On 1/4/25 10:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>> On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and
>>>>>>>>> Nobara,
>>>>>>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who
>>>>>>>>> try out
>>>>>>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics,
>>>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>>>>>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
>>>>>>>>> offers a
>>>>>>>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the
>>>>>>>>> desktop
>>>>>>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the
>>>>>>>>> widgets
>>>>>>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd
>>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
>>>>>>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of
>>>>>>> what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu.
>>>>>>> That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would
>>>>>>> agree with their design choice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu.
>>>>>> Its very XP like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to
>>>>>> Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
>>>>>
>>>>> We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
>>>>>
>>>> Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still built
>>>> on gnome3  libraries AFAIK
>>>> And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
>>>
>>> I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all the
>>> better.
>>
>>    GTK3 is a little better.
>>
>>    MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
>>    LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
>>    and it's sane and does what you need the way
>>    you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
>>    and XP experience.
>>
>>    DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
>>    DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
>>    advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
>>    Nice simple GUI with few frills.
>
> I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I remember
> correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I bought my parents
> in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as interesting though. I
> used it for a moment a few months ago.

LXQt ... just ain't the same somehow - different feel.
Was still buggy too when I was fooling around with it.
'PCManFM'-qt also wasn't as friendly.

Anyway, my choices are LXDE or, second, XFCE. I do not
care for 'eye candy' or excessive 'integration' much.
KDE obviously went in the other direction, almost may
as well buy Winders.

At least with Linux there are MANY choices for desktops.

On 1/4/25 4:43 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 03:45:13 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> ANYhow ... Bill didn't START as 'evil' ...
>
> His letter to the computer club bitching about people using HIS BASIC was
> a good start on evil.

Well ... it WAS his version .......

I don't condemn him for wanting to make a buck.
The 'evil' bit comes in when HOW such money is
made - and the degree of zealotry in punishing
heretics.

On 04/01/2025 20:48, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> On 04/01/2025 15:58, TJ wrote:
>>> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
>>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
>>> mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>>
>> The point is that far far more drastic changes have happened without
>> modern humanity being involved.
>
> Nah, the point is that the effect of modern humanity have caused changes
> far more rapidly than normal, leaving ecosystems/species little time to
> adapt.
>
>> The odds are in favour of natural change and CO2 doesn't make any real
>> difference at all,.
>
> Nonsense.
>
> And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation,
> extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local nutritious
> vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
>
So locusts arent natural either?
Hmm.
I wonder if you know you are looking through a religious lens?

> <snip>
>

--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

On 2025-01-04, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> But we weren't into etymology. I've read some theories about the
> derivation of 'wop' but we just knew they all carried knives and were
> criminals. Even pizza was an exotic thing generally found in sleazy
> barrooms. Some of the other slurs were easier to figure out.

I heard that "wop" stood for "without papers".

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 15:48:18 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation,
> extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local
> nutritious vegetation like a swarm of locusts.

Where have all the megafauna gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the megafauna gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the megafauna gone?
Indians ate them, every one
Oh, when will they ever learn?
Oh, when will they ever learn?

On Sat, 04 Jan 2025 23:39:28 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2025-01-04, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> But we weren't into etymology. I've read some theories about the
>> derivation of 'wop' but we just knew they all carried knives and were
>> criminals. Even pizza was an exotic thing generally found in sleazy
>> barrooms. Some of the other slurs were easier to figure out.
>
> I heard that "wop" stood for "without papers".

The most creative I've heard is it came from the sound made from beating
on the dried salt cod when making baccala.

On Sat, 04 Jan 2025 15:51:15 -0600, chrisv wrote:

> TJ wrote:
>
>>So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
>>man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
>>mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>
>>But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are
>>willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
>>population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
>
> The West sure can't do anything about it. Southeast Asia drives climate
> change. They are building hundreds of coal-fired power plants every
> year in China and India.
>
> I'm rather astonished that this point almost never comes up in the
> media, even given what liars they are.

The coal trains rumble through here headed west. I believe they make a
dogleg up to BC since the good people of Washington state frown on
shipping coal from their ports. They're not building an atoll in the
middle of the Pacific with it.

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 17:16:21 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> I don't condemn him for wanting to make a buck.
> The 'evil' bit comes in when HOW such money is made - and the degree
> of zealotry in punishing heretics.

That's my problem with the current system. Entrepreneurs take risks, have
better skills and should be rewarded for their efforts. However when the
reward is counted in the billions somebody is getting screwed. When every
dollar that isn't nailed down gravitates to the top, somebody is getting
screwed.

A great example of the ethos is Biden giving Soros a medal. That's the guy
who nearly destroyed the Bank of England with his manipulations.

On 1/4/25 12:08 AM, rbowman wrote:
> My mother was politically correct
> before her time and would accuse my father of sounding like Hitler.

She was probably a closet Jew. Cro-magnons _loved_ and love Hitler. He
was their embodiment of who they are.

If you are American, it means you're Nazi. If you don't like Hitler, it
means you're Jew!

On 2025-01-04 16:11, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:07:13 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> On 2025-01-04 01:27, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:49:55 +0100, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I
>>>> saw it in a garage many decades ago.
>>>
>>> Oh, the 900. I've seen a few of those. Saabs always were a minority
>>> brand in the US. I liked the old ones, but there were some really
>>> strange beasts like the Sonnet II. I don't know why there was a Volvo
>>> on every block while Saabs were driven by middle-aged lesbians.
>>
>> Volvo used to be synonymous with safety and they were built to last
>> forever. It was their reputation and it was very much the reality. Once
>> Ford bought the company though, everything went downhill. Now the
>> Chinese own them and I can't help but notice that they're at the bottom
>> in the reliability index.
>
> A friend's father gave him a new Volvo when he graduated college. He had
> some sort of feeling that he would live as long as the Volvo or something
> and hung on to it for years. After a minor accident he was irate when the
> insurance company paid out based on the value of the car, which was about
> $100, despite his paying for a policy that was designed for people with
> rare vintage cars.

I only got $1,000 for my 2001 Volvo S40 when I traded it for a Jeep
Patriot in 2010. Had I known what shit the Patriot would turn out to be,
I would have held on to the Volvo even though it already had 210,000km
on it.

< snip >

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 2025-01-04 17:13, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> On 1/4/25 10:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>> On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>> On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>> On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and
>>>>>>>>>> Nobara,
>>>>>>>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who
>>>>>>>>>> try out
>>>>>>>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics,
>>>>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>>>>>>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar
>>>>>>>>>> and offers a
>>>>>>>>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the
>>>>>>>>>> desktop
>>>>>>>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the
>>>>>>>>>> widgets
>>>>>>>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd
>>>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications'
>>>>>>>>> button that
>>>>>>>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
>>>>>>>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of
>>>>>>>> what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu.
>>>>>>>> That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I
>>>>>>>> would agree with their design choice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a
>>>>>>> menu. Its very XP like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to
>>>>>>> Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still built
>>>>> on gnome3  libraries AFAIK
>>>>> And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
>>>>
>>>> I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all
>>>> the better.
>>>
>>>    GTK3 is a little better.
>>>
>>>    MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
>>>    LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
>>>    and it's sane and does what you need the way
>>>    you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
>>>    and XP experience.
>>>
>>>    DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
>>>    DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
>>>    advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
>>>    Nice simple GUI with few frills.
>>
>> I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I remember
>> correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I bought my
>> parents in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as interesting
>> though. I used it for a moment a few months ago.
>
>
>   LXQt ... just ain't the same somehow - different feel.
>   Was still buggy too when I was fooling around with it.
>   'PCManFM'-qt also wasn't as friendly.
>
>   Anyway, my choices are LXDE or, second, XFCE. I do not
>   care for 'eye candy' or excessive 'integration' much.
>   KDE obviously went in the other direction, almost may
>   as well buy Winders.
>
>   At least with Linux there are MANY choices for desktops.

It's the customization options of KDE that got me interested. You can
customize GNOME to an extent, but it's needlessly difficult whereas KDE
includes just about everything you would need immediately. XFCE is even
more customizable, but I find it to be somewhat dated. Additionally, it
is way too easy to break something specifically because of how open it
is to being modified by the user.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 1/4/25 7:46 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jan 2025 15:51:15 -0600, chrisv wrote:
>
>> TJ wrote:
>>
>>> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
>>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
>>> mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>>
>>> But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are
>>> willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
>>> population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
>>
>> The West sure can't do anything about it. Southeast Asia drives climate
>> change. They are building hundreds of coal-fired power plants every
>> year in China and India.
>>
>> I'm rather astonished that this point almost never comes up in the
>> media, even given what liars they are.
>
> The coal trains rumble through here headed west. I believe they make a
> dogleg up to BC since the good people of Washington state frown on
> shipping coal from their ports. They're not building an atoll in the
> middle of the Pacific with it.

That'd be cool though :-)

I'm surprised western Canada is still using lots
of coal. It's swimming in that 'tar' oil and there
must be several good ways to make it burn clean.
Less nasty than coal ...

With Trump 2.0, a lot of those 'good people of
Washington State' may become 'good people of
Greater Idaho'.

On 1/4/25 6:19 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 04/01/2025 20:48, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>
>>> On 04/01/2025 15:58, TJ wrote:
>>>> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it
>>>> natural, or
>>>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
>>>> mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>>>
>>> The point is that far far more drastic changes have happened without
>>> modern humanity being involved.
>>
>> Nah, the point is that the effect of modern humanity have caused changes
>> far more rapidly than normal, leaving ecosystems/species little time to
>> adapt.
>>
>>> The odds are in favour of natural change and CO2 doesn't make any  real
>>> difference at all,.
>>
>> Nonsense.
>>
>> And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation,
>> extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local
>> nutritious
>> vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
>>
> So locusts arent natural either?
> Hmm.
> I wonder if you know you are looking through a religious lens?

Maybe he just thinks everything BUT humans are
'more important', 'real nature' ? I think the
term is 'misanthropy'.

Hope he never gets his hands on a tube of
Doom Virus ....

Sorry, we eat and shit like everything else - we've
just got a bit smarter about how. The fledermauss
has no more 'right to live' than I do. It's all
an eat-or-be-eaten thing from bacteria on up.
No magic manna raining down ...

On 1/4/25 3:48 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> On 04/01/2025 15:58, TJ wrote:
>>> So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or
>>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
>>> mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
>>>
>> The point is that far far more drastic changes have happened without
>> modern humanity being involved.
>
> Nah, the point is that the effect of modern humanity have caused changes
> far more rapidly than normal, leaving ecosystems/species little time to
> adapt.

'Nature' often does that all by itself - volcanoes,
ocean-current shifts, flood and drought, meteors,
botanical plagues - and the SCALE of rapid change
is HUGE, oft global.

So don't get TOO worked up about our alleged few
tenths of a degree changes ...

On 1/4/25 6:51 AM, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:21:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>>
>> What a load of totally opinionated irrelevant crap.
>> This computer is a tool. I create words. I create engineering drawings.
>> I create web sites.
>>
>> This is a tool that allows me to do this.
>>
>> In the UK we have another meaning of 'tool'.
>> It fits you exactly
>>
>
> In the real world we have a term that describes the subservient
> technical class to which you belong:
>
> Flunky
>
> Now go and do as you're told. Don't concern yourself with
> the ways of the Masters.
>
>

Hehe :)

See, you should not directly deal with a "The Natural Philosopher".
Worse than that, one from Britain. Their people are raised as Bitches of
Americans. They know nothing else! Have seen no other mode of life.

You should leave it to your dick to deal with them.

On 1/4/25 3:04 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:15:10 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 04/01/2025 07:56, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>> The USA is inherently isolationist ... would rather NOT
>>>   mess around with any other countries. There's "Here"
>>>   and "Over There".
>>
>> Till some guy drives a truck into you and it turns out it's all about
>> 'over there'
>>
>> Like the UK in the 19th century, the average American has no idea how
>> much of his peace prosperity and wealth comes from hard noised
>> businessmen backed up by thin red lines of very tough men indeed,
>> operating in far off countries.
>>
>> The UK learnt that there is no 'over there' after all.
>
> General Smedley Butler's 'War is a Racket' was in part about his time in
> the Marine Corps division of the United Fruit Company during the Banana
> Wars'.

That's your past, not the future. The world will clip your spoiled asses
down to correct size. And then you'll shrink and die away for exactly
what you are. I'm talking to you cro-magnons.

On 1/4/25 3:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
>
>> I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
>> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
>> deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
>
> I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the whole
> area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things change.

Hehe :) That doesn't mean water level was higher. It could mean the
solid mass got raised.

On 1/4/25 12:41 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:33:42 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Hallucinations will probably have to be "fixed" by either hiring
>> africans to double check answers, sorry "fact check", and then store
>> those so that similar queries are redirected to those canned answers.
>
> https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/12/journal-editors-resign-to-protest-
> ai-use-high-fees-and-more/
>
> "In-house production has been reduced or outsourced, and in 2023 Elsevier
> began using AI during production without informing the board, resulting in
> many style and formatting errors, as well as reversing versions of papers
> that had already been accepted and formatted by the editors. “This was
> highly embarrassing for the journal and resolution took six months and was
> achieved only through the persistent efforts of the editors," the editors
> wrote. "AI processing continues to be used and regularly reformats
> submitted manuscripts to change meaning and formatting and require
> extensive author and editor oversight during proof stage.”
>
> "There is certainly cause for concern when it comes to using AI in the
> pursuit of science. For instance, earlier this year, we witnessed the
> viral sensation of several egregiously bad AI-generated figures published
> in a peer-reviewed article in Frontiers, a reputable scientific journal.
> Scientists on social media expressed equal parts shock and ridicule at the
> images, one of which featured a rat with grotesquely large and bizarre
> genitals. The paper has since been retracted, but the incident reinforces
> a growing concern that AI will make published scientific research less
> trustworthy, even as it increases productivity."
>
>
> Somehow a rat with big balls really upset them.

Frontiers is a scientific journal? Hahhhahhahh :-) Your billionaires are
making even science fake for you :)

Oh boy.

They had already made history fake long time ago! There is not a single
book of history of United States in the English language that's worth
reading. You might as well watch Hollywood movies. You get the same
bullshit.

Then the billionaires made the news fake. Then they made the library
fake (it became Wikipedia!). Then they made art fake (gave the job to
AI). And now they're making science fake with "journals" like Frontiers.

Yesterday I dug a diagram somewhere showing the number of scientists per
million people for each country. That data does not fake it for you. It
delivers! It tells you who is advancing, who is a goner. I got it and
sent it to my folks in Iran.

The simpler ones just sampled the data for Germany, South Korea, Sweden,
and USA. They were trying to measure the advancement of their societies.
The graphs covered the past 30 years.

Note that they did not measure the number of "engineers" for that
purpose, but just the scientists who are doing R&D, of course.

30 years back, USA had 3000 scientists per million of its population,
and now it has 4000 per million. Germany had 3000 back then, and now has
5000 per million. Sweden had 4000 back then and now has 8000. But, South
Korea had 2000 back then, lowest of all others, and now has 9000 per
million! ... The highest.

So no wonder Samsung surpassed IBM in 2022, in the number of patents
granted per year for the first time in history. IBM was number one for
the 30 years prior to it.

I posted to physics forum about Samsung surpassing IBM a year or so
back, and made an educated guess that South Korea had not replaced its
scientists with "engineers", while USA had, and that must be the reason
behind this almost shocking reality. But yesterday I saw via such
diagrams that my educated guess had hit right at the target.

"Engineers" are limited little things. Nobody cares how many of them are
around, cause they don't matter when you're seeking answers. When you're
seeking the truth and reason behind empires collapsing or growing up. It
is the scientists who matter.

And your billionaires, dutifully are busy making science itself fake for
you! Do you think this happens by chance? :)

I think you cro-magnons are doomed. And I'm telling you why, and how!

On 1/4/25 9:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 17:13, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> On 1/4/25 10:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>> On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>> On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora
>>>>>>>>>>> and Nobara,
>>>>>>>>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who
>>>>>>>>>>> try out
>>>>>>>>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the
>>>>>>>>>>> basics, and they
>>>>>>>>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>>>>>>>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar
>>>>>>>>>>> and offers a
>>>>>>>>>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the
>>>>>>>>>>> desktop
>>>>>>>>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too,
>>>>>>>>>>> the widgets
>>>>>>>>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan.
>>>>>>>>>> I'd rather
>>>>>>>>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications'
>>>>>>>>>> button that
>>>>>>>>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
>>>>>>>>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name
>>>>>>>>> of what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu.
>>>>>>>>> That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I
>>>>>>>>> would agree with their design choice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a
>>>>>>>> menu. Its very XP like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to
>>>>>>>> Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still built
>>>>>> on gnome3  libraries AFAIK
>>>>>> And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
>>>>>
>>>>> I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all
>>>>> the better.
>>>>
>>>>    GTK3 is a little better.
>>>>
>>>>    MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
>>>>    LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
>>>>    and it's sane and does what you need the way
>>>>    you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
>>>>    and XP experience.
>>>>
>>>>    DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
>>>>    DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
>>>>    advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
>>>>    Nice simple GUI with few frills.
>>>
>>> I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I remember
>>> correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I bought my
>>> parents in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as interesting
>>> though. I used it for a moment a few months ago.
>>
>>
>>    LXQt ... just ain't the same somehow - different feel.
>>    Was still buggy too when I was fooling around with it.
>>    'PCManFM'-qt also wasn't as friendly.
>>
>>    Anyway, my choices are LXDE or, second, XFCE. I do not
>>    care for 'eye candy' or excessive 'integration' much.
>>    KDE obviously went in the other direction, almost may
>>    as well buy Winders.
>>
>>    At least with Linux there are MANY choices for desktops.
>
> It's the customization options of KDE that got me interested. You can
> customize GNOME to an extent, but it's needlessly difficult whereas KDE
> includes just about everything you would need immediately. XFCE is even
> more customizable, but I find it to be somewhat dated. Additionally, it
> is way too easy to break something specifically because of how open it
> is to being modified by the user.

Well, I never try to mod it very much - so no probs.

Biggest issues revolve around kinda faulty detection
of the mousepad. Had to go kinda deep and weird to
help there. Were also a few brightness-default issues
with the display (but that was X-related, not so
much XFCE). Had these issues with several distros,
they don't seem to like laptops. Probs with HPs and
with some Dells also (including the latest Fedora).

Anyway, LXDE is what does it for me. "Dated" is
JUST GREAT in my aesthetic :-)

On 05/01/2025 00:38, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 15:48:18 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation,
>> extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local
>> nutritious vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
>
> Where have all the megafauna gone?
> Long time passing
> Where have all the megafauna gone?
> Long time ago
> Where have all the megafauna gone?
> Indians ate them, every one
> Oh, when will they ever learn?
> Oh, when will they ever learn?

Except in all probability, they didn't...

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 05/01/2025 00:53, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 17:16:21 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> I don't condemn him for wanting to make a buck.
>> The 'evil' bit comes in when HOW such money is made - and the degree
>> of zealotry in punishing heretics.
>
> That's my problem with the current system. Entrepreneurs take risks, have
> better skills and should be rewarded for their efforts. However when the
> reward is counted in the billions somebody is getting screwed. When every
> dollar that isn't nailed down gravitates to the top, somebody is getting
> screwed.
>
> A great example of the ethos is Biden giving Soros a medal. That's the guy
> who nearly destroyed the Bank of England with his manipulations.

Í'd far rather people like Bezos or Musk, or Soros, or Gates had those
billions instead of a faceless government bureaucracy.

People can occasionally do the right thing, and if not, you know where
they live...

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 05/01/2025 07:54, Physfitfreak wrote:
> Germany had 3000 back then, and now has 5000 per million.

My sister's German ex-husband who probably supports AfD, said 'we have
now 50 professors of gender studies in Germany, and only two atom
scientists!'

--
I was brought up to believe that you should never give offence if you
can avoid it; the new culture tells us you should always take offence if
you can. There are now experts in the art of taking offence, indeed
whole academic subjects, such as 'gender studies', devoted to it.

Sir Roger Scruton

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:28:09 +0100, D wrote:

> Stephenson used to be great in his youth (Snowcrash, Diamond age,
> Cryptonomicon) but has gotten worse as he has gotten older. His books
> have expanded needlessly and he has gotten more woke as well.
>
> I think it is due to financial incentives.

I liked 'Reamde' and 'Termination Shock' wasn't too bad. 'Polostan' didn't
capture me, certainly not as the start of a series of relatively expensive
offerings to complete the story line. I don't mind series. Mackey
Chandler's 'April' series was 14 books. Of course it helps that they were
all kindleunlimited so I wasn't paying $5 a pop. Franklin Horton's
'Borrowed World' is up to 11 now.

I'd asked Fran Porretto about kindleunlimited and how that works compared
to outright purchases. He went off to find out but I never heard more. He
doesn't do series per se so I wondered if buying the books put a few more
bucks in his piggybank.

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:12:37 +0100, D wrote:

> If that was not the case, people would have fled to areas closer to
> home.
> Now they cross half the world in order to enjoy the pleasures of swedens
> welfare system, to give you just one example.

Leave the top off the honey jar and you attract flies.

I don't think the vision of the US having streets paved with gold is
believed by anyone in the world but working long hours for substandard
wages plucking chickens must seem better than wherever they are.

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 12:37:54 +0100, D wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:49:55 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I
>>> saw it in a garage many decades ago.
>>
>> Oh, the 900. I've seen a few of those. Saabs always were a minority
>> brand in the US. I liked the old ones, but there were some really
>> strange beasts like the Sonnet II. I don't know why there was a Volvo
>> on every block while Saabs were driven by middle-aged lesbians.
>>
>>
> Yes, that's the one! You sure know your cars!

Up to a point. A coworker had one and, yes, she was in the right
demographic.

https://www.gminsidenews.com/threads/saab-brand-most-over-represented-
among-gay-and-lesbian-buyers.78107/

I don't know what the attraction is but there seems to be one. Miata have
the same rep, though mostly gays. This one had me worried.

https://gaycarboys.com/sexy-men-drive-2021-toyota-yaris-cross/car-reviews-
by-brand/toyota-reviews/

I didn't even know they existed. As far as the US is concerned my 2018
hatchback was the last one based on the Toyota platform. The sedans that
year were Mazda 2s, and the nameplate was dropped entirely in 2020. The
Japanese must like the name and recycled it into something completely
different.

As for knowing cars any red blooded American boy could spot a '57 Mercury
Turnpike Cruiser two blocks away and describe how it differed from the
less expensive Montclair.

My knowledge drops off rapidly in the '80s and today they all look the
same to me. There are a few exceptions and sometimes I will wander across
a parking lot to identify a car that caught my eye. As everything became
SUVs even Porsche proved they could make a butt ugly car if they put their
minds to it.