On 2024-05-30 9:31 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 5/30/2024 7:18 AM, Joel wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Doesn't it feel nice to state facts
>>> rather than pull information out of your own ass?
>>
>>
>> You mean how you claim trans people are mentally ill,
>
> No doubt about that whatsoever.
>
> Your "trans gf" getting sexually excited by buttfucking you proves he
> still feels, thinks and acts like a degenerate male.
>
>
>
>> You're the type of person that leads people to be
>> anti-Caucasian, even though that's too generalizing, but it sure fits
>> you.
>
> I've seen it a million times on the YouTube channel 'Indisputable wif
> "Doctor" Rashad Richey': jigaboos hate to be disscrimminalisionatnasted
> against and judged by the actions of other blacks, but they sure don't
> mind doing it to Whitey.

I saw a video last night which pretty much summarized how these people
think. In it, you see three Zoom windows: the prosecution, the judge and
the Black male who is seen driving. As he is parking his car at his
doctor's office, the judge says "he's driving" and then "are you
immobilized?" to which the black man says "just about, yeah." The judge
then looks at his bailiff and goes "he doesn't have a license. He's here
for driving with a license. I have it right here in the papers that he
doesn't have a license."

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-30 9:32 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 5/30/2024 6:46 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2024-05-30 2:27 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Wed, 29 May 2024 08:02:14 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Spoken like someone who's never used Windows 2000. That version of
>>>> Windows was spectacular ...
>>>
>>> HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
>>>
>>> The best looking, and functioning, GUIs of the 1990s were the Unix
>>> workstations. That is the heritage that Linux comes from. Windows was a
>>> toy by comparison.
>>
>> A ridiculous lie.
>>
>>> For example, SGI were the pioneers of real-time 3D interfaces, back when
>>> it took fiendishly expensive hardware to do such things. Again, today’s
>>> real-time effects on *nix build on that heritage.
>>>
>>> I already mentioned multiple desktops from the OSF crowd. Sun did
>>> tear-off
>>> menus. Note also other innovations like focus-follows-mouse, taskbarless
>>> desktops, cut/copy/paste in terminal windows, and the Compose key as
>>> a far
>>> more mnemonic way of typing non-ASCII characters than the clumsy Windows
>>> alt-character-code rigmarole.
>>
>> All features no one other than neck-bearded fat asses who sit at their
>> computer at stare at a top instance would care about.
>
>
> LOL!
>
> and User-Agent: Betterbird (Windows)
>
> You're back!

I'm not "back," I'm in Windows mostly because of the media I've
purchased through the Windows store. As for Betterbird, everything else
just sucks as a newsreader, and I'm not willing to sacrifice
functionality because the news servers I use can't get their act
together to produce a working server.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>On 5/30/2024 7:18 AM, Joel wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Doesn't it feel nice to state facts
>>> rather than pull information out of your own ass?
>>
>> You mean how you claim trans people are mentally ill,
>
>No doubt about that whatsoever.

Phobe.

>Your "trans gf" getting sexually excited by buttfucking you proves he
>still feels, thinks and acts like a degenerate male.

That *isn't* true, first of all, trans women sometimes are top or
versatile, my GF is not, though, I've talked to her about that and
she's not into it. But I will suck her dick, so, big difference
there.

>> You're the type of person that leads people to be
>> anti-Caucasian, even though that's too generalizing, but it sure fits
>> you.
>
>I've seen it a million times on the YouTube channel 'Indisputable wif
>"Doctor" Rashad Richey': jigaboos hate to be disscrimminalisionatnasted
>against and judged by the actions of other blacks, but they sure don't
>mind doing it to Whitey.

Racist.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>On 5/30/2024 6:46 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2024-05-30 2:27 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> For example, SGI were the pioneers of real-time 3D interfaces, back when
>>> it took fiendishly expensive hardware to do such things. Again, today’s
>>> real-time effects on *nix build on that heritage.
>>>
>>> I already mentioned multiple desktops from the OSF crowd. Sun did
>>> tear-off
>>> menus. Note also other innovations like focus-follows-mouse, taskbarless
>>> desktops, cut/copy/paste in terminal windows, and the Compose key as a
>>> far
>>> more mnemonic way of typing non-ASCII characters than the clumsy Windows
>>> alt-character-code rigmarole.
>>
>> All features no one other than neck-bearded fat asses who sit at their
>> computer at stare at a top instance would care about.
>
>LOL!
>
>and User-Agent: Betterbird (Windows)
>
>You're back!

Andrzej flip-flops on OS like I flip-flop about which drug I want at a
given moment. Just bizarre. The only time I came close to doing that
was because I got a whole new computer, after finding modern Win10 a
disaster on my old one, so I had gone from Linux to Win10 briefly on
it, and back to Linux, but I stayed with Win10 and 11 for over two
years on the new one.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>On 2024-05-30 9:31 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>
>> I've seen it a million times on the YouTube channel 'Indisputable wif
>> "Doctor" Rashad Richey': jigaboos hate to be disscrimminalisionatnasted
>> against and judged by the actions of other blacks, but they sure don't
>> mind doing it to Whitey.
>
>I saw a video last night which pretty much summarized how these people
>think. In it, you see three Zoom windows: the prosecution, the judge and
>the Black male who is seen driving. As he is parking his car at his
>doctor's office, the judge says "he's driving" and then "are you
>immobilized?" to which the black man says "just about, yeah." The judge
>then looks at his bailiff and goes "he doesn't have a license. He's here
>for driving with a license. I have it right here in the papers that he
>doesn't have a license."

Crime of the fuckin' century, there ...

Face it, they are far more likely to catch a black male doing that,
given how they target them in traffic stops. Whites do the same shit.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 5/29/2024 9:16 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Wed, 29 May 2024 18:49:40 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
> <6657b101$0$1245638$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>
>> On 5/28/2024 11:49 PM, vallor wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 23:17:32 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>> <66569e4b$8$1258331$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 5/28/2024 11:12 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 22:26:01 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>> <v363no$viqs$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/28/2024 10:24 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 21:17:06 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> <66568211$2$8094$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2024 2:50 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-28 9:34 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you bought a machine which was designed to run Linux,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't know there was such a thing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does that mean Windows won't run on them?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wouldn't want to try to run Windows on this system, unless it was
>>>>>>> in a virt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> First, I don't want Microsoft to get its greasy fingers on my EFI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Second, it probably doesn't have drivers for the custom daughterboard
>>>>> that runs the cooling, and I'm not willing to spend the time to chase
>>>>> down Windows drivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Third...there's no need. The system is perfectly fine with what it
>>>>> has,
>>>>> and needs nothing that Windows has to offer. If that changed, maybe
>>>>> I'd rethink it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What are the exact specs of the hardware?
>>> This is the 1.0 version, I have the 1.1 version:
>>>
>>> https://tech-docs.system76.com/models/thelio-mega-r1.0/README.html
>>>
>>> With a AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X. 256G of ECC memory.
>>>
>>> NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti
>>>
>>> If the daughterboard isn't supported on Windows, all the cooling fans
>>> will run full-speed, which would be annoying.
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/system76/thelio-io-windows
>>
>> Now remove that Linux shit by slicking it with a Windows disk.
>
> That would be a downgrade.
>
>>
>> Enjoy good software and games for a change.
>
> The software I use is more Linux-oriented than Windows-oriented.

Not understanding this.

>> Use WSL if you have a compulsion for a bash shell.
>
> I would use Cygwin, if I wanted to downgrade.
>
>
>> Embrace Notepad++ and MS Office and
>> AIDA64. Move out of the ghetto to the suburbs.
>>
>> https://imgur.com/a/ZhwJJLz
>
> LOL. "[TRIAL VERSION]". Talk about "ghetto".

ha!

I just recently tried AIDA64 for the first time. I'm trying to get them
to sell me a one-PC license for $20. The current license if 3 PCs for $60.

Even $20 is too much for a system info app that I'll barely use, but
it's a masterful piece of software. Too bad Linux has nothing
approaching it.

>> Note: why did you buy such a powerful system?
>
> Because I didn't want my system to be weak. I wanted
> a workstation, not just a desktop. (Even so, for a workstation,
> it's actually a little on the low-end.)

It's scary that you/others consider your system 'low-end'. It's an
incredible amount of computing power to have in front of you.

Looking at various 'workstations' online, the graphics card often makes
up 1/2 the price.

Note: I wrote a python program to parse Usenet message files one at a
time and add them to a SQLite relational db. On my AMD 5600G/16GB
memory system, the program never runs slower than ~200 posts PER SECOND.

If I run the program for N posts, then rerun it for the same N posts (eg
after fixing a minor code issue), it will often run at 1200 to 2000
posts per second. I was shocked when I saw that.

I have to wonder what a system like yours would do.

> For example, I can use the ramdisk for images for virts.
>
> I can also unpack sources on my ramdisk for faster compilation, and
> build them with "make -j 64".
>
> I run games and stream them with obs-studio, which takes
> serious horsepower. 4K video is like that. Also editing
> the video benefits from the extra horsepower.

So you paid $5K+ to record video gaming streams (not that there's
anything wrong with that).

Aside: did you follow the demise of Artisan Builds computer builder?
Their downfall began with the CEO making fun online of a Twitch streamer.

> I also use Foocus for generative AI, text-to-image.

https://github.com/lllyasviel/Fooocus/releases/download/release/Fooocus_win64_2-1-831.7z

> Did you watch the video that rbowman posted? Linus was surprised
> at the Linux performance of his little Thelio. It beat MS Windows
> in many ways.

link please. I'd like to see it.

On 5/30/2024 8:14 AM, RonB wrote:
> On 2024-05-29, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-29 5:36 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>> On 5/28/2024 7:35 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> Regardless of all that, according to Microsoft’s own research, a
>>>> supposedly fully-service-packed Windows installation still requires up to
>>>> 8 hours to get its patches up to date.
>>>
>>> Which version of Windows?
>>>
>>> What's your source?
>>
>> He would be correct if he were referring to Windows 7 or 8.1. However,
>> if a person downloads an ISO of Windows 10 or 11 directly from Microsoft
>> today, as they should, the installation and all recent updates will take
>> no more than an hour.
>
> Where a Linux install and complete update (including apps) now takes about
> 20-25 minutes with relatively fast Internet service.

Then you have to go thru and uninstall all the unwanted (cr)apps a Linux
distro forces on you.

On 2024-05-30 10:11 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 5/30/2024 8:14 AM, RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-05-29, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-29 5:36 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>> On 5/28/2024 7:35 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Regardless of all that, according to Microsoft’s own research, a
>>>>> supposedly fully-service-packed Windows installation still requires
>>>>> up to
>>>>> 8 hours to get its patches up to date.
>>>>
>>>> Which version of Windows?
>>>>
>>>> What's your source?
>>>
>>> He would be correct if he were referring to Windows 7 or 8.1. However,
>>> if a person downloads an ISO of Windows 10 or 11 directly from Microsoft
>>> today, as they should, the installation and all recent updates will take
>>> no more than an hour.
>>
>> Where a Linux install and complete update (including apps) now takes
>> about
>> 20-25 minutes with relatively fast Internet service.
>
>
> Then you have to go thru and uninstall all the unwanted (cr)apps a Linux
> distro forces on you.

Fedora comes bare bones whereas Ubuntu includes an installation option
wherein they give you the basics unless you choose a set of default
applications.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2024-05-30 7:47 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-05-29, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-29 11:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-29, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-05-29 1:42 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:10:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Funny enough, the guy I worked with who was a Linux die-hard also used
>>>>>>> the rotating cube to "convince" me that Linux was better. My only
>>>>>>> response to him was "that's pretty, how is this better than pressing
>>>>>>> alt-tab?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alt-tab is just for switching windows within a desktop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On KDE, I also have keyboard shortcuts for switching desktops.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (You know about multiple desktops? A feature which the *nix world has had
>>>>>> since the days of OSF Motif/CDE, which Microsoft is now trying to emulate
>>>>>> but still can’t get right?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The desktop cube, wobbly windows, disintegrating windows ... that’s all
>>>>>> just bling for inducing Linux-envy among Windows sufferers.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point here is that switching desktops is a useless feature for most
>>>>> users. Zealots like you swear by them, but most people see nothing wrong
>>>>> with just minimizing a window and switching from one application to
>>>>> another by using alt-tab. Once again, you completely miss the point
>>>>> because of your zealotry.
>>>>
>>>> I'm guessing that most people who don't use multiple desktops are ignorant
>>>> about how useful this feature is. This was one of the first things that
>>>> attracted me to Linux when moving over from Windows. Separate desktops for
>>>> separate jobs. I use this feature constantly.
>>>
>>> It might be useful for some, but most people won't see a point to them.
>>> If you want one desktop for media consumption, one for gaming and one
>>> for word processing, knock yourself out. Most people will just put the
>>> applications for all three categories in the same desktop and minimize
>>> whatever they're not using.
>>
>> Less efficient, in my opinion.
>
> Tell yourself that a lot of people see minimizing an application to be
> more efficient because it ends up consuming less power, CPU and RAM than
> one that's constantly open in a virtual desktop.

Minimizing a window generally doesn't cause the application to use less CPU or
memory. Same with an application not visible because it's in another virtual
desktop. Also depends what the application does in the background vs
updating an open window.

Besides, I think Ron means it's more efficient for his workflow.

>> And most people's hands are glued to the
>> mouse, which is also less efficient (again, in my opinion).
>
> I agree here. There are certain things which absolutely need to be done
> with a keyboard.

--
He that is giddy thinks the world turns round.
-- William Shakespeare, "The Taming of the Shrew"

Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2024-05-30 7:11 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> <snippage>
>>>
>>> Whether D'Oliveiro wants to admit it or not, Windows 2000 and XP both
>>> looked like professional operating systems when they were released, and
>>> they had a polished look which is often sorely lacking from Linux
>>> desktop environments. Aside from Ubuntu which always manages to make
>>> GNOME look great, the desktop environment of choice in most
>>> distributions always has elements which simply don't look right. It's
>>> still a fantastic environment which allows you to do every job you can
>>> think of and more very effectively, but there is no reason to criticize
>>> the way that any version of Windows has looked when the current crop of
>>> Linux desktop environments don't look better at all.
>>
>> Opinions are like assholes... everyone has one.
>
> What if you identify as asshole-challenged? I'm sure that's one of the
> letters in the homosexual alphabet by now.

Then one would have a "cloaca".

--
You are a very redundant person, that's what kind of person you are.

Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2024-05-30 7:27 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> <brevsnip>
>
>> I'm glad you agree with my assessment of Windows :-).
>
> I agree only that while being a lot more functional than Windows for
> much of its existence, Linux still looks like a Pontiac Sunfire.

"Linux" has all kinds of looks:

- Plain text-only terminal screen with multiple virtual consoles.
Can also run tmux or GNU screen to get multiple consoles and
panes.
- Generic old-style GUI with something like TWM.
- Manual and dynamic tiling window managers like i3 or Sway, DWM or
AwesomeWM.
- Simple-looking overlapping window managers like OpenBox or FluxBox.
They can be customized with other components for the taskbar, slot,
etc.
- Desktop built for kids: Sugar (started with the OLPC, has
a GTK+ theme engine as well)
- The whole gamut of desktops: Lxde, Xfce, GNOME, Cinnamon, Mate,
KDE.

Not to mention all the theming engines available, along with icon sets, mouse
cursors, stand-alone menus and taskbars.

So no, there's no single look to "Linux".

--
Cold hands, no gloves.

On 2024-05-30 10:51 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 2024-05-30 7:47 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-29, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-29 11:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-05-29, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-05-29 1:42 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:10:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Funny enough, the guy I worked with who was a Linux die-hard also used
>>>>>>>> the rotating cube to "convince" me that Linux was better. My only
>>>>>>>> response to him was "that's pretty, how is this better than pressing
>>>>>>>> alt-tab?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alt-tab is just for switching windows within a desktop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On KDE, I also have keyboard shortcuts for switching desktops.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (You know about multiple desktops? A feature which the *nix world has had
>>>>>>> since the days of OSF Motif/CDE, which Microsoft is now trying to emulate
>>>>>>> but still can’t get right?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The desktop cube, wobbly windows, disintegrating windows ... that’s all
>>>>>>> just bling for inducing Linux-envy among Windows sufferers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point here is that switching desktops is a useless feature for most
>>>>>> users. Zealots like you swear by them, but most people see nothing wrong
>>>>>> with just minimizing a window and switching from one application to
>>>>>> another by using alt-tab. Once again, you completely miss the point
>>>>>> because of your zealotry.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm guessing that most people who don't use multiple desktops are ignorant
>>>>> about how useful this feature is. This was one of the first things that
>>>>> attracted me to Linux when moving over from Windows. Separate desktops for
>>>>> separate jobs. I use this feature constantly.
>>>>
>>>> It might be useful for some, but most people won't see a point to them.
>>>> If you want one desktop for media consumption, one for gaming and one
>>>> for word processing, knock yourself out. Most people will just put the
>>>> applications for all three categories in the same desktop and minimize
>>>> whatever they're not using.
>>>
>>> Less efficient, in my opinion.
>>
>> Tell yourself that a lot of people see minimizing an application to be
>> more efficient because it ends up consuming less power, CPU and RAM than
>> one that's constantly open in a virtual desktop.
>
> Minimizing a window generally doesn't cause the application to use less CPU or
> memory. Same with an application not visible because it's in another virtual
> desktop. Also depends what the application does in the background vs
> updating an open window.
>
> Besides, I think Ron means it's more efficient for his workflow.

No, I am right. <https://shorturl.at/iByNk>

It might be different in Linux, but that would only explain why battery
life is so poor on a Linux machine as compared to Windows on the same
hardware.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-30 11:26 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 2024-05-30 7:27 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>> <brevsnip>
>>
>>> I'm glad you agree with my assessment of Windows :-).
>>
>> I agree only that while being a lot more functional than Windows for
>> much of its existence, Linux still looks like a Pontiac Sunfire.
>
> "Linux" has all kinds of looks:
>
> - Plain text-only terminal screen with multiple virtual consoles.
> Can also run tmux or GNU screen to get multiple consoles and
> panes.

That's only for real men like Larry Pietraskiewicz though. I can't
imagine how strong the smell of testosterone must be in his mother's
basement!

> - Generic old-style GUI with something like TWM.
>
> - Manual and dynamic tiling window managers like i3 or Sway, DWM or
> AwesomeWM.
> - Simple-looking overlapping window managers like OpenBox or FluxBox.
> They can be customized with other components for the taskbar, slot,
> etc.
> - Desktop built for kids: Sugar (started with the OLPC, has
> a GTK+ theme engine as well)
> - The whole gamut of desktops: Lxde, Xfce, GNOME, Cinnamon, Mate,
> KDE.
>
> Not to mention all the theming engines available, along with icon sets, mouse
> cursors, stand-alone menus and taskbars.
>
> So no, there's no single look to "Linux".

You're right, except that every one of those environments still manages
to look worse than Windows 2000 did, hence my point. What's the point of
not eating a delicious banana when the alternative is an unlimited
supply of rotten apples?

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On Thu, 30 May 2024 07:27:50 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Now I've heard everything... Windows looking like a Porsche :-D

A Karmann Ghia would be more apt; a dressed up Type 1 Beetle. More
apropos, there was a period when the Type 3 1500 cc Beetle was introduced
when it was faster than the Type 14 Ghia. The Type 34 finally caught up.

Nothing wrong with Beetle and I sort of liked the Type 14 Ghias but they
sure as hell weren't Porsches.

On Thu, 30 May 2024 06:43:42 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I implore you to take a screenshot of a current Linux Mint desktop and
> one of a default Windows 2000 installation. Then, ask _strangers_, not
> zealots like yourself who probably pray to a photo of Stallman, what
> they think is prettier.

I wouldn't want a stranger looking at me like I were a total idiot.
Prettier? They're frigging computer desktop. Do you really think people
wander through BestBuy looking for the prettiest desktop?

On Thu, 30 May 2024 08:55:21 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Generally, I wouldn't be worried that drivers for the hardware used on
> Linux-minded laptops would be available. However, I wouldn't be
> surprised if I faced the same kind of issues using Windows on a Linux
> machine that I had using Linux on a Windows machine. Problems waking
> from sleep, graphical errors and things of the sort are very likely to
> happen.

The oddity I see with my Acer laptop with an open WSL session is Hyper-V
crashes if it sleeps. It will hibernate with no problem and the couple of
seconds difference in startup isn't a problem.

Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2024-05-30 10:51 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-30 7:47 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-29, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-05-29 11:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-05-29, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-05-29 1:42 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:10:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Funny enough, the guy I worked with who was a Linux die-hard also used
>>>>>>>>> the rotating cube to "convince" me that Linux was better. My only
>>>>>>>>> response to him was "that's pretty, how is this better than pressing
>>>>>>>>> alt-tab?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alt-tab is just for switching windows within a desktop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On KDE, I also have keyboard shortcuts for switching desktops.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (You know about multiple desktops? A feature which the *nix world has had
>>>>>>>> since the days of OSF Motif/CDE, which Microsoft is now trying to emulate
>>>>>>>> but still can’t get right?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The desktop cube, wobbly windows, disintegrating windows ... that’s all
>>>>>>>> just bling for inducing Linux-envy among Windows sufferers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point here is that switching desktops is a useless feature for most
>>>>>>> users. Zealots like you swear by them, but most people see nothing wrong
>>>>>>> with just minimizing a window and switching from one application to
>>>>>>> another by using alt-tab. Once again, you completely miss the point
>>>>>>> because of your zealotry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm guessing that most people who don't use multiple desktops are ignorant
>>>>>> about how useful this feature is. This was one of the first things that
>>>>>> attracted me to Linux when moving over from Windows. Separate desktops for
>>>>>> separate jobs. I use this feature constantly.
>>>>>
>>>>> It might be useful for some, but most people won't see a point to them.
>>>>> If you want one desktop for media consumption, one for gaming and one
>>>>> for word processing, knock yourself out. Most people will just put the
>>>>> applications for all three categories in the same desktop and minimize
>>>>> whatever they're not using.
>>>>
>>>> Less efficient, in my opinion.
>>>
>>> Tell yourself that a lot of people see minimizing an application to be
>>> more efficient because it ends up consuming less power, CPU and RAM than
>>> one that's constantly open in a virtual desktop.
>>
>> Minimizing a window generally doesn't cause the application to use less CPU or
>> memory. Same with an application not visible because it's in another virtual
>> desktop. Also depends what the application does in the background vs
>> updating an open window.
>>
>> Besides, I think Ron means it's more efficient for his workflow.
>
> No, I am right. <https://shorturl.at/iByNk>

That's for Windows.

> It might be different in Linux, but that would only explain why battery
> life is so poor on a Linux machine as compared to Windows on the same
> hardware.

You are resurfacing news from years ago.

As I noted, my Lenovo Flex running Linux can last 13 hours or so (if I just let
it sit there doing nothing).

Some more anecdotal information:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/10kenc2/i_searched_the_internet_about_battery_life_on/

You seem to be sour about some things.

--
Must I hold a candle to my shames?
-- William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice"

On Thu, 30 May 2024 05:55:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> Java -- long-winded, and yet curiously lacking in some elementary
> functionality (e.g. unsigned ints, typedefs).

My initial project when I was learning Java was ill-advised. I was working
with the Atmel AVR family and decided to do a simple assembler/simulator.
Bit twiddling isn't Java's forte.

> Python -- remarkably small language core, yet great extensibility from
> the well-chosen features in that core.

While I've used Python for small projects for years I've only really dug
into in the last year or so. I'm impressed. I'm enough of a nerd to really
appreciate the stack machine that runs the byte code, but then I do have
Forth in my background.

Some of my education like when a typo inadvertently turned a list
comprehension into a generator. Interesting critters.

> C++ -- very powerful, but way too complex in order to keep things
> “efficient”.

I haven't kept up with it but there were a lot of pitfalls in its early
days. Stroustrup said something like 'C++ tries to prevent you from
shooting yourself in the foot but if you do you blow your whole leg off.'

> PHP -- just sad.

It was okay for what it originally was meant for -- Personal Home Pages.
Some things take on a life of their own like the Beginners' All-purpose
Symbolic Instruction Code.

Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2024-05-30 11:26 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-30 7:27 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> <brevsnip>
>>>
>>>> I'm glad you agree with my assessment of Windows :-).
>>>
>>> I agree only that while being a lot more functional than Windows for
>>> much of its existence, Linux still looks like a Pontiac Sunfire.
>>
>> "Linux" has all kinds of looks:
>>
>> - Plain text-only terminal screen with multiple virtual consoles.
>> Can also run tmux or GNU screen to get multiple consoles and
>> panes.
>
> That's only for real men like Larry Pietraskiewicz though. I can't
> imagine how strong the smell of testosterone must be in his mother's
> basement!
>
>> - Generic old-style GUI with something like TWM.
> >
>> - Manual and dynamic tiling window managers like i3 or Sway, DWM or
>> AwesomeWM.
>> - Simple-looking overlapping window managers like OpenBox or FluxBox.
>> They can be customized with other components for the taskbar, slot,
>> etc.
>> - Desktop built for kids: Sugar (started with the OLPC, has
>> a GTK+ theme engine as well)
>> - The whole gamut of desktops: Lxde, Xfce, GNOME, Cinnamon, Mate,
>> KDE.
>>
>> Not to mention all the theming engines available, along with icon sets, mouse
>> cursors, stand-alone menus and taskbars.
>>
>> So no, there's no single look to "Linux".
>
> You're right, except that every one of those environments still manages
> to look worse than Windows 2000 did, hence my point.

Sorry, but that's your take. I will say that GUIs that don't hide scrollbars
(until you hover near them), that have some depth to them to indicate controls
versus non-functional areas, and don't have invisible functional areas that you
have to stumble onto to find them, are better. In that regard, the Win 2000
desktop qualifies.

Still, the look is archaic, to me.

Nothing more elegant than an empty desktop that will show nothing but your
running apps. Eh, enough opinionting from me.

--
You never have to change anything you got up in the middle of the night
to write.
-- Saul Bellow

On Thu, 30 May 2024 05:50:22 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> There’s even more fun to be had from a scope than some might realize
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaTuFB5QXHo>.

Ah! Now I know what Philip Glass was striving for!

On Thu, 30 May 2024 12:00:04 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I feel the same. A desktop should be simple and direct and stay out of
> your way after you've started the application. I've been using basically
> the same desktop design for about 25 years. Why do I need something new
> and "innovative?" Just for the novelty of it?

Novelty sells. My brain focuses on information not presentation. Many
times I'll go to a website to find a thrilling, innovative redesign --
with the same information that was always there.

On Thu, 30 May 2024 12:10:11 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I'm not a fan of Ubuntu, originally because of Unity and then the Gnome
> 3 desktop — now I'm also not crazy about its use of Snaps. I'm also not
> a fan of moving my furniture around, just so my house "looks different."
> If you like Gnome 3, that's great. (I do have Ubuntu installed on a
> computer and I can get around on it, but I don't really like it. Choice
> is good.)

My first choice for this box was Kubuntu but I had problems with the iso
and wound up with Ubuntu. I'd rather have a start menu but usually I'm
starting from a command lin anyway.

I did have a Ubuntu install where I added the HDE desktop. It worked but
was a little fragile and had a few quirks so I'm not going that route
again. Besides, the Fedora KDE box is a KVM button away.

On Thu, 30 May 2024 09:04:13 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I'm not necessarily a fan of GNOME 3, but I became one because of how
> much hate it used to get at the beginning for trying to change the way
> people use their computers. People resistant change and GNOME, so I went
> out of my way to use it and figure out how it worked when it was
> released. I think that many of its ideas are smart ones.

Like Metro I think most of its ideas are aimed toward people more
acclimated to tablets and smartphones.

rbowman wrote:

> Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> I implore you to take a screenshot of a current Linux Mint desktop and
>> one of a default Windows 2000 installation. Then, ask _strangers_, not
>> zealots like yourself who probably pray to a photo of Stallman, what
>> they think is prettier.
>
>I wouldn't want a stranger looking at me like I were a total idiot.
>Prettier? They're frigging computer desktop. Do you really think people
>wander through BestBuy looking for the prettiest desktop?

Yeah, I've never given much thought to how my desktop looks. How
often is it even exposed?

--
"[chrisv] on the other hand predicted tablets to fail dismally." -
Hadron Quark, lying shamelessly

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 05:41 this Thursday (GMT):
> On Thu, 30 May 2024 02:25:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> At least the downloading is in the background from what I remember.
>
> And then the updating itself renders your machine unusable, because
> Windows cannot update files that are currently in use, like Linux can.

Huh, I didn't know that.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom