On 2024-12-28, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:

> On 12/27/24 12:53 AM, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 22:41:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>
>>> As for George Jetsons' flying around in 'cars' ...
>>> I can foresee disasters aplenty even WITH nominal automatic route
>>> control. Humans don't even navigate 2-D very well ......
>>
>> Too many variable. My boss at that company learned to fly, bought a plane,
>> and shortened his commute time to meetings in the Boston area. One day he
>> headed off to a meeting in Kennebunk, about 16 miles. Then the fog rolled
>> in from the ocean. He found his way back, landed the plane, kissed the
>> ground, and put the plane up for sale. A Lincoln Town Car wasn't so bad
>> after all for commuting.
>
> Hmmmm ... went up one day in marginal VFR weather, which
> quickly became marginal IFR. Fortunately in the old days
> they'd teach all the students up to near-IFR skills so I
> wasn't worried. Then abruptly an F-18 whizzed by REALLY
> close at maybe 400 knots in the mist. If he hadn't been
> moving so quick I could have read the registration numbers.
> Got on UNICOM and asked if Military Pilot's radar was
> working correctly. No reply, of course :-)

You probably weren't on the appropriate UHF frequency. :-)

> Anyway, flying, the key phrase is "Don't Panic" ... that
> junk on the dashboard will tell you all you need, IF you
> will just pay attention.

"Aviate, navigate, communicate."

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On 2024-12-28, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 28/12/2024 06:09, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 00:02:09 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure JFK Jr was convinced he had the coast in sight and was
>>> maintaining level flight - right up until the belly hit a wave
>>> .......
>>
>> The Buddy Holly wreck looked lke the pilot flew it into the ground. That's
>> hard to do in Iowa unless you're seriously confused.
>
> I can totally imagine being seriously confused when your ground based
> inherent sense of balance is distorted by air movements and tight G
> turns. Being upside down going over the top of a loop at 1g feels like
> level flight...

Yes, there's nothing like fighting off a case of the "leans".

> It takes a lot to override that and learn to trust the instruments, and
> how many air accidents have been caused by instruments malfunctioning.

That's why there's enough redundancy that you should be cross-checking
the instruments. What's really scary is how many experienced pilots
are forgetting the basics that let them do sanity checks.

> Pitot heads seem to be especially vulnerable to ice or insect infestation.

Yup. I once had mud dauber wasps get into my pitot head and seal it off.
I missed it on the walkaround. On climb-out my indicated airspeed kept
increasing until it went right off the dial. (The static port was clear
so quite a pressure differential built up.) Fortunately it was a clear
day so I just flew attitude to my destination. The seal wasn't perfect;
after a while at cruise altitude the indicated airspeed slowly came back
down to the proper reading, only to go negative during the descent.
It took a fair bit of work with a piece of wire to clear the pitot tube
prior to the trip home.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On 2024-12-28, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 28/12/2024 11:17, D wrote:

>> What are statins? Sometimes I feel very young here. 😉

<snip>

> I haven't needed another angioplasty since taking them.
> So what statins do is worth doing. IF you can tolerate the side effects.

I'm lucky. I take rosavastatin (Crestor), and have no side effects.
I can even eat grapefruit, which my wife (who is taking a different
statin) cannot. Mine is more a precautionary thing, keeping
cholestorol under control.

> Cancer is an utter bitch. I am on my second now, having fully survived
> the first, but it is ultimately incurable, just very slow developing,
> so its likely something else will kill me first.

As the saying goes, you're more likely to die with it than of it.

> The problem with some cancers is that by the time they are diagnosable,
> they are already fatal. A friend died of fully metastasized bowel
> cancer. The only symptom was that he was tired and a bit gaunt for years
> and years, Then one day he went into hospital in total body pain and
> died 3 weeks later.
>
> Another friend was similar.

Pancreatic cancer is really nasty. We've lost a couple of friends
that way. It presents no symptoms until you're already toast.
The few cases I've heard of where people survived were due to
a surgeon being in the area for something else and spotting it.

Please, everyone (well, at least those of the male persuasion),
if you're over 50 and haven't yet had a PSA test, get one done.
I had been getting the digital rectal exam (i.e. finger up the
butt) for 10 years and it had always been negative. One day my
wife suggested I get a PSA test. Because I was asymptomatic,
it wasn't covered by medical, but I figured it was worth the
price of a bottle of wine to find out. It came back 20 (where
4 is considered cause for concern). Rather than panic, I sprang
for a second test, which gave the same result. So off I went
down the road to radical prostatectomy. I can't believe the
number of people who decline the test because they are either
too cheap or don't want to know. Sheesh. If I hadn't had that
test, I'd have been dead by now.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On 2024-12-28, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> I'm lucky. I take rosavastatin (Crestor), and have no side effects.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rosuvastatin. Sorry for the typo.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 10:46:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> As blame culture seeps in, the doctor tends to refer you in case you
> have something nasty in the woodshed, so she/he cannot be blamed for
> lack of care.

I had the opposite problem in the '90s. Short story, I had a minor
fracture at the base of the tibia. Since I could still walk I tried to
ignore it until it became apparent it wasn't going to fix itself. I called
the local bone factory for an appointment but they wouldn't see you
without a referral. I then went to the doctor who did DOT physicals. He
took an xray, said 'Yup, it's broken', gave me a pair of crutches and a
referral to the bone people. And a bill, of course.

Now there's a new orthopedic center that will treat you if you drag
yourself in without the middleman.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 10:58:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I cant see how Hinduism could have a pantheon. At its core its mostly
> philosophy.

Right. When they're rubbing a lingam with butter it is purely philosophy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam

Then there is Ganesha

https://www.hinduamerican.org/blog/5-things-to-know-about-ganesha

or Lakshmi

https://www.hinduamerican.org/blog/lakshmi

Never take the dry European accounts of Hinduism, Buddhism, and other
eastern religions as relevant to what happens on the ground. I've heard
Hinduism referred to as serial monotheism. People can switch to a new
favorite god or goddess and there is no requirement that everyone in a
family picks the same one.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 01:32:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> All hail Enki, bringer of Knowledge and Civilization -
> the true Prometheus !

Close, but it's 'all hail Eris'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism

Eris is closer to Wotan, who never promised to bring peace and prosperity.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 17:08:28 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> Pancreatic cancer is really nasty. We've lost a couple of friends that
> way. It presents no symptoms until you're already toast. The few cases
> I've heard of where people survived were due to a surgeon being in the
> area for something else and spotting it.

I talked to my neighbor and he said he was ready to retire and do some
serious fishing. It was about two months after retirement and he was dead.
I talked to his son and they had managed to get in a last fishing trip.
He'd started chemo but it did little good if not killing him faster.

> Please, everyone (well, at least those of the male persuasion), if
> you're over 50 and haven't yet had a PSA test, get one done.

During my first visit my doctor offered to prescribe a PSA test but said
it often showed false positives and worried you over nothing. I got the
finger wave instead. That was over 20 years ago. My prostate isn't
getting any smaller but I've hit the point most males reach where you die
with prostate cancer, not of it.

It's like colonoscopy. I had one. TMI but I waived the anesthesia and
could watch the process on the monitor. Very interesting. 10 years later I
elected the stool sample. After 75 they no longer do them. If you've made
it that far...

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:17:31 +0100, D wrote:

> What are statins? Sometimes I feel very young here

They supposedly lower cholesterol and are loved by cardiologists.
According to them everybody would benefit from taking them, damn the side
effects.

I just had my yearly exam. My LDL was toward the lower end of the normal
range while the HDL (good cholesterol) was a little above the high end.

The punch line: my breakfast for years consists of garlic, half an onion,
two eggs, and a slice of cheese. Supper alternates between chunks of pig
or cow with a rare chicken. My veggies are mostly the garlic and onion,
with baked yams or squash in the winter. Fruit is blueberries or
strawberries that I like to mix in with cottage cheese. A cardiologist
would weep.

'The science' has been changing over the years. A friend who was a bit of
a hypochondriac closely followed the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_England_Journal_of_Medicine

It isn't some quack alternative medicine publication but he loved to point
out how 'the science' could change on a weekly basis.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:33:48 +0100, D wrote:

> Psalm 144:1 - “Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teaches my
> hands
> to war, and my fingers to fight.”

Well, that's close. Then there is the translation of a psalm that may not
be authorized.

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear
no evil: for I am the meanest motherfucker in the valley"

I'm never sure of the numbers. Catholics and Protestants count
differently.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:32:17 +0100, D wrote:

> This is the truth. Snorri was a ninja!

It's interesting how some of the writers/historians trace back to the fall
of Troy. Were they reading Homer or Virgil? Or was that part of the
Christian mythology of the day?

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 01:45:07 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Micro-fragmentation and inter-fragment wars is a big part of why Rome
> was able to take SO much SO quickly. Also why the Euros were able to
> subdue the AmerIndians so quickly.

That, and Big Brother lurking in the shadows, also explains Israel's
existence.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:39:50 +0100, D wrote:

> Liechtenstein, Monaco and Andorra all have managed to survive as small
> states longer than some modern countries have existed. They prove that
> it is not impossible for a small entity to survive.

It helps if you don't have anything anybody wants and they can't find you
on a map. Being a tax haven that attracts corporate headquarters isn't
something you can conquer.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:23:12 +0100, D wrote:

> But if you put out a small salt stone, I'm certain they would stop
> gnawing at other things?

That is one recommendation for homeowners with a porky problem. They don't
get around too much. The is a nature trail with markers for the points of
interest that's adjacent to a pasture where there is a salt block. Too far
to walk so they eat the markers.

I'd worked on the trail in the '80s and made markers by slicing fence
posts at a diagonal and routing the numbers on the face. Being untreated
wood they eventually rotted and were replaced with the plywood markers.
After the porkies chewed them off some were replaced by what looks like a
plastic composite. It will be interesting to see if they last.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 10:33:19 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 28/12/2024 02:00, rbowman wrote:
>
>> When I was married we talked to an honest broker. He told us if we
>> weren't willing to put the money on a roulette table in Vegas we
>> shouldn't be in the market. We thanked him for his time and insights.
>>
>> Truth is, the whole topic bores me.
>
> Me too, but it remains a way to supplement my pension

Unless my lifestyle radically changes my pension is more than adequate.

On 2024-12-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 17:08:28 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> Please, everyone (well, at least those of the male persuasion), if
>> you're over 50 and haven't yet had a PSA test, get one done.
>
> During my first visit my doctor offered to prescribe a PSA test but said
> it often showed false positives and worried you over nothing. I got the
> finger wave instead. That was over 20 years ago. My prostate isn't
> getting any smaller but I've hit the point most males reach where you die
> with prostate cancer, not of it.

Glad to hear it. Apparently for some people it doesn't show up in a
DRE, while for others it doesn't show up on a PSA. Might as well get
both and be a bit more sure.

> It's like colonoscopy. I had one. TMI but I waived the anesthesia and
> could watch the process on the monitor. Very interesting. 10 years later I
> elected the stool sample. After 75 they no longer do them. If you've made
> it that far...

They doped me up for my colonoscopy. The only thing I remember was
looking at the monitor and noticing a standard set of Windows gadgets
along the bottom. I just hoped it wasn't going to give me the
Blue Screen of Death...

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On 2024-12-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> Right. When they're rubbing a lingam with butter it is purely philosophy.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam

I googled "Lingam massage therapist near me". The top hit was ...
impressive.

On 2024-12-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> It helps if you don't have anything anybody wants and they can't find you
> on a map. Being a tax haven that attracts corporate headquarters isn't
> something you can conquer.

In fact, the conquest is likely to kill the goos that lays the golden
eggs. China is busy turning the prosperous Hong Kong into another
Shanghai instead of the other Singapore.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 00:48:39 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

> On 2024-12-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> Right. When they're rubbing a lingam with butter it is purely
>> philosophy.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam
>
> I googled "Lingam massage therapist near me". The top hit was ...
> impressive.

None in my neighborhood or I might treat myself to a late birthday
present. I knew about the symbolism for Shiva. Given the Kama Sutra I
should have guessed it would be put to a practical application.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 00:25:01 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> They doped me up for my colonoscopy. The only thing I remember was
> looking at the monitor and noticing a standard set of Windows gadgets
> along the bottom. I just hoped it wasn't going to give me the Blue
> Screen of Death...

The physician was ex-military so he just said "Yeah, okay." They did start
an IV in case I started screaming. It looked something like a video game
where you're navigating a tunnel with little pools of green water here and
there. Then a little snipper would shoot out to grab a piece for analysis.

I've has much worse gas pains. I think the push sedation in case the
patient freaks out more than any discomfort involved. A friend was sedated
and his sister had to drag him home in a zombie state. I got dressed and
went to work.

On 12/28/24 3:15 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 10:58:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> I cant see how Hinduism could have a pantheon. At its core its mostly
>> philosophy.
>
> Right. When they're rubbing a lingam with butter it is purely philosophy.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam
>
> Then there is Ganesha
>
> https://www.hinduamerican.org/blog/5-things-to-know-about-ganesha
>
> or Lakshmi
>
> https://www.hinduamerican.org/blog/lakshmi
>
> Never take the dry European accounts of Hinduism, Buddhism, and other
> eastern religions as relevant to what happens on the ground. I've heard
> Hinduism referred to as serial monotheism. People can switch to a new
> favorite god or goddess and there is no requirement that everyone in a
> family picks the same one.

Well, as I kinda implied, the Hindu pantheon is kinda odd.
In programmers terms you get the parent process - Bhahma/
Vishnu/Shiva - and then a lot of 'child processes' spawned
which can themselves spawn child processes.

Sometimes those gods are just kinda 'ideas', sometimes
they are said to adopt physical, distinct, forms as
needed. Lots of big temples to the more popular avatars.

Five or six thousand years ... it's all become complicated.

On 12/28/24 5:58 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 28/12/2024 06:25, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> As for BRITS ... 'unbroken' maybe means a few thousand
>>    years - but with every wave of invaders the 'gods' got
>>    mixed, re-named, re-statused - and some just disappeared.
>>
> Indeed. The Celtic pantheon of nature spirits remains a dismal parody of
> its formal self with just a few faeries, leprechauns and of course the
> Morrigan.
>
>>    Kinda like Hindu 'paganism' - the idea of god-beings with
>>    such extreme power and 'generative potential' that a mere
>>    passing thought could pop another god or god-like thing
>>    into existence on the spot ... a nice kinda 'fractal'
>>    look and feel  🙂
>>
> I cant see how Hinduism  could have a pantheon. At its core its mostly
> philosophy.
>
> I always thought that their gods were understood to be symbols, nor 'real'

Then explain all those temples ... to specific gods, with
faces :-)

SOMETIMES the gods are 'ideas'/'ideals', SOMETIMES they
manifest materially.

>>    Know nothing about Chinese theology alas ... other than
>>    that it had a lot of 'demons'. Gotta look into that. May
>>    NOT entirely 'get it' alas because I wasn't born Chinese.
>>    'Gods' kinda COMPLEMENT the culture rather than CREATE it.
>>
>
> Japanese is ancestor worship.

A little more complex than that ...

>>    Oh, good movie/Harry Potter question - how come all
>>    'spells' are done in LATIN ??? Did spirits/gods/etc
>>    from 10,000 years ago all speak Latin too ???  🙂
>
> Well traditionally necromancy texts were written in Hebrew or Latin, as
> there was a close association between the religion and its antithesis.🙂
>
> Although IIRC HP Lovecraft had a mad Arab somewhere on his demonology.
> Abdul Alhazred, creator of the Necronomicon.
>
> I mean it wouldn't make good drama  for our Harry to mutter ' I say
> great spiwwit, turn Malfoy into a spotted toad'
>
> Clever people spoke Latin or Greek, back in the day.

:-)

If you want demonology, Persian or Babylonian might
be more productive. Hey, they were a BIG DEAL for a
LONG time.

The first 'god' to be mentioned however was Sumerian,
"Enki" (spelling varies). It liked 'fish' themes and
supposedly imparted all kinds of civil-structure and
civil-engineering info mostly to the citizens of
Eridu (now Kuwait). Uruk and Ur copied. Great luck
that paper hadn't been invented yet - those clay
tablets are REALLY 'archival media'.

The even older works at Gobekli Tepe imply even earlier
gods/religions - but there's no real DETAIL. It's
kinda like finding a 'cross' symbol but with no
clue as to what it MEANS to anybody, no background.
I guess the builders "just knew" and ASSUMED everyone
would 'get it' forever and ever.

Sumerian tales have been kinda well translated at
this point. Especially study the hero/demigod
guy named 'Gilgamesh'. Probably the first cite
of a 'Hercules'-type figure. Double-alpha male,
huge (6-7 feet prob) with Arnie's physique. He
became SUCH a pain in the ass in Ur that they
petitioned the Gods to find ways to distract him
(you could actually walk to the temple and talk
to physical gods in those days). They arranged a
near-equal gay-boy lover and some 'tasks'/goals.
This kept him out of everybody's hair :-)

Anyway, the tales were so good they were later
translated into Akkadian and then Babylonian.
Raw translations - including 'text missing' bits -
can be found online.

SO INTERESTING how civil life and concerns have
changed SO LITTLE in 7000+ years !

On 12/28/24 7:48 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2024-12-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> Right. When they're rubbing a lingam with butter it is purely philosophy.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam
>
> I googled "Lingam massage therapist near me". The top hit was ...
> impressive.
>
Ha ha !

Well, let's say this has been a constant interest
since before clay tablets :-)

On 12/28/24 8:28 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 00:48:39 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> On 2024-12-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> Right. When they're rubbing a lingam with butter it is purely
>>> philosophy.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam
>>
>> I googled "Lingam massage therapist near me". The top hit was ...
>> impressive.
>
> None in my neighborhood or I might treat myself to a late birthday
> present. I knew about the symbolism for Shiva. Given the Kama Sutra I
> should have guessed it would be put to a practical application.

Forever popular :-)

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 00:11:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Five or six thousand years ... it's all become complicated.

Very. I tried to read Guénon's 'Introduction to the Study of the Hindu
Doctrines' and gave up. It doesn't help that Guénon was a few bricks shy
of a load. After trickling through the weirdness of the day he finally hit
on Islam.

Thoreau talks about 'The Laws of Manu'. I never could find it but I
assume he was using Jones' translation. I did find a more complete modern
translation and it is dense. Jones also popularized the relationship of
Sanskit to European languages and theorized an Aryan invasion of India.
Schopenhauer also read Jones to get his ideas of what eastern philosophy
was.

I only recently heard the term 'Protestant Buddhism' but I think it apples
to most of the eastern religions that have been westernized.

https://www.learnreligions.com/protestant-buddhism-449765