On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 10/11/2024 01:14, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 20:37:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/11/2024 20:19, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 06:37:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ive had a lot of experience with Glaswegian drunks...This guy was no
>>>>> different. He just wanted someone to pay him the respect of listening
>>>>> to him
>>>>
>>>> Until recently a drunk in Glascow didn't hate whitey and have a
>>>> Saturday night special in his pocket.
>>> Still doesn't as you would know if you had bothered to travel
>>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-
>> of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales
>>
>> Were I to visit Europe it would be Germany, Ireland, and maybe Norway,
>> certainly not Glasgow.
>>
>> https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/all-about/crime
>>
> Both of those sites feature predominately *white* criminals.
>
> And by the way, only Marxists read the Guardian and only total imbeciles
> believe it.
> It has offered its staff free counselling to deal with the shock of a a Trump
> victory...
>
> Once again your insularity has prevented you from understanding how things
> are outside Montana. Which is I admit, a very nice place to live. If a bit
> Bible-ish for my taste

I see no reference in the quoted text to the color of criminals. Why does
that matter?

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:28:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Once again your insularity has prevented you from understanding how
> things are outside Montana. Which is I admit, a very nice place to live.
> If a bit Bible-ish for my taste

My understanding goes a bit beyond Montana.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 11:18:57 +0100, D wrote:

> If I moved there I sure would need a .357 Magnum do defend myself if
> those cats are loose! I'd better practice my quick draw!

I've had several encounters with cats without bloodshed. They have a
profile for prey and I don't fit it. Mountain bikers and joggers fit the
fleeing prey envelope rather well. Small children are vulnerable. The last
fatality in this state was in 1989, a 5 year old riding a tricycle.

Not to anthropomorphize but in my encounters we made eye contact and
eventually went our separate ways. My feeling was the cat was curious
about this thing standing its ground and concluded it was another apex
predator best left alone.

When there are too many around there's a hunting season. Most hunt them
with dogs. It's a balancing act. Reduce the cat population too much and
you wind up knee deep in elk.

I sometimes carry a .357 when I'm in known grizzly territory although it's
too light. The preferred weapon is a pump shotgun loaded with alternate
slug and buckshot rounds. afaik I've only encountered one grizzly and I
retreated with no problem. Many trailheads have signs describing
identifying grizzly versus black bears but many people assume a brown bear
is a grizzly but black bears come in a variety of shades.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:36:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Lucky you to have the pumas.
>
> Round here the deer are out of control and wander in an out of my back
> garden
>
> Every couple of years a licensed marksman comes along and cuts the herds
> down from 100+ to 20 or so.

The cats help but they're outnumbered.

https://www.ktvh.com/news/how-deer-culling-went-in-helena-this-year

One difference is the urban deer in Helena are mule deer, which are more
aggressive than whitetails. People get upset when they or their pets are
attacked. The mule deer here stay in the mountains.

> Bears would be interesting to have. WE used to. And wolves. But we
> killed them all

We have two species of bears. The grizzlies are spreading which concerns
some people. The wolves have been repopulating nicely. They also are
controversial. Funds have been set up to reimburse for their losses. The
interest has waned somewhat but llamas were popular and the wolves found
them tasty. Wolves are indigenous while llamas aren't so I was rooting for
the wolves. I went on a pack trip with a couple of llamas, which didn't
endear them to me. A joke among the horse and mule people is 'How do you
pack a llama? Quarter it, just like an elk."

> Have shit loads of badgers instead. Not the same as USA badger.

Badgers favor eastern Montana with its prairies and endless supply of
prairie dogs. They're rare but we do have wolverines.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:23:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Oh dear. The amateur view of history.

No, the non Brit-centric view.

On 10 Nov 2024 15:20:00 GMT, William wrote:

> They are not nearly as much fun as they used to be?. I hope to be able
> to write through vim with out misspressings before I die. Oh, Oh,
> another twinge,

My problem with vim isn't with vim; it's the odd :w and other artifacts I
leave if forced to use other editors. Lately I've been using VS Code which
has a very nice vim extension.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 09:09:49 +0000, Pancho wrote:

> Don't you get deer everywhere? You get them in the outskirts of London,
> certainly just outside the M25 (the London ring road). They seem wild to
> me. I've never seen them look before crossing the road, and I have
> actually collided with one when driving. I was lucky and managed to
> brake, but I know a lot of people who have seriously damaged their cars

My previous car had custom bodywork done by Bambi Inc. It was a brief
encounter but I had a deer sprawled on the hood at about 60 mph. The deer
left the scene apparently uninjured. The hood (bonnet) still functioned
and I could tie some plastic bits together with nylon ties.

The ones that live in the city are used to vehicles, bicycles, and people
so they may look up as a car goes by before resuming grazing but they
don't do anything stupid. Rural deer are more likely to panic and run
across the road.

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:23:17 +0000
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 09/11/2024 21:12, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 14:10:13 +0100, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 05:55:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> God Bless America!
> []
>> It wasn't a colonial war, it was a European war, just like WWII started as.
>>
>> Again started by Germany's innate sense of superiority.
>>
>> And the EU itself is based in practice on German and French domination
>> of Europe, just not with tanks.
>>
>> And Russia which kinda got a bit left out now wants some of the action
>> as well.
>>
>> All 19th century shit. Putin is living in some alternate reality.
>>
>
> Anyone here want to talk about computers or linux?
>
>

Linux just kicked out all the Russian contributors.

--
Pete

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:39:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> This is totally true and the fact that people think they are cute and
> wont shoot them makes it worse.
>
> Bloody lethal in a crash. Usually a write off at any speed. If you see
> one, stop. It runs across in front of you and the rest all follow
> blindly.
>
> Like bloody socialists.

The state when I grew up had a Conservation Department that begged people
to go out and shoot the damned deer. Every winter the newspaper would run
articles showing hundreds of deer yarded up in deep snow and starving. Do-
gooders would arrange hay to be dropped from helicopters. Next year, more
starving deer.

On 2024-11-10, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> Then there was my '49 Chrysler with the straight 8. My to-be wife didn't
> enjoy becoming the duty driver. it was fine on the road but parallel
> parking it without power steering kept her biceps tuned up.

My first Suburban had power steering and an automatic transmission.
My second had neither. It took a couple of weeks to get used to the
newer one, presumably while my biceps got built up.

They both had a 350 with a Holley Quadrajet carb, though.
Any smartass in a 240Z who thought he could block me from
merging onto the freeway was in for a surprise.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On 2024-11-10, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> Many trailheads have signs describing identifying grizzly
> versus black bears but many people assume a brown bear
> is a grizzly but black bears come in a variety of shades.

Q: How do you distinguish a black bear from a grizzly?
A: Run up behind it and kick it in the ass, then climb a tree.
If it climbs the tree and eats you, it's a black bear.
If it knocks the tree over and eats you, it's a grizzly.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On 10/11/2024 15:33, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> Lucky you to have the pumas.
>>
>> Round here the deer are out of control and wander in an out of my back
>> garden
>>
>> Every couple of years a licensed marksman comes along and cuts the
>> herds down from 100+ to 20 or so.
>>
>> Bears would be interesting to have. WE used to. And wolves. But we
>> killed them all
>>
>> Have shit loads of badgers instead. Not the same as USA badger.
>
> They dig under my fence to get into my garden.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ewxrjk/54059150632
>
> I think I saw an urban muntjac somewhere local a while back too.
>
Your place doesn't look that urban, Richard.
>
I have a huge ancient apple tree that litters the ground with apples
that slowly go rotten and turn to cider.

I found a young badger, completely drunk, one day. I patted him and
raced back to get my camera. But he vanished.

Deer are common in the garden. Muntjak, chinese water deer, fallow and roe.

> (In an attempt head back at least in the direction of technology: the
> trailcam used above is a Ceyomur C65, and I’m pleased with it.)
>
It seems extremely good. Ive been thinking of getting something like that.

--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift

On 10/11/2024 18:02, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 10/11/2024 01:14, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 20:37:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/11/2024 20:19, rbowman wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 06:37:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ive had a lot of experience  with Glaswegian  drunks...This guy
>>>>>> was no
>>>>>> different. He just wanted someone to pay him the respect of listening
>>>>>> to him
>>>>>
>>>>> Until recently a drunk in Glascow didn't hate whitey and have a
>>>>> Saturday night special in his pocket.
>>>> Still doesn't as you would know if you had bothered to travel
>>>
>>> Are you sure?
>>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-
>>> of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales
>>>
>>> Were I to visit Europe it would be Germany, Ireland, and maybe Norway,
>>> certainly not Glasgow.
>>>
>>> https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/all-about/crime
>>>
>> Both of those sites feature predominately *white* criminals.
>>
>> And by the way, only Marxists read the Guardian and only total
>> imbeciles believe it.
>> It has offered its staff free counselling to deal with the shock of a
>> a Trump victory...
>>
>> Once again your insularity has prevented you from understanding how
>> things are outside Montana. Which is I admit, a very nice place to
>> live. If a bit Bible-ish for my taste
>
> I see no reference in the quoted text to the color of criminals. Why
> does that matter?

Look at the pictures.

It only matters because of the mildly racist comment that "Until
recently a drunk in Glascow didn't hate whitey"
Muslims, who do hate whitey, dont drink,

--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 10/11/2024 18:28, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:28:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Once again your insularity has prevented you from understanding how
>> things are outside Montana. Which is I admit, a very nice place to live.
>> If a bit Bible-ish for my taste
>
> My understanding goes a bit beyond Montana.

You dun bin as far as Wyoming! Far out!
--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 21:19:05 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
>
>> It is simply a reflection of the fact that, in almost all populations, a
>> small percentage of people have an innate curiosity that drives them to
>> learn, explore, make something of themselves, and often have an outsize
>> impact on the world as a whole, while a large percentage simply seem to
>> have no curiosity nor desire to do anything beyond the barest minimum
>> necessary to make the next paycheck appear by magic.
>
> I got out of Dodge in my early 20s as did many of my friends and my
> brother. According to the high school class data many didn't.
>
> What surprised me was the number of college educated people in Boston with
> decent jobs that had never ventured outside of the 128 perimeter. Those
> novelty maps that show Boston and NY with LA and San Francisco on the west
> bank of the Hudson are their world view. The 'flyover states' are a
> reality.
>
>
>

Why would you want to leave Boston?

--
Pete

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 11:18:57 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> If I moved there I sure would need a .357 Magnum do defend myself if
>> those cats are loose! I'd better practice my quick draw!
>
> I've had several encounters with cats without bloodshed. They have a
> profile for prey and I don't fit it. Mountain bikers and joggers fit the
> fleeing prey envelope rather well. Small children are vulnerable. The last
> fatality in this state was in 1989, a 5 year old riding a tricycle.
>
> Not to anthropomorphize but in my encounters we made eye contact and
> eventually went our separate ways. My feeling was the cat was curious
> about this thing standing its ground and concluded it was another apex
> predator best left alone.

Wow! The only thing I remember having heard or read is, if meet bear, then
try to appear huge and make some noise. Maybe it works on cats as well?

I guess if you turn and run that might activate the hunting instinct in
cats?

> When there are too many around there's a hunting season. Most hunt them
> with dogs. It's a balancing act. Reduce the cat population too much and
> you wind up knee deep in elk.

Mmmm... nice meat!

> I sometimes carry a .357 when I'm in known grizzly territory although it's
> too light. The preferred weapon is a pump shotgun loaded with alternate
> slug and buckshot rounds. afaik I've only encountered one grizzly and I
> retreated with no problem. Many trailheads have signs describing
> identifying grizzly versus black bears but many people assume a brown bear
> is a grizzly but black bears come in a variety of shades.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 11:20:48 +0100, D wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 21:07:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>>>> You don't have to go to Nairobi to be in an informal war zone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Very much true!
>>> Only as far as Hollywood and downtown LA.
>>
>> Actually, Hollywood and downtown LA are relatively safe. 'LA'
>> encompasses many neighborhoods and you'd better know where you are. I
>> used to ride the Santa Ana bike trail. At the time it only went from
>> the Yorba Regional Park down to Newport Beach.
>>
>> https://www.traillink.com/trail/santa-ana-river-trail/
>>
>> You passed horse stables, the Nixon library on Yorba Lina, the Anaheim
>> Stadium. and eventually made it to one of the wealthiest areas in the
>> US at Newport Beach. You also rode through Santa Ana.
>>
>> https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-santa-ana-ca/
>>
>> No horses, only gang graffiti. I never had a problem but then I wasn't
>> engaging the locals and indulging in pop psychology.
>>
>> That was in the 90s. More recently
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF7hWzqdPDk
>>
>> You want third world squalor? We got it! I think the video and the
>> embarrassment led to closing down the trail for a few months and
>> bulldozing everything into garbage trucks. The people didn't evaporate
>> so they must have moved to some area not so photogenic.
>
> This is the US I like, the US that actually does something about a
> problem and doesn't let it grow for decades like sweden, becoming
> europes rape capital.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-
country

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 12:51:07 +0000, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

> Anyone here want to talk about computers or linux?

The former, yes. Don't use the latter (BSD since 1978)

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:23:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Oh dear. The amateur view of history.
>
> No, the non Brit-centric view.
>

I'll go with the non Brit-centric view. In the spirit of travel and
experience, I think the broader view is the more nuanced one.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On 10 Nov 2024 15:20:00 GMT, William wrote:
>
>> They are not nearly as much fun as they used to be?. I hope to be able
>> to write through vim with out misspressings before I die. Oh, Oh,
>> another twinge,
>
> My problem with vim isn't with vim; it's the odd :w and other artifacts I
> leave if forced to use other editors. Lately I've been using VS Code which
> has a very nice vim extension.
>

I solved that by not using other editors. ;) Jokes aside, I've always been
on the operations side, so vim (or neovim) has always fit my needs
perfectly.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, Peter Flass wrote:

> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:23:17 +0000
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/11/2024 21:12, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 14:10:13 +0100, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 05:55:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> God Bless America!
>> []
>>> It wasn't a colonial war, it was a European war, just like WWII started as.
>>>
>>> Again started by Germany's innate sense of superiority.
>>>
>>> And the EU itself is based in practice on German and French domination
>>> of Europe, just not with tanks.
>>>
>>> And Russia which kinda got a bit left out now wants some of the action
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> All 19th century shit. Putin is living in some alternate reality.
>>>
>>
>> Anyone here want to talk about computers or linux?
>>
>>
>
> Linux just kicked out all the Russian contributors.

Have they also kicked out all chinese, iranians, brazilians and
south-africans? They seem to have nothing against interacting, helping and
doing business with russians, so by extension, should be kicked out as
well.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:39:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> This is totally true and the fact that people think they are cute and
>> wont shoot them makes it worse.
>>
>> Bloody lethal in a crash. Usually a write off at any speed. If you see
>> one, stop. It runs across in front of you and the rest all follow
>> blindly.
>>
>> Like bloody socialists.
>
> The state when I grew up had a Conservation Department that begged people
> to go out and shoot the damned deer. Every winter the newspaper would run
> articles showing hundreds of deer yarded up in deep snow and starving. Do-
> gooders would arrange hay to be dropped from helicopters. Next year, more
> starving deer.

Classic democrat/socialist. Only look at the symptom, while never solving
the underlying cause.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 10/11/2024 18:02, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/11/2024 01:14, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 20:37:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/11/2024 20:19, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 06:37:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ive had a lot of experience  with Glaswegian  drunks...This guy was no
>>>>>>> different. He just wanted someone to pay him the respect of listening
>>>>>>> to him
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Until recently a drunk in Glascow didn't hate whitey and have a
>>>>>> Saturday night special in his pocket.
>>>>> Still doesn't as you would know if you had bothered to travel
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/01/gun-rising-in-two-thirds-
>>>> of-police-force-areas-in-england-and-wales
>>>>
>>>> Were I to visit Europe it would be Germany, Ireland, and maybe Norway,
>>>> certainly not Glasgow.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/all-about/crime
>>>>
>>> Both of those sites feature predominately *white* criminals.
>>>
>>> And by the way, only Marxists read the Guardian and only total imbeciles
>>> believe it.
>>> It has offered its staff free counselling to deal with the shock of a a
>>> Trump victory...
>>>
>>> Once again your insularity has prevented you from understanding how things
>>> are outside Montana. Which is I admit, a very nice place to live. If a bit
>>> Bible-ish for my taste
>>
>> I see no reference in the quoted text to the color of criminals. Why does
>> that matter?
>
> Look at the pictures.
>
> It only matters because of the mildly racist comment that "Until recently a
> drunk in Glascow didn't hate whitey"
> Muslims, who do hate whitey, dont drink,

Logically speaking, that sentence does still not imply color. It could be
a whitey hating a whitey. Also, it does not have to be a muslim, or it
could be a mix to make matter more complicated.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 10/11/2024 18:28, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 10:28:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Once again your insularity has prevented you from understanding how
>>> things are outside Montana. Which is I admit, a very nice place to live.
>>> If a bit Bible-ish for my taste
>>
>> My understanding goes a bit beyond Montana.
>
> You dun bin as far as Wyoming! Far out!
>

And you sound like an asshole! Far out!

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
> On 10/11/2024 15:33, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>> Have shit loads of badgers instead. Not the same as USA badger.
>> They dig under my fence to get into my garden.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ewxrjk/54059150632
>> I think I saw an urban muntjac somewhere local a while back too.
>
> Your place doesn't look that urban, Richard.

20-30min walk to the nearest countryside.

> I have a huge ancient apple tree that litters the ground with apples
> that slowly go rotten and turn to cider.
>
> I found a young badger, completely drunk, one day. I patted him and
> raced back to get my camera. But he vanished.
>
> Deer are common in the garden. Muntjak, chinese water deer, fallow and
> roe.
>
>> (In an attempt head back at least in the direction of technology: the
>> trailcam used above is a Ceyomur C65, and I’m pleased with it.)
>
> It seems extremely good. Ive been thinking of getting something like
> that.

If you’re trying to photograph drunk badgers then you definitely want
something motion-activated l-)

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/