On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 11:00:25 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>There's really no hard and fast rule, although I generally don't
>disagree with your definitions. But, for instance, the recently
>released "Dark Forces" described itself as a "Remaster", even though
>it used an entirely new engine.

Ahh, ok. Then there really is no hard and fast rule then as you say.
Thank you.

>Also, reboots aren't limited to recreating a game; often, they just
>take some of the characters and general ideas of the game and
>represent it in a new way. This might go so far as change the game's
>genre entirely (for example, "Prince of Persia: Sands of Time")
>
>The TL;DR is that the words are used fairly interchangably in the
>industry and if you try to insist on specific definitions you're going
>to be incredibly frustrated. Marketing cares not for your definitions
>;-)

Point taken. :-P

>> If anyone wants this I've put the code on the Steam group.
>Is there a Steam group...?

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/CSPIGA

rms

On 11/11/2024 11:13 AM, Mike S. wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 11:00:25 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
> <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's really no hard and fast rule, although I generally don't
>> disagree with your definitions. But, for instance, the recently
>> released "Dark Forces" described itself as a "Remaster", even though
>> it used an entirely new engine.
>
> Ahh, ok. Then there really is no hard and fast rule then as you say.
> Thank you.
>
In Sales & Marketing there is only one hard & fast rule.

Take the marks for everything they have.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 11/11/2024 9:41 AM, Xocyll wrote:
> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:
>
>> On Sat, 09 Nov 2024 23:58:24 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>>
>>> Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 17:50:03 -0000 (UTC), in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>>>> candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>>>> Oh no, now I'm confused!
>>
>>>> (*the Confuse-A-Cat van drives off into the sunset*)
>>
>>> I had to Google that and found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzi3k7K0lFA
>>
>> I did a Captain America. "I understood that reference."
>>
>> Does that mean I get to hang out with the cool kids now? ;-)
>
> Only if you are humming https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSCzDykng4g
>
I'm suddenly VERY happy to not be a cool kid. :D

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 11/11/2024 19:13, Mike S. wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 11:00:25 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
> <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's really no hard and fast rule, although I generally don't
>> disagree with your definitions. But, for instance, the recently
>> released "Dark Forces" described itself as a "Remaster", even though
>> it used an entirely new engine.
>
> Ahh, ok. Then there really is no hard and fast rule then as you say.
> Thank you.
>
>> Also, reboots aren't limited to recreating a game; often, they just
>> take some of the characters and general ideas of the game and
>> represent it in a new way. This might go so far as change the game's
>> genre entirely (for example, "Prince of Persia: Sands of Time")
>>
>> The TL;DR is that the words are used fairly interchangably in the
>> industry and if you try to insist on specific definitions you're going
>> to be incredibly frustrated. Marketing cares not for your definitions
>> ;-)
>
> Point taken. :-P

I tend to think of it as they are just a spectrum of overlapping
'bubbles' with a graphics/QoL enhancement at one end and just keeping
the essence of the game at the other.

Oh, and we forgot about enhanced additions!

On 11/11/2024 22:26, rms wrote:
>>> If anyone wants this I've put the code on the Steam group.
>> Is there a Steam group...?
>
>   https://steamcommunity.com/groups/CSPIGA
>

Even better apparently I'm, like you, some sort of moderator. Kneel
before my power mere mortals!

On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 10:31:42 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>Oh, and we forgot about enhanced additions!

Personally, I'm holding for the Ultimate Platinum Enhanced Game of the
Year Remastered Reboot Edition! It comes with a realistic life-sized*
maquette of the protagonist!

.... although that version doesn't come with the actual game, so I'll
probably have to buy the Gold Edition too. But it will totally be
worth it!

Wait... what were we talking about again?

* if game is played on an 8" screen

JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote at 10:38 this Tuesday (GMT):
> On 11/11/2024 22:26, rms wrote:
>>>> If anyone wants this I've put the code on the Steam group.
>>> Is there a Steam group...?
>>
>>   https://steamcommunity.com/groups/CSPIGA
>>
>
> Even better apparently I'm, like you, some sort of moderator. Kneel
> before my power mere mortals!

Joined it. Dunno if I'll post much.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 11/11/2024 15:51, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> The alternative, of course, is to make the traps so obvious and common
> so the enemies/can't/ avoid them because they're all over the place
> (a tactic used by "Dark Crusaders of Might & Magic") but then the
> ridiculous world design destroys any immersion (who lives in a house
> where every floor is covered in oil and every wall covered with
> spikes?)

I have played Dark Messiah Might and Magic and rather enjoyed it as
although as you say the environment is rather silly, I presume Dark
Crusaders is the same, it's not a game that takes itself seriously.

Are the fight scenes in the film Kingsman realistic, hell no but they
are fun to watch!

On 11/11/2024 15:54, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 11:15:28 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I actually enjoyed BS:3 far more as my expectations, and price point,
>> where much lower. I wouldn't say it was a great game but more than worth
>> the £5 I paid for it.
>
> Bioshock 3 was a generally better experience, even if it did suffer a
> lot from corridor-shooter linearity. (I know it's supposed to be an
> open-world sandbox, but it's really not). There was less emphasis on
> environmental traps, the worlds were more open and the combat more
> frenetic. It largely suffered in world design and aesthetics. The
> first "Bioshock" is a better game when it comes to its story and
> visuals; "Bioshock Ultimate" is just more fun to actually play.
>
> But overall I still think they're both of them fairly average
> shooters, not worth a lot of the hype and praise heaped upon them.
>

I enjoyed 3 but it certainly doesn't get anywhere near my PC Classics
list. It's just a fun romp with a bit of story tacked onto mindless
violence, what's not to like?

On 12/11/2024 15:23, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 10:31:42 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Oh, and we forgot about enhanced additions!
>
> Personally, I'm holding for the Ultimate Platinum Enhanced Game of the
> Year Remastered Reboot Edition! It comes with a realistic life-sized*
> maquette of the protagonist!
>
> ... although that version doesn't come with the actual game, so I'll
> probably have to buy the Gold Edition too. But it will totally be
> worth it!
>
>
>
>
>
> Wait... what were we talking about again?
>
How many beans you need before it changes from some beans to a very
small casserole.

On 11/11/2024 2:40 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 16:54 this Sunday (GMT):
>> On 11/9/2024 7:20 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 00:45 this Sunday (GMT):
> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> There likely is a difference between how the contracts for both work.
>>>>
>>>> Or Nintendo simply has good lawyers at hand to work the kinks out, while
>>>> Valve just doesn't want to bother.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nintendo DEFINITELY has good lawyers.
>>
>> House of Mouse level good?
>
>
> Well, I don't think Nintendo has rewritten any laws, so not yet.

well, they famously put King Kong into the public domain (trying to
defend Donkey Kong)

On 11/13/2024 12:05 PM, JAB wrote:
> On 12/11/2024 15:23, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 10:31:42 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Oh, and we forgot about enhanced additions!
>>
>> Personally, I'm holding for the Ultimate Platinum Enhanced Game of the
>> Year Remastered Reboot Edition! It comes with a realistic life-sized*
>> maquette of the protagonist!
>>
>> ... although that version doesn't come with the actual game, so I'll
>> probably have to buy the Gold Edition too. But it will totally be
>> worth it!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Wait... what were we talking about again?
>>
>  How many beans you need before it changes from some beans to a very
> small casserole.

It depends on exactly how small your dish is.

Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 12:03 this Wednesday (GMT):
> On 11/11/2024 2:40 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 16:54 this Sunday (GMT):
>>> On 11/9/2024 7:20 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 00:45 this Sunday (GMT):
>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>> There likely is a difference between how the contracts for both work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or Nintendo simply has good lawyers at hand to work the kinks out, while
>>>>> Valve just doesn't want to bother.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nintendo DEFINITELY has good lawyers.
>>>
>>> House of Mouse level good?
>>
>>
>> Well, I don't think Nintendo has rewritten any laws, so not yet.
>
> well, they famously put King Kong into the public domain (trying to
> defend Donkey Kong)

Isn't that a good thing?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 10:59:30 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>I have played Dark Messiah Might and Magic and rather enjoyed it as
>although as you say the environment is rather silly, I presume Dark
>Crusaders is the same, it's not a game that takes itself seriously.

Sorry, you are correct. The game title was of course, "Dark Messiah of
Might & Magic".

There was a "Crusaders of Might & Magic" too. I guess the files got
crosslinked in my brain ;-)

To be fair, there were _A LOT_ of Might & Magic games; not including
ports, expansions/DLC and compilations, I count more than 30 unique
games in the franchise. It's perhaps forgivable if I get the names a
bit tangled at times, dontcha think? ;-)

On 11/13/2024 7:30 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 10:59:30 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I have played Dark Messiah Might and Magic and rather enjoyed it as
>> although as you say the environment is rather silly, I presume Dark
>> Crusaders is the same, it's not a game that takes itself seriously.
>
>
> Sorry, you are correct. The game title was of course, "Dark Messiah of
> Might & Magic".
>
> There was a "Crusaders of Might & Magic" too. I guess the files got
> crosslinked in my brain ;-)
>
> To be fair, there were _A LOT_ of Might & Magic games; not including
> ports, expansions/DLC and compilations, I count more than 30 unique
> games in the franchise. It's perhaps forgivable if I get the names a
> bit tangled at times, dontcha think? ;-)
>
No, we don't think. ;)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 13/11/2024 12:03, Kyonshi wrote:
> On 11/13/2024 12:05 PM, JAB wrote:
>> On 12/11/2024 15:23, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 10:31:42 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Oh, and we forgot about enhanced additions!
>>>
>>> Personally, I'm holding for the Ultimate Platinum Enhanced Game of the
>>> Year Remastered Reboot Edition! It comes with a realistic life-sized*
>>> maquette of the protagonist!
>>>
>>> ... although that version doesn't come with the actual game, so I'll
>>> probably have to buy the Gold Edition too. But it will totally be
>>> worth it!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wait... what were we talking about again?
>>>
>>   How many beans you need before it changes from some beans to a very
>> small casserole.
>
> It depends on exactly how small your dish is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4IQjUpTNVU

On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 14:40:04 -0000 (UTC), in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, candycanearter07 wrote:

>Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 12:03 this Wednesday (GMT):
>> On 11/11/2024 2:40 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 16:54 this Sunday (GMT):
>>>> On 11/9/2024 7:20 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 00:45 this Sunday (GMT):
>>> [snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There likely is a difference between how the contracts for both work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or Nintendo simply has good lawyers at hand to work the kinks out, while
>>>>>> Valve just doesn't want to bother.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nintendo DEFINITELY has good lawyers.
>>>>
>>>> House of Mouse level good?
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I don't think Nintendo has rewritten any laws, so not yet.
>>
>> well, they famously put King Kong into the public domain (trying to
>> defend Donkey Kong)
>
>
>Isn't that a good thing?

Only accidentally.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote at 17:40 this Thursday (GMT):
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 14:40:04 -0000 (UTC), in
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>>Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 12:03 this Wednesday (GMT):
>>> On 11/11/2024 2:40 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 16:54 this Sunday (GMT):
>>>>> On 11/9/2024 7:20 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>>> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 00:45 this Sunday (GMT):
>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There likely is a difference between how the contracts for both work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or Nintendo simply has good lawyers at hand to work the kinks out, while
>>>>>>> Valve just doesn't want to bother.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nintendo DEFINITELY has good lawyers.
>>>>>
>>>>> House of Mouse level good?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I don't think Nintendo has rewritten any laws, so not yet.
>>>
>>> well, they famously put King Kong into the public domain (trying to
>>> defend Donkey Kong)
>>
>>
>>Isn't that a good thing?
>
> Only accidentally.

Still a positive.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 11/12/2024 2:20 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
> JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote at 10:38 this Tuesday (GMT):
>> On 11/11/2024 22:26, rms wrote:
>>>>> If anyone wants this I've put the code on the Steam group.
>>>> Is there a Steam group...?
>>>
>>>   https://steamcommunity.com/groups/CSPIGA
>>>
>>
>> Even better apparently I'm, like you, some sort of moderator. Kneel
>> before my power mere mortals!
>
>
> Joined it. Dunno if I'll post much.

No one really posts there, but it's handy for giving out codes without
giving your email.

I tried to get some co-op going on a few games but it never happened.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On 11/14/2024 11:10 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
> Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote at 17:40 this Thursday (GMT):
>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 14:40:04 -0000 (UTC), in
>> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 12:03 this Wednesday (GMT):
>>>> On 11/11/2024 2:40 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 16:54 this Sunday (GMT):
>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 7:20 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>>>> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 00:45 this Sunday (GMT):
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There likely is a difference between how the contracts for both work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or Nintendo simply has good lawyers at hand to work the kinks out, while
>>>>>>>> Valve just doesn't want to bother.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nintendo DEFINITELY has good lawyers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> House of Mouse level good?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I don't think Nintendo has rewritten any laws, so not yet.
>>>>
>>>> well, they famously put King Kong into the public domain (trying to
>>>> defend Donkey Kong)
>>>
>>>
>>> Isn't that a good thing?
>>
>> Only accidentally.
>
>
> Still a positive.

Debatable. Copyright actually is a good thing as long as it is neither
too strong or too weak.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 11:40:14 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 14:40:04 -0000 (UTC), in
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote at 12:03 this Wednesday (GMT):
>>> On 11/11/2024 2:40 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 16:54 this Sunday (GMT):

>>>> Well, I don't think Nintendo has rewritten any laws, so not yet.
>>> well, they famously put King Kong into the public domain (trying to
>>> defend Donkey Kong)

>>Isn't that a good thing?

>Only accidentally.

Technically, it wasn't Nintendo that did that. They merely took
advantage of the fact and gave the public more awareness of its
status.

The fact is, the ownership rights of the character were muddled from
the start. Although the movie was made by RKO Pictures, Merin Cooper
-the creator of the character- claimed he had rights to the IP based
on an agreement not to take a salary while co-directing the film. But
Cooper never did much with the property, while RKO was fairly ruthless
in licensing it. Things got more confused in 1976, when DeLaurentis
licensed the rights from RKO, while Universal objected that _they_ had
exclusive rights to the character due to a verbal agreement with RKO.
And all this happened just as the 1933 copyright was due to expire. It
was finally adjudicated that while the rights originally _had_ laid
with Cooper (and that RKO owed him oodles of money for illegally
exploiting it), a failure to renew the copyright meant that the
character was finally in the public domain.

Following the 1976 decision, the Cooper family had sold the rights to
Universal. Thus, in the 80s, Universal thought themselves on firm
footing when they sued Nintendo over the King Kong/Donkey Kong issue,
claiming trademark (not copyright) infringement. But it was quickly
pointed out by Nintendo's lawyers that the character had been deemed
into public domain, and that the rights were such a scattered mess
anyway that Universal's trademark claim was unsustainable.

The end result is that the CHARACTER of King Kong is in the public
domain. The various MOVIES remain copyright of the individual
publishers. Certain INTERPRETATIONS of the character (for instance,
the axe-wielding kaiju of the recent 'Monster-verse' films... released
by Universal) are also owned by their respective creators. Ownership
of the NAME is a bit murkier; it's probably public-domain but could
get you into trouble.

But if you want to make a new story about a giant ape from some
isolated Pacific island who falls in love with a girl, goes to the big
city, and has adventures therein... well, knock yourself out. It's
open season on big monkeys.

TL;DR: Nintendo didn't get King Kong put into the public domain. They
just took advantage of the fact to defend themselves after Universal
sued them for trademark infringement.

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote at 00:01 this Friday (GMT):
> On 11/12/2024 2:20 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote at 10:38 this Tuesday (GMT):
>>> On 11/11/2024 22:26, rms wrote:
>>>>>> If anyone wants this I've put the code on the Steam group.
>>>>> Is there a Steam group...?
>>>>
>>>>   https://steamcommunity.com/groups/CSPIGA
>>>>
>>>
>>> Even better apparently I'm, like you, some sort of moderator. Kneel
>>> before my power mere mortals!
>>
>>
>> Joined it. Dunno if I'll post much.
>
> No one really posts there, but it's handy for giving out codes without
> giving your email.
>
> I tried to get some co-op going on a few games but it never happened.

Fair, definitely a good idea.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 15/11/2024 00:01, Justisaur wrote:
> On 11/12/2024 2:20 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote at 10:38 this Tuesday (GMT):
>>> On 11/11/2024 22:26, rms wrote:
>>>>>> If anyone wants this I've put the code on the Steam group.
>>>>> Is there a Steam group...?
>>>>
>>>>     https://steamcommunity.com/groups/CSPIGA
>>>>
>>>
>>> Even better apparently I'm, like you, some sort of moderator. Kneel
>>> before my power mere mortals!
>>
>>
>> Joined it. Dunno if I'll post much.
>
> No one really posts there, but it's handy for giving out codes without
> giving your email.
>
> I tried to get some co-op going on a few games but it never happened.
>

I like the idea of co-op gaming more than the reality. My game playing
has definitely changed for more extended sessions to when I feel like it
and even then probably only averaging thirty minutes (tops an hour)
before I want to do something else.

It was something I tried in World of Tanks with platooning but although
I enjoyed it, it didn't fit with my play four or five battles and then
do something else. I kinda felt like I was letting my team mates down.