On 03/12/2024 20:18, D wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 02/12/2024 20:38, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/12/2024 14:06, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/12/2024 20:40, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2024 10:42:05 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only poison in them was lead pellets and you spit those out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/toxic-montana-lakes-kills-
>>>>>>> hundreds-and-maybe-thousands-snow-geese-180961356/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You wouldn't want to dine on one of those geese.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the fact that they were dead floating on a lake might be a
>>>>>> clue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In London a woman was seriously injured by a dead duck falling on
>>>>>> her head
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was standing by my car one day when a pigeons fell out of the
>>>>>> sky. It wasn't dead, but when I came back it had died.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One tends to avoid eating such.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rabbits that are dying from myxomatosis happen in some years, and
>>>>>> apparently the meat is edible, but not much eats it
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What about roadkill? Did you ever try?
>>>>
>>>> Not bunnies
>>>> Eaten pheasant and deer
>>>>
>>>> Both V good
>>>
>>> I guess the trick is to find fresh roadkill.
>>
>> Well yes. Technically you should not collect anything you have killed,
>> but if the car in front hits it, it is, so to speak, 'fair game'...
>
> Touché!
>
>> Pheasant must be what the person who invented the phrase 'bird
>> brained' had in mind.
>>
>> They get bred in captivity and released in the autumn to get a bit
>> leery and them shot around Christmas time, so you get a flood of avian
>> retards waddling round the roads at this time of year.
>
> This is the truth! They were bred in captivity close to my country side
> house, and one day either the farm closed, the birds escaped, or both.
> So now there are "wild" pheasants running around there from time to
> time. I have thought about getting out the old longbow, since they are
> not shy at all. Maybe a project for next summer!
>

I shot one with a .22 air rifle.

It didn't die. I tried to wring its neck.
The head came off, and it still didn't die.
Eventually it died and I plucked it and emptied its insides and ate it.
Quite good really.

Mostly they use 12 gauge on them. That seems to kill them ouright

--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 03/12/2024 20:21, D wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 10:45:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> I get the impressions Utah doesn't care much about federal laws and
>>> doesn't have too many state laws.
>>
>> Utah is an odd state. As you drive down one of the canyons you can look
>> across and see the rifle pits that were constructed during the Mormon
>> War.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War
>>
>> My brother lived in Utah for about 20 years. He had his work but his wife
>> referred to it as 'camping out'. In the '60s and '70s everything revolved
>> around the LDS church. If you were what they referred to as a 'gentile'
>> there wasn't much. The author Ed Abbey quipped that only in Utah can a
>> Jew
>> be a gentile. It's liberalized quite a bit since then but it's still
>> controlled by the LDS.
>
> Was he able to have many women when he lived there? ;)
>
>>> Nice low population density = no need for too much regulation.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population_density
>>
>> The numbers are somewhat deceiving. The valley along the lake from Ogden
>> to Provo has about 1.2 million people, greater than the entire population
>> of Montana.
>>
>> https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ut/salt-lake-city/crime#description
>>
>>
>>> Anyone eaten squirrel?
>>
>> Yes. Tastes like tough chicken.
>
> If you catch one, make sure you save the tail hair. Apparently,
> according to the wife, that's what is used for very high quality paint
> brushes!

Indeed it is.

I picked one up once, it was a bit tame. Then it got scared and ploughed
furrows in my hands.

I understand now how they climb trees. They come with crampons built in

--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:21:59 +0100, D wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 10:45:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> I get the impressions Utah doesn't care much about federal laws and
>>> doesn't have too many state laws.
>>
>> Utah is an odd state. As you drive down one of the canyons you can look
>> across and see the rifle pits that were constructed during the Mormon
>> War.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War
>>
>> My brother lived in Utah for about 20 years. He had his work but his
>> wife referred to it as 'camping out'. In the '60s and '70s everything
>> revolved around the LDS church. If you were what they referred to as a
>> 'gentile' there wasn't much. The author Ed Abbey quipped that only in
>> Utah can a Jew be a gentile. It's liberalized quite a bit since then
>> but it's still controlled by the LDS.
>
> Was he able to have many women when he lived there?

His wife was the daughter of a Baptist minister. I don't think she was
into the polygamy bit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinesdale,_Montana

The AUB is a fundamentalist offspring of the LDS church and the common
belief is that they're polygamists. They don't cause problems so nobody
looks too closely.

The town is at the base of the Bitterroot range and there are hiking
trails on the slopes. One Sunday I met a young man, two young women, and
several kids on a trail taking a stroll. They were polite, well dressed
and appeared to be enjoying the nice weather. Not my place to get into
their living arrangements.

> If you catch one, make sure you save the tail hair. Apparently,
> according to the wife, that's what is used for very high quality paint
> brushes!

I skinned out the squirrels and rabbits I shot and tanned the hides. With
a squirrel you can pull the vertebrae out and leave the tail intact.
Squirrels have a much thicker hide than rabbits. A tanned rabbit hide is
almost like parchment with fur on it, quite supple. A squirrel is very
stiff until you work the hide like you would with buckskin.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 20:55:05 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I picked one up once, it was a bit tame. Then it got scared and ploughed
> furrows in my hands.
>
> I understand now how they climb trees. They come with crampons built in

When I was a kid there was a squirrel that came around at breakfast time
looking for a handout. He would hang on the kitchen window screen and look
in until he got his treat. It wasn't really animal abuse but I would give
him bread with peanut butter. He enjoyed the peanut butter but it was
amusing watching him trying to get it off the roof of his mouth.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:18:55 +0100, D wrote:

> This is the truth! They were bred in captivity close to my country side
> house, and one day either the farm closed, the birds escaped, or both.
> So now there are "wild" pheasants running around there from time to
> time. I have thought about getting out the old longbow, since they are
> not shy at all. Maybe a project for next summer!

That could be interesting. My father and I were rabbit hunting when a
pheasant provided a target of opportunity. My father managed to knock the
bird down and it landed in some brush about 50 yards away. The beagle ran
over but after a brief scuffle the pheasant flew off and the beagle
decided he wasn't a bird dog.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 20:53:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Mostly they use 12 gauge on them. That seems to kill them ouright

If you get a solid hit. See my other post about beagle versus pheasant.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:16:57 +0100, D wrote:

> I wonder how the herbs differ? If the lamb in wales run around freely on
> the mountain sides, I can imagine that there could be similarities!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uCDw30wCe0

https://www.wildfoodie.co.uk/post/wild-thyme-fragrant-treasure

"Wild thyme is indigenous to the UK, and its natural distribution spans
across the country. It is particularly abundant in England and Wales,
though it can also be found in parts of Scotland and Northern Ireland. Due
to its adaptability to various habitats, you can encounter wild thyme in a
diverse range of landscapes"

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:25:12 +0100, D wrote:

> Sounds like a similar situation. Have there ever been initiatives to try
> and clean it up?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milltown_Reservoir_Superfund_Site

There are several projects along the river. The mines were in Butte and
the chief problem there is the Berkeley Pit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Pit

Prior to the open pit mine the hill is riddled with traditional hard rock
mines. When they were active pumps kept the ground water in control. The
pumps were turned off in '82 and the pit started to fill.

The ores were smelted in Anaconda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaconda_Smelter_Stack

They realized the problem and the stack was an attempt to get the fumes
out of the valley. It succeeded in that but they also had to buy a lot of
land downwind. Even today not much grows there and the few trees are
deformed. Anaconda took a novel approach and built a golf course on the
tailings.

https://nicklausdesign.com/course/oldworks/

There still are acres of uncovered tailings. If you take the hiking traill
around the course you get to see the before state.

Then there was the Milltown Dam. There was a lot of foot dragging and
finger pointing but in '96 an exceptionally snowy winter formed ice floes
and the dam was in danger of failing. That got peoples' attention. It was
a long process but the sediments were sent back to Anaconda where they
came from and the dam was removed. When you've got lemons, make a state
park.

https://fwp.mt.gov/stateparks/milltown

The web site is a bit dated. The dam had acted to stabilize a rock face on
the south side where the overlook is. A couple of years ago they decided
it was unstable and closed it off. The old Milwaukee rail line has been
converted to a bike path but Tunnel 26 1/2 passes under the outlook and
the state isn't going to take the liability for that. There was also a
plan to use an old bridge to cross the river where the rail bridge was and
connect the north and south parts of the park but that's held up with some
land deal. I often hike the trail up and over the ridge and down to the
floodplain on the other side but it would be a difficult bike ride.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:24:24 +0100, D wrote:

> A cider... the drink of the gods! But it has to be dry cider. I can't
> stand the sugar filled versions.

https://westerncider.com/ciders-on-tap

I have no first hand knowledge but they have quite a selection. Quite a
dew microbreweries sprung up and these people decided to try cider. I've
walked by and it does seem to attract a crowd but not quite as much as the
breweries.

It's a little more authentic than a couple of attempts at wineries. Grapes
don't do well here so most of the grapes are imported with a few locally
grown grapes thrown in. One woman was honest enough to make wine from
stuff that does grow locally like rhubarb. No idea about that wither.

> I had a meeting with the US office of a customer of mine this monday,
> and apparently a bear came to visit them for thanks giving in Lake
> tahoe. It was not aggressive and after some souting and jumping up and
> down, it walked away.

One of our people was returning from lunch and took a photo of a bear
crossing at a 4-way stop at the corner of our parking lot. The bear seemed
to have a destination although the next street in the direction he was
headed was a major thoroughfare where all the big box stores and fast food
places live. Maybe he wanted a taco or maybe he didn't get the memo. 30
years ago that street was a two lane road at the edge of town.

On 2024-12-02, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 01/12/2024 19:13, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2024 18:32:59 +0100, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> I read that in terms of protein, breeding snakes is the Donald Trump of
>>>> protein when it comes to price! A free business idea for this group
>>>> could be to start a snake breeding farm and sell chicken:ish, protein at
>>>> very good prices!
>>>
>>> https://amaroohills.com/collections/emu
>>>
>>> I don't know about snake but raising emus was a get rich quick scheme
>>> years ago. A company at the Arizona state fair was giving out emu burgers
>>> to attract attention. It wasn't objectionable but the idea didn't catch
>>> on. It has the 'neither fish nor fowl' problem. It doesn't taste like
>>> chicken or quite like beef.
>>>
>> Same as ostrich. It's just not very interesting as meat
>>
>> There is a huge range of meat (and fungi) that are edible, but so dull or
>> faintly obnoxious that no one does.
>>
>> Wild hare (jack rabbit) tastes and smells like jockstraps after a hard match.
>> By the time you have got rid of that flavour all the other flavour has gone
>> too.
>>
>> Same goes for the muddy taste in pond reared carp.
>>
>> Rabbit is plain dull. But in a stew with bacon and vegetables and plenty of
>> herbs, its not bad
>
> I bought some rabbit sausage the other week, and it tasted like
> tasteless chicken sausage. Perhaps a little less smooth texture. It wasn't
> bad, but definitely not something to write home about either.

About 45 years ago, while eating in the college dorm cafeteria, I
noticed the piece of "chicken" on my plate was a little tougher
and drier than most chicken, and the arrangement of the bones did
not appear to be consistent with any piece of chicken I had ever
seen. I had eaten rabbit a few years earlier, when my uncle was
raising them, so I started to suspect the "chicken" was really
rabbit. My suspicion was confirmed when I heard a girl shriek
rather unhappily from a couple of tables away, "We're eating
BUNNIES!"

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

On 12/3/24 4:13 AM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> On 12/2/24 9:02 AM, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/12/2024 17:32, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30/11/2024 20:54, D wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well pie it with bacon mushroom and a white wine white sauce. Or
>>>>>>>> curry the bugger.
>>>>>>>> Or buy a chicken from someone who keeps them around the back
>>>>>>>> yard eating worms and stuff. THEY have taste
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After christmas, this is exactly the experiment I am embarking
>>>>>>> upon. The wife will buy a chicken from a free range farm, and
>>>>>>> we'll see how it compares. My bet is it will be better, but not
>>>>>>> good enough to get me to enjoy chicken breast.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would concur with that. Chicken is cheap protein. Expecting it
>>>>>> to be more is nuts. All reptiles - and birds evolved from reptiles
>>>>>> - 'tastes like chicken'.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read that in terms of protein, breeding snakes is the Donald
>>>>> Trump of protein when it comes to price! A free business idea for
>>>>> this group could be to start a snake breeding farm and sell
>>>>> chicken:ish, protein at very good prices!
>>>>>
>>>>> Then there's also insect protein. I do not know how it compared
>>>>> with snake protein.
>>>>>
>>>> In S Africa Locusts and crickets were known as 'pParkhurst prawns'
>>>>
>>>> Edible if you wanted.
>>>
>>> Fascinating to think about that, given the enormous amount of locusts
>>> which plague them from time to time. Huge amounts of protein there,
>>> just for the taking!
>>
>>
>>  Yea ... if you're down with locusts  :-)
>>
>>  There IS a vocal segment that basically want to FORCE
>>  everybody to eat insects almost entirely as "meat".
>
> This is not good. I have nothing against the free and voluntary
> consumption of insects. If you're into it, be my guest! I am against
> forced consumption. But, given the amount of famine and starving
> children in africa, it would be interested to see if something could be
> done with the locust swarms to get cheap protein for the people.
>
> If I did not have food, I'd welcome insect food over nothing at all. In
> fact I've had grass hopper (deep fried) and it was actually quite good.
> I also had scorpion when I went to china once, and it tasted like a
> crunchy shrimp.
>
>>  Sorry, I like my meat to have had a moo or cluck or
>>  squeal .......
>>
>>  Oh, avoid deer/moose meat now ... there's a lot of
>>  something like Mad Cow prion going around. NO cure
>>  for that. Bear meat - only WELL done as they tend
>>  to be full of parasites (bear meat isn't that good
>>  anyway).
>
> In sweden deer/moose is ok at the moment I think (and hope). The only
> thing you need to be careful with is boar and if you fish in a plluted
> lake. That is, definitely do _not_ eat anything from central stockholm
> where for many decades heavy industry poured out its filth into the water.
>
> It's improving, but still not good enough. If you're 30 minutes away by
> boat from the center, then you can start to eat an occasional fish or two.

The prion problem seems localized to north America
at the moment. You're probably OK in Sweden, for now.

Alas, the way 'conservationists' tend to move-around
species .......

Bear ... it's really kinda yuk.

Wild boar, anywhere, STILL tend to carry nasty
parasites. Always cook well-done.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 03/12/2024 20:16, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/12/2024 20:37, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/12/2024 14:06, D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/12/2024 18:47, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2024 11:18:01 +0100, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What was wrong with the goose? I saw a video on youtube where they
>>>>>>>>> cooked swan, and it was quite tough meat.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a reason a lot of the old folk remedies for chest colds
>>>>>>>> involving
>>>>>>>> smearing goose grease on the victim. After rendering out the grease
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> meat is dark and scanty relative to the size of the goose, like duck.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This only applies to domesticated varieties that don't fly much.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wild goose is lean and the breast is brown, not white to show its
>>>>>>> muscle that gets *used*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think chickens and turkeys that have have been bred to maximize
>>>>>>>> meat
>>>>>>>> spoil the playing field.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All domesticated species lose flavour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was in sardinia and stopped to see a guy barbecuing something. I
>>>>>>> asked what it was 'wild baby pig'.
>>>>>>> We bought some to eat. It was delicious! I asked 'what herbs did you
>>>>>>> use?' He laughed and pointed to the hillside 'all herb. Pig eat!'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We pay a price for cheap meat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These days free range pigs abound here in the UK and the pork has
>>>>>>> never been better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frankly if I am going to eat meat, I want to eat good meat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ahh... same methodology used when it comes to icelandic lamb. They roam
>>>>>> and eat the herbs on the moutain sides. The best lamb in the world!
>>>>>
>>>>> Well the Welsh would argue with you there.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I would expect Icelandic to be good
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely outstanding. Very difficult to get outside of iceland. Do the
>>>> welsh export a lot of lamb? I would be up for the challenge to compare it
>>>> with icelandic.
>>>
>>> Welsh lamb is apparently renowned world wide. It's hard to get even in the
>>> UK
>>>
>>> I think France imports most of it. French love their lamb, which is odd,
>>> since it is almost unheard of in Germany.
>>>
>>> Wales is hilly, not to say mountainous, and wet as - a very wet thing. Not
>>> as cold as iceland.
>>
>> I wonder how the herbs differ? If the lamb in wales run around freely on
>> the mountain sides, I can imagine that there could be similarities!
>
> Not much on a welsh hillside sadly.

That's sad from the point of view of the meat. =(

> I cant think of any herbs I found when clambering over the hills. Found a
> force landed helicopter though once.
>
> I was nice up there., You could look DOWN on the jets doing subsonic passes
> up the valleys.

Similar to my house in spain. It's in a mountainous area and I haven't
seen it myself but my father told me that the spanish airforce do the same
kind of practice there.

It is very impressive! Now, due to the Ukraine situation, I've twice seen
fighter jets above my house.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gQz-5HclDo
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT7qrYi8R_M
>
> That's all lamb country on the hills.
> To steep for crops.
>
>

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 03/12/2024 20:18, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/12/2024 20:38, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/12/2024 14:06, D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/12/2024 20:40, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2024 10:42:05 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The only poison in them was lead pellets and you spit those out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/toxic-montana-lakes-kills-
>>>>>>>> hundreds-and-maybe-thousands-snow-geese-180961356/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You wouldn't want to dine on one of those geese.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the fact that they were dead floating on a lake might be a
>>>>>>> clue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In London a woman was seriously injured by a dead duck falling on her
>>>>>>> head
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was standing by my car one day when a pigeons fell out of the sky.
>>>>>>> It wasn't dead, but when I came back it had died.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One tends to avoid eating such.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rabbits that are dying from myxomatosis happen in some years, and
>>>>>>> apparently the meat is edible, but not much eats it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about roadkill? Did you ever try?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not bunnies
>>>>> Eaten pheasant and deer
>>>>>
>>>>> Both V good
>>>>
>>>> I guess the trick is to find fresh roadkill.
>>>
>>> Well yes. Technically you should not collect anything you have killed, but
>>> if the car in front hits it, it is, so to speak, 'fair game'...
>>
>> Touché!
>>
>>> Pheasant must be what the person who invented the phrase 'bird brained'
>>> had in mind.
>>>
>>> They get bred in captivity and released in the autumn to get a bit leery
>>> and them shot around Christmas time, so you get a flood of avian retards
>>> waddling round the roads at this time of year.
>>
>> This is the truth! They were bred in captivity close to my country side
>> house, and one day either the farm closed, the birds escaped, or both. So
>> now there are "wild" pheasants running around there from time to time. I
>> have thought about getting out the old longbow, since they are not shy at
>> all. Maybe a project for next summer!
>>
>
> I shot one with a .22 air rifle.
>
> It didn't die. I tried to wring its neck.

Too little energy I assume? Did you hit it dead center?

> The head came off, and it still didn't die.

Surely it must have been only reflexes?

> Eventually it died and I plucked it and emptied its insides and ate it. Quite
> good really.

I can imagine!

> Mostly they use 12 gauge on them. That seems to kill them ouright

I think you can buy small mines made specifically for birds! ;)

>
>

On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 03/12/2024 20:21, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 10:45:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> I get the impressions Utah doesn't care much about federal laws and
>>>> doesn't have too many state laws.
>>>
>>> Utah is an odd state. As you drive down one of the canyons you can look
>>> across and see the rifle pits that were constructed during the Mormon War.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War
>>>
>>> My brother lived in Utah for about 20 years. He had his work but his wife
>>> referred to it as 'camping out'. In the '60s and '70s everything revolved
>>> around the LDS church. If you were what they referred to as a 'gentile'
>>> there wasn't much. The author Ed Abbey quipped that only in Utah can a Jew
>>> be a gentile. It's liberalized quite a bit since then but it's still
>>> controlled by the LDS.
>>
>> Was he able to have many women when he lived there? ;)
>>
>>>> Nice low population density = no need for too much regulation.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>>> List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population_density
>>>
>>> The numbers are somewhat deceiving. The valley along the lake from Ogden
>>> to Provo has about 1.2 million people, greater than the entire population
>>> of Montana.
>>>
>>> https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ut/salt-lake-city/crime#description
>>>
>>>
>>>> Anyone eaten squirrel?
>>>
>>> Yes. Tastes like tough chicken.
>>
>> If you catch one, make sure you save the tail hair. Apparently, according
>> to the wife, that's what is used for very high quality paint brushes!
>
> Indeed it is.
>
> I picked one up once, it was a bit tame. Then it got scared and ploughed
> furrows in my hands.

They are very cute, but can be annoying! There lives on close to the
camper where I sleep in the country side. In summer, sometimes he goes
crazy and starts to throw stuff on the roof of the camper or runs across
the roof several times for some reason. Annoying when you've been up at 05
for early morning fishing and trying to recover! ;)

> I understand now how they climb trees. They come with crampons built in
>
>
>

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
> His wife was the daughter of a Baptist minister. I don't think she was
> into the polygamy bit.

What a shame! ;)

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinesdale,_Montana
>
> The AUB is a fundamentalist offspring of the LDS church and the common
> belief is that they're polygamists. They don't cause problems so nobody
> looks too closely.
>
> The town is at the base of the Bitterroot range and there are hiking
> trails on the slopes. One Sunday I met a young man, two young women, and
> several kids on a trail taking a stroll. They were polite, well dressed
> and appeared to be enjoying the nice weather. Not my place to get into
> their living arrangements.

This is the truth! As long as all is voluntary and everyone happy, who am I to
quarrel? But I do find the assymetry of the arrangement interesting. You never
read about LDS women having many men. But to each his own.

>> If you catch one, make sure you save the tail hair. Apparently,
>> according to the wife, that's what is used for very high quality paint
>> brushes!
>
> I skinned out the squirrels and rabbits I shot and tanned the hides. With
> a squirrel you can pull the vertebrae out and leave the tail intact.
> Squirrels have a much thicker hide than rabbits. A tanned rabbit hide is
> almost like parchment with fur on it, quite supple. A squirrel is very
> stiff until you work the hide like you would with buckskin.

Hmm... rabbit slippers? Save the ears! ;)

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 20:55:05 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> I picked one up once, it was a bit tame. Then it got scared and ploughed
>> furrows in my hands.
>>
>> I understand now how they climb trees. They come with crampons built in
>
> When I was a kid there was a squirrel that came around at breakfast time
> looking for a handout. He would hang on the kitchen window screen and look
> in until he got his treat. It wasn't really animal abuse but I would give
> him bread with peanut butter. He enjoyed the peanut butter but it was
> amusing watching him trying to get it off the roof of his mouth.
>

In todays youtube world, you could have been a millionaire with a video of
that!

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:18:55 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> This is the truth! They were bred in captivity close to my country side
>> house, and one day either the farm closed, the birds escaped, or both.
>> So now there are "wild" pheasants running around there from time to
>> time. I have thought about getting out the old longbow, since they are
>> not shy at all. Maybe a project for next summer!
>
> That could be interesting. My father and I were rabbit hunting when a
> pheasant provided a target of opportunity. My father managed to knock the
> bird down and it landed in some brush about 50 yards away. The beagle ran
> over but after a brief scuffle the pheasant flew off and the beagle
> decided he wasn't a bird dog.
>

Really?? Was that a very small beagle, or a very big bird? ;)

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:16:57 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I wonder how the herbs differ? If the lamb in wales run around freely on
>> the mountain sides, I can imagine that there could be similarities!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uCDw30wCe0
>
> https://www.wildfoodie.co.uk/post/wild-thyme-fragrant-treasure
>
> "Wild thyme is indigenous to the UK, and its natural distribution spans
> across the country. It is particularly abundant in England and Wales,
> though it can also be found in parts of Scotland and Northern Ireland. Due
> to its adaptability to various habitats, you can encounter wild thyme in a
> diverse range of landscapes"

Thyme and rosemary are both excellent with lamb!

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:25:12 +0100, D wrote:
>
>
>> Sounds like a similar situation. Have there ever been initiatives to try
>> and clean it up?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milltown_Reservoir_Superfund_Site
>
> There are several projects along the river. The mines were in Butte and
> the chief problem there is the Berkeley Pit.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Pit
>
> Prior to the open pit mine the hill is riddled with traditional hard rock
> mines. When they were active pumps kept the ground water in control. The
> pumps were turned off in '82 and the pit started to fill.
>
> The ores were smelted in Anaconda.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaconda_Smelter_Stack
>
> They realized the problem and the stack was an attempt to get the fumes
> out of the valley. It succeeded in that but they also had to buy a lot of
> land downwind. Even today not much grows there and the few trees are
> deformed. Anaconda took a novel approach and built a golf course on the
> tailings.
>
> https://nicklausdesign.com/course/oldworks/
>
> There still are acres of uncovered tailings. If you take the hiking traill
> around the course you get to see the before state.
>
> Then there was the Milltown Dam. There was a lot of foot dragging and
> finger pointing but in '96 an exceptionally snowy winter formed ice floes
> and the dam was in danger of failing. That got peoples' attention. It was
> a long process but the sediments were sent back to Anaconda where they
> came from and the dam was removed. When you've got lemons, make a state
> park.
>
> https://fwp.mt.gov/stateparks/milltown
>
> The web site is a bit dated. The dam had acted to stabilize a rock face on
> the south side where the overlook is. A couple of years ago they decided
> it was unstable and closed it off. The old Milwaukee rail line has been
> converted to a bike path but Tunnel 26 1/2 passes under the outlook and
> the state isn't going to take the liability for that. There was also a
> plan to use an old bridge to cross the river where the rail bridge was and
> connect the north and south parts of the park but that's held up with some
> land deal. I often hike the trail up and over the ridge and down to the
> floodplain on the other side but it would be a difficult bike ride.

Surely looks like good fishing on the web site! =) But maybe it is fishing
only, and not eating them?

Regardless positive that they decided to make a state park out of it!

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:24:24 +0100, D wrote:
>
>
>> A cider... the drink of the gods! But it has to be dry cider. I can't
>> stand the sugar filled versions.
>
> https://westerncider.com/ciders-on-tap
>
> I have no first hand knowledge but they have quite a selection. Quite a
> dew microbreweries sprung up and these people decided to try cider. I've
> walked by and it does seem to attract a crowd but not quite as much as the
> breweries.
>
> It's a little more authentic than a couple of attempts at wineries. Grapes
> don't do well here so most of the grapes are imported with a few locally
> grown grapes thrown in. One woman was honest enough to make wine from
> stuff that does grow locally like rhubarb. No idea about that wither.

I have a neighbour who does some kind of black currant wine and
apparently, according to my father, it was awful. ;)

But overall, I think as long as apples grow, it should be possible to do
some very beautiful things in terms of cider!

>> I had a meeting with the US office of a customer of mine this monday,
>> and apparently a bear came to visit them for thanks giving in Lake
>> tahoe. It was not aggressive and after some souting and jumping up and
>> down, it walked away.
>
> One of our people was returning from lunch and took a photo of a bear
> crossing at a 4-way stop at the corner of our parking lot. The bear seemed
> to have a destination although the next street in the direction he was
> headed was a major thoroughfare where all the big box stores and fast food
> places live. Maybe he wanted a taco or maybe he didn't get the memo. 30
> years ago that street was a two lane road at the edge of town.

It is inspiring that the bears are so integrated into society, welcomed on
equal terms. ;)

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, Robert Riches wrote:

> On 2024-12-02, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/12/2024 19:13, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2024 18:32:59 +0100, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I read that in terms of protein, breeding snakes is the Donald Trump of
>>>>> protein when it comes to price! A free business idea for this group
>>>>> could be to start a snake breeding farm and sell chicken:ish, protein at
>>>>> very good prices!
>>>>
>>>> https://amaroohills.com/collections/emu
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about snake but raising emus was a get rich quick scheme
>>>> years ago. A company at the Arizona state fair was giving out emu burgers
>>>> to attract attention. It wasn't objectionable but the idea didn't catch
>>>> on. It has the 'neither fish nor fowl' problem. It doesn't taste like
>>>> chicken or quite like beef.
>>>>
>>> Same as ostrich. It's just not very interesting as meat
>>>
>>> There is a huge range of meat (and fungi) that are edible, but so dull or
>>> faintly obnoxious that no one does.
>>>
>>> Wild hare (jack rabbit) tastes and smells like jockstraps after a hard match.
>>> By the time you have got rid of that flavour all the other flavour has gone
>>> too.
>>>
>>> Same goes for the muddy taste in pond reared carp.
>>>
>>> Rabbit is plain dull. But in a stew with bacon and vegetables and plenty of
>>> herbs, its not bad
>>
>> I bought some rabbit sausage the other week, and it tasted like
>> tasteless chicken sausage. Perhaps a little less smooth texture. It wasn't
>> bad, but definitely not something to write home about either.
>
> About 45 years ago, while eating in the college dorm cafeteria, I
> noticed the piece of "chicken" on my plate was a little tougher
> and drier than most chicken, and the arrangement of the bones did
> not appear to be consistent with any piece of chicken I had ever
> seen. I had eaten rabbit a few years earlier, when my uncle was
> raising them, so I started to suspect the "chicken" was really
> rabbit. My suspicion was confirmed when I heard a girl shriek
> rather unhappily from a couple of tables away, "We're eating
> BUNNIES!"

How strange! How come they didn't just say that todays special was rabbit?
Or maybe there was an error somewhere with the delivery and some boxed got
mixed up?

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/3/24 4:13 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/2/24 9:02 AM, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 01/12/2024 17:32, D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 30/11/2024 20:54, D wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well pie it with bacon mushroom and a white wine white sauce. Or
>>>>>>>>> curry the bugger.
>>>>>>>>> Or buy a chicken from someone who keeps them around the back yard
>>>>>>>>> eating worms and stuff. THEY have taste
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After christmas, this is exactly the experiment I am embarking upon.
>>>>>>>> The wife will buy a chicken from a free range farm, and we'll see how
>>>>>>>> it compares. My bet is it will be better, but not good enough to get
>>>>>>>> me to enjoy chicken breast.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would concur with that. Chicken is cheap protein. Expecting it to be
>>>>>>> more is nuts. All reptiles - and birds evolved from reptiles - 'tastes
>>>>>>> like chicken'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I read that in terms of protein, breeding snakes is the Donald Trump of
>>>>>> protein when it comes to price! A free business idea for this group
>>>>>> could be to start a snake breeding farm and sell chicken:ish, protein
>>>>>> at very good prices!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then there's also insect protein. I do not know how it compared with
>>>>>> snake protein.
>>>>>>
>>>>> In S Africa Locusts and crickets were known as 'pParkhurst prawns'
>>>>>
>>>>> Edible if you wanted.
>>>>
>>>> Fascinating to think about that, given the enormous amount of locusts
>>>> which plague them from time to time. Huge amounts of protein there, just
>>>> for the taking!
>>>
>>>
>>>  Yea ... if you're down with locusts  :-)
>>>
>>>  There IS a vocal segment that basically want to FORCE
>>>  everybody to eat insects almost entirely as "meat".
>>
>> This is not good. I have nothing against the free and voluntary consumption
>> of insects. If you're into it, be my guest! I am against forced
>> consumption. But, given the amount of famine and starving children in
>> africa, it would be interested to see if something could be done with the
>> locust swarms to get cheap protein for the people.
>>
>> If I did not have food, I'd welcome insect food over nothing at all. In
>> fact I've had grass hopper (deep fried) and it was actually quite good. I
>> also had scorpion when I went to china once, and it tasted like a crunchy
>> shrimp.
>>
>>>  Sorry, I like my meat to have had a moo or cluck or
>>>  squeal .......
>>>
>>>  Oh, avoid deer/moose meat now ... there's a lot of
>>>  something like Mad Cow prion going around. NO cure
>>>  for that. Bear meat - only WELL done as they tend
>>>  to be full of parasites (bear meat isn't that good
>>>  anyway).
>>
>> In sweden deer/moose is ok at the moment I think (and hope). The only thing
>> you need to be careful with is boar and if you fish in a plluted lake. That
>> is, definitely do _not_ eat anything from central stockholm where for many
>> decades heavy industry poured out its filth into the water.
>>
>> It's improving, but still not good enough. If you're 30 minutes away by
>> boat from the center, then you can start to eat an occasional fish or two.
>
>
> The prion problem seems localized to north America
> at the moment. You're probably OK in Sweden, for now.
>
> Alas, the way 'conservationists' tend to move-around
> species .......
>
> Bear ... it's really kinda yuk.

I never had bear myself, but my father once had it in Helsinki in a
russian restaurant. Apparently he thought it was quite alright, although
not something he was dreaming about afterwards.

> Wild boar, anywhere, STILL tend to carry nasty
> parasites. Always cook well-done.

Wild boar is very tasty! I had bbq:d smoked boar two years ago, and it was
amazing!

On 04/12/2024 00:30, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:18:55 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> This is the truth! They were bred in captivity close to my country side
>> house, and one day either the farm closed, the birds escaped, or both.
>> So now there are "wild" pheasants running around there from time to
>> time. I have thought about getting out the old longbow, since they are
>> not shy at all. Maybe a project for next summer!
>
> That could be interesting. My father and I were rabbit hunting when a
> pheasant provided a target of opportunity. My father managed to knock the
> bird down and it landed in some brush about 50 yards away. The beagle ran
> over but after a brief scuffle the pheasant flew off and the beagle
> decided he wasn't a bird dog.

LOL!

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 04/12/2024 00:32, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 20:53:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Mostly they use 12 gauge on them. That seems to kill them ouright
>
> If you get a solid hit. See my other post about beagle versus pheasant.

Many are 'winged' that is they get a broken wing, and they cant fly.
Then the retrievers...retrieve them. I am not sure how they get killed,.
Retrievers have very soft mouths and do not damage them.
The ones then end up with breasts full of bird shot are the ones I used
to get given. Ugly colored bruising and not too appetising. Pheasant
vinadaloo however is very nice indeed.

(Vindaloo has a lot of chilli, and vinegar and hot pungent spices)
--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 04/12/2024 00:42, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 21:16:57 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I wonder how the herbs differ? If the lamb in wales run around freely on
>> the mountain sides, I can imagine that there could be similarities!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uCDw30wCe0
>
Ah. Celtic melodies - the basis for much of the USAs country music.

> https://www.wildfoodie.co.uk/post/wild-thyme-fragrant-treasure
>
> "Wild thyme is indigenous to the UK, and its natural distribution spans
> across the country. It is particularly abundant in England and Wales,
> though it can also be found in parts of Scotland and Northern Ireland. Due
> to its adaptability to various habitats, you can encounter wild thyme in a
> diverse range of landscapes"
>
Oh That stuff. Seen it a lot in wales. I wonder if the sheep eat it?

--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.