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comp / comp.os.linux.advocacy / Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"

SubjectAuthor
* GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Heil Lunduke! Mein Forther!
+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"QuantumKurator
|`* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Robot Polisher
| `* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|  `* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Woozy Song
|   `- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
||`* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|| `- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
||+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Bobbie Sellers
||||+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Joel
|||||`* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Bobbie Sellers
||||| `- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Joel
||||+- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
||||+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||||`- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
||||`* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Lawrence D'Oliveiro
|||| `- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"RonB
|||`* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
||| +* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Joel
||| |`* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
||| | `* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Anton Ray Eaks
||| |  `- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
||| `* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  +* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Joel
|||  |+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Bobbie Sellers
|||  ||`* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Joel
|||  || `* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Scott Alfter
|||  ||  `* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Joel
|||  ||   `* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Scott Alfter
|||  ||    +* Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Bobbie Sellers
|||  ||    |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"chrisv
|||  ||    ||+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"%
|||  ||    |||`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"chrisv
|||  ||    ||| ||`- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| | `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |   `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |    `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |     `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |      `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |       `- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| | +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Bobbie Sellers
|||  ||    ||| | |+- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| | |`- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Charlie Gibbs
|||  ||    ||| | `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Chris Ahlstrom
|||  ||    ||| |  |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  ||+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Chris Ahlstrom
|||  ||    ||| |  |||+- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  |||`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Bobbie Sellers
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"chrisv
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| ||+- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| ||`- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| |`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Bobbie Sellers
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | ||`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | ||  `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | ||   `- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | ||`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || ||+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || |||`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || ||| `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || |||  `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || |||   `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || |||    `- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || ||`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |+- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |+- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Bobbie Sellers
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || | `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |  +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |  |`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |  | `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |  |  `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |  |   `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |  |    `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |  |     `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |  |      `- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |  `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"chrisv
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |   +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |   |`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |   | `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |   |  `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |   |   +* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |   |   |`- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |   |   `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || |   `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || || `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"chrisv
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || |`- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | || `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"chrisv
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | |`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"The Natural Philosopher
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | +- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Jim Jackson
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| | `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Sebastian
|||  ||    ||| |  ||| `* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  ||`- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| |  |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"chrisv
|||  ||    ||| |  |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    ||| |  |`* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Bobbie Sellers
|||  ||    ||| |  `- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||| `- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Peter Flass
|||  ||    ||+- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  ||    ||`- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Joel
|||  ||    |+- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Ahem A Rivet's Shot
|||  ||    |+* Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    |`- Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Scott Alfter
|||  ||    +- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  ||    `- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Joel
|||  |+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"CrudeSausage
|||  |`* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
|||  `- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"D
||`- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"DFS
|`* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"Lawrence D'Oliveiro
+* Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"186282@ud0s4.net
`- Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"John Ames

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Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: Ahem A Rivet's
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 08:34 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 09:34:58 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 15:38:55 -0700
Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> On 8/3/24 06:43, chrisv wrote:
> > CrudeSausage wrote:
> >
> >> I remember reading one article where a guy's Tesla spontaneously
> >> combusted and when asked, he still said "I'd buy another one.
> >
> > It must not have caught fire in his garage and burned his house down.
> >
>
> Well the accidents I read about with Tesla's catching fire
> mostly happen on the highway for some reason. Other batteries as

Lithium battery fires are spectacular and *very* hard to put out
but there are enough battery cars on the road for solid statistics,
they're a good deal less likely to catch fire than petrol (gasoline) cars.

No I don't have a cite handy - google it!

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: Ahem A Rivet's
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 08:30 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 09:30:13 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 15:30:28 -0700
Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> Oh sounds like sweet setup but not for the apartment-dwelling urban
> resident. Some of the building in San Francisco were not built with
> roofs capable of solar panel support but some are flaunting solar
> panels and gardens.

A common trend in Europe for apartments is to hang some panels
(usually two or four) over the balcony attached to a grid-tie microinverter
that simply plugs in. There are any number of outfits selling balcony solar
kits the cheap ones hang the panels vertically the more expensive have
angled sluminium brackets. Either way it's a dead easy DIY job.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

Subject: Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: Ahem A Rivet's
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 08:39 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 09:39:09 +0100
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On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 00:14:54 -0700
Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> I have been using the KDE Desktop environment since
> I started using Linux on a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 GB laptop in the
> 2006 Mandriva. It is versatile enough to provide any
> interface the user has previously used.

I think not - there's no wasy it can imitate my preferred flwm with
it's side mounted title bars, independent X/Y maximise buttons, unlimited
desktops and idiosyncratic menu system. It can't match the MacOS GUI's
approach to multiple monitors and virtual desktops either.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 09:38 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:38:40 +0200
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 03/08/2024 11:33, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>>>> Again its trite and misses the actual point.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are hung up on the classic idealism/realism debate. Things moved on
>>>>> with Kant.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is neither the scientists or the woke crowd moved in with
>>>>> him.
>>>>
>>>> No. You are the one stuck in the idealist camp. Do note that a vast
>>>> majority of philosophy ph.d. support the fact that an external world
>>>> exist and that science is the best way to obtain knowledge about it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, the support the hypothesis.
>>> Again you innate stupidity has prevented you from grasping the fine
>>> distinction between and ad hoc theory, and fact, and between 'it works'
>>> and 'its true'
>>
>> No, actually it is your innate retardedness that prevents you from
>> grasping that we live in a material world. You are stuck in the old
>> idealism from the 18th century. Please update yourself, and I'll gladly
>> meet you in the real world.
>>
>
> You may live in a material world. I just live in whatever it is I live in. I
> dont have a strong beliefe about its nature.

Ah, you're an agnostic. That makes more sense. Yes, I live in a material
world. No, it is not based on belief, it is based on experience and
empiricism. Yes, I have updated my world view when we went from atoms,
to quarks, that does not mean we do not live in the real world, but in
fact, is another excelletn proof.

>>>> I will not stop this conversation, since it is meaningless to talk about
>>>> this with you.
>>>>
>>>> The paper if you are interested is What Do Philosophers Believe? by David
>>>> Bourget and David J. Chalmers.
>>>
>>> The problem is that you are just stuck in the materialists camp and are in
>>> denial that it might not be the be all and end all of everything
>>
>> Nope. The material is all there is, and you cannot provide proof of
>> anything else, or you would have gotten the nobel prize.
>>
> There you go again! Dogma! An statement of faith. You cannot know that.

Nope. I am open to proof. You have not disproven the material world, nor
have you proposed another solution and proven it. I have provided G.E.
Moores proof, I also (although it is not proof, but an indication)
provided a paper that analyzed the beliefs of philosophy ph.d. and
professors, and the majority hold my view.

In Morres excellent essay "A Defence of Common Sense", he argued against idealism and
scepticism toward the external world, on the grounds that they could not
give reasons to accept that their metaphysical premises were more
plausible than the reasons we have for accepting the common sense claims
about our knowledge of the world, which sceptics and idealists must
deny.

>> I therefore conclude that you have fallen into the solipsist trap, and I
>> will not further talk philosophy with you, since you're argument is on
>> the level of a child.
>>
> You have fallen into the,materialist trap and its an article of unhsakeable
> faith.

Nope, see above.

> You clearly do not know what solipsism is, and nothing I have said supports
> thge veiw that I 'beleive' it to be true.

I no longer believe you are a solipsist, although you did sound like
one. Based on your previous message, I now categorize you as agnostic.

>> You are an engineer I think, but I have studied philosophy at university
>> level, and it does show that you are an engineer and not a philosopher.
>>
>>> Philosophers - real philosophers - don't do 'believe'
>>
>> Exactly. Welcome to the real, material world.
>
> The problem with neatly all philsophers who have studied it, at school,
> rather than as a private investigation, is that they all want to arrived at
> definite conclusions. And very very few of them actually understand the
> subject at all.

I disagree. Based on my experience with hobby philosophers, usually they
are stuck in the past regurgitating the same old puzzles, being
completely unaware of the discussion of modern philosophers. It
therefore becomes very tedious to take them through X hundred years or
thousand years of history of philosophy to show them that "no" they were
not clever having discovered what no one else did, but in fact what they
"discovered" has already been covered and discussed by 100s of people it
not more.

> Only the best come to understand there is no truth to be found, and that
> metaphysics is ultmately the study of the belief systems that people adghere
> to - like the belief that the world is material and that's all there is.

There is no metaphysics. There is science, hypothesis, proof and
disproof. I have showed you proof of the external, material world, and
you do not accept it. I can do nothing more. I can only find comfort in
the fact that the majority do accept the proofs, and we continue our
lives in the real world, not bothering with metaphysics which is more or
less dead. Absent grounding in the material world, it will jsut lead to
idle speculation and in some sad cases, it can even grow into religion
such as when quantum physics theories such as the multiple worlds
interpretation starts to take on religious overtones and notes.

>> You are retarded, and you will be blocked at the next message talking
>> about this subject. It is sad, because you do seem to have quite well
>> reasoned views, but I do understand at the same time, that I have touch
>> your religion, and that makes you revolting and defensive and closed
>> minded.
>
> I have no religion. You are projecting your closed mind in which there is no
> space for what I really am or think.
> To you there are only Realists, who have access to the Truth, and solipsists,
> who are deluded.

No... you made your point. You are agnostic, perhaps some form of
agnostic moinism? Maybe even that is too much of a position.

> You say you have studied philosophy, and yet you have apparently no knowledge
> of say Kant, or Schopenhauer or even Karl Popper. Or Hilary Putnam.

I have read Kant, Schopenhauer and Putnam but I disagree with them.
Based on this calm message from you and the fact that you (and I) on
longer keep calling each other retards, I have now decided that I enjoy
your posts and I will not block you. ;)

I will accept that we are of different opinions and that you have a very
good engineering training, but that we have not convinced each other.
Neither of us is alone in his view.

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 09:41 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:41:01 +0200
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 03/08/2024 11:56, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 11:16:55 +0100
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Can you DO Sums?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> Can you calculate how much 'battery' is needed, and how much actually
>>
>> Yes done that - with a generous overhead.
>>
>>> exists in the real world?
>>
>> There's plenty of iron and chlorine easily available everywhere. If
>> we wanted to build enough tanks we could hold a year's supply of
>> electricity
>> for the planet without impacting the availability of raw materials - but we
>> only need about ten days (that's still about a competition sized swimming
>> pool of tanks per 100k poeople - that's the answer I got when I did the
>> sums). I'm not so sure about Vanadium but it's not in short supply. Now if
>> we had to depend on Lithium for storage we'd be in trouble.
>>
>>> Can you calculate how many Hiroshima sized nuclear explosions the
>>> energy in the battery would need to be to keep just a small country
>>> going overnight?
>>
>> The Battery ??? You call yourself an engineer ? Reminds me of the
>> time when people thought there would be *a* computer. District scale (and
>> downwards) batteries make a lot more sense.
>>
>
> So no mathematical refutation, just an ad hominem attack?
>
>> There are already a *lot* of batteries distributed around the
>> world's power grids and there will be more as fast as they can be built
>> because they make money for their owners. On top of all the grid scale
>> batteries many homes now have some battery storage (usually only about a
>> day's worth but larger flow batteries are appearing) which lets them buy
>> cheap night rate electricity and use it in the day time or ignore an outage
>> of a few hours. Some EVs and chargers support V2L and can power the house
>> from the car.
>>
>
> Yes. I calculated we have enough energy storage to keep the worlds grid up
> for nearly three minutes
>
> You havent done the sums. You use words like 'a lot' . Yiu even think an
> 'outage pf a few gpurs is acceptable'
> Try telling that to a patient on a life support machine.
>
>
>> It all adds up - but we do need to build a *lot* of batteries
>> (swimming pool per 100k with current commercial offerings) before we can
>> depend on intermittent sources alone, rather fewer batteries if we bring
>> some nuclear into the mix but even with 100% nuclear we need enough
>> batteries to handle the fast peaks and troughs.
>>
>
> Oh dear. We need to build 'a lot' of batteries.
> Or nuclear power stations.
> Oh Nuclear power stations are *cheaper* than renewables plus batteries.,
> Whoda thunk it?
>
> Not you, apparently.
>
> Your post contains not one quantity. It is full of *qualitative* statements.
>
> "Yes done that - with a generous overhead." I know you havent. Because I
> *have* That's simply bullshit.
>
> Never confuse carefully crafted bullshit with carefully calculated
> engineering solutions.
>

Another interesting question is... _if_ as climate hysterics love to
say, it is so easy to just store all the worlds electricity needs from
solar and wind, in a few batteries, why haven't we done so?

Surely we would no longer bother with nuclear, but just throw a few
batteries here and there and the problem is solved.

Or could it be that it is actually financially and physically impossible
with current technology?

Or is it that climate rationalists like the Philosopher and myself are
somehow engaged in a conspiracy to keep this technology off the market?

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 09:46 UTC
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Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:46:04 +0200
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:

> On 2024-08-03 6:28 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> You mean cars that run on batteries whose production leaves a massive
>>> carbon footprint
>>> <https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/article/22026518/lithium-batteries-dirty-secret-manufacturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon-footprint>,
>>> which are only recycled at a rate of 1%
>>> <https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/04/lithium-costs-a-lot-of-money-so-why-arent-we-recycling-lithium-batteries/>,
>>> which spontaneous combust "rarely"
>>> <https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lithium-ion-battery-fires-electric-cars-bikes-scooters-firefighters/>
>>> and which are 79% less reliable than gas cars
>>> <https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/2023/11/electric-vehicles-are-improving-but-charging-and-battery-issues-persist-in-consumer-reports-2023-annual-auto-reliability-survey/?msockid=287d4f79ae8b60c3236c5bb1afb0613d>.
>>>
>>> Once again, you are a ridiculous cretin.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry Bobby, I have analyzed the thread and it does in fact seem like
>> you are a ridiculous cretin. CrudeSausage is the clear winner here.
>
> Truth is the clear winner, not me.

Can't you let a man troll in peace? ;)

> When I was buying my first car in 2004 (late bloomer, I had a train station
> nearby that always brought me straight to university and work), I actually
> wanted a Prius. I had no interest in paying for gas because, at the time, I

Last time I did the calculation, electric didn't even come close to the
economy of a gasoline car. Hyrbid was much closer.

I think today (many years later) the I could probably make a financial
case for a hybrid over gasoline, but would have to run the excel
spreadsheet again if I can find it.

> didn't want to enrich Arabs. That's when I started doing a lot of research on
> hybrid and electric cars and started realizing the pitfalls of having one.
>
> A lot of people love their electric cars, but a lot of people love their
> unreliable Jeeps too. I remember reading one article where a guy's Tesla

It's marketing and virtue signalling. I find it hilarious when I debate
climate hysterics that they have an iphone worth 1000 USD and I have a
button phone worth 50 USD. In addition, I keep mine until it breaks, while
they somehow find the money to buy a new smart phone every 2-3 years.

Isn't consumption supposed to damage the planet? ;)

Marketing and virtue signalling. Creating a need where there is none.

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 09:50 UTC
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From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:50:20 +0200
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:

> On 2024-08-03 6:36 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-08-02 1:50 p.m., Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 12:57:36 -0400
>>>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Power lines aren't the problem, you ridiculous cretin. Power
>>>>> _production_ is the problem. There is no shortage of videos of electric
>>>>> cars owners lined up to the few charging stations that work because not
>>>>> only is there not enough electricity being produced there (because we
>>>>> had to close coal factories after all), the stations themselves cease to
>>>>> work and nobody is ever around to fix them.
>>>>
>>>>     I'm trying to keep out of this but Oh boy that is priceless
>>>> garbage! Most EV owners charge at home overnight taking advantage of the
>>>> times when the grid is underutiliosed and electricity is cheap.
>>>
>>> And what do you do when you're on a road trip, pray tell? Do you drive as
>>> many kilometres you can, come back home to charge, drive the same
>>> kilometres and come back home to charge? Or do you use a charging station?
>>>
>>
>> Let's also add that it is very entitled to assume that everyone just have a
>> house so they can charge overnight. Many people in the world live in
>> apartments, which makes this impossible.
>
> Great point. The time when housing was still affordable has passed. Here in
> Quebec, a person coming out university and landing a job with a starter
> salary might have been able to afford a house in some distant suburb a few
> years ago, but even those distant homes now have unreasonable prices. It
> wouldn't be a problem if our government wasn't trying to convince us that
> there is a labour shortage (there isn't) and that we need a ton of immigrants
> (legal or illegal) to solve it. Instead, we have lots of useless people
> coming in who need to live somewhere, the government expects them to help
> build homes but they are wholly incapable of even hitting a nail into a plank
> of wood. Even if they were capable of doing something other than sticking
> their hand out for money, stabbing or raping people, the construction
> companies which would have been willing to build these homes aren't willing
> to do it with the restrictive costs of materials today. If they build, it
> will be homes for the rich where they can make a profit, but the government
> needs homes for the wretched where there is no money to be made. The result
> is that more parasites come in looking for a handout, they get money from the
> taxpayer merely for existing, and they band together with other cockroaches
> to buy whatever shithole they can in whatever distant municipality that will
> have them. They'll put twenty families into a small home if they have to as
> long as they can stay and prevent a _working_ couple from getting that modest
> home.
>

Fear not! Let yourselves be inspired by swedens unregulated and
unrestricted immigration! ;) This created many new millionaires among the
socialist party, because the government would pay for the immigrants to
live somewhere, so crafty socialists started immigration housing companies
extracting millions and millions of dollars from the government for
something which should not have happened in the first place.

But this is very common in sweden.

When they privatized schools (which was a wise decision) over night,
plenty of socialist politicians popped up in school company boards getting
nice extra salaries on top of their party salaries, and on top of the
parliament salary (which is corruption and should have landed them in
prison).

When it comes to the housing situation in Stockholm, a new graduate from
univeristy would not be able to afford a small 1 room apartment á 25 m^2
in the city center without parents helping out with the cash needed and
with the security for loans.

I think, if you work hard, that it should be possible to save for a
1 room apartment in about 4-5 years or so if you don't live too freely.

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 09:51 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:51:46 +0200
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:

> On 2024-08-03 6:40 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/08/2024 08:11, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 17:49:30 -0400
>>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-08-02 1:50 p.m., Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 12:57:36 -0400
>>>>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Power lines aren't the problem, you ridiculous cretin. Power
>>>>>> _production_ is the problem. There is no shortage of videos of electric
>>>>>> cars owners lined up to the few charging stations that work because not
>>>>>> only is there not enough electricity being produced there (because we
>>>>>> had to close coal factories after all), the stations themselves cease
>>>>>> to work and nobody is ever around to fix them.
>>>>>
>>>>>     I'm trying to keep out of this but Oh boy that is priceless
>>>>> garbage! Most EV owners charge at home overnight taking advantage of the
>>>>> times when the grid is underutilised and electricity is cheap.
>>>>
>>>> And what do you do when you're on a road trip, pray tell? Do you drive
>>>
>>>     I don't go on road trips, that's a peculiarly American thing. The
>>> longest journey I make (rarely) is about 350km of driving, most current
>>> EVs
>>> can easily do that on a charge. I wouldn't want to drive more than that
>>> in a day and then only for one day but if I was going to I'd be planning
>>> rest stops at places with chargers thus recharging self and car at the
>>> same
>>> time.
>>>
>>>> as many kilometres you can, come back home to charge, drive the same
>>>> kilometres and come back home to charge? Or do you use a charging
>>>> station?
>>>
>>>     Obviously when away from home it is usually necessary to depend
>>> on the charging network (unless you're staying somewhere with a charger or
>>> can use a "granny cable") but "charging station" not so much. I see
>>> chargers in supermarket, shopping centre, hotel and municipal car parks as
>>> well as motorway service stations. I rarely see all of the chargers in use
>>> anywhere.
>>>
>>>     The thing is that long journets are the exception not the norm,
>>> most of the time most cars travel less than 100 miles per day which means
>>> that overnight charging easily keeps them full and even quite small
>>> batteries suffice. A great many people were happy with the original Nissan
>>> Leaf with its 24kWh battery and 120km range (on a good day) - with an EV
>>> that limited I'd hire a car for long journeys and still come out way ahead
>>> on driving costs - 2c/km instead of 10c/km in fuel costs and much cheaper
>>> services (there's usually nothing to do but check everything in an EV
>>> service).
>>>
>>>     EVs have only two serious downsides - they're expensive to buy and
>>> they depreciate quickly at first because the new models are always much
>>> better every year. These are good reasons not to buy a *new* EV, second
>>> hand ones are getting interesting.
>>>
>> Evs have no upsides at all. Not really.
>> Even fuel cost will be forced to rise on account of them not paying fuel
>> duty
>>
>> The answer is in the sales figures of tthe major EV manufacturers. People
>> are stinging away on droves.
>
> The local news just announced that our rates are going to increase 3% every
> year to make up for demand. The 3% seems low until you realize that is the
> maximum legal amount they can charge since our production is owned by the
> state. If they could raise prices by 10 or 20%, they would.
>
> It's just a matter of time before charging your EV will cost more than
> gassing your car. To hippies, this won't matter because they will still be
> "saving the planet" even though they never consider where that battery goes
> after it is depleted (it's never recycled), where the CAR goes after it is
> obsolete (its parts are never recycled because doing so is lethal), and how
> much they polluted the environment simply building the car in the first
> place.
>
>

Add to that the fact that the whole in the public budget, when people are
no longer getting taxed by the gas pump, is going to shift to EV charging.

I think the gasoline tax in sweden is 50%. I would expect this to shift
over to electricity once enough people switch, which will hopefully only
happen in 20-30 years or so.

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 09:53 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:53:46 +0200
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 03/08/2024 12:43, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 11:32:56 +0100
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> The reason we havent got 'batteries' is because although eco-hippies can
>>> dream about them its all cat belling. We dont know how to build grid
>>> scale energy storage
>>
>> Building grid scale storage is a fast growing business - there are
>> three distinct types of batteries being sold and installed as fast as they
>> can be made. Big lithium batteries - mostly used for short term storage aka
>> grid stabilisation but they also make their owners good money working the
>> spot energy market. Iron and Vanadium redux flow batteries - for longer
>> term energy storage - typical small installation is four 40 foot
>> containers, large installations are usually measured in acres.
>>
>> This has only been going on for a decade or so.
>>
> And has not made any difference to anything. Only the grid stabilisers work
>
> Stop hand waving and come up with an authoritative source as to how much
> electrical storage the iron and vanadium *redox* (not redux) batteries
> have, and how much is needed for one hour of total grid support in any
> country. In my country _240GWh_ is a minimum for a dark cold windless winter
> night.
>
> And then sell you shares in those companys
>
> "Rongke Power deployed the largest VRFB system to date, a 100 MW / 400 MWh
> system in Dalian, China. There are plans to increase the capacity of this
> plant to 800 MWh.
(many examples cut)
> All pissing in the wind. They are shouting about MWh installations when we
> need GWh
>
> Now bugger off and learn to Do Sums

I have to say, I only see figured and specific examples from the climate
rationalists in this debate. So far I have seen nothing from the climate
hysterics.

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 10:04 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 12:04:09 +0200
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:

> On 2024-08-03 11:45 a.m., chrisv wrote:
>> CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>>> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
>>>> *idiots*.
>>>
>>> Every one of us has had a moment where we woke up late AND happen to be
>>> low on gas to get to work. In such a situation, stopping at a gas
>>> station for a five-minute fill-up to then make it to work is still a
>>> reality; imagine doing that with an electric car after you find out that
>>> you're low and that there was a power outage overnight.
>>
>> And what happens if, say, a hurricane is approching, and they advise
>> people to evacuate the city?
>>
>> All the the public chargers would get immedately overwhelmed, leaving
>> *everyone* stranded.
>
> And the people lining up to charge at those stations would create pockets of
> traffic which would block those whose cars are charged from getting anywhere.
>
> What most people don't seem to realize is that becoming the owner of an
> electric vehicle is no different than becoming a welfare recipient. The same
> way you rely on the government to give you taxpayer money every month to pay
> your bills, you rely on the government to produce the electricity that allows
> you to move from place to place. With a gas-powered car, I can buy from Esso,
> Shell, Petro-Canada, Ultramar or some tiny family gas station to fuel up my
> car. If I have a diesel vehicle and there is some sort of oil crisis, I can
> produce fuel from vegetable oil or even a mix of alcohol to get around. Other
> than connecting to a charger which requires electricity that is produced by
> the state, what choice do I have?
>

This is an interesting question from a survivalist point of view. Is it
possible to hook up your EV to solar panels? Given the right equipment I'd
say yes. That still leaves the problem of what to do during winter in the
northern hemisphere, so I imagine that wind or your own built hydro might
be necessary there.

But...

Those solutions are all based on components which you cannot manufacture
yourself.

Now... let's look at the other side, producing fuel from vegetable oil or
mix of alcohol. What would be needed in terms of raw materials and in
terms of technology to make that happen?

Subject: Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 10:07 UTC
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From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 12:07:55 +0200
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> I'm beginning to agree with 'D' ... that Linux has become
> too much of a 'business', that The Vision has been lost.
> Soon the Foundation will find a way to just sell it to M$
> and that's that.

I would imagine a first step is to limit participation based on
ideological grouns. I could imagine license requirements, more rules
etc, and attempts to bend the foundation to the will of one or two
bigger manufacturers at the expense of the rest.

I think everyone here also remembers disasters such as the linux
foundations goals during corona, as another example of it going to
pieces.

> The BSDs may be the last refuge - I think they're mostly
> tended by more 'academic' cultured people.
>
> And if any young gurus have envisioned some new OS with
> much of the Linux goodness/solidity/simplicity - now's the
> time to really get into writing it.

I often wonder if a new genius will emerge for an OS reboot? Was Linus a
one time thing, or would it be possible for it to happen again?

Lacking that, I think perhaps that the people who do not like the
direction of linux might rally behind one of the BSDs. The problem there
is the HW support, but that could in theory be improved with more money
and more funded developers.

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: CrudeSausage
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: usenet-news.net
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 10:58 UTC
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Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
References: <v7s9sq$15lt7$1@paganini.bofh.team>
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On 2024-08-03 6:07 p.m., Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 8/3/24 04:54, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 07:19:43 -0400
>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>
>>> Hippies tend to forget that lithium batteries are not only in EVs but
>>
>>     I haven't seen a hippy in decades.
>
>     Really? Where do you live?  Of course in San Francisco we see few
> survivors of the 60s and 70s but around the nation there are people
> who emigrated for lower rent and more chances to make money.  One large
> group with quasi-religious overtones went to the South-East and I think
> they went under the title of the Farm.

If you're from San Francisco, I suddenly have a great explanation for
your idiocy.

>>> laptops and cell phones as well. How long does the battery in your
>>> laptop last before you need to replace it if you charge it all the way
>>> to 100%? What about your cell phone? If they offer you a long warranty
>
>     As Hippy approximation I never forget that batteries are all over
> the place like it or not.

They are. However, lithium is not. It is a finite resource. There is not
enough lithium in the world to ensure that everyone who needs a car gets
one if EVs are the only option. That's why you're better off sticking to
oil and, when the costs become prohibitive, push the producers to
consider synthetics that _progressively_ transition away from the
traditional product to something cleaner. This way, you would hold onto
the existing network of gas stations, keep the costs of owning a car
from becoming prohibitive, maintain the network of garages and limit the
need for re-training of mechanics. What you are the other brain-damaged
hippies are proposing is to radically change the car industry to
something which doesn't actually lower the carbon footprint while making
the costs of owning a car much more prohibitive for regular people.

Additionally, gas-powered cars, once they are too old to be reliable for
regular people, can still be purchased by poor individuals as long as
they are willing to invest in their maintenance. It's not unusual to see
ten or twenty-year-old gas-powered cars on the road. Meanwhile, your
electric car, once it's ten, becomes completely useless because nobody
will be willing to pay the $10,000 or more to replace the battery in
addition to what it costs just to buy the used car. Your battery
solution is not only not lowering the initial carbon footprint since
producing the batteries causes enormous pollution, but the car itself is
not re-used and won't be recycled. Therefore, you hippy idiots are
creating lots of car graveyards like this one:
<https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/>

> My digital thermometer had to have its
> AAA set replace recently.  My battery opparated sphigomomanometer needs
> it AA replaced but I have lost the Knack of getting them in.
> On my laptop Dell 7450 the original battery was damaged and I bought two
> replacements one of which worked. So I do not forget ever about
> batteries and used to have my 12 volt charger for my late model Motorcycle.

Who gives a shit?

>>     Vehicle batteries and laptop/cellphone batteries are made to
>> different standards - specifically vehicle batteries are optimised for
>> fast
>> charging. They still last a lot longer if they don't get too many fast
>> charges.
>>
>>     Experience with the oldest EVs around is that the batteries last
>> longer than was originally expected and the batteries don't die they just
>> take steadily less charge until they don't hold enough to be useful.
>>
>>     All that being said for all practical purposes an EV *is* the
>> battery and when it dies the EV is scrap. The current crop of 400-500km
>> range EVs can take a lot of battery degredation before they reach the
>> level
>> of an original Leaf (which sold very well).
>
>     Batteries are expensive but are in most cases replaceable.

According to Bing, replacing a battery in a used EV car will cost
between $5,000 to $20,000. Does that price seem appropriate for a used
car which would itself be worth about $3k? Additionally, each
manufacturer makes batteries in a radically different way. You can't
even be sure that the battery you'll need will be available a decade
after the initial purchase of the car. The absolute _least_
manufacturers can do is make a standard form for the battery.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: CrudeSausage
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: usenet-news.net
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:08 UTC
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Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
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On 2024-08-03 6:09 p.m., Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 8/3/24 06:36, chrisv wrote:
>> CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> The problem is that other people make
>>> such plans too. Not only do you have to wait for them to be done with
>>> their 30-minute charge to 80%, you have to wait after the person who is
>>> waiting after them.
>>
>> 80% if they are following "charger etiquette".  There will be those
>> who want to stay on an extra hour so that they can get "topped up".
>> "Charge rage" has already been coined to describe the conflicts that
>> occur.
>>
>> I cannot imagine having to wait in a queue for *hours* to get a
>> charge.  Which *will* happen, and a *lot*.  Anyone who doesn't think
>> so is *stupid*.
>>
>>> I wonder how this is more convenient than stopping
>>> at _any_ gas station and filling up in the time it takes for your wife
>>> to get in the station and get everyone a chocolate bar.
>>
>> And the gas station actually works reliably.  It's not broken down, or
>> locked-up, or the hose cut off for its copper.
>>
>> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
>> *idiots*.
>>
>
>     Not in urban or suburbam California are you?  Soon needs to be
> defined as by a relatively early date no more gasoline burners will
> be sold in the State.

Yeah, I can't imagine the transition to electric vehicles only being a
disaster for California:
<https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-blackouts-power-grid/story?id=89460998>

I can only imagine why companies like Chevron are fleeing the state
<https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/companies/chevron-to-leave-california-for-texas-as-regulations-mount-in-golden-state/ar-BB1r5DLC?ocid=BingNewsSerp>
and why the people don't want to be there anymore
<https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-08/why-californians-are-fleeing-this-once-golden-state>

Perhaps they are disgusted that there isn't enough wokeness?

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: CrudeSausage
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: usenet-news.net
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Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
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On 2024-08-03 6:38 p.m., Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 8/3/24 06:43, chrisv wrote:
>> CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> I remember reading one article where a guy's Tesla spontaneously
>>> combusted and when asked, he still said "I'd buy another one.
>>
>> It must not have caught fire in his garage and burned his house down.
>>
>
>     Well the accidents I read about with Tesla's catching fire
> mostly happen on the highway for some reason. Other batteries as
> in cell phones, tablets, electric bikes,etc. are the ones causing
> problems and perhaps burning down houses.  I haven't heard of a
> Tesla wall battery burning any thing down yet.

How inconvenient that I show up with facts!
<https://www.businessinsider.com/couples-tesla-caught-fire-charging-overnight-caused-a-house-fire-2021-8>

>     Often these charging batteries have been badly situated
> for charging such as in spaces or in materials that obstruct
> the cooling of the battery.  Right now I have 2 laptop charging
> along with two wireless home phones and so far no problems with
> setting fires at all.
If ever we stop seeing your posts here, we'll know what happened. What
will be most important is that after your house burns down and there are
third-degree burns all over your body, your last words to whoever you
talk to should be "I would buy one again."

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: CrudeSausage
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Organization: usenet-news.net
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Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
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On 2024-08-04 4:34 a.m., Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 15:38:55 -0700
> Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/3/24 06:43, chrisv wrote:
>>> CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember reading one article where a guy's Tesla spontaneously
>>>> combusted and when asked, he still said "I'd buy another one.
>>>
>>> It must not have caught fire in his garage and burned his house down.
>>>
>>
>> Well the accidents I read about with Tesla's catching fire
>> mostly happen on the highway for some reason. Other batteries as
>
> Lithium battery fires are spectacular and *very* hard to put out
> but there are enough battery cars on the road for solid statistics,
> they're a good deal less likely to catch fire than petrol (gasoline) cars.
>
> No I don't have a cite handy - google it!

The media keeps saying that electric cars are less likely to catch fire
than gas cars but I find it striking that they never produce ratios
proving this point. When gas cars spontaneously combust, it is usually
because they were retrieved from the bottom of a river or lake, restored
and the internals eventually catch fire. Otherwise, you need some sort
of impact. With electric cars, merely driving or charging them will do it.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: Ahem A Rivet's
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:16 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
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On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 12:04:09 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> This is an interesting question from a survivalist point of view. Is it
> possible to hook up your EV to solar panels?

Of course it is - the hookup (for off grid) looks like this:

PV ----+
|
Wind --+--> Charge Controller -> Battery -> Inverter -> Isolator switch
| -> Fuse box -> Load
|
Etc ---+

Once you get out of the inverter it's mains just like the grid so
it can power a car charger or anything else. This is all off-the-shelf kit
order it all from Amazon if you like (you can probably get better deals
though).

The expensive bit is having enough battery to hold for several
days (say 100-200kWh), LifePo (which doesn't catch fire) comes in at
€250-€350/kWh (€25-70k). Domestic scale flow battery companies are still in
startup phase no sign of products on the market yet and DIY designs are
unreliable - good flow battery electrodes are difficult and the subject of
patents so for now Lithium or Lead/Acid are the only options for small
scale - Lead/Acid cheaper to buy, Lithium more expensive to buy but lasts
much longer so cheaper in the long run.

Because of this expense (and the reliability of the grid overall) a
common variant is to add the grid under "Etc" above and use cheap night
rate electricity to top up a (much cheaper) 10-20kWh battery when the
renewables are wanting (ie. turn on at night when the battery is below some
percentage).

This doesn't achieve survivalist goals of independence but it does
work wonders on reducing electricity bills and makes power cuts and
brownouts unnoticable. On the other hand a grid tie setup with no battery
storage gets the financial benefits for less outlay and can even make the
bills go negative.

> Now... let's look at the other side, producing fuel from vegetable oil or
> mix of alcohol. What would be needed in terms of raw materials and in
> terms of technology to make that happen?

Much depends on your engine - if you modify the engine to run on
pure alcohol (spark engine) or pure vegetable oil (diesel) then making fuel
is very simple (ferment/distil, grow oil seeds/press) but your engines
aren't very good.

If you want to make proper biodiesel that will run in most diesel
engines with no more modification than possibly replacing some seals and
the filters after a bit (because biodiesel tends to clean pipes) then you
will need a supply of (pure) methanol and sodium hydroxide (other alcohols
and alkalis are possible but these are the easiest) and you'll need to make
(or buy) a biodiesel reactor which can be made from a domestic hot water
tank (including the immersion heater), copper pipes and valves -
instructions are easy to find.

Most biodiesel reactors you can buy are plastic - you might
consider the possibilities inherent in the combination of hot flammable
fluids and plastic containers for a while before buying one.

I have no idea how you'd go about making a good petrol (gasoline)
substitute.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:40 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 12:40:44 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 03/08/2024 14:41, chrisv wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> There's plenty of iron and chlorine easily available everywhere. If
>> we wanted to build enough tanks we could hold a year's supply of electricity
>> for the planet without impacting the availability of raw materials - but we
>> only need about ten days (that's still about a competition sized swimming
>> pool of tanks per 100k poeople
>
> Are you saying that a battery the size of a competition sized swimming
> pool could power 100k people for ten days? No fscking way.
>
Its totally bonkers

These ArtStudents™ always leave the numbers out so the working cannot be
checked

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: CrudeSausage
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: usenet-news.net
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:42 UTC
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From: crude@sausa.ge (CrudeSausage)
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
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On 2024-08-04 5:46 a.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-08-03 6:28 a.m., D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> You mean cars that run on batteries whose production leaves a
>>>> massive carbon footprint
>>>> <https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/article/22026518/lithium-batteries-dirty-secret-manufacturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon-footprint>, which are only recycled at a rate of 1% <https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/04/lithium-costs-a-lot-of-money-so-why-arent-we-recycling-lithium-batteries/>, which spontaneous combust "rarely" <https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lithium-ion-battery-fires-electric-cars-bikes-scooters-firefighters/> and which are 79% less reliable than gas cars <https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/2023/11/electric-vehicles-are-improving-but-charging-and-battery-issues-persist-in-consumer-reports-2023-annual-auto-reliability-survey/?msockid=287d4f79ae8b60c3236c5bb1afb0613d>.
>>>>
>>>> Once again, you are a ridiculous cretin.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry Bobby, I have analyzed the thread and it does in fact seem like
>>> you are a ridiculous cretin. CrudeSausage is the clear winner here.
>>
>> Truth is the clear winner, not me.
>
> Can't you let a man troll in peace? ;)
>
>> When I was buying my first car in 2004 (late bloomer, I had a train
>> station nearby that always brought me straight to university and
>> work), I actually wanted a Prius. I had no interest in paying for gas
>> because, at the time, I
>
> Last time I did the calculation, electric didn't even come close to the
> economy of a gasoline car. Hyrbid was much closer.

The Chevrolet Volt has the best idea, in my opinion. It's too bad that
the company abandoned it. An electric car that can rely on a gasoline
recharge whenever the battery is depleted makes the most sense. Hybrids
are good too, but I think that what you get from a hybrid vehicle can be
reproduced by simply injecting hydrogen to the burning process in a
regular car. Apparently, it allows for fuel to be burned in its
entirety, resulting in less pollution and a ten-fold improvement in
efficiency.

There is no way EVs could compete with such a solution.

> I think today (many years later) the I could probably make a financial
> case for a hybrid over gasoline, but would have to run the excel
> spreadsheet again if I can find it.

I just read that hybrids tend to be less reliable than traditional
gasoline engines. I imagine it's the electric car of the car which
causes the greatest number of issues.

>> didn't want to enrich Arabs. That's when I started doing a lot of
>> research on hybrid and electric cars and started realizing the
>> pitfalls of having one.
>>
>> A lot of people love their electric cars, but a lot of people love
>> their unreliable Jeeps too. I remember reading one article where a
>> guy's Tesla
>
> It's marketing and virtue signalling. I find it hilarious when I debate
> climate hysterics that they have an iphone worth 1000 USD and I have a
> button phone worth 50 USD. In addition, I keep mine until it breaks,
> while they somehow find the money to buy a new smart phone every 2-3 years.
>
> Isn't consumption supposed to damage the planet? ;)
>
> Marketing and virtue signalling. Creating a need where there is none.

Funny enough, I got an iPhone specifically because it gets at least five
years of support from the manufacturer. I wanted to avoid having a phone
which would become insecure two years from purchase, and I also wanted
to avoid constantly replacing it.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:45 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 12:45:06 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 04/08/2024 10:41, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 03/08/2024 11:56, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 11:16:55 +0100
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can you DO Sums?
>>>
>>>     Yes.
>>>
>>>> Can you calculate how much 'battery' is needed, and how much actually
>>>
>>>     Yes done that - with a generous overhead.
>>>
>>>> exists in the real world?
>>>
>>>     There's plenty of iron and chlorine easily available everywhere. If
>>> we wanted to build enough tanks we could hold a year's supply of
>>> electricity
>>> for the planet without impacting the availability of raw materials -
>>> but we
>>> only need about ten days (that's still about a competition sized
>>> swimming
>>> pool of tanks per 100k poeople - that's the answer I got when I did the
>>> sums). I'm not so sure about Vanadium but it's not in short supply.
>>> Now if
>>> we had to depend on Lithium for storage we'd be in trouble.
>>>
>>>> Can you calculate how many Hiroshima sized nuclear  explosions the
>>>> energy in the battery would need to be to keep just a small country
>>>> going overnight?
>>>
>>>     The Battery ??? You call yourself an engineer ? Reminds me of the
>>> time when people thought there would be *a* computer. District scale
>>> (and
>>> downwards) batteries make a lot more sense.
>>>
>>
>> So no mathematical refutation, just an ad hominem attack?
>>
>>>     There are already a *lot* of batteries distributed around the
>>> world's power grids and there will be more as fast as they can be built
>>> because they make money for their owners. On top of all the grid scale
>>> batteries many homes now have some battery storage (usually only about a
>>> day's worth but larger flow batteries are appearing) which lets them buy
>>> cheap night rate electricity and use it in the day time or ignore an
>>> outage
>>> of a few hours. Some EVs and chargers support V2L and can power the
>>> house
>>> from the car.
>>>
>>
>> Yes. I calculated we have enough energy storage  to keep the worlds
>> grid up for nearly three minutes
>>
>> You havent done the sums. You use words like 'a lot'  . Yiu even think
>> an 'outage pf a few gpurs is acceptable'
>> Try telling that to a patient on a life support machine.
>>
>>
>>>     It all adds up - but we do need to build a *lot* of batteries
>>> (swimming pool per 100k with current commercial offerings) before we can
>>> depend on intermittent sources alone, rather fewer batteries if we bring
>>> some nuclear into the mix but even with 100% nuclear we need enough
>>> batteries to handle the fast peaks and troughs.
>>>
>>
>> Oh dear. We need to build 'a lot' of batteries.
>> Or nuclear power stations.
>> Oh Nuclear power stations are *cheaper* than renewables plus
>> batteries., Whoda  thunk it?
>>
>> Not you, apparently.
>>
>> Your post contains not one quantity. It is full of *qualitative*
>> statements.
>>
>> "Yes done that - with a generous overhead." I know you havent. Because
>> I *have* That's simply bullshit.
>>
>> Never confuse carefully crafted bullshit with carefully calculated
>> engineering solutions.
>>
>
> Another interesting question is... _if_ as climate hysterics love to
> say, it is so easy to just store all the worlds electricity needs from
> solar and wind, in a few batteries, why haven't we done so?
>
> Surely we would no longer bother with nuclear, but just throw a few
> batteries here and there and the problem is solved.
>
> Or could it be that it is actually financially and physically impossible
> with current technology?
>
Correct.

> Or is it that climate rationalists like the Philosopher and myself are
> somehow engaged in a conspiracy to keep this technology off the market?

They alarmists would blame big Oil so that there would still be a need
for gas.

But big oil has far more to fear from nuclear, than from batteries
running on fairy farts

--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: CrudeSausage
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: usenet-news.net
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:47 UTC
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
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On 2024-08-04 5:50 a.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-08-03 6:36 a.m., D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-08-02 1:50 p.m., Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 12:57:36 -0400
>>>>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Power lines aren't the problem, you ridiculous cretin. Power
>>>>>> _production_ is the problem. There is no shortage of videos of
>>>>>> electric
>>>>>> cars owners lined up to the few charging stations that work
>>>>>> because not
>>>>>> only is there not enough electricity being produced there (because we
>>>>>> had to close coal factories after all), the stations themselves
>>>>>> cease to
>>>>>> work and nobody is ever around to fix them.
>>>>>
>>>>>     I'm trying to keep out of this but Oh boy that is priceless
>>>>> garbage! Most EV owners charge at home overnight taking advantage
>>>>> of the
>>>>> times when the grid is underutiliosed and electricity is cheap.
>>>>
>>>> And what do you do when you're on a road trip, pray tell? Do you
>>>> drive as many kilometres you can, come back home to charge, drive
>>>> the same kilometres and come back home to charge? Or do you use a
>>>> charging station?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Let's also add that it is very entitled to assume that everyone just
>>> have a house so they can charge overnight. Many people in the world
>>> live in apartments, which makes this impossible.
>>
>> Great point. The time when housing was still affordable has passed.
>> Here in Quebec, a person coming out university and landing a job with
>> a starter salary might have been able to afford a house in some
>> distant suburb a few years ago, but even those distant homes now have
>> unreasonable prices. It wouldn't be a problem if our government wasn't
>> trying to convince us that there is a labour shortage (there isn't)
>> and that we need a ton of immigrants (legal or illegal) to solve it.
>> Instead, we have lots of useless people coming in who need to live
>> somewhere, the government expects them to help build homes but they
>> are wholly incapable of even hitting a nail into a plank of wood. Even
>> if they were capable of doing something other than sticking their hand
>> out for money, stabbing or raping people, the construction companies
>> which would have been willing to build these homes aren't willing to
>> do it with the restrictive costs of materials today. If they build, it
>> will be homes for the rich where they can make a profit, but the
>> government needs homes for the wretched where there is no money to be
>> made. The result is that more parasites come in looking for a handout,
>> they get money from the taxpayer merely for existing, and they band
>> together with other cockroaches to buy whatever shithole they can in
>> whatever distant municipality that will have them. They'll put twenty
>> families into a small home if they have to as long as they can stay
>> and prevent a _working_ couple from getting that modest home.
>>
>
> Fear not! Let yourselves be inspired by swedens unregulated and
> unrestricted immigration! ;) This created many new millionaires among
> the socialist party, because the government would pay for the immigrants
> to live somewhere, so crafty socialists started immigration housing
> companies extracting millions and millions of dollars from the
> government for something which should not have happened in the first place.
>
> But this is very common in sweden.
>
> When they privatized schools (which was a wise decision) over night,
> plenty of socialist politicians popped up in school company boards
> getting nice extra salaries on top of their party salaries, and on top
> of the parliament salary (which is corruption and should have landed
> them in prison).
>
> When it comes to the housing situation in Stockholm, a new graduate from
> univeristy would not be able to afford a small 1 room apartment á 25 m^2
> in the city center without parents helping out with the cash needed and
> with the security for loans.
>
> I think, if you work hard, that it should be possible to save for a
> 1 room apartment in about 4-5 years or so if you don't live too freely.

In exchange for the money they made, those same people have doomed their
country into becoming yet another dysfunctional Islamic state. It might
not happen immediately, but Sweden will be unrecognizable in the next
two decades. Their culture will disappear, replaced by some generic
Muslim one. Women will be unable and unwilling to go out at night at
all, during the day they will be forced to wear a headdress (even if
they aren't Muslim) for fear of being raped or killed, and anyone White
will need to carry a weapon for fear of being attacked by a handful of
Muslims. The same is already happening to France, Belgium and England,
and now Ireland is joining in on the fun.

I've worked with these people and taught their kids. They are not here
to integrate; they are here to conquer.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: CrudeSausage
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: usenet-news.net
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:52 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
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Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
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On 2024-08-04 5:51 a.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-08-03 6:40 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 03/08/2024 08:11, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 17:49:30 -0400
>>>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-08-02 1:50 p.m., Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 12:57:36 -0400
>>>>>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Power lines aren't the problem, you ridiculous cretin. Power
>>>>>>> _production_ is the problem. There is no shortage of videos of
>>>>>>> electric
>>>>>>> cars owners lined up to the few charging stations that work
>>>>>>> because not
>>>>>>> only is there not enough electricity being produced there
>>>>>>> (because we
>>>>>>> had to close coal factories after all), the stations themselves
>>>>>>> cease
>>>>>>> to work and nobody is ever around to fix them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     I'm trying to keep out of this but Oh boy that is priceless
>>>>>> garbage! Most EV owners charge at home overnight taking advantage
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> times when the grid is underutilised and electricity is cheap.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what do you do when you're on a road trip, pray tell? Do you drive
>>>>
>>>>     I don't go on road trips, that's a peculiarly American thing. The
>>>> longest journey I make (rarely) is about 350km of driving, most
>>>> current EVs
>>>> can easily do that on a charge. I wouldn't want to drive more than that
>>>> in a day and then only for one day but if I was going to I'd be
>>>> planning
>>>> rest stops at places with chargers thus recharging self and car at
>>>> the same
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>>> as many kilometres you can, come back home to charge, drive the same
>>>>> kilometres and come back home to charge? Or do you use a charging
>>>>> station?
>>>>
>>>>     Obviously when away from home it is usually necessary to depend
>>>> on the charging network (unless you're staying somewhere with a
>>>> charger or
>>>> can use a "granny cable") but "charging station" not so much. I see
>>>> chargers in supermarket, shopping centre, hotel and municipal car
>>>> parks as
>>>> well as motorway service stations. I rarely see all of the chargers
>>>> in use
>>>> anywhere.
>>>>
>>>>     The thing is that long journets are the exception not the norm,
>>>> most of the time most cars travel less than 100 miles per day which
>>>> means
>>>> that overnight charging easily keeps them full and even quite small
>>>> batteries suffice. A great many people were happy with the original
>>>> Nissan
>>>> Leaf with its 24kWh battery and 120km range (on a good day) - with
>>>> an EV
>>>> that limited I'd hire a car for long journeys and still come out way
>>>> ahead
>>>> on driving costs - 2c/km instead of 10c/km in fuel costs and much
>>>> cheaper
>>>> services (there's usually nothing to do but check everything in an EV
>>>> service).
>>>>
>>>>     EVs have only two serious downsides - they're expensive to buy and
>>>> they depreciate quickly at first because the new models are always much
>>>> better every year. These are good reasons not to buy a *new* EV, second
>>>> hand ones are getting interesting.
>>>>
>>> Evs have no upsides at all. Not really.
>>> Even fuel cost will be forced to rise on account of them not paying
>>> fuel duty
>>>
>>> The answer is in the sales figures of tthe major EV manufacturers.
>>> People are stinging away on droves.
>>
>> The local news just announced that our rates are going to increase 3%
>> every year to make up for demand. The 3% seems low until you realize
>> that is the maximum legal amount they can charge since our production
>> is owned by the state. If they could raise prices by 10 or 20%, they
>> would.
>>
>> It's just a matter of time before charging your EV will cost more than
>> gassing your car. To hippies, this won't matter because they will
>> still be "saving the planet" even though they never consider where
>> that battery goes after it is depleted (it's never recycled), where
>> the CAR goes after it is obsolete (its parts are never recycled
>> because doing so is lethal), and how much they polluted the
>> environment simply building the car in the first place.
>>
>>
>
> Add to that the fact that the whole in the public budget, when people
> are no longer getting taxed by the gas pump, is going to shift to EV
> charging.
>
> I think the gasoline tax in sweden is 50%. I would expect this to shift
> over to electricity once enough people switch, which will hopefully only
> happen in 20-30 years or so.

They will sell it as necessary to pay for the power plants they will
need to build to produce the electricity needed for the multitude of
things connected to the grid. Computers, televisions, phones and cars,
everything will be connected to the grid owned by the government. If the
population becomes too rowdy, they will produce a little less; if the
population goes along with their plans, they will produce a little more.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: CrudeSausage
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: usenet-news.net
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:59 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx06.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
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Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
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On 2024-08-04 6:04 a.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-08-03 11:45 a.m., chrisv wrote:
>>> CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
>>>>> *idiots*.
>>>>
>>>> Every one of us has had a moment where we woke up late AND happen to be
>>>> low on gas to get to work. In such a situation, stopping at a gas
>>>> station for a five-minute fill-up to then make it to work is still a
>>>> reality; imagine doing that with an electric car after you find out
>>>> that
>>>> you're low and that there was a power outage overnight.
>>>
>>> And what happens if, say, a hurricane is approching, and they advise
>>> people to evacuate the city?
>>>
>>> All the the public chargers would get immedately overwhelmed, leaving
>>> *everyone* stranded.
>>
>> And the people lining up to charge at those stations would create
>> pockets of traffic which would block those whose cars are charged from
>> getting anywhere.
>>
>> What most people don't seem to realize is that becoming the owner of
>> an electric vehicle is no different than becoming a welfare recipient.
>> The same way you rely on the government to give you taxpayer money
>> every month to pay your bills, you rely on the government to produce
>> the electricity that allows you to move from place to place. With a
>> gas-powered car, I can buy from Esso, Shell, Petro-Canada, Ultramar or
>> some tiny family gas station to fuel up my car. If I have a diesel
>> vehicle and there is some sort of oil crisis, I can produce fuel from
>> vegetable oil or even a mix of alcohol to get around. Other than
>> connecting to a charger which requires electricity that is produced by
>> the state, what choice do I have?
>>
>
> This is an interesting question from a survivalist point of view. Is it
> possible to hook up your EV to solar panels?

I'm going by what I learned from the 8-bit guy but I believe you will
first have to connect the solar panels to your existing grid which will
then supply the charging station. However, the amount of electricity
produced by the solar panel is a fraction of what the electric car needs
to charge. If it takes 24 hours for an EV to charge using a standard
110v outlet, you'd be looking at days with solar. I think it's possible
to connect it directly using the equipment that is sold to you when you
buy the panels, but the rate would still be too slow to be useful.

> Given the right equipment
> I'd say yes. That still leaves the problem of what to do during winter
> in the northern hemisphere, so I imagine that wind or your own built
> hydro might be necessary there.
>
> But...
>
> Those solutions are all based on components which you cannot manufacture
> yourself.
>
> Now... let's look at the other side, producing fuel from vegetable oil
> or mix of alcohol. What would be needed in terms of raw materials and in
> terms of technology to make that happen?

For biodiesel (the vegetable oil solution), from ThoughtCo
<https://www.thoughtco.com/make-biodiesel-from-vegetable-oil-605975#:~:text=Biodiesel%20is%20a%20diesel%20fuel%20that%20is%20made,the%20result%20is%20a%20less-expensive%2C%20renewable%2C%20clean-burning%20fuel.>

1 liter of new vegetable oil (e.g., canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil)

3.5 grams (0.12 ounces) sodium hydroxide (also known as lye). Sodium
hydroxide is used for some drain cleaners. The label should state that
the product contains sodium hydroxide (not calcium hypochlorite, which
is found in many other drain cleaners).

200 milliliters (6.8 fluid ounces) of methanol (methyl alcohol). Heet
fuel treatment is methanol. Be sure the label says the product contains
methanol (Iso-Heet, for example, contains isopropyl alcohol and won't work).

Blender with a low-speed option. The pitcher for the blender is to be
used only for making biodiesel. You want to use one made from glass, not
plastic because the methanol you will use can react with plastic.

Digital scale to accurately measure 3.5 grams, which equals 0.12 ounces

Glass container marked for 200 milliliters (6.8 fluid ounces). If you
don't have a beaker, measure the volume using a measuring cup, pour it
into a glass jar, then mark the fill-line on the outside of the jar.

Glass or plastic container that is marked for 1 liter (1.1 quarts)
Widemouthed glass or plastic container that will hold at least 1.5
liters (2-quart pitcher works well)

Safety glasses, gloves, and an (optional) apron

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: Ahem A Rivet's
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:31 UTC
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Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 12:31:40 +0100
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On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 06:58:37 -0400
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:

> According to Bing, replacing a battery in a used EV car will cost
> between $5,000 to $20,000. Does that price seem appropriate for a used
> car which would itself be worth about $3k? Additionally, each

This is why it is usually said that for all practical purposes an
EV is a battery on wheels, once the battery is dead so is the EV.

Now a quick look at ten year old EVs on the second hand market show
a lot of original model (24kWh) Nissan Leaf with displays indicating better
than 100km of range. Still quite viable for a good many people.

When the current crop of EVs are ten years old they will be much
more practical than those ten year old Leafs since they'll be degraded
60+kwH batteries not degraded 24kWh batteries. They'll be viable options
for most people.

> manufacturer makes batteries in a radically different way. You can't
> even be sure that the battery you'll need will be available a decade
> after the initial purchase of the car. The absolute _least_
> manufacturers can do is make a standard form for the battery.

There's no point because as you rightly observe nobody will put a
$20k battery in a $3k car - it's far more effective to essentially build
the battery into the car and optimise the overall design.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: The Natural Philosop
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Organization: A little, after lunch
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 12:03 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
"Lunduke"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 13:03:09 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 04/08/2024 11:16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> It is socially impossible to build anything like enough nuclear
> plants to get off fossil fuels. There are also questions about how long the
> available nuclear fuels will last - suffice it to say that estimates vary
> even more wildly than those about how long the oil will last.

This is actually not so

The total energy consumption of Great Brtiain, *including* indiustrial
and transport use of gas an oil, could be covered by somewhere between
100 and 300 medium sized nuclear plants.

Its hard to be more definite than that, on account of not knowing how
the market for energy would change cased with a high differential
between nuclear electricity and say synthetic gas.

That is not a huge number of power stations and it would cover less land
area than existing wind farms.

The current contribution to energy cost of the raw uranium is now around
$0.001c per kWh.

That means the price of nuclear electricity is very insensitive to the
price of uranium, which is currently around $50/lb.

A Japanese study calculated that to access the 4 billion tonnes of
Uranium in seawater could be done at $200/lb, so would be viable if
there was no other option.
As uranium prices rise the viability of reprocessing increases. And also
of breeder reactors and the use of thorium.

For what its worth Sir David Mackay calculated there was enough fissile
and fertile material on the earth to keep the existing population on a
current western lifestyle for 10,000 years

Which should be long enough to make fusion work.

So neither of your arguments stack up in the face of reality.

The greater risk is that we will run out of v cheap fossil fuels
required to kickstart nuclear power having wasted it all building
windmills and solar panels

Oh and the current lie that we will need 'nuclear AND renewables' is
utter bollocks.,
Once you have nuclear there is no reason to build a single solar or wind
farm ever again
And the renewable advocates know this.

They are the NIMBYS.

They want you to buy windmills, instead.

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
From: Ahem A Rivet's
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Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 12:13 UTC
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From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering
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On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 07:59:07 -0400
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:

> I'm going by what I learned from the 8-bit guy but I believe you will
> first have to connect the solar panels to your existing grid which will

No you don't - but that is the easiest and cheapest way. Off grid
works just as well but the battery costs are prohibitive for all but
survivalists.

> then supply the charging station. However, the amount of electricity
> produced by the solar panel is a fraction of what the electric car needs
> to charge.

That rather depends on how many solar panels you have.

Realistically on a good day you'll get about 200W/m^2 so if you
want to charge at 7kW (standard domestic charger) you'll need at least
35m^2 of solar panels, it would probably be a good idea to go to 50m^2 and
get a decent (but not full) charge in winter.

If the car is not parked at home during the day you'll also need a
battery to hold the charge until the car is there.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

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