On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:38:29 +0100, D wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:47:27 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> I am surprised that eco-fascists are not protesting against the big IT
>>> corporations. But most likely that would not result in higher taxes
>>> and more power to socialist politicians, so that is probably why they
>>> are ignored.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_green_environmentalism
>>
>> They love their technology. They want their iPhones, VR goggles, AI
>> friends, EVs and so forth to be powered by some unspecified miracle,
>>
>>
> Ahh... the stupidity of modern eco-fascism never ceases to amaze!

I believe I've mentioned Derek Jensen and Deep Green Resistance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Green_Resistance

Whatever you think of Jensen his book demolishes the fantasies of the
people who want 'alternative' sources to provide a painless way to
maintain their lifestyles while feeling good about themselves.

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:35:14 +0100, D wrote:

> This is very beautiful! I should get an NRA hat as well to give myself
> an option for when the MAGA hat is not quite right.

Join and you get trinkets. I've got a couple of the hats, proudly made in
China by 11 year old slaves. I've very mixed feelings about the NRA and
have dropped my membership a couple of times. I was overjoyed when that
greasy bastard LaPierre got booted. However it does support legislation to
preserve rights.

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership is a very minor league
player but makes good points.

https://jpfo.org/

They had a few hard years when Zelman, the founder, died but carried on.
If there is any group that shouldn't want to be sitting there in their
underwear when Big Brother calls it's the American Jews. Somehow the anti-
gun, pro-immigration stance doesn't hold up when it comes to Netanyahu and
the boys. Lot of cognitive dissonance there.

On 2025-01-04, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
> On 1/3/25 7:06 PM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/01/2025 20:04, rbowman wrote:
>>>> What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
>>>> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
>>>
>>> Yes. Absolutely it does.
>>>
>>> Civilised behaviour is a culture of tolerance. Woke is a culture of
>>> vicious intolerance towards anyone who challenges a narrow definition
>>> of a modern Puritanism.
>>>
>>> Civilised behaviour doesn't get you fired. Civilised behaviour doesn't
>>> get you blacklisted.
>>>
>>> Woke is part of the reason Trump will be president. People don't like
>>> being told what to think. This isn't Putin's Russia.
>>
>> This is the truth. What we are seeing is a big reaction against the mind
>> virus. In europe, a big part of the reaction is against immigration and
>> eco-fascism.
>
>
> Civilized, esp SANE, behavior DOES get you
> fired these days ... or at least before
> Trump 2.0 ... LOTS of examples.

Six on Friday the 13th, November, 2020. Sorry, but
I can't safely say any more about it at this time.

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, -hh wrote:

>>   USENET isn't what it was ... has kinda fallen off
>>   the proverbial radar. IMHO this is kinda GOOD.
>
> As much as the 'Eternal September' days of disruption were a nuisance, the
> downside today is a manifestation of aging and decline: there's probably
> zero current participants in these newsgroups who are under age 40 ... and
> the average age is probably closer to 65.

This is a feature, not a bug! What you say above is exactly why I enjoy reading
and writing on usenet, versus social media. I hope it remains this way. ;)

>>   Shit ... when I first got into Usenet the AI guru
>>   Minsky used to post to the AI groups - things were
>>   respectable then.
>
> I can recall chatting with John Godwin about the Internet Law named after him
> (“As an online discussion continues, the probability of a comparison to
> Hitler or to Nazis approaches one").

Maybe he is here, right now, reading this?

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, Farley Flud wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:21:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>>
>> What a load of totally opinionated irrelevant crap.
>> This computer is a tool. I create words. I create engineering drawings.
>> I create web sites.
>>
>> This is a tool that allows me to do this.
>>
>> In the UK we have another meaning of 'tool'.
>> It fits you exactly
>>
>
> In the real world we have a term that describes the subservient
> technical class to which you belong:
>
> Flunky
>
> Now go and do as you're told. Don't concern yourself with
> the ways of the Masters.

Ahhh... comp.os.linux.advocacy at its best!

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2025-01-04 01:27, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:49:55 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I saw
>>> it in a garage many decades ago.
>>
>> Oh, the 900. I've seen a few of those. Saabs always were a minority brand
>> in the US. I liked the old ones, but there were some really strange beasts
>> like the Sonnet II. I don't know why there was a Volvo on every block
>> while Saabs were driven by middle-aged lesbians.
>
> Volvo used to be synonymous with safety and they were built to last forever.
> It was their reputation and it was very much the reality. Once Ford bought
> the company though, everything went downhill. Now the Chinese own them and I
> can't help but notice that they're at the bottom in the reliability index.

This is the truth! It is also what you would expect in a socialist country
like sweden. Slowly, year by year, companies get acquired, since they
cannot be run profitably with the enormous regulations and taxes that
sweden imposes.

Add to that, that the EU tries its best to sabotage sweden as well by
denying the proposed Renault Volvo merger and has blocked sweden from
selling snus in the EU since time immemorial. Few countries have lost so
much as sweden by being in the EU. Fortunately they don't have the euro,
but the politicians are trying hard to force it on the people. For
instance, they have already aligned the physical shape and color of the
currency in preparation for at some future point in time, forcing the euro
on the people.

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, TJ wrote:

> On 2025-01-03 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/01/2025 18:37, -hh wrote:
>>> On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>> Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science
>>>>>>> has found the primary energy imbalance reason why:  its
>>>>>>> anthropometric.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
>>>>>> changed
>>>>>
>>>>> This source disagrees:
>>>>>
>>>>>      https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article
>>>>> mentions that
>>>>> as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's an interesting read.
>>>>
>>>> Well I will merely quote from the Wiki:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level
>>>>
>>>> "Sea level has changed over geologic time. As the graph shows, sea level
>>>> today is very near the *lowest level ever attained*  (the lowest level
>>>> occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250 million years ago)."
>>>>
>>>> "Recently, it has become widely accepted that late Holocene, 3,000
>>>> calendar years ago to present, sea level was nearly stable prior to an
>>>> acceleration of rate of rise that is variously dated between 1850 and
>>>> 1900 AD."
>>>>
>>>> *Long before any CO2 excess was present*.
>>>
>>> Yes, the rate of raise was nearly stable **before** the Industrial Age.
>>>
>>> Which is the point:  the contemporary acceleration in the rate of rise is
>>> a change, and it is coincident with the advent of the Industrial Age.
>>>
>> But LONG before any distinctive rise in CO2, which really dint start until
>> post WWII
>>
>> So no correlation with CO2 at all.
>> Try not to be a climate denier
>>
>>
>>
> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from the
> sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can deny the
> changes in the climate right here where I live.
>
> I'm a farmer, the third generation of my family to own and operate this small
> chunk of the world. Among other crops, we have raised vegetables and sold
> them on a roadside farm stand since 1962. We have records going back most of
> that time, with small notes about things like the weather.
>
> 50 years ago, while there were exceptions (there are ALWAYS exceptions when
> taking about weather trends), we could pretty much count on the first killing
> frost happening between September 20 and the 25th.
>
> The last 10 years or so, that event has moved to October 5-10. And in 2024,
> the first killing frost was on October 25th.
>
> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic mechanism is
> probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>
> But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are
> willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human population,
> give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
>
> I'm not willing to do that, and I don't think anyone else is, either. So what
> I'll do is continue to take advantage of the changes that are happening,
> adapting as best I can.
>
> I can now grow fruits and vegetables that I couldn't dream of 50 years ago.
> Better, long-season varieties that I couldn't grow when I was a kid. For now,
> the climate is changing toward being better, here. That won't last, but it'll
> probably last longer than I do.
>
> TJ
>

You are a wise man! The climate has always changed, and humanity has
always successfully adapted. Adapting is a way better strategy than trying
to change the weather of the entire climate, by moving people back to the
middle ages. That will result in death and destruction and wars on a
global scale.

As for the climate, it is mostly a natural phenomenon, proven by the fact
that we've seen massive changes before mankind discovered CO2.

Granted, on a micro scale, man can, and does, affect the climate. It tends
for instance, to be warmer in cities than outside cities, and this is man
made. But we don't become hysteric over this.

Increased harvests, and increased forestation of the planet, as proven by
nasa, will be of enormous benefit to mankind. We should actually fear
cooling as a species.

Last but not least, my favourite fun fact... media loves to harp on how
many people die because of heat, but conveniently never tells us that 10x
the people die of cold. This is forbidden! ;)

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2025-01-04, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>
>> My father was a racist - northern racist.
>
> Q: What's the difference between a northern racist and a
> southern racist?
>
> A: A southern racist doesn't mind black people living
> close by as long as they don't get uppity.
> A northern racist doesn't mind black people getting
> uppity as long as they don't live close by.

Brilliant!

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
>
>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
>> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
>> deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>
> I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the whole
> area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things change.
>

How are you preparing in case that should happen again? There's no better
time to prepare than right now!

On 2025-01-05 02:54, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> On 1/4/25 9:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2025-01-04 17:13, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>> On 1/4/25 10:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>> On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>> On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Nobara,
>>>>>>>>>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people
>>>>>>>>>>>> who try out
>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the
>>>>>>>>>>>> basics, and they
>>>>>>>>>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>>>>>>>>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>> and offers a
>>>>>>>>>>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the
>>>>>>>>>>>> desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the widgets
>>>>>>>>>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd rather
>>>>>>>>>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications'
>>>>>>>>>>> button that
>>>>>>>>>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
>>>>>>>>>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name
>>>>>>>>>> of what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu.
>>>>>>>>>> That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I
>>>>>>>>>> would agree with their design choice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a
>>>>>>>>> menu. Its very XP like.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to
>>>>>>>>> Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still
>>>>>>> built on gnome3  libraries AFAIK
>>>>>>> And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all
>>>>>> the better.
>>>>>
>>>>>    GTK3 is a little better.
>>>>>
>>>>>    MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
>>>>>    LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
>>>>>    and it's sane and does what you need the way
>>>>>    you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
>>>>>    and XP experience.
>>>>>
>>>>>    DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
>>>>>    DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
>>>>>    advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
>>>>>    Nice simple GUI with few frills.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I
>>>> remember correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I
>>>> bought my parents in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as
>>>> interesting though. I used it for a moment a few months ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>    LXQt ... just ain't the same somehow - different feel.
>>>    Was still buggy too when I was fooling around with it.
>>>    'PCManFM'-qt also wasn't as friendly.
>>>
>>>    Anyway, my choices are LXDE or, second, XFCE. I do not
>>>    care for 'eye candy' or excessive 'integration' much.
>>>    KDE obviously went in the other direction, almost may
>>>    as well buy Winders.
>>>
>>>    At least with Linux there are MANY choices for desktops.
>>
>> It's the customization options of KDE that got me interested. You can
>> customize GNOME to an extent, but it's needlessly difficult whereas
>> KDE includes just about everything you would need immediately. XFCE is
>> even more customizable, but I find it to be somewhat dated.
>> Additionally, it is way too easy to break something specifically
>> because of how open it is to being modified by the user.
>
>   Well, I never try to mod it very much - so no probs.
>
>   Biggest issues revolve around kinda faulty detection
>   of the mousepad. Had to go kinda deep and weird to
>   help there. Were also a few brightness-default issues
>   with the display (but that was X-related, not so
>   much XFCE). Had these issues with several distros,
>   they don't seem to like laptops. Probs with HPs and
>   with some Dells also (including the latest Fedora).
>
>   Anyway, LXDE is what does it for me. "Dated" is
>   JUST GREAT in my aesthetic  :-)

I used to not have a problem with things that were dated either since
they used less RAM and ended up being more responsive, but I started to
miss certain subtle additions in newer interfaces. With 32GB of RAM, you
stop being so anal about high memory usage too.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 2025-01-05 04:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/01/2025 07:54, Physfitfreak wrote:
>> Germany had 3000 back then, and now has 5000 per million.
>
> My sister's German  ex-husband who probably supports AfD, said 'we have
> now 50 professors of gender studies in Germany, and only two atom
> scientists!'

Now that Germans and Brits can no longer safely go to a Christmas
celebration and have to worry about their wives being raped and their
daughters groomed by gangs, I wonder if they _finally_ have the courage
to admit that their multicultural experiment not only failed but is
destroying their culture altogether.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 2025-01-04 16:58, TJ wrote:
> On 2025-01-03 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/01/2025 18:37, -hh wrote:
>>> On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:

....

> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
> deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>
> I'm a farmer, the third generation of my family to own and operate this
> small chunk of the world. Among other crops, we have raised vegetables
> and sold them on a roadside farm stand since 1962. We have records going
> back most of that time, with small notes about things like the weather.
>
> 50 years ago, while there were exceptions (there are ALWAYS exceptions
> when taking about weather trends), we could pretty much count on the
> first killing frost happening between September 20 and the 25th.
>
> The last 10 years or so, that event has moved to October 5-10. And in
> 2024, the first killing frost was on October 25th.
>
> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
> mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>
> But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are
> willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
> population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.

Same way we changed it, we can change it back. We'll die if we don't.

>
> I'm not willing to do that, and I don't think anyone else is, either. So
> what I'll do is continue to take advantage of the changes that are
> happening, adapting as best I can.
>
> I can now grow fruits and vegetables that I couldn't dream of 50 years
> ago. Better, long-season varieties that I couldn't grow when I was a
> kid. For now, the climate is changing toward being better, here. That
> won't last, but it'll probably last longer than I do.

You are fortunate. In my area, the climate has gone desert like and
crops die because there is not enough water. The increased energy in the
system means storms are stronger, even devastating. They often destroy
crops.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2025-01-04 15:48, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation,
> extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local nutritious
> vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
>
I'm not quite sure how an extinct species can eat up all the local
nutritious vegetation, but then I'm just a simple farmer who doesn't
understand the way of things.

I can understand that natural climate change has claimed many species
that couldn't adapt, while species that *could* adapt have flourished.
Dinosaurs and mammals are the classic examples from the distant past.

But species can adapt to manmade climate change, as well. Take the
whitetail deer, for example. 100 years ago, give or take, hunting
decreased the population in many areas, including where I live, to very
low numbers. But regulations were changed, fewer deer were hunted, and
many adapted to the new situation. Many learned how to live among
people, in urban and suburban areas where they wouldn't be hunted.

So now, the deer population is many times higher than the habitat can
support, even out here in a rural area. And, it's getting larger every
year despite increased hunting pressure. There was a time when deer
damage to my crops was negligible, something I could just live with.
Now, they have been known to destroy the whole crop.

Wolves, who used to help keep deer populations in check, were hunted to
extinction because they also attacked livestock. But, as usually
happens, another, more adaptable predator moved in to take their place -
coyotes. The coyotes don't usually attack livestock, at least around
here, but they do control the sick and injured deer, leaving the healthy
ones to breed. Come to think of it, perhaps the coyotes leave the
livestock alone because there a plenty of deer to eat...

TJ

On 2025-01-04 16:50, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
>
>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
>> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
>> deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>
> I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the whole
> area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things change.

I'm closer to 1500', with rolling drumlins left behind by glaciers and
it's similar here. I've been told since childhood that our area used to
be under an "inland sea." There are tons of fossils of sea life around,
shellfish, trilobites, and the like, but I couldn't say for sure they
weren't imported by those glaciers from somewhere else.

One thing, anyway. If the climatologists are correct, then humans are to
be congratulated. Through global cooperation and diligent effort, we
have successfully staved off the Ice Age that was predicted in the 1970s
to be headed our way.

TJ

On 2025-01-05 10:36, TJ wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 16:50, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
>>> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
>>> deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>>
>> I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the whole
>> area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things
>> change.
>
> I'm closer to 1500', with rolling drumlins left behind by glaciers and
> it's similar here. I've been told since childhood that our area used to
> be under an "inland sea." There are tons of fossils of sea life around,
> shellfish, trilobites, and the like, but I couldn't say for sure they
> weren't imported by those glaciers from somewhere else.
>
> One thing, anyway. If the climatologists are correct, then humans are to
> be congratulated. Through global cooperation and diligent effort, we
> have successfully staved off the Ice Age that was predicted in the 1970s
> to be headed our way.

ROFL! I love it.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, TJ wrote:

> On 2025-01-04 16:50, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
>>> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
>>> deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>>
>> I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the whole
>> area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things change.
>
> I'm closer to 1500', with rolling drumlins left behind by glaciers and it's
> similar here. I've been told since childhood that our area used to be under
> an "inland sea." There are tons of fossils of sea life around, shellfish,
> trilobites, and the like, but I couldn't say for sure they weren't imported
> by those glaciers from somewhere else.
>
> One thing, anyway. If the climatologists are correct, then humans are to be
> congratulated. Through global cooperation and diligent effort, we have
> successfully staved off the Ice Age that was predicted in the 1970s to be
> headed our way.
>
> TJ

Cooling is what we should all fear. Warming, if anything, has always been
correlated with civilizational advance and prosperity.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 09:14:34 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 05/01/2025 00:38, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 15:48:18 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation,
>>> extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local
>>> nutritious vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
>>
>> Where have all the megafauna gone?
>> Long time passing Where have all the megafauna gone?
>> Long time ago Where have all the megafauna gone?
>> Indians ate them, every one Oh, when will they ever learn?
>> Oh, when will they ever learn?
>
> Except in all probability, they didn't...

There is evidence the people of the Clovis culture were chowing down on
mastadons. I haven't seen many mastadons lately.

https://www.nysm.nysed.gov/exhibitions/ongoing/cohoes-mastodon-0

I always liked visiting that mastadon, since my great-grandfather was
involved in finding it. He wasn't an archaeologist; he was building a dam
for the mill when they dug up some strange bones.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 10:36:52 -0500, TJ wrote:

> I'm closer to 1500', with rolling drumlins left behind by glaciers and
> it's similar here. I've been told since childhood that our area used to
> be under an "inland sea." There are tons of fossils of sea life around,
> shellfish, trilobites, and the like, but I couldn't say for sure they
> weren't imported by those glaciers from somewhere else.

The Big Snowy mountains are an island range with the highest point at
8,681'. The peak isn't much of a peak since it's a long, fairly flat
ridge. I'm not a fossil hunter but I picked up a rock and saw one of those
worm-like marine fossils. There obviously had been some changes.

> One thing, anyway. If the climatologists are correct, then humans are to
> be congratulated. Through global cooperation and diligent effort, we
> have successfully staved off the Ice Age that was predicted in the 1970s
> to be headed our way.

I remember a TV play in the '70s where a glacier was working tis way into
a suburban neighborhood.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0894213/

It was a drama, not a documentary. Not one of Nimoy's better moments.

rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> The Big Snowy mountains are an island range with the highest point at
> 8,681'. The peak isn't much of a peak since it's a long, fairly flat
> ridge. I'm not a fossil hunter but I picked up a rock and saw one of those
> worm-like marine fossils. There obviously had been some changes.

I remember when one of our dads in the 4-H group took us to the Illinois coal
mines; just about any rock you cracked would reveal a fossil.

--
How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored
power tools.

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:

> TJ wrote:
>
>> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
>> mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>
>> But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are
>> willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
>> population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
>
> The West sure can't do anything about it. Southeast Asia drives
> climate change. They are building hundreds of coal-fired power plants
> every year in China and India.
>
> I'm rather astonished that this point almost never comes up in the
> media, even given what liars they are.

This is the truth! What I see is that it is "offset" by how much wind and
solar they build. Another mainstream propaganda line I see on this theme
is that... the speed of increase of coal power is decreasing!

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> So locusts arent natural either?
> Hmm.
> I wonder if you know you are looking through a religious lens?

Don't you worry about the locusts! I think we discussed a long time ago,
the possibility of capturing the swarming african locusts and creating the
worlds most successful insect protein company! Problem solved, and we'll
make a lot of money at the same time! =D

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 17:16:21 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> I don't condemn him for wanting to make a buck.
>> The 'evil' bit comes in when HOW such money is made - and the degree
>> of zealotry in punishing heretics.
>
> That's my problem with the current system. Entrepreneurs take risks, have
> better skills and should be rewarded for their efforts. However when the
> reward is counted in the billions somebody is getting screwed. When every
> dollar that isn't nailed down gravitates to the top, somebody is getting
> screwed.
>
> A great example of the ethos is Biden giving Soros a medal. That's the guy
> who nearly destroyed the Bank of England with his manipulations.
>

Well, not every dollar. I think Kamprad did a lot of good with Ikea.
Billions accumulating, but those billions came from billions of people
and not from the government. =)

I wonder how his sons will take care of his excellent creation now?

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:28:09 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Stephenson used to be great in his youth (Snowcrash, Diamond age,
>> Cryptonomicon) but has gotten worse as he has gotten older. His books
>> have expanded needlessly and he has gotten more woke as well.
>>
>> I think it is due to financial incentives.
>
> I liked 'Reamde' and 'Termination Shock' wasn't too bad. 'Polostan' didn't
> capture me, certainly not as the start of a series of relatively expensive
> offerings to complete the story line. I don't mind series. Mackey
> Chandler's 'April' series was 14 books. Of course it helps that they were
> all kindleunlimited so I wasn't paying $5 a pop. Franklin Horton's
> 'Borrowed World' is up to 11 now.

I try to avoid series, and if I read one, ideally no more than 3 parts. I
simply don't have the time. =(

> I'd asked Fran Porretto about kindleunlimited and how that works compared
> to outright purchases. He went off to find out but I never heard more. He
> doesn't do series per se so I wondered if buying the books put a few more
> bucks in his piggybank.

I spoke with a science fiction author on a mailinglist I'm a member of,
and he said, for the love of god, never write a book because you expect to
earn money on it. Apparently it is not the royal road to riches. ;)

I read an interview with Stephenson, it must have been more than 10 years
ago, where he said that his books are enough to finance a good middle
class living for him. I imagine that over the past 10 years, since
royalties are accumulating, it must have surely increased a bit from
there.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:12:37 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> If that was not the case, people would have fled to areas closer to
>> home.
>> Now they cross half the world in order to enjoy the pleasures of swedens
>> welfare system, to give you just one example.
>
> Leave the top off the honey jar and you attract flies.

This is the truth! In all fairness, the current center government has
started to crack down on immigration benefits, so I think immigration is
currently down with 50% or so, compared with the heydays of socialist
politics.

But in 2 years the socialists will be back, and then they of course need
to up the immigration in order to import votes. Yes, you can vote at the
municipal and regional level in sweden, without being a citizen.
Fortunately you cannot vote at the national level without being a swedish
citizen.

> I don't think the vision of the US having streets paved with gold is
> believed by anyone in the world but working long hours for substandard
> wages plucking chickens must seem better than wherever they are.

I think we would be very surprised at how attractive our "shitty jobs" are
compared with hanging around, half starved, in a desert all day.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:38:29 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:47:27 +0100, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am surprised that eco-fascists are not protesting against the big IT
>>>> corporations. But most likely that would not result in higher taxes
>>>> and more power to socialist politicians, so that is probably why they
>>>> are ignored.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_green_environmentalism
>>>
>>> They love their technology. They want their iPhones, VR goggles, AI
>>> friends, EVs and so forth to be powered by some unspecified miracle,
>>>
>>>
>> Ahh... the stupidity of modern eco-fascism never ceases to amaze!
>
> I believe I've mentioned Derek Jensen and Deep Green Resistance.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Green_Resistance
>
> Whatever you think of Jensen his book demolishes the fantasies of the
> people who want 'alternative' sources to provide a painless way to
> maintain their lifestyles while feeling good about themselves.

It does ring a bell. It is funny how so many alternative energy source
people have never been to engineering college. And it is also funny, how
so many who say it's not gonna happen with our current level of
technology, somehow, all of them went to engineering college. ;)

This is never mentioned in mainstream media.