Box novel that I'll have to
revisit.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:21:18 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> In some caes perhaps parody, but I think in others, he might have
>> borrowed for dramatic effect? One thing is clear, I find him to be one
>> of the best writers of many philosophers. Compare it with some modern
>> analytic philosophy and it's not even the same universe. Modern
>> philosophy texts can be bone dry.
>
> While he ultimately disagreed with him, Nietzsche learned a lot from
> Schopenhauer. They both are readable. Kant's answer to Hume isn't and
> Hegel, well...

I find Schopenhauer opaque and too negative, and way too wordy. Kant and
Hume I never read in the original but only filtered through Coplestones
history of philosophy and did not feel like I needed the originals.

> It's been a long time since I've read Russell, Moore, Wittgenstein, etc. I
> chewed on Principia in high school and tried to read some of the others
> later in life.

Russell is not too bad. He has some nice essays. But his technical work is
not my cup of tea.

> Part of the problem is I realized my brain doesn't work that way. I've
> made a living employing logic all my life but it just 'happens'.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:37:42 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I think it might be related to the illuminati. Mads seems to be a
>> powerful guy. I would be careful if I were you!
>
> Ah, the Illuminati. While sorting out books to discard this summer I re-
> read some of Robert Anton Wilson's stuff. I surreptitiously leave the
> books in Little Free Library boxes to warp the minds of future
> generations.

How come you're getting rid of them? I cannot bear giving books away. They
become friends, much to my wifes great annoyance. ;)

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Free_Library

Good idea!

> There's an app for that... It gives the coordinates so I can find fresh
> territory instead of stumbling over them. Generally I only leave books but
> I walked by one Monday with a hardcover C.J. Box novel that I'll have to
> revisit.
>

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 21:31:39 +0100, D wrote:

> I find Schopenhauer opaque and too negative, and way too wordy. Kant and
> Hume I never read in the original but only filtered through Coplestones
> history of philosophy and did not feel like I needed the originals.

Schopenhauer is the original Debbie Downer. In Hollingdale's introduction
to the 'Essays and Aphorisms' selection he theorizes the philosophy
reflects the personality which was molded by events. The family business
went bankrupt and it was a struggle for him to get his money. However he
was stubborn and persistent, making out better than the other creditors.

Then there was his fling at teaching when he scheduled his class in the
same time slot as Hegel's. Nobody came. He could have rescheduled but
chose to resign.

'Will' didn't fly off the shelves. His mother was an author in her own
right. He said that his works would be around long after hers were gone.
She replied with something like, 'Yeah the entire first edition will still
be unsold.' They didn't get along well.

It's been years but iirc Hume's 'An Enquiry Concerning Human
Understanding' was quite readable. His first attempt 'Treatise of Human
Nature' was stillborn so he tried again.

Hume triggered Kant's rebuttal and Schopenhauer thought highly of him. I
think he gets mentioned once by Nietzsche lumped with the 'English
physiologists'.

I don't think I made it through Copleston's entire History but I
definitely remember the cheap paperback volumes. I did make it as far a
Zeno, that's for sure.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 21:33:00 +0100, D wrote:

> How come you're getting rid of them? I cannot bear giving books away.
> They become friends, much to my wifes great annoyance.

https://www.thespruce.com/swedish-death-cleaning-4801461

It is difficult and the problem is I tend to want to read them again to
make sure. Some of them I'll never read again. For example about 30 years
ago I was on a Neville Shute kick. I enjoyed them at the time but I don't
need to revisit them. Many of the Buddhism books satisfied my curiosity
about various schools but I don't need to revisit. The Lotus sutra is
highly thought of in Nichiren school to the point that the practical level
it comes down to contemplating a gohonzon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gohonzon

and chanting 'Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō' or 'Glory to the Dharma of the Lotus
Sutra'. The Lotus sutra itself is self-promoting and suggests the best way
to acquire merit is to copy and distribute it. Don't need to know any
more.

Lately almost everything I buy is for the Kindle. That does not require
building more shelves at least.

D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> It is so strange. Your program fails the most nr of people, and has
> the most nr of people leave the program. This is bad. However...
> when we look at if the students get jobs after their education, your
> program has a 100% job ratio, and all of your students get salaries
> above the average for their age group. This is so strange!

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary
depends on his not understanding it.” ― Upton Sinclair
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21810-it-is-difficult-to-get-a-man-to-understand-something

This is why college success measures should be based upon how
employable their graduates are. Gone (or seriously reduced in size)
would be all the degree programs that don't produce gainfully
employable graduates.

Instead the measure is how much student loan money they can hoover out
of each student during the student's time on campus. And by that
measure they are all resounding successes.

On 12/12/24 3:22 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 03:07:45 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> Had an EEEpc ... great little unit ! Then I dropped it off a ladder
>> while aligning a security camera :-(
>
> I've still got mine. The OEM OS wouldn't handle WPA2 so I sidelined it.
> Earlier this year I got it up and running with Q4OS after a couple of
> failed installs when it ran out of room. The Trinity desktop is
> lightweight and being a KDE derivative has the Windows XP feel the
> original Linux had.
>
> I jumped on it when it first came out as something small and cheap enough
> to stuff into a motorcycle saddlebag.

Exactly - and I've had many motorcycles.

Don't/won't own a 'smartphone' - and at my age it's
hard to focus on tiny text. Small laptops are ideal.
Sometimes people tell me to just use Their App for
some kind of online services ... I pull out my
cheapo flip phone, end of discussion :-)

I see flips have made a COMEBACK. There's an increasing
segment who wants 'simple' and to-the-point without all
the BS. The lid over the main screen is a big plus too.

The EEEpc was affordable and JUST big enough and the
performance was 'ok'. Used it for many years. Linux made
it MUCH better and faster. Alas did not make it immune
to gravity .......

I think I made a VM out of Q4OS but never really did much
with it. Desktops - LXDE if possible, XFCE if not. Like
them lean and mean without 'eye candy' and such crap.

Anyway, today, there are a number of lower-end Dells and
HPs that are fair replacements for the EEEpc. With Win
they suck, with Lin they LIVE. Had to replace the batt
in one of my Dells recently though - the thing was
getting WAY too hot during charging and would never
quite fully charge. However the batt was fairly cheap,
WITH the Dell name, and EZ to replace.

On 12/12/24 11:56 PM, Rich wrote:
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> It is so strange. Your program fails the most nr of people, and has
>> the most nr of people leave the program. This is bad. However...
>> when we look at if the students get jobs after their education, your
>> program has a 100% job ratio, and all of your students get salaries
>> above the average for their age group. This is so strange!
>
> “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary
> depends on his not understanding it.” ― Upton Sinclair
> https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21810-it-is-difficult-to-get-a-man-to-understand-something

Wow ... he understood this SO far back !

But then there have been bureaucracies, and pointy-haired
bosses, since antiquity ...

> This is why college success measures should be based upon how
> employable their graduates are. Gone (or seriously reduced in size)
> would be all the degree programs that don't produce gainfully
> employable graduates.
>
> Instead the measure is how much student loan money they can hoover out
> of each student during the student's time on campus. And by that
> measure they are all resounding successes.

MONEY, rather than MERIT, has always been important - but
I think it's become SO much the over-riding factor now
that The Future is seriously endangered.

Read back to the early universities. MOST students were
just fops, kids of Rich Guys. They were sent there for
'prestige' reasons, NOT to actually LEARN anything.
Indeed it was considered pedestrian for 'gentlemen' TO
learn anything. We're talking 1300s/1400s here ... the
pattern was set .......

As for the know-nothing kiddies getting high salaries ...
maybe think of it in 'evolutionary' terms. They will
destroy their employers, then move on and destroy even
more employers. In the end, moronic employers will
be selected-against :-)

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 01:55:35 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> I think I made a VM out of Q4OS but never really did much with it.
> Desktops - LXDE if possible, XFCE if not. Like them lean and mean
> without 'eye candy' and such crap.

I've got an old Acer 'netbook' that was the generation after eeePC as the
industry tried to sort out tablets, fat phones, and so on. It had XP but
this spring I went to Lubuntu. That distro did use LXDE originally but now
it's LXQt. LXDE is still around but the original people moved to Qt when
GTK development was lagging.

The only problem I had was with the Broadcom wifi. I used a Panda USB
dongle long enough to get the Broadcom drivers so now it's fine.

When we first started looking at tablets at work we got a couple of Acer
10" since they were easy to set up for development. After playing with
them I got the 7" version. If I was going to carry a 10" I might as well
use the 11" netbook with a real keyboard.

When 3G was phasing out I went from a flip to a smart phone. I don't make
that many phone calls but I have a couple of apps for geocaching, fitbit,
and slack. Also I need it for 2FA. The company VPN uses Windows
Authenticator.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 02:20:53 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Wow ... he understood this SO far back !

Sinclair definitely got it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brass_Check

He was an old school socialist but the fake news stories, suppression of
events, and so forth accurately describes today's journalism. He also
wrote 'Oil' about the Teapot Dome scandal, some of which was used in the
movie 'There Will Be Blood'.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 21:31:39 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I find Schopenhauer opaque and too negative, and way too wordy. Kant and
>> Hume I never read in the original but only filtered through Coplestones
>> history of philosophy and did not feel like I needed the originals.
>
> Schopenhauer is the original Debbie Downer. In Hollingdale's introduction
> to the 'Essays and Aphorisms' selection he theorizes the philosophy
> reflects the personality which was molded by events. The family business
> went bankrupt and it was a struggle for him to get his money. However he
> was stubborn and persistent, making out better than the other creditors.
>
> Then there was his fling at teaching when he scheduled his class in the
> same time slot as Hegel's. Nobody came. He could have rescheduled but
> chose to resign.
>
> 'Will' didn't fly off the shelves. His mother was an author in her own
> right. He said that his works would be around long after hers were gone.
> She replied with something like, 'Yeah the entire first edition will still
> be unsold.' They didn't get along well.
>
> It's been years but iirc Hume's 'An Enquiry Concerning Human
> Understanding' was quite readable. His first attempt 'Treatise of Human
> Nature' was stillborn so he tried again.
>
> Hume triggered Kant's rebuttal and Schopenhauer thought highly of him. I
> think he gets mentioned once by Nietzsche lumped with the 'English
> physiologists'.
>
> I don't think I made it through Copleston's entire History but I
> definitely remember the cheap paperback volumes. I did make it as far a
> Zeno, that's for sure.
>

Very interesting! And wasn't there, as was so often the case among
philosophers, the fact that Schopenhauer wasn't the most popular man with
the ladies as well?

Nietzsche certainly seemed to derive a lot of energy from a broken heart.

Zeno? Well, it does sound you made quite an attack on the first book out
of 12! ;) My least favourite part of that series is the middle ages and
the christian philosophers and theologians. For some reason, very, very
uninteresting to me. But greek, yes, rome, yes, then nothing, up until the
enlightenment, when things start to become interesting again.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 21:33:00 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> How come you're getting rid of them? I cannot bear giving books away.
>> They become friends, much to my wifes great annoyance.
>
> https://www.thespruce.com/swedish-death-cleaning-4801461

Fascinating! I've lived a few decades in sweden, but never heard of this
concept! You learn something new every day!

> It is difficult and the problem is I tend to want to read them again to
> make sure. Some of them I'll never read again. For example about 30 years
> ago I was on a Neville Shute kick. I enjoyed them at the time but I don't
> need to revisit them. Many of the Buddhism books satisfied my curiosity
> about various schools but I don't need to revisit. The Lotus sutra is
> highly thought of in Nichiren school to the point that the practical level
> it comes down to contemplating a gohonzon
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gohonzon
>
> and chanting 'Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō' or 'Glory to the Dharma of the Lotus

Did you try the chant? Did you get any good effects? I always find that
the easter orthodox christian tradition of the jesus prayer and hesychams
aligns beautifully with mantra yoga.

> Sutra'. The Lotus sutra itself is self-promoting and suggests the best way
> to acquire merit is to copy and distribute it. Don't need to know any
> more.

Hah! An early example of a nice mind hack!

> Lately almost everything I buy is for the Kindle. That does not require
> building more shelves at least.

Since I like classics, and since I found the trinity of annas-archive.org,
libgen and z-lib, my kindling has exploded! I still do buy the physical
copy of a book from time to time if I really like it.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, Rich wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> It is so strange. Your program fails the most nr of people, and has
>> the most nr of people leave the program. This is bad. However...
>> when we look at if the students get jobs after their education, your
>> program has a 100% job ratio, and all of your students get salaries
>> above the average for their age group. This is so strange!
>
> “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary
> depends on his not understanding it.” ― Upton Sinclair
> https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21810-it-is-difficult-to-get-a-man-to-understand-something
>
> This is why college success measures should be based upon how
> employable their graduates are. Gone (or seriously reduced in size)
> would be all the degree programs that don't produce gainfully
> employable graduates.
>
> Instead the measure is how much student loan money they can hoover out
> of each student during the student's time on campus. And by that
> measure they are all resounding successes.

Amen!

It is sad that the elite universities have a monopoly on networking.
That's basically the only value you get out of those programs.

If it weren't for the networking part, any smart young man could get a
really good education with all the free books and course material that's
out on the internet, except (I guess) for practical disciplines that
requires extensive labs.

But computer science should be perfectly possible to reach a very high
level by yourself using only your laptop and the internet. But you won't
get the networking and connections though.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/12/24 3:22 AM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 03:07:45 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> Had an EEEpc ... great little unit ! Then I dropped it off a ladder
>>> while aligning a security camera :-(
>>
>> I've still got mine. The OEM OS wouldn't handle WPA2 so I sidelined it.
>> Earlier this year I got it up and running with Q4OS after a couple of
>> failed installs when it ran out of room. The Trinity desktop is
>> lightweight and being a KDE derivative has the Windows XP feel the
>> original Linux had.
>>
>> I jumped on it when it first came out as something small and cheap enough
>> to stuff into a motorcycle saddlebag.
>
> Exactly - and I've had many motorcycles.
>
> Don't/won't own a 'smartphone' - and at my age it's
> hard to focus on tiny text. Small laptops are ideal.
> Sometimes people tell me to just use Their App for
> some kind of online services ... I pull out my
> cheapo flip phone, end of discussion :-)

I'm not even your age, but I agree completely. I have a nokia 110 4g, and
it is perfect! Lasts me about 1.5 weeks without charging it.

The only drawback is that I cannot use Uber so I pay 3-4x for a taxi the
regular way. =(

> I see flips have made a COMEBACK. There's an increasing
> segment who wants 'simple' and to-the-point without all
> the BS. The lid over the main screen is a big plus too.

The ones that are appearing where I am are sadly enormous "fake" flip
phones that ru nfull blown android or kaios. Very crappy products and
contain just as much surveillance tech as a smart phone.

Nokia sold their dumdphone business to HMD, and I suspect HMD will shut it
down within a few years.

The only thing I miss on my Nokia is wifi hotspot, which is convenient
when travelling, but it is not a must have feature.

> The EEEpc was affordable and JUST big enough and the
> performance was 'ok'. Used it for many years. Linux made
> it MUCH better and faster. Alas did not make it immune
> to gravity .......
>
> I think I made a VM out of Q4OS but never really did much
> with it. Desktops - LXDE if possible, XFCE if not. Like
> them lean and mean without 'eye candy' and such crap.
>
> Anyway, today, there are a number of lower-end Dells and
> HPs that are fair replacements for the EEEpc. With Win

Are there any ones at around 10" to 11"? I loved my macbook air 11.6".
Perfect size for me. Sadly it was cancelled, so now I have a 14" ASUS,
which is really a bit too big for me.

> they suck, with Lin they LIVE. Had to replace the batt
> in one of my Dells recently though - the thing was
> getting WAY too hot during charging and would never
> quite fully charge. However the batt was fairly cheap,
> WITH the Dell name, and EZ to replace.
>

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/12/24 11:56 PM, Rich wrote:
>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>> It is so strange. Your program fails the most nr of people, and has
>>> the most nr of people leave the program. This is bad. However...
>>> when we look at if the students get jobs after their education, your
>>> program has a 100% job ratio, and all of your students get salaries
>>> above the average for their age group. This is so strange!
>>
>> “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary
>> depends on his not understanding it.” ― Upton Sinclair
>> https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21810-it-is-difficult-to-get-a-man-to-understand-something
>
> Wow ... he understood this SO far back !
>
> But then there have been bureaucracies, and pointy-haired
> bosses, since antiquity ...
>
>> This is why college success measures should be based upon how
>> employable their graduates are. Gone (or seriously reduced in size)
>> would be all the degree programs that don't produce gainfully
>> employable graduates.
>>
>> Instead the measure is how much student loan money they can hoover out
>> of each student during the student's time on campus. And by that
>> measure they are all resounding successes.
>
> MONEY, rather than MERIT, has always been important - but
> I think it's become SO much the over-riding factor now
> that The Future is seriously endangered.
>
> Read back to the early universities. MOST students were
> just fops, kids of Rich Guys. They were sent there for
> 'prestige' reasons, NOT to actually LEARN anything.
> Indeed it was considered pedestrian for 'gentlemen' TO
> learn anything. We're talking 1300s/1400s here ... the
> pattern was set .......
>
> As for the know-nothing kiddies getting high salaries ...
> maybe think of it in 'evolutionary' terms. They will
> destroy their employers, then move on and destroy even
> more employers. In the end, moronic employers will
> be selected-against :-)

What's happening is that many companies are just not hiring from
vocational schools any longer because the quality of the students is too
low.

I sometimes hire from them, but _only_ when I have been the teacher. That
allows me to pin point exactly who the passionate ones are, and those can
be very powerful allies, at a low initial salary cost!

But if I would not be the teacher, I would never dare to do that, since
Gen Z, and especially Gen Z from vocational schools are completely crazy
in most cases.

Have a business partner who thinks exactly the same. He announced a linux
sys admin job a few weeks back, and got 100 replies.

1/3 he threw away because those were indians without swedish knowledge.
1/3 were people about to retire who just want to wait until they are 65,
and he wants someone long term, and not someone who disappear after 1 or 2
years, and 1/3 were from vocational schools, that he by default throws
away. The search continues!

On 12/12/2024 20:31, D wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:21:18 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> In some caes perhaps parody, but I think in others, he might have
>>> borrowed for dramatic effect? One thing is clear, I find him to be one
>>> of the best writers of many philosophers. Compare it with some modern
>>> analytic philosophy and it's not even the same universe. Modern
>>> philosophy texts can be bone dry.
>>
>> While he ultimately disagreed with him, Nietzsche learned a lot from
>> Schopenhauer. They both are readable. Kant's answer to Hume isn't and
>> Hegel, well...
>
> I find Schopenhauer opaque and too negative, and way too wordy. Kant and
> Hume I never read in the original but only filtered through Coplestones
> history of philosophy and did not feel like I needed the originals.
>
Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer

>> It's been a long time since I've read Russell, Moore, Wittgenstein,
>> etc. I
>> chewed on Principia in high school and tried to read some of the others
>> later in life.
>
> Russell is not too bad. He has some nice essays. But his technical work
> is not my cup of tea.
>
>> Part of the problem is I realized my brain doesn't work that way. I've
>> made a living employing logic all my life but it just 'happens'.
>
>

--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 02:20:53 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> Wow ... he understood this SO far back !
>
> Sinclair definitely got it.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brass_Check
>
> He was an old school socialist but the fake news stories, suppression of
> events, and so forth accurately describes today's journalism. He also
> wrote 'Oil' about the Teapot Dome scandal, some of which was used in the
> movie 'There Will Be Blood'.
>

Good movie. I enjoyed it!

On 13/12/2024 10:41, D wrote:
> Have a business partner who thinks exactly the same. He announced a
> linux sys admin job a few weeks back, and got 100 replies.
>
> 1/3 he threw away because those were indians without swedish knowledge.
> 1/3 were people about to retire who just want to wait until they are 65,
> and he wants someone long term, and not someone who disappear after 1 or
> 2 years, and 1/3 were from vocational schools, that he by default throws
> away. The search continues!

In my day the vocational schools produced very high quality people who
took practical approaches to problem solving.

One guy couldn't really code, so he searched the internet and asked
questions and arrived at working solutions that way. Respect.

Another set were bright people with any degree in STEM except computer
science.

And a final set were wannabe computer geeks who read all the manuals and
explored every single drop down menu entry and ended up rebuilding
windows every week.

Very useful at rebuilding customers wrecked windows installs...

--
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

On 13 Dec 2024 08:30:53 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> Also I need it for 2FA. The company VPN uses Windows
> Authenticator.

FWIW, it looks like WinAuth will run under WINE; that's been my go-to
for any MS Authenticator nonsense. There's probably a native *nix GUI
application for this out there somewhere, as well.

https://winauth.github.io/winauth/download.html

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 11:32:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> One guy couldn't really code, so he searched the internet and asked
> questions and arrived at working solutions that way. Respect.

That is one of the qualities I looked for in interviews. Not an entirely
accurate example but I knew they didn't have any experience with rust
because it was invented last week. Can they figure it out?

I'm biased because that reflects my personal experience. While RPI was a
top ranked engineering college they didn't even have a computer science
degree. We learned FORTRAN as a tool that might be useful in our career.
Over the years I sometimes felt like I was trying to drink from a fire
hose but I figured it out.