On 12/29/24 1:25 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 00:11:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> Five or six thousand years ... it's all become complicated.
>
> Very. I tried to read Guénon's 'Introduction to the Study of the Hindu
> Doctrines' and gave up. It doesn't help that Guénon was a few bricks shy
> of a load. After trickling through the weirdness of the day he finally hit
> on Islam.
>
> Thoreau talks about 'The Laws of Manu'. I never could find it but I
> assume he was using Jones' translation. I did find a more complete modern
> translation and it is dense. Jones also popularized the relationship of
> Sanskit to European languages and theorized an Aryan invasion of India.
> Schopenhauer also read Jones to get his ideas of what eastern philosophy
> was.
>
> I only recently heard the term 'Protestant Buddhism' but I think it apples
> to most of the eastern religions that have been westernized.
>
> https://www.learnreligions.com/protestant-buddhism-449765

Well ... there's the "Beatles" period - where the religion
was 'adapted' for western consumption.

On some shelf I've got a kinda 'Krishna' tome by a
swami from the 60s.

IMHO, like with Chinese theology, if you weren't raised,
saturated, in it then you're never REALLY gonna 'get it'.
Religions and cultures are usually tightly-entwined.

Still, the Parent/Child/Sub-Child aspect of Hindu IS
kinda interesting.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 01:00:57 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/28/24 7:48 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2024-12-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> Right. When they're rubbing a lingam with butter it is purely
>>> philosophy.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam
>>
>> I googled "Lingam massage therapist near me". The top hit was ...
>> impressive.
>>
> Ha ha !
>
> Well, let's say this has been a constant interest since before clay
> tablets :-)

The interest is necessary for the survival of humans. The Gods know the
Christians tried to stamp it out by saying it should only be used for
procreation and you weren't supposed to have fun.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 01:58:50 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> IMHO, like with Chinese theology, if you weren't raised, saturated,
> in it then you're never REALLY gonna 'get it'.
> Religions and cultures are usually tightly-entwined.

Then there's Shinto with an infinite number of kami and a Buddhist monk on
speed dial in case Uncle Hayao kicks off. There is a Shinto shrine in
Washington State but I have no idea how you export that to the round eyes.

In the spirit of DEI, Christian weddings are very popular in Japan. I
think most of the priests are fakes; the real ones cost more.

> Still, the Parent/Child/Sub-Child aspect of Hindu IS kinda
> interesting.

It all started with Auðumbla and Ymir. When you stare at the Abyss it's
interesting what crawls out.

On 12/29/24 2:45 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 01:58:50 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>
>> IMHO, like with Chinese theology, if you weren't raised, saturated,
>> in it then you're never REALLY gonna 'get it'.
>> Religions and cultures are usually tightly-entwined.
>
> Then there's Shinto with an infinite number of kami and a Buddhist monk on
> speed dial in case Uncle Hayao kicks off. There is a Shinto shrine in
> Washington State but I have no idea how you export that to the round eyes.
>
> In the spirit of DEI, Christian weddings are very popular in Japan. I
> think most of the priests are fakes; the real ones cost more.
>
>> Still, the Parent/Child/Sub-Child aspect of Hindu IS kinda
>> interesting.
>
> It all started with Auðumbla and Ymir. When you stare at the Abyss it's
> interesting what crawls out.

Cow gods ?

That theology came well AFTER Sumeria.

Ultra-great grandpappy/granny must have been
really fond of cows :-)

The current Most Annoying is what those who built
Gobekli Tepi had in mind. They added lots of symbols
with a likely 'religious' meaning - but forgot to
include any DETAILS. Likely assumed everybody would
"just know" 12,000 years later.

First 'details' show up at the dawn of the Mesopotamian
era - but that's "Enki", not cows or anything. Enki
was fond of 'fish themes'. However it did reportedly
inform about civil-structure/engineering issues. The
later city-states copied. Enki seemed to be a pretty
good, umm, dude.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 28/12/2024 11:08, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/12/2024 23:12, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 23/12/2024 21:14, D wrote:
>>>>>> I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that remains of paganism
>>>>>> were alive until the 1700s, but cannot find anything through a quick
>>>>>> google. My friendly neighbourhood AI insist on official death in the
>>>>>> 12:th century.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a subject of heated debate as modern Wiccan/Pagans like to feel
>>>>> they have an unbroken tradition.
>>>>>
>>>>> But of course people probably learned to keep their mouths shit and rub
>>>>> themselves with witches ointment in private...
>>>>
>>>> I do not believe in any unbroken tradition except among indians,
>>>> esquimaux or some siberian indians.
>>>>
>>>> I do believe that it is not impossible that remains existed up until the
>>>> 17th or perhaps even 18th century, although those remains probably were
>>>> _very_ different from the original.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I am not going to argue: merely to say that modern Wicca started with
>>> Gardner who claimed to have been initiated by IIRC a Scottish witch in the
>>> practices of the 'old religion' .
>>>
>>> And started the modern following...
>>
>> I'm not convinced that Gardnerian wicca represents an unbroken tradition.
>> But... who knows? ;) I've heard that this can give rise to bitter fights
>> among wiccans.
>
> Oh yes. And the Cermoinial Magickians. And and and...
>
> More in fighting in Wicca than the average private school girls toilets...
> Or the average religious sect. The exclusive Plymouth brethren simply will
> not talk to the ordinary Plymouth brethren etc. etc.

How come you are so wise on the ways of the occult? Has it always been an
interest of yours?

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 28/12/2024 11:17, D wrote:
>> What are statins? Sometimes I feel very young here. 😉 I remember my old
>> doctor. He operated on a push/pull methodology. If you wanted something, he
>> would not give it to you, if you did not want something, he would push it.
>> The reason I remember it, was that once my mother wanted something, and he
>> tried his best not to give it to her, and then the same week I went there,
>> he tried hard to push the same medication on me. He was fairly grumpy and
>> an extremely heavy smoker.
>>
> Well I have clooged arteries and have had 5 operatins to fixce them, but they
> get clogged every year. I couldnt hanlde statins and they said that all that
> cholestrol or somethinbg was clogging them
>
> Now I have a bloody expensive fortnightly self adminitered injection, which
> they say has worked.
>
> I haven't needed another angioplasty since taking them.
> So what statins do is worth doing. IF you can tolerate the side effects.
>
> Or there are other medications.
>
> Its a question of the least worst remedies. Everything has a side effect. I
> tried beta blockers but felt like a zombie.

Sometimes I get the feeling that doctors are still very close to medieval
alchemists and have no clue what's going on. I have a very mild, but
annoying skin desease that came from nowhere. Since it is very mild, and
only flares up about once a month I never bothered to do anything about
it. But I had some extra time and went to a doctor, he called in 2 others
doctors, and they were looking at it for 20 minutes discussing, and in the
end admitted they had no idea what it is and gave me some creams.

The creams gave me 2 small permanent scars, that otherwise would have
disappeared (thank you Mr. Doctor!). They told me to come back and they
would look some more. ;)

So I wonder if I should do it, or if they will manage to make it worse the
second time as well? On the other hand, I am curious about what it is, and
it would be nice to know.

Well, another project for 2025!

>>> I would prefer to blow my heart out on a steep mountain trail and become
>>> food for the bears to some long drawn out affair where 'medical science'
>>> tries to put off the inevitable.
>>
>
> Well I am afraid I am fully on all the medical science can do to not blow my
> heart out.
> Most of what I now take seems to do the job, but the surgery made the most
> difference, Dyno-rodding the arteries is a brutal but effective method
>
>> This is the truth! After seeing my mothers cancer treatment that did not
>> work out in the end, I agree 100%. She went through 3 years of hell for
>> nothing. It did not help of course, that the doctor misdiagnosed her. She
>> was in tears and filed a law suit against herself. I do not blame her, I
>> blame the socialist system she works in, which made her over worked, and
>> therefore more likely to commit mistakes.
>
> Cancer is an utter bitch. I am on my second now, having fully survived the

This is the truth!

> first, but it is ultimately incurable, just very slow developing, so its
> likely something else will kill me first.

My grandmother had some form of slow acting blood cancer I think. In the
end I think she died of old age at 95.

> The problem with some cancers is that by the time they are diagnosable, they
> are already fatal. A friend died of fully metastasized bowel cancer. The only
> symptom was that he was tired and a bit gaunt for years and years, Then one
> day he went into hospital in total body pain and died 3 weeks later.
>
> Another friend was similar.
>
> The cancer was never present in the bowel to any high degree, just mounting
> back pain and lymph node lumps a few weeks before the end.

Horrible! =(

> Some cancers are easy.. Some are harder and some are impossible.
> GPs are not equipped for this. My GP threw me straight at oncology to check
> out something suspicious. She is rather conscientious.

My mothers doctor told me that cancer is not one desease, it's 100s of
different ones and apparently that is why it is so difficult to cure it.
Research focuses on the most common ones, and I imagine there is very
little money in the least common ones.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2024-12-28, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 28/12/2024 11:17, D wrote:
>
>>> What are statins? Sometimes I feel very young here. 😉
>
> <snip>
>
>> I haven't needed another angioplasty since taking them.
>> So what statins do is worth doing. IF you can tolerate the side effects.
>
> I'm lucky. I take rosavastatin (Crestor), and have no side effects.
> I can even eat grapefruit, which my wife (who is taking a different
> statin) cannot. Mine is more a precautionary thing, keeping
> cholestorol under control.
>
>> Cancer is an utter bitch. I am on my second now, having fully survived
>> the first, but it is ultimately incurable, just very slow developing,
>> so its likely something else will kill me first.
>
> As the saying goes, you're more likely to die with it than of it.
>
>> The problem with some cancers is that by the time they are diagnosable,
>> they are already fatal. A friend died of fully metastasized bowel
>> cancer. The only symptom was that he was tired and a bit gaunt for years
>> and years, Then one day he went into hospital in total body pain and
>> died 3 weeks later.
>>
>> Another friend was similar.
>
> Pancreatic cancer is really nasty. We've lost a couple of friends
> that way. It presents no symptoms until you're already toast.
> The few cases I've heard of where people survived were due to
> a surgeon being in the area for something else and spotting it.
>
> Please, everyone (well, at least those of the male persuasion),
> if you're over 50 and haven't yet had a PSA test, get one done.
> I had been getting the digital rectal exam (i.e. finger up the
> butt) for 10 years and it had always been negative. One day my

Nah... I'd prefer my dignity and death over a finger up the butt every
year. ;)

> wife suggested I get a PSA test. Because I was asymptomatic,

Does it involve a finger up the butt? =/

> it wasn't covered by medical, but I figured it was worth the
> price of a bottle of wine to find out. It came back 20 (where
> 4 is considered cause for concern). Rather than panic, I sprang
> for a second test, which gave the same result. So off I went
> down the road to radical prostatectomy. I can't believe the
> number of people who decline the test because they are either
> too cheap or don't want to know. Sheesh. If I hadn't had that
> test, I'd have been dead by now.
>
>

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 17:08:28 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>
>> Pancreatic cancer is really nasty. We've lost a couple of friends that
>> way. It presents no symptoms until you're already toast. The few cases
>> I've heard of where people survived were due to a surgeon being in the
>> area for something else and spotting it.
>
> I talked to my neighbor and he said he was ready to retire and do some
> serious fishing. It was about two months after retirement and he was dead.
> I talked to his son and they had managed to get in a last fishing trip.
> He'd started chemo but it did little good if not killing him faster.

Was he very career oriented? I have a theory that many who are overly
career oriented and place their full identity and value in their job and
career, cannot handle forced retirement. When deprived of their jobs and
careers, they just whither and die.

I have an acquaintance and his father was very much about saving and
preparing for retirement. He was a senior oil executive, and a year or so
before retirement he gets a stroke, and while surviving, he's not able to
enjoy all the things he planned. Very tragic!

My mother asked me, before she died, to stop saving all the time, and
actually try to enjoy life from time to time. Even though I'm not good at
it, I do think about her advice and I try to enojoy more fishing trips and
stuff, than I did before she died.

>> Please, everyone (well, at least those of the male persuasion), if
>> you're over 50 and haven't yet had a PSA test, get one done.
>
> During my first visit my doctor offered to prescribe a PSA test but said
> it often showed false positives and worried you over nothing. I got the
> finger wave instead. That was over 20 years ago. My prostate isn't
> getting any smaller but I've hit the point most males reach where you die
> with prostate cancer, not of it.
>
> It's like colonoscopy. I had one. TMI but I waived the anesthesia and
> could watch the process on the monitor. Very interesting. 10 years later I
> elected the stool sample. After 75 they no longer do them. If you've made
> it that far...

Again, if it takes a lot of people fondling my anus and my penis in order
to live a long life, I think it might not be for me.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:17:31 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> What are statins? Sometimes I feel very young here
>
> They supposedly lower cholesterol and are loved by cardiologists.
> According to them everybody would benefit from taking them, damn the side
> effects.

Ahh, got it. Yes, I surely must be one of the youngest members of this
group! ;)

> I just had my yearly exam. My LDL was toward the lower end of the normal
> range while the HDL (good cholesterol) was a little above the high end.
>
> The punch line: my breakfast for years consists of garlic, half an onion,
> two eggs, and a slice of cheese. Supper alternates between chunks of pig
> or cow with a rare chicken. My veggies are mostly the garlic and onion,
> with baked yams or squash in the winter. Fruit is blueberries or
> strawberries that I like to mix in with cottage cheese. A cardiologist
> would weep.

Sounds like a nice diet! I could live with that, minus the yams and the
squash.

> 'The science' has been changing over the years. A friend who was a bit of
> a hypochondriac closely followed the New England Journal of Medicine.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_England_Journal_of_Medicine
>
> It isn't some quack alternative medicine publication but he loved to point
> out how 'the science' could change on a weekly basis.

It always does. I've long since learned to ignore any articles of the
form "science say you'll die if you eat x" or "science says you'll live if
you eat y". I try to focus on the quality of life instead of the quantity.

I think perhaps not having children helps with having a more detached view
of life. Having children I think does horrible things to your sleep and
your peace of mind. ;)

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:33:48 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Psalm 144:1 - “Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teaches my
>> hands
>> to war, and my fingers to fight.”
>
> Well, that's close. Then there is the translation of a psalm that may not
> be authorized.
>
> "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear
> no evil: for I am the meanest motherfucker in the valley"
>
> I'm never sure of the numbers. Catholics and Protestants count
> differently.

Very profound! Which version would that be? ;)

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:32:17 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> This is the truth. Snorri was a ninja!
>
> It's interesting how some of the writers/historians trace back to the fall
> of Troy. Were they reading Homer or Virgil? Or was that part of the
> Christian mythology of the day?
>

That was high fashion for a time! There were some swedish authors as well
who played that game, traving the swede back to ancient greek times. No
one likes to write about tracing all the way back to africa though. ;)

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:39:50 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Liechtenstein, Monaco and Andorra all have managed to survive as small
>> states longer than some modern countries have existed. They prove that
>> it is not impossible for a small entity to survive.
>
> It helps if you don't have anything anybody wants and they can't find you
> on a map. Being a tax haven that attracts corporate headquarters isn't
> something you can conquer.
>

This is my point about changed historical circumstances. With industries
now being intangible, such as finance and IT, it becomes easier to carve
out small mental kingdoms, instead of if you were sitting on a gold mine
that everyone wants. It could be argued that being below a certain size,
adds to your security, since, as you say, people simply wont see you on
the map. ;)

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:23:12 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> But if you put out a small salt stone, I'm certain they would stop
>> gnawing at other things?
>
> That is one recommendation for homeowners with a porky problem. They don't
> get around too much. The is a nature trail with markers for the points of
> interest that's adjacent to a pasture where there is a salt block. Too far
> to walk so they eat the markers.

They seem to be very set in their ways. No chance for diplomacy? ;)

> I'd worked on the trail in the '80s and made markers by slicing fence
> posts at a diagonal and routing the numbers on the face. Being untreated
> wood they eventually rotted and were replaced with the plywood markers.
> After the porkies chewed them off some were replaced by what looks like a
> plastic composite. It will be interesting to see if they last.
>
>

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Lars Poulsen wrote:

> On 2024-12-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> It helps if you don't have anything anybody wants and they can't find you
>> on a map. Being a tax haven that attracts corporate headquarters isn't
>> something you can conquer.
>
> In fact, the conquest is likely to kill the goos that lays the golden
> eggs. China is busy turning the prosperous Hong Kong into another
> Shanghai instead of the other Singapore.
>

This is the truth! But I think it is, in chinas case, about the mindset of
the authoritarian. They couldn't care less about golden eggs as long as
they get to keep the power.

Chinas relatively free market was a forced response, since the party
realized they would have a small revolution on their hands, if they banned
free markets. In that way, chinas authoritarians are smart. They look at
what works and what doesn't and adapt to keep their power.

On 29/12/2024 06:58, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> IMHO, like with Chinese theology, if you weren't raised,
>   saturated, in it then you're never REALLY gonna 'get it'.
>   Religions and cultures are usually tightly-entwined.

Odd. My experience is that looking at religions from the outside, I know
far more about them than their practitioners and believers do.

I think the expereince of WW2 left my parents generation a bit too grown
up for it all.

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 29/12/2024 07:24, rbowman wrote:
> The interest is necessary for the survival of humans. The Gods know the
> Christians tried to stamp it out by saying it should only be used for
> procreation and you weren't supposed to have fun.

Catholic and Islamic girls are absolutely the hottest.

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 29/12/2024 08:22, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> The current Most Annoying is what those who built
>   Gobekli Tepi had in mind. They added lots of symbols
>   with a likely 'religious' meaning - but forgot to
>   include any DETAILS. Likely assumed everybody would
>   "just know" 12,000 years later.

I wonder what on earth people in 12000 years time will make of Debian
release names.
"Named after household gods" ?

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 29/12/2024 10:53, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 28/12/2024 11:08, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/12/2024 23:12, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23/12/2024 21:14, D wrote:
>>>>>>> I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that remains of
>>>>>>> paganism were alive until the 1700s, but cannot find anything
>>>>>>> through a quick google. My friendly neighbourhood AI insist on
>>>>>>> official death in the 12:th century.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a subject of heated debate as modern Wiccan/Pagans like to
>>>>>> feel they have an unbroken tradition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But of course people probably learned to keep their mouths shit
>>>>>> and rub themselves with witches ointment in private...
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not believe in any unbroken tradition except among indians,
>>>>> esquimaux or some siberian indians.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do believe that it is not impossible that remains existed up
>>>>> until the 17th or perhaps even 18th century, although those remains
>>>>> probably were _very_ different from the original.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I am not going to argue: merely to say that modern Wicca started
>>>> with Gardner who claimed to have been initiated by IIRC a Scottish
>>>> witch in the practices of the 'old religion' .
>>>>
>>>> And started the modern following...
>>>
>>> I'm not convinced that Gardnerian wicca represents an unbroken
>>> tradition. But... who knows? ;) I've heard that this can give rise to
>>> bitter fights among wiccans.
>>
>> Oh yes. And the Cermoinial Magickians. And and and...
>>
>> More in fighting in Wicca than the average private school girls
>> toilets...
>> Or the average religious sect. The exclusive Plymouth brethren simply
>> will not talk to the ordinary Plymouth brethren etc. etc.
>
> How come you are so wise on the ways of the occult? Has it always been
> an interest of yours?

Oh yes. After I discarded rational materialism I went looking at all the
other 'models of reality'.

Religions , cults, conspiracy theories and the like.

Some grains in there that are interesting, but mostly dross.

Numerology is interesting. The *quality* of numbers, not their quantity.

In the classic Jewish system, it all starts with nothing (0), and then
there is something (1)
Adding a second dimension gives the idea of distance (2) , and cubic
space is (3), whereas time is (4).

All done with 'emanations'. Broadly speaking, emergent properties...

The Jewish Kabbalistic system is actually the sort of mental maps that
became science.

It was all dredged up and reinvented in the 1930s by Crowley and
associates.

--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

On 29/12/2024 11:02, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 28/12/2024 11:17, D wrote:

>>
>> Its a question of the least worst remedies. Everything has a side
>> effect. I tried beta blockers but felt like a zombie.
>
> Sometimes I get the feeling that doctors are still very close to
> medieval alchemists and have no clue what's going on. I have a very
> mild, but annoying skin desease that came from nowhere. Since it is very
> mild, and only flares up about once a month I never bothered to do
> anything about it. But I had some extra time and went to a doctor, he
> called in 2 others doctors, and they were looking at it for 20 minutes
> discussing, and in the end admitted they had no idea what it is and gave
> me some creams.
>
I had the same. It turned out that I had been using a lot of bleach to
clean my house after I got my ex out of it. and it affected my skin.

> The creams gave me 2 small permanent scars, that otherwise would have
> disappeared (thank you Mr. Doctor!). They told me to come back and they
> would look some more. ;)
>
> So I wonder if I should do it, or if they will manage to make it worse
> the second time as well? On the other hand, I am curious about what it
> is, and it would be nice to know.
>
If it doesn't kill you no one has studied it.

Medicine is tampering with a massively complex dynamic system, and only
by trial and error does it become appernet what works and what does not.

>> Cancer is an utter bitch. I am on my second now, having fully survived
>> the
>
> This is the truth!
>
>> first,  but it is ultimately incurable, just very slow developing, so
>> its likely something else will kill me first.
>
> My grandmother had some form of slow acting blood cancer I think. In the
> end I think she died of old age at 95.
>
Yep. That's the one. Had it at least ten years with no real effect.

>>
>> The cancer was never present in the bowel to any high degree, just
>> mounting back pain and lymph node lumps a few weeks before the end.
>
> Horrible! =(
>
>> Some cancers are easy.. Some are harder and some are impossible.
>> GPs are not equipped for this. My GP threw me straight at oncology to
>> check out something suspicious. She is rather conscientious.
>
> My mothers doctor told me that cancer is not one disease, it's 100s of
> different ones and apparently that is why it is so difficult to cure it.
> Research focuses on the most common ones, and I imagine there is very
> little money in the least common ones.

All it really is, is abnormal genetics taking hold. A mutation appears,
survives and then prospers.

It is pure luck of the draw, mostly.

And its hard to call e.g. heart disease a disease, since there is no
active agency causing it.

It's an effect of genetics and lifestyle choices and a huge slice of luck.

--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On 2024-12-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 00:25:01 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> They doped me up for my colonoscopy. The only thing I remember was
>> looking at the monitor and noticing a standard set of Windows gadgets
>> along the bottom. I just hoped it wasn't going to give me the Blue
>> Screen of Death...
>
> The physician was ex-military so he just said "Yeah, okay." They did start
> an IV in case I started screaming. It looked something like a video game
> where you're navigating a tunnel with little pools of green water here and
> there. Then a little snipper would shoot out to grab a piece for analysis.
>
> I've has much worse gas pains. I think the push sedation in case the
> patient freaks out more than any discomfort involved. A friend was sedated
> and his sister had to drag him home in a zombie state. I got dressed and
> went to work.

That sounds familiar. I didn't think I was too far gone until my wife
came to take me home and I suddenly realized, "Whoa, I'm a zombie."

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On 2024-12-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 29/12/2024 11:02, D wrote:
>
>> My mothers doctor told me that cancer is not one disease, it's 100s of
>> different ones and apparently that is why it is so difficult to cure it.
>> Research focuses on the most common ones, and I imagine there is very
>> little money in the least common ones.
>
> All it really is, is abnormal genetics taking hold. A mutation appears,
> survives and then prospers.
>
> It is pure luck of the draw, mostly.
>
> And its hard to call e.g. heart disease a disease, since there is no
> active agency causing it.
>
> It's an effect of genetics and lifestyle choices and a huge slice of luck.

I suspect that prolonged biochemical stress (e.g. smoking) is a factor.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 12:26:09 +0100, D wrote:

> They seem to be very set in their ways. No chance for diplomacy?

Baseball bat. Conventional wisdom is a porcupine is the only animal an
unarmed man in the wilderness can kill and eat. Hit them in the nose.

Apropos there is a trail I frequently walk which has a shortcut that I
don't think I've ever used. Yesterday I wanted to get my miles for the
year up and took it for a lap and a half. One of the informational signs
is about porcupine damage pointing out a couple of trees with dead tops.

Part of the trail runs along the river and I used to see beaver damage,
and I've seen it on other riparian trails but there is nothing recent. I
wonder if Fish & Game has been waging a quiet war on beavers?

On 29/12/2024 16:54, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2024-12-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 29/12/2024 11:02, D wrote:
>>
>>> My mothers doctor told me that cancer is not one disease, it's 100s of
>>> different ones and apparently that is why it is so difficult to cure it.
>>> Research focuses on the most common ones, and I imagine there is very
>>> little money in the least common ones.
>>
>> All it really is, is abnormal genetics taking hold. A mutation appears,
>> survives and then prospers.
>>
>> It is pure luck of the draw, mostly.
>>
>> And its hard to call e.g. heart disease a disease, since there is no
>> active agency causing it.
>>
>> It's an effect of genetics and lifestyle choices and a huge slice of luck.
>
> I suspect that prolonged biochemical stress (e.g. smoking) is a factor.
>
See "lifestyle choices"...

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 12:20:42 +0100, D wrote:

> That was high fashion for a time! There were some swedish authors as
> well who played that game, traving the swede back to ancient greek
> times. No one likes to write about tracing all the way back to africa
> though.

When you try to unravel the histories you realize there was a lot of
cribbing going on with pure fiction to fill in the blanks. Then there are
the dead ends like the assumption Jordanes copied Cassiodorus although
there are no texts by Cassiodorus. According to him the Goths took a shot
at Troy after the Trojan Wars.

The twist is he might have been right about the Geats if you look at
modern DNA patterns. The thought is I-M253 arose in Scandinavia and spread
out from there. Did they becomes Goths?

It's hard to separate the fly shit from the pepper.

Funny thing about tracing genealogies back to Africa. The Dark Continent
doesn't get much love outside of the Marvel universe. Been to any good
African restaurants lately?

On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 12:14:52 +0100, D wrote:

>
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 17:08:28 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Pancreatic cancer is really nasty. We've lost a couple of friends
>>> that way. It presents no symptoms until you're already toast. The few
>>> cases I've heard of where people survived were due to a surgeon being
>>> in the area for something else and spotting it.
>>
>> I talked to my neighbor and he said he was ready to retire and do some
>> serious fishing. It was about two months after retirement and he was
>> dead.
>> I talked to his son and they had managed to get in a last fishing trip.
>> He'd started chemo but it did little good if not killing him faster.
>
> Was he very career oriented? I have a theory that many who are overly
> career oriented and place their full identity and value in their job and
> career, cannot handle forced retirement. When deprived of their jobs and
> careers, they just whither and die.

Not that I am aware of. I was never sure exactly what he did but it was
blue collar. Most blue collar workers see retirement as the carrot at the
end of the tunnel even if it doesn't turn out as sweet as anticipated. My
father was going to retire when I graduated college and also looked
forward to a lot of fishing and hunting. He died in January of my senior
year.