On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:35:14 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> This is very beautiful! I should get an NRA hat as well to give myself
>> an option for when the MAGA hat is not quite right.
>
> Join and you get trinkets. I've got a couple of the hats, proudly made in
> China by 11 year old slaves. I've very mixed feelings about the NRA and
> have dropped my membership a couple of times. I was overjoyed when that
> greasy bastard LaPierre got booted. However it does support legislation to
> preserve rights.

Just the fact that a swedish socialist might give me the evil eye is
enough for me to get an NRA hat! ;)

> Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership is a very minor league
> player but makes good points.
>
> https://jpfo.org/
>
> They had a few hard years when Zelman, the founder, died but carried on.
> If there is any group that shouldn't want to be sitting there in their
> underwear when Big Brother calls it's the American Jews. Somehow the anti-
> gun, pro-immigration stance doesn't hold up when it comes to Netanyahu and
> the boys. Lot of cognitive dissonance there.
>

On 05/01/2025 12:06, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> So locusts arent natural either?
>> Hmm.
>> I wonder if you know you are looking through a religious lens?
>
> Don't you worry about the locusts! I think we discussed a long time ago,
> the possibility of capturing the swarming african locusts and creating
> the worlds most successful insect protein company! Problem solved, and
> we'll make a lot of money at the same time! =D

Locusts here are simply an example.

The issue is the post Christian Garden-of-Eden eternal (= sustainable
and renewable) Paradise of Total Perfection (some point at which the
climate and ecosystem were in fact Perfect) ...and the concept of the
Original Sin of man tampering with it and making it morally *worse*.

99.99% of all species that ever existed were extinct long before humans
appeared and the amount of climate change the Earth has undergone in its
history dwarfs the 0.4°C rise since 1950 or whatever they latest wet
finger estimate is...

...we may have lost religion, but Puritanism and Nature worship is back
with a vengeance.

--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!”

Mary Wollstonecraft

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 1/4/25 3:48 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>
>>> On 04/01/2025 15:58, TJ wrote:
>>>> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
>>>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
>>>> mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>>>
>>> The point is that far far more drastic changes have happened without
>>> modern humanity being involved.
>>
>> Nah, the point is that the effect of modern humanity have caused changes
>> far more rapidly than normal, leaving ecosystems/species little time to
>> adapt.
>
>
> 'Nature' often does that all by itself - volcanoes,
> ocean-current shifts, flood and drought, meteors,
> botanical plagues - and the SCALE of rapid change
> is HUGE, oft global.
>
> So don't get TOO worked up about our alleged few
> tenths of a degree changes ...
>

You are a wise man!

D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> ... The climate has always changed, and humanity has always
> successfully adapted.

Be careful there. The total time of "human existance" on this earth is
but a small sliver compared to the total time of existence of the earth
itself.

While 'humanity' has, so far, adapted to the changes the climate has
thrown at us for the small percentage of total earth time we have
existed, the fossil record does record some rather drastic historic
climate changes that very well could be beyond our ability to adapt to
(i.e., they would be 'human extinction events' if they were to reoccur).

So while we have adapted to the changes we've seen, so far, we've not
had to adapt to all the possible changes the earth is capable of
throwing at us (because we were not around for most of those changes).

On 05/01/2025 16:45, Rich wrote:
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> ... The climate has always changed, and humanity has always
>> successfully adapted.
>
> Be careful there. The total time of "human existance" on this earth is
> but a small sliver compared to the total time of existence of the earth
> itself.
>
> While 'humanity' has, so far, adapted to the changes the climate has
> thrown at us for the small percentage of total earth time we have
> existed, the fossil record does record some rather drastic historic
> climate changes that very well could be beyond our ability to adapt to
> (i.e., they would be 'human extinction events' if they were to reoccur).
>
> So while we have adapted to the changes we've seen, so far, we've not
> had to adapt to all the possible changes the earth is capable of
> throwing at us (because we were not around for most of those changes).
>
Indeed. But those changes are beyond our ability to control.

So when and if they happen, we will have to adapt - or die.

The current fashion for 'sustainability' is ephemeral bollocks. A fairy
story for children. Who do not understand the world, but simply dream of
what - in their infantile fantasy - it *ought* to be, with absolutely
no clear idea of whether it could ever be that way.

If we ever get some grown ups in charge of anything we might do far
better to work out what is possible, and what its affordable, and do
that instead.

--
Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice.
– Will Durant

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 05/01/2025 12:06, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> So locusts arent natural either?
>>> Hmm.
>>> I wonder if you know you are looking through a religious lens?
>>
>> Don't you worry about the locusts! I think we discussed a long time ago,
>> the possibility of capturing the swarming african locusts and creating the
>> worlds most successful insect protein company! Problem solved, and we'll
>> make a lot of money at the same time! =D
>
> Locusts here are simply an example.
>
> The issue is the post Christian Garden-of-Eden eternal (= sustainable and
> renewable) Paradise of Total Perfection (some point at which the climate and
> ecosystem were in fact Perfect) ...and the concept of the Original Sin of man
> tampering with it and making it morally *worse*.
>
> 99.99% of all species that ever existed were extinct long before humans
> appeared and the amount of climate change the Earth has undergone in its
> history dwarfs the 0.4°C rise since 1950 or whatever they latest wet finger
> estimate is...

This is very interesting! I always thought it was 95%:ish or so, but I
won't quarrel with 99.99% either. ;)

As for the amount of climate change, this is very important to highlight.
People today become hysterical over a winter without snow, despite the
fact, that this has happened many, many times all over the world.

I think you point to a very important historical fact that more people
should be aware of.

> ..we may have lost religion, but Puritanism and Nature worship is back with a
> vengeance.

It's almost as if it is a human reflex. Since it has been denied religion
as an outlet, it creates something else, and manifests itself 10x worse.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2025-01-04 16:58, TJ wrote:
>> On 2025-01-03 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 03/01/2025 18:37, -hh wrote:
>>>> On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from the
>> sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can deny the
>> changes in the climate right here where I live.
>>
>> I'm a farmer, the third generation of my family to own and operate this
>> small chunk of the world. Among other crops, we have raised vegetables and
>> sold them on a roadside farm stand since 1962. We have records going back
>> most of that time, with small notes about things like the weather.
>>
>> 50 years ago, while there were exceptions (there are ALWAYS exceptions when
>> taking about weather trends), we could pretty much count on the first
>> killing frost happening between September 20 and the 25th.
>>
>> The last 10 years or so, that event has moved to October 5-10. And in 2024,
>> the first killing frost was on October 25th.
>>
>> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic mechanism
>> is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>
>> But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are
>> willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
>> population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
>
> Same way we changed it, we can change it back. We'll die if we don't.
>
>>
>> I'm not willing to do that, and I don't think anyone else is, either. So
>> what I'll do is continue to take advantage of the changes that are
>> happening, adapting as best I can.
>>
>> I can now grow fruits and vegetables that I couldn't dream of 50 years ago.
>> Better, long-season varieties that I couldn't grow when I was a kid. For
>> now, the climate is changing toward being better, here. That won't last,
>> but it'll probably last longer than I do.
>
> You are fortunate. In my area, the climate has gone desert like and crops die
> because there is not enough water. The increased energy in the system means
> storms are stronger, even devastating. They often destroy crops.

The sad thing is that you are surrounded by water on 3 sides, yet insist
on not building out enormous deslination plants powered by solar that
would solve all problems. Another fix would be to fix water leakage in
southern spain. I've heard that 40% of the water is wasted in leaks in the
system. A third story I heard, was that Franco was well aware of potential
water shortage and have plans to build out dams and irrigation. Sadly when
socialists came to power and Franco died, all this was forgotten.

The lack of water in spain is 100% fixable. All it takes is science,
technology and political will.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, Rich wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> ... The climate has always changed, and humanity has always
>> successfully adapted.
>
> Be careful there. The total time of "human existance" on this earth is
> but a small sliver compared to the total time of existence of the earth
> itself.
>
> While 'humanity' has, so far, adapted to the changes the climate has
> thrown at us for the small percentage of total earth time we have
> existed, the fossil record does record some rather drastic historic
> climate changes that very well could be beyond our ability to adapt to
> (i.e., they would be 'human extinction events' if they were to reoccur).
>
> So while we have adapted to the changes we've seen, so far, we've not
> had to adapt to all the possible changes the earth is capable of
> throwing at us (because we were not around for most of those changes).

We have achienved something no other species has done. Science. Add to
that the ability to plan long term, and there's nothing to fear. We can
even nudge asteroids out of the way, should it be necessary. I'd argue,
that we've actually far, far safer from changes in climate and our
surroundings than we have ever been before.

On 2025-01-05 20:56, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> On 2025-01-04 16:58, TJ wrote:
>>> On 2025-01-03 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 03/01/2025 18:37, -hh wrote:
>>>>> On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse
>>>>>>> code:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles
>>> from the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean
>>> I can deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>>>
>>> I'm a farmer, the third generation of my family to own and operate
>>> this small chunk of the world. Among other crops, we have raised
>>> vegetables and sold them on a roadside farm stand since 1962. We have
>>> records going back most of that time, with small notes about things
>>> like the weather.
>>>
>>> 50 years ago, while there were exceptions (there are ALWAYS
>>> exceptions when taking about weather trends), we could pretty much
>>> count on the first killing frost happening between September 20 and
>>> the 25th.
>>>
>>> The last 10 years or so, that event has moved to October 5-10. And in
>>> 2024, the first killing frost was on October 25th.
>>>
>>> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural,
>>> or man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
>>> mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>>
>>> But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we
>>> are willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
>>> population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
>>
>> Same way we changed it, we can change it back. We'll die if we don't.
>>
>>>
>>> I'm not willing to do that, and I don't think anyone else is, either.
>>> So what I'll do is continue to take advantage of the changes that are
>>> happening, adapting as best I can.
>>>
>>> I can now grow fruits and vegetables that I couldn't dream of 50
>>> years ago. Better, long-season varieties that I couldn't grow when I
>>> was a kid. For now, the climate is changing toward being better,
>>> here. That won't last, but it'll probably last longer than I do.
>>
>> You are fortunate. In my area, the climate has gone desert like and
>> crops die because there is not enough water. The increased energy in
>> the system means storms are stronger, even devastating. They often
>> destroy crops.
>
> The sad thing is that you are surrounded by water on 3 sides, yet insist
> on not building out enormous deslination plants powered by solar that
> would solve all problems.

Where do you get that idea? A lot of the water in my area comes from
desalinization.

> Another fix would be to fix water leakage in
> southern spain. I've heard that 40% of the water is wasted in leaks in
> the system.

That is in some cities. The average is 15%.

<https://theobjective.com/espana/2023-08-12/perdida-agua-averias-fugas-comunidades/>

> A third story I heard, was that Franco was well aware of
> potential water shortage and have plans to build out dams and
> irrigation. Sadly when socialists came to power and Franco died, all
> this was forgotten.

No, it wasn't. Simply all the places where damns were feasible had been
used.

> The lack of water in spain is 100% fixable. All it takes is science,
> technology and political will.

Not really.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 09:17:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Í'd far rather people like Bezos or Musk, or Soros, or Gates had those
> billions instead of a faceless government bureaucracy.
>
> People can occasionally do the right thing, and if not, you know where
> they live...

There does seem to be sort of a fan club for the kid who popped the CEO.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 13:01:07 +0100, D wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
>>> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
>>> deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>>
>> I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the
>> whole area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'.
>> Things change.
>>
>>
> How are you preparing in case that should happen again? There's no
> better time to prepare than right now!

No problem. I'm just above the 100 year flood plain. The pasture out back
has been underwater a couple of times.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 13:12:16 +0100, D wrote:

> I spoke with a science fiction author on a mailinglist I'm a member of,
> and he said, for the love of god, never write a book because you expect
> to earn money on it. Apparently it is not the royal road to riches.

For every Martin or Clancy there are many starving authors. One of the
benefits of outlets like Amazon/Kindle is an author can self publish and
possibly make a few dollars rather than the vanity press model that was a
dollar sink. From a reader's viewpoint it means I have a selection of
authors I enjoy that never would have appeared in the conventional
publishing industry.

Amazon Prime offers a selection of free books every month. I've found a
few gems but the selections are heavily oriented toward chick lit and not
very good. I don't know how well the attempted jump start works. I do
better with the 'because you read...' suggestions.

On 2025-01-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> We have achienved something no other species has done. Science.

Someone once pointed out, though, that for all the great things
science can do, it can't make the sun shine brighter or the
rivers run faster. If our consumption continues to increase,
sooner or later we'll hit the crunch.

> Add to that the ability to plan long term, and there's nothing
> to fear.

Given the scarcity of companies that can see past the next quarter,
I think there's quite a lot to fear.

> We can even nudge asteroids out of the way, should it be necessary.

Or not. See the Netflix movie _Don't Look Up_.

> I'd argue, that we've actually far, far safer from changes in
> climate and our surroundings than we have ever been before.

Well, the rich folk are, at least.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On Sun, 05 Jan 2025 23:47:18 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

>> Add to that the ability to plan long term, and there's nothing to fear.
>
> Given the scarcity of companies that can see past the next quarter,
> I think there's quite a lot to fear.

I'm not sure the government even looks that far ahead. It was hybris to
talk about a thousand year Reich but at least they were thinking about it.
I think it was in Speer's autobiography where he talked about designing
buildings that would make scenic ruins in a thousand years.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2025-01-05 20:56, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> On 2025-01-04 16:58, TJ wrote:
>>>> On 2025-01-03 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 03/01/2025 18:37, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
>>>> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
>>>> deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>>>>
>>>> I'm a farmer, the third generation of my family to own and operate this
>>>> small chunk of the world. Among other crops, we have raised vegetables
>>>> and sold them on a roadside farm stand since 1962. We have records going
>>>> back most of that time, with small notes about things like the weather.
>>>>
>>>> 50 years ago, while there were exceptions (there are ALWAYS exceptions
>>>> when taking about weather trends), we could pretty much count on the
>>>> first killing frost happening between September 20 and the 25th.
>>>>
>>>> The last 10 years or so, that event has moved to October 5-10. And in
>>>> 2024, the first killing frost was on October 25th.
>>>>
>>>> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
>>>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic mechanism
>>>> is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>>>
>>>> But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are
>>>> willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
>>>> population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
>>>
>>> Same way we changed it, we can change it back. We'll die if we don't.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not willing to do that, and I don't think anyone else is, either. So
>>>> what I'll do is continue to take advantage of the changes that are
>>>> happening, adapting as best I can.
>>>>
>>>> I can now grow fruits and vegetables that I couldn't dream of 50 years
>>>> ago. Better, long-season varieties that I couldn't grow when I was a kid.
>>>> For now, the climate is changing toward being better, here. That won't
>>>> last, but it'll probably last longer than I do.
>>>
>>> You are fortunate. In my area, the climate has gone desert like and crops
>>> die because there is not enough water. The increased energy in the system
>>> means storms are stronger, even devastating. They often destroy crops.
>>
>> The sad thing is that you are surrounded by water on 3 sides, yet insist on
>> not building out enormous deslination plants powered by solar that would
>> solve all problems.
>
> Where do you get that idea? A lot of the water in my area comes from
> desalinization.
>
>> Another fix would be to fix water leakage in southern spain. I've heard
>> that 40% of the water is wasted in leaks in the system.
>
> That is in some cities. The average is 15%.
>
> <https://theobjective.com/espana/2023-08-12/perdida-agua-averias-fugas-comunidades/>
>
>> A third story I heard, was that Franco was well aware of potential water
>> shortage and have plans to build out dams and irrigation. Sadly when
>> socialists came to power and Franco died, all this was forgotten.
>
> No, it wasn't. Simply all the places where damns were feasible had been used.
>
>
>> The lack of water in spain is 100% fixable. All it takes is science,
>> technology and political will.
>
> Not really.

Read me lips... desalination. ;)

On Mon, 5 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 13:12:16 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I spoke with a science fiction author on a mailinglist I'm a member of,
>> and he said, for the love of god, never write a book because you expect
>> to earn money on it. Apparently it is not the royal road to riches.
>
> For every Martin or Clancy there are many starving authors. One of the
> benefits of outlets like Amazon/Kindle is an author can self publish and
> possibly make a few dollars rather than the vanity press model that was a
> dollar sink. From a reader's viewpoint it means I have a selection of
> authors I enjoy that never would have appeared in the conventional
> publishing industry.
>
> Amazon Prime offers a selection of free books every month. I've found a
> few gems but the selections are heavily oriented toward chick lit and not
> very good. I don't know how well the attempted jump start works. I do
> better with the 'because you read...' suggestions.

This is the truth! I once met a man who's wife was a semi-famous author in
brazil. Apparently, she started self publishing erotic novels on amazon
and out of all countries on the planet, brazil seemed to like them. So a
time or two per year, she went on a tour to brazil to sign autographs and
sell her latest book.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2025-01-05, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> We have achienved something no other species has done. Science.
>
> Someone once pointed out, though, that for all the great things
> science can do, it can't make the sun shine brighter or the
> rivers run faster. If our consumption continues to increase,
> sooner or later we'll hit the crunch.

We can use things more effectively, we can build nuclear. In terms of
power we have no problem out all. This is a solved problem and only
requires political will.

>> Add to that the ability to plan long term, and there's nothing
>> to fear.
>
> Given the scarcity of companies that can see past the next quarter,
> I think there's quite a lot to fear.

There are companies that are older than countries.

>> We can even nudge asteroids out of the way, should it be necessary.
>
> Or not. See the Netflix movie _Don't Look Up_.

Sorry, forgot that source of eternal truth.

>> I'd argue, that we've actually far, far safer from changes in
>> climate and our surroundings than we have ever been before.
>
> Well, the rich folk are, at least.

You can become rich too! Remember the locust protein company we've been
talking about. The idea is just sitting there for you to realize it! =D

On Mon, 6 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Jan 2025 23:47:18 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>>> Add to that the ability to plan long term, and there's nothing to fear.
>>
>> Given the scarcity of companies that can see past the next quarter,
>> I think there's quite a lot to fear.
>
> I'm not sure the government even looks that far ahead. It was hybris to
> talk about a thousand year Reich but at least they were thinking about it.
> I think it was in Speer's autobiography where he talked about designing
> buildings that would make scenic ruins in a thousand years.
>

The government looks at most 4 years ahead. They have serfs and not
customers. That's why companies always crush the government and always do
better, unless they live off government handouts, in which case they are
really just a branch of government.

On 2025-01-05 14:57, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, TJ wrote:
>
>> On 2025-01-04 16:50, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
>>>> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
>>>> deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>>>
>>> I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the
>>> whole
>>> area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things
>>> change.
>>
>> I'm closer to 1500', with rolling drumlins left behind by glaciers and
>> it's similar here. I've been told since childhood that our area used
>> to be under an "inland sea." There are tons of fossils of sea life
>> around, shellfish, trilobites, and the like, but I couldn't say for
>> sure they weren't imported by those glaciers from somewhere else.
>>
>> One thing, anyway. If the climatologists are correct, then humans are
>> to be congratulated. Through global cooperation and diligent effort,
>> we have successfully staved off the Ice Age that was predicted in the
>> 1970s to be headed our way.
>>
>> TJ
>
> Cooling is what we should all fear. Warming, if anything, has always
> been correlated with civilizational advance and prosperity.

The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, so I
don't see how one is worse than the other.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, so I
> don't see how one is worse than the other.

Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a fuck
of a lot of fresh water

--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

Joel wrote:
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, -hh wrote:
>>
>>> These actions you're defending as 'unjust' were things like killing someone
>>> because they happened to be gay/black/different, right?
>>
>> If I want to kill a homo, why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? I mean,
>> it's just common sense really, and it also is good for the race.
>
>
> I should be involuntarily committed to a residential psychiatric
> facility.
>
>

https://postimg.cc/zbsxh1Fx

On 2025-01-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:

> On 2025-01-05 14:57, D wrote:
>
>> Cooling is what we should all fear. Warming, if anything, has always
>> been correlated with civilizational advance and prosperity.
>
> The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general,
> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

-- Robert Frost (1874-1963): Fire and Ice

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
>> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, so
>> I don't see how one is worse than the other.
>
> Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a fuck
> of a lot of fresh water

If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>> The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
>>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
>>> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general,
>>> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
>>
>> Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a
>> fuck of a lot of fresh water
>
> If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
> inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
> continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in
> thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being
> used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
>
Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than
Scotland

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 1/6/25 2:09 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>> The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
>>>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
>>>> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general,
>>>> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
>>>
>>> Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a
>>> fuck of a lot of fresh water
>>
>> If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
>> inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
>> continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time
>> in thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really
>> being used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
>>
> Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian
> tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than
> Scotland
>

Hope you're a big fan of midges.

<https://www.highlandtitles.com/blog/midges/>

-hh