On 12/27/24 6:12 PM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 23/12/2024 21:14, D wrote:
>>> I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that remains of paganism
>>> were alive until the 1700s, but cannot find anything through a quick
>>> google. My friendly neighbourhood AI insist on official death in the
>>> 12:th century.
>>
>> This is a subject of heated debate as modern Wiccan/Pagans like to
>> feel they have an unbroken tradition.
>>
>> But of course people probably learned to keep their mouths shit and
>> rub themselves with witches ointment in private...
>
> I do not believe in any unbroken tradition except among indians,
> esquimaux or some siberian indians.
>
> I do believe that it is not impossible that remains existed up until the
> 17th or perhaps even 18th century, although those remains probably were
> _very_ different from the original.

"Unbroken" only so far as the current inhabitants knew -
they didn't really write it all down.

The tablets in Uruk and Ur mark the start of 'formal'
theologies. You can compare Now with Then because it's
all in writing. MAY be some stuff from further east,
Persia or the Indus valley, but so far ....

All hail Enki, bringer of Knowledge and Civilization -
the true Prometheus !

There ... "unbroken" :-)

On 12/27/24 6:31 AM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> On 12/26/24 11:57 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 21:41:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>     Read up on the Italian and Greek city-state eras.
>>>>     The "town over the hill" was always attacking.
>>>
>>> Thucydides got an Amazon best seller out of it. If the bible can be
>>> believed the tribal god was big on genocide when somebody else was
>>> living
>>> on the land he gave you. That hasn't changed a bit.
>>
>>
>>  Nope. Seems to be a 'human nature' thing ... hardwired
>>  will to dominance.
>
> But human nature can be changed! I'm not saying easily, and I'm not
> saying quickly, but small steps here and there are definitely possible.
> This is why the theory exists that mankind is not yet ready for
> socialism... or libertarianism! ;)

I'm gonna say "... can be CONFUSED", temporarily ...

>>  Things fell apart almost as quickly as they were put
>>  together. Alliances, sentiments, needs, changed very
>>  quickly. Kinda 'Game Of Thrones' but without the
>>  dragons.
>>
>>  Post-Rome, Europe was a MESS. Only Charlemagne kinda
>>  glued it together at all - but then almost only by
>>  the sword. Oddly, I think the Viking invasions did
>>  more to stabilize things - sort of the 'alien invasion'
>>  that brought petty gripes and ambitions more onto the
>>  same wavelength.
>>
>>  DaVinci's Italy was a constant war between the many
>>  city states for a long time. The Popes, while
>>  theoretically the ultimate authorities, instead
>>  seemed to just profit financially and politically
>>  from all the chaos and let it go on. Then a
>>  de Medici became Pope ........
>
> This is good! A city state does a lot less harm than a modern country.

This works well UNTIL some actual 'country' decides
to show up and take all your stuff.

Micro-fragmentation and inter-fragment wars is a big
part of why Rome was able to take SO much SO quickly.
Also why the Euros were able to subdue the AmerIndians
so quickly.

> That is why I like decentralization! With many city states, the
> competition for business will also be harder, which results in lower
> taxes as well!
>
> Unless we're talking socialist city states, or small monarchies. Those
> are not so fun. =(

Well, you MIGHT get a jolly king every so often ! :-)

OR dismal politicians and depressing bureaucrats ALL
of the time ....

On 12/27/24 1:04 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 12:31:55 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> But human nature can be changed! I'm not saying easily, and I'm not
>> saying quickly, but small steps here and there are definitely possible.
>> This is why the theory exists that mankind is not yet ready for
>> socialism... or libertarianism!
>
> After millennia the sheep breeding program has been less than successful.
> There have been entire religions spawned to convince the sheep a better
> world awaits them and they should be nice and well behaved in the
> meantime.

Well ......... they keep changing sheps too often.

But soon, the "AI" + net will provide consistent brainwashing
for generations on end.

Baaaah !

> I think socialists and libertarians are both dreamers. Sometimes they even
> recognize their affinity:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
>
> I'm not opposed to the dream. I like interesting fantasies. After all my
> work Linux box and one of my personal Linux boxes show
>
> $ hostname
> kropotkin
>
> Then morning comes and I wake up.

Um ... yea ... no 'ideal', just the Same Old Shit redux.

Of course part of that has to do with there being about
EIGHT BILLION ideas as to what "The Way Things Ought To Be"
actually MEANS down to the devilish details .......

On 12/28/24 1:09 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 00:02:09 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> I'm sure JFK Jr was convinced he had the coast in sight and was
>> maintaining level flight - right up until the belly hit a wave
>> .......
>
> The Buddy Holly wreck looked lke the pilot flew it into the ground. That's
> hard to do in Iowa unless you're seriously confused.

Light snow & mist at the time ....

Anyway, ALWAYS WATCH THE INSTRUMENTS !

On 12/27/24 6:34 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 27/12/2024 23:13, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> I agree with all of this. I think if you cannot be bothered, a low
>> cost index fund is a good choice.
>>
>>> -  aim for about 20% ROI and be happy when you get ten.
>>
>> Wow! My aim is to not lose money, and anynthing above that is extra on
>> top! ;)
>
> https://www.trustnet.com/fund/price-performance/o/ia-unit-trusts-and-oeics?norisk=true&sortby=P11GBP_D_60M&sortorder=desc&PageSize=25
>
>
> Pick a fund with good 1,3 and 5 year performance and then look into it
> and check it has the same fund manager.
>
> Ones with more stars are held to be less risky.
>
> Then do a little more research into what they invest in.
>
> Use your judgement and review every 6 months, sell the losers and double
> down on the winners

A lot of people go broke trying to guess the system,
imagining they will Get Rich Quick.

Solid stolid boring STOCKS are probably yer best
long-term investment. They often pay semi-decent
interest and their value adjusts for inflation -
'Paper Gold', so to speak. If they go down, they
usually come right back up and more within a year.

On 28/12/2024 02:00, rbowman wrote:

> When I was married we talked to an honest broker. He told us if we weren't
> willing to put the money on a roulette table in Vegas we shouldn't be in
> the market. We thanked him for his time and insights.
>
> Truth is, the whole topic bores me.

Me too, but it remains a way to supplement my pension

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On 28/12/2024 01:52, rbowman wrote:
> I don't know that much about Wicca but my impression is it invented a lot
> from the whole cloth while the heathens try harder for some historical
> accuracy. I use heathen versus pagan in the preferred sense.

I tend to agree.

The Wiccan thing - especially the female Wiccan thing - was more about
how they would have liked things to be than how it was.

--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

On 28/12/2024 04:44, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> Anyway, flying, the key phrase is "Don't Panic" ... that
>   junk on the dashboard will tell you all you need, IF you
>   will just pay attention.
Dashboard to pilot: "Sir you are in an inverted turn at 2000 feet
surround by mountain peaks at 5000".

:-)
--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 28/12/2024 04:51, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> In any case, as said, modern tech allows very very
>   stable flight. The fly-by-wire will read what you
>   WANT the thing to do so you're not stuck fighting
>   little tilts and drifts. George Jetson COULD fly
>   the things pretty easily (but shouldn't).

Its quite conceivable that some massively AI traffic control will take
over your personal quad-copter and shunt you into traffic lanes and get
you to your destination where your onboard AI will land you.

Does anyone remember the 'Quest of the DNA cowboys' my Mick Farren in
which series everybody ordered anything they wanted from 'Stuff Central'
a sort of prescient Amazon - and the material was sourced from areas of
reality know as the 'nothings' because there was nothing left there anymore.

Sometimes I think that is where we are headed...well apart from the
grave/personal incinerator, anyway.
--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 28/12/2024 05:06, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> "Modern Med" has become a serious MESS. If you have
>   insurance you will suddenly "need" large numbers of
>   "tests" and meds.
>
Its similar but different under the NHS.

As blame culture seeps in, the doctor tends to refer you in case you
have something nasty in the woodshed, so she/he cannot be blamed for
lack of care.
And there are guidelines laid down and computer accessible for exactly
what drug 'pathways' are to be recommended.

>   Hate seeing new docs, always have to give 'em The
>   Lecture about how we're not going There ....

I hate medics who are incompetent. And cause unnecessary pain.

--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift

On 28/12/2024 06:09, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 00:02:09 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> I'm sure JFK Jr was convinced he had the coast in sight and was
>> maintaining level flight - right up until the belly hit a wave
>> .......
>
> The Buddy Holly wreck looked lke the pilot flew it into the ground. That's
> hard to do in Iowa unless you're seriously confused.
I can totally imagine being seriously confused when your ground based
inherent sense of balance is distorted by air movements and tight G
turns. Being upside down going over the top of a loop at 1g feels like
level flight...

It takes a lot to override that and learn to trust the instruments, and
how many air accidents have been caused by instruments malfunctioning.

Pitot heads seem to be especially vulnerable to ice or insect infestation.

--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

On 28/12/2024 06:25, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> As for BRITS ... 'unbroken' maybe means a few thousand
>   years - but with every wave of invaders the 'gods' got
>   mixed, re-named, re-statused - and some just disappeared.
>
Indeed. The Celtic pantheon of nature spirits remains a dismal parody of
its formal self with just a few faeries, leprechauns and of course the
Morrigan.

>   Kinda like Hindu 'paganism' - the idea of god-beings with
>   such extreme power and 'generative potential' that a mere
>   passing thought could pop another god or god-like thing
>   into existence on the spot ... a nice kinda 'fractal'
>   look and feel  🙂
>
I cant see how Hinduism could have a pantheon. At its core its mostly
philosophy.

I always thought that their gods were understood to be symbols, nor 'real'

>   Know nothing about Chinese theology alas ... other than
>   that it had a lot of 'demons'. Gotta look into that. May
>   NOT entirely 'get it' alas because I wasn't born Chinese.
>   'Gods' kinda COMPLEMENT the culture rather than CREATE it.
>

Japanese is ancestor worship.

>   Oh, good movie/Harry Potter question - how come all
>   'spells' are done in LATIN ??? Did spirits/gods/etc
>   from 10,000 years ago all speak Latin too ???  🙂

Well traditionally necromancy texts were written in Hebrew or Latin, as
there was a close association between the religion and its antithesis.🙂

Although IIRC HP Lovecraft had a mad Arab somewhere on his demonology.
Abdul Alhazred, creator of the Necronomicon.

I mean it wouldn't make good drama for our Harry to mutter ' I say
great spiwwit, turn Malfoy into a spotted toad'

Clever people spoke Latin or Greek, back in the day.

--
It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house
for the voice of the kingdom.

Jonathan Swift

On 28/12/2024 06:45, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> This works well UNTIL some actual 'country' decides
>   to show up and take all your stuff.

When its fair weather saqling, you can open up the watertight doors.

When you are being swarmed by pirates and are holed beneath the
waterline, you close them

This is something the EU does not understand.
Under threat people form alliances naturally, when not under threat they
don't need 'harmonisation'.

--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

On 28/12/2024 06:52, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> After millennia the sheep breeding program has been less than successful.
>> There have been entire religions spawned to convince the sheep a better
>> world awaits them and they should be nice and well behaved in the
>> meantime.
>
>
>   Well ......... they keep changing sheps too often.

http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/Foxie.png

--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 27/12/2024 18:34, rbowman wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 12:32:46 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> I read the NT, never got around to the OT.
>>
>> Nietzsche said something about putting gloves on before reading the NT;
>> the OT needs a full hazmat suit. Most religions come up with a mythology
>> that isn't quite as appalling.
>
> There is a first rate Jewish scholar who traces the rise of Judaism and
> Christianity on You Tube. 'Esoterica' is the channel.
>
> Well worth it for people who are interested in religion from a non religious
> perspective.

Could be interesting. Thank you, will have a look!

On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 27/12/2024 23:12, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 23/12/2024 21:14, D wrote:
>>>> I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that remains of paganism were
>>>> alive until the 1700s, but cannot find anything through a quick google.
>>>> My friendly neighbourhood AI insist on official death in the 12:th
>>>> century.
>>>
>>> This is a subject of heated debate as modern Wiccan/Pagans like to feel
>>> they have an unbroken tradition.
>>>
>>> But of course people probably learned to keep their mouths shit and rub
>>> themselves with witches ointment in private...
>>
>> I do not believe in any unbroken tradition except among indians, esquimaux
>> or some siberian indians.
>>
>> I do believe that it is not impossible that remains existed up until the
>> 17th or perhaps even 18th century, although those remains probably were
>> _very_ different from the original.
>>
>>
> I am not going to argue: merely to say that modern Wicca started with Gardner
> who claimed to have been initiated by IIRC a Scottish witch in the practices
> of the 'old religion' .
>
> And started the modern following...

I'm not convinced that Gardnerian wicca represents an unbroken tradition.
But... who knows? ;) I've heard that this can give rise to bitter fights
among wiccans.

On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 27/12/2024 23:13, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> I agree with all of this. I think if you cannot be bothered, a low cost
>> index fund is a good choice.
>>
>>> -  aim for about 20% ROI and be happy when you get ten.
>>
>> Wow! My aim is to not lose money, and anynthing above that is extra on top!
>> ;)
>
> https://www.trustnet.com/fund/price-performance/o/ia-unit-trusts-and-oeics?norisk=true&sortby=P11GBP_D_60M&sortorder=desc&PageSize=25
>
> Pick a fund with good 1,3 and 5 year performance and then look into it and
> check it has the same fund manager.
>
> Ones with more stars are held to be less risky.
>
> Then do a little more research into what they invest in.
>
> Use your judgement and review every 6 months, sell the losers and double down
> on the winners

I would, if it would not be the case that my returns, have been quite good
while doing it myself. It is also a hobby and something I very much enjoy
doing.

But could very well be that something like you suggest is what I might do
when I get very old.

I meet very regularly with a fund manager at the company where I have my
stocks. He's a nice guy and we always have very good inspirational
discussions. He talks me through his decision process and why he buys what
he buys for his fund, and sometimes I tag a long, and sometimes I don't.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 00:31:08 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> This makes one think. How much is sickness, and how much is the belief
>> of sickness? It's almost as if a doctor can make things worse sometime.
>> =/
>
> Medicare provides for a yearly 'wellness' visit and I make use of it. I
> get along well with my doctor. She must have slept through Drug Pushing
> 101 in med school. There is a form to determine if a person would benefit
> from statins and according to her the answer is always 'yes'. She would
> prescribe them if I asked her to but it's not the default. At times she
> can be cynical abut her profession.

What are statins? Sometimes I feel very young here. ;) I remember my old
doctor. He operated on a push/pull methodology. If you wanted something,
he would not give it to you, if you did not want something, he would push
it. The reason I remember it, was that once my mother wanted something,
and he tried his best not to give it to her, and then the same week I went
there, he tried hard to push the same medication on me. He was fairly
grumpy and an extremely heavy smoker.

> I would prefer to blow my heart out on a steep mountain trail and become
> food for the bears to some long drawn out affair where 'medical science'
> tries to put off the inevitable.

This is the truth! After seeing my mothers cancer treatment that did not
work out in the end, I agree 100%. She went through 3 years of hell for
nothing. It did not help of course, that the doctor misdiagnosed her. She
was in tears and filed a law suit against herself. I do not blame her, I
blame the socialist system she works in, which made her over worked, and
therefore more likely to commit mistakes.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 00:29:50 +0100, D wrote:
>
>
>> In the housing community next to mine, they have a rule that all boats
>> by the lake must have name + phone number painted on them, or they will
>> be seen as abandoned and towed away. Hmm, come to think of it... maybe I
>> should check to see if there are any abandoned ones I can restore,
>> before exploring that canoe idea!
>
> It may have changed but then any power boat, even a small trolling motor,
> was required to be registered and would have a hull number. Canoes,
> rowboats, and small sailboats didn't.

Fortunately in that tiny lake, there are no powerboats! =)

>>
>> They are very cute. Did not know they liked to eat that stuff.
>
> They're much cuter if you don't have to live with them. They love salt and
> will chew up ax handles, outhouse seats, gloves, vehicle parts, or
> anything else they can get their paws on. Apparently plywood resin tastes
> good too.

But if you put out a small salt stone, I'm certain they would stop gnawing
at other things?

I would be very sad if they chewed on my axe handles.

> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/r10/forest-grasslandhealth/?
> cid=FSEPRD566459+
>
> That focuses on Alaska but wherever they are you can find damage. In this
> area the prevalent species at lower altitudes are Ponderosa pine, and
> Douglas fir, both of which are tasty. At higher elevations they'll chew
> of true fir and spruce.
>
> There is some confusion, at least in the US, but a porcupine definitely
> isn't a hedgehog. They do have their uses.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quillwork
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 00:12:19 +0100, D wrote:
>
>
>> I do not believe in any unbroken tradition except among indians,
>> esquimaux or some siberian indians.
>
> I would take those with a grain of salt too. For example
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbell_Trading_Post_National_Historic_Site
>
> When the Navajo showed up with their crude blankets Hubbell them they'd
> better come up with something a lot more attractive if the expected to
> sell them. And the legend was born.
>
> The traditional turquoise jewelry and pottery designs were taught to them
> by WPA art students, again trying to develop a product they could sell.

Very interesting! As always, colm is the best history channel there is! =)

>> I do believe that it is not impossible that remains existed up until the
>> 17th or perhaps even 18th century, although those remains probably were
>> _very_ different from the original.
>
> The 18th century Romantic movement and the earlier feeling that became
> known as the counter-enlightenment led to many like die Brüder Grimm
> digging around looking for roots just like Alex Haley did for Africans.
>
> I can understand the feeling. As we studied the glories of Rome in school
> I thought 'Wait a minute. My ancestors were those barbarians pillaging
> Rome and Ravenna. How about their history and beliefs?' The Christians did
> their best to bury them so you have to read between the lines. Tacitus may
> never have seen Germania in person. Snorri was a couple of hundred years
> after Iceland voted to be Christian. Saxo Grammaticus wrote historical
> fiction. And so on.

This is the truth. Snorri was a ninja!

> I don't know that much about Wicca but my impression is it invented a lot
> from the whole cloth while the heathens try harder for some historical
> accuracy. I use heathen versus pagan in the preferred sense.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathenry_(new_religious_movement)

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 00:24:33 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I agree! And also proverbs is quite similar to Havamal as well.
>
> True, although I don't think either mention keeping your spear handy.
>

True... you have to dig deep for those. This is what my AI says (caveat
emptor):

Ecclesiastes 9:18 - “Wisdom is better than weapons of war; but one
sinner destroys much good.”

Isaiah 54:17 - “No weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;
and every tongue that shall rise against you in judgment you shall
condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their
righteousness is of me, says the LORD.”

Jeremiah 51:20 - “You are my battle axe and weapons of war: for with
you will I break in pieces the nations; and with you will I destroy
kingdoms.”

Psalm 144:1 - “Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teaches my hands
to war, and my fingers to fight.”

Proverbs 25:18 - “A man who bears false witness against his neighbor
is like a sword, and a sharp arrow.”

2 Corinthians 10:4 - “For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal,
but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.”

On 28/12/2024 11:08, D wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 27/12/2024 23:12, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23/12/2024 21:14, D wrote:
>>>>> I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that remains of paganism
>>>>> were alive until the 1700s, but cannot find anything through a
>>>>> quick google. My friendly neighbourhood AI insist on official death
>>>>> in the 12:th century.
>>>>
>>>> This is a subject of heated debate as modern Wiccan/Pagans like to
>>>> feel they have an unbroken tradition.
>>>>
>>>> But of course people probably learned to keep their mouths shit and
>>>> rub themselves with witches ointment in private...
>>>
>>> I do not believe in any unbroken tradition except among indians,
>>> esquimaux or some siberian indians.
>>>
>>> I do believe that it is not impossible that remains existed up until
>>> the 17th or perhaps even 18th century, although those remains
>>> probably were _very_ different from the original.
>>>
>>>
>> I am not going to argue: merely to say that modern Wicca started with
>> Gardner who claimed to have been initiated by IIRC a Scottish witch in
>> the practices of the 'old religion' .
>>
>> And started the modern following...
>
> I'm not convinced that Gardnerian wicca represents an unbroken
> tradition. But... who knows? ;) I've heard that this can give rise to
> bitter fights among wiccans.

Oh yes. And the Cermoinial Magickians. And and and...

More in fighting in Wicca than the average private school girls toilets...
Or the average religious sect. The exclusive Plymouth brethren simply
will not talk to the ordinary Plymouth brethren etc. etc.

--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/27/24 6:31 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/26/24 11:57 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 21:41:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>     Read up on the Italian and Greek city-state eras.
>>>>>     The "town over the hill" was always attacking.
>>>>
>>>> Thucydides got an Amazon best seller out of it. If the bible can be
>>>> believed the tribal god was big on genocide when somebody else was living
>>>> on the land he gave you. That hasn't changed a bit.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Nope. Seems to be a 'human nature' thing ... hardwired
>>>  will to dominance.
>>
>> But human nature can be changed! I'm not saying easily, and I'm not saying
>> quickly, but small steps here and there are definitely possible. This is
>> why the theory exists that mankind is not yet ready for socialism... or
>> libertarianism! ;)
>
>
> I'm gonna say "... can be CONFUSED", temporarily ...
>
>
>>>  Things fell apart almost as quickly as they were put
>>>  together. Alliances, sentiments, needs, changed very
>>>  quickly. Kinda 'Game Of Thrones' but without the
>>>  dragons.
>>>
>>>  Post-Rome, Europe was a MESS. Only Charlemagne kinda
>>>  glued it together at all - but then almost only by
>>>  the sword. Oddly, I think the Viking invasions did
>>>  more to stabilize things - sort of the 'alien invasion'
>>>  that brought petty gripes and ambitions more onto the
>>>  same wavelength.
>>>
>>>  DaVinci's Italy was a constant war between the many
>>>  city states for a long time. The Popes, while
>>>  theoretically the ultimate authorities, instead
>>>  seemed to just profit financially and politically
>>>  from all the chaos and let it go on. Then a
>>>  de Medici became Pope ........
>>
>> This is good! A city state does a lot less harm than a modern country.
>
>
> This works well UNTIL some actual 'country' decides
> to show up and take all your stuff.
>
> Micro-fragmentation and inter-fragment wars is a big
> part of why Rome was able to take SO much SO quickly.
> Also why the Euros were able to subdue the AmerIndians
> so quickly.

This is why I'm thinking modern weapons technology might have changed the
playing field a bit. Nukes and biological warfare, enable a small player
to scare a big player. You also have blackmail, but that would require
constant and diligent work to keep the compromising information up to
date, when new leaders ascend.

Liechtenstein, Monaco and Andorra all have managed to survive as small
states longer than some modern countries have existed. They prove that it
is not impossible for a small entity to survive.

>> That is why I like decentralization! With many city states, the competition
>> for business will also be harder, which results in lower taxes as well!
>>
>> Unless we're talking socialist city states, or small monarchies. Those are
>> not so fun. =(
>
> Well, you MIGHT get a jolly king every so often ! :-)
>
> OR dismal politicians and depressing bureaucrats ALL
> of the time ....
>

On 28/12/2024 11:17, D wrote:
> What are statins? Sometimes I feel very young here. 😉 I remember my old
> doctor. He operated on a push/pull methodology. If you wanted something,
> he would not give it to you, if you did not want something, he would
> push it. The reason I remember it, was that once my mother wanted
> something, and he tried his best not to give it to her, and then the
> same week I went there, he tried hard to push the same medication on me.
> He was fairly grumpy and an extremely heavy smoker.
>
Well I have clooged arteries and have had 5 operatins to fixce them, but
they get clogged every year. I couldnt hanlde statins and they said that
all that cholestrol or somethinbg was clogging them

Now I have a bloody expensive fortnightly self adminitered injection,
which they say has worked.

I haven't needed another angioplasty since taking them.
So what statins do is worth doing. IF you can tolerate the side effects.

Or there are other medications.

Its a question of the least worst remedies. Everything has a side
effect. I tried beta blockers but felt like a zombie.

>> I would prefer to blow my heart out on a steep mountain trail and become
>> food for the bears to some long drawn out affair where 'medical science'
>> tries to put off the inevitable.
>

Well I am afraid I am fully on all the medical science can do to not
blow my heart out.
Most of what I now take seems to do the job, but the surgery made the
most difference, Dyno-rodding the arteries is a brutal but effective method

> This is the truth! After seeing my mothers cancer treatment that did not
> work out in the end, I agree 100%. She went through 3 years of hell for
> nothing. It did not help of course, that the doctor misdiagnosed her.
> She was in tears and filed a law suit against herself. I do not blame
> her, I blame the socialist system she works in, which made her over
> worked, and therefore more likely to commit mistakes.

Cancer is an utter bitch. I am on my second now, having fully survived
the first, but it is ultimately incurable, just very slow developing,
so its likely something else will kill me first.

The problem with some cancers is that by the time they are diagnosable,
they are already fatal. A friend died of fully metastasized bowel
cancer. The only symptom was that he was tired and a bit gaunt for years
and years, Then one day he went into hospital in total body pain and
died 3 weeks later.

Another friend was similar.

The cancer was never present in the bowel to any high degree, just
mounting back pain and lymph node lumps a few weeks before the end.

Some cancers are easy.. Some are harder and some are impossible.
GPs are not equipped for this. My GP threw me straight at oncology to
check out something suspicious. She is rather conscientious.

--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy

On 28/12/2024 11:33, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 00:24:33 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> I agree! And also proverbs is quite similar to Havamal as well.
>>
>> True, although I don't think either mention keeping your spear handy.
>>
>
> True... you have to dig deep for those. This is what my AI says (caveat
> emptor):
>
>     Ecclesiastes 9:18 - “Wisdom is better than weapons of war; but one
> sinner destroys much good.”
>
>     Isaiah 54:17 - “No weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;
> and every tongue that shall rise against you in judgment you shall
> condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their
> righteousness is of me, says the LORD.”
>
>     Jeremiah 51:20 - “You are my battle axe and weapons of war: for
> with you will I break in pieces the nations; and with you will I destroy
> kingdoms.”
>
>     Psalm 144:1 - “Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teaches my
> hands to war, and my fingers to fight.”
>
>     Proverbs 25:18 - “A man who bears false witness against his
> neighbor is like a sword, and a sharp arrow.”
>
>     2 Corinthians 10:4 - “For the weapons of our warfare are not
> carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.”

"Kind words and a gun go further than kind words alone" - Al Capone

--
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.