On 03/08/2024 12:43, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 11:32:56 +0100
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The reason we havent got 'batteries' is because although eco-hippies can
>> dream about them its all cat belling. We dont know how to build grid
>> scale energy storage
>
> Building grid scale storage is a fast growing business - there are
> three distinct types of batteries being sold and installed as fast as they
> can be made. Big lithium batteries - mostly used for short term storage aka
> grid stabilisation but they also make their owners good money working the
> spot energy market. Iron and Vanadium redux flow batteries - for longer
> term energy storage - typical small installation is four 40 foot
> containers, large installations are usually measured in acres.
>
> This has only been going on for a decade or so.
>
And has not made any difference to anything. Only the grid stabilisers work

Stop hand waving and come up with an authoritative source as to how much
electrical storage the iron and vanadium *redox* (not redux) batteries
have, and how much is needed for one hour of total grid support in any
country. In my country _240GWh_ is a minimum for a dark cold windless
winter night.

And then sell you shares in those companys

"Rongke Power deployed the largest VRFB system to date, a 100 MW / 400
MWh system in Dalian, China. There are plans to increase the capacity of
this plant to 800 MWh.

Sumitomo Electric is a Japanese company that has been deploying VRFBs
since 2001. Sumitomo installed more than 50 MWh across the world between
2022 and 2023. The largest Sumitomo VRFB is a 15 MW/60 MWh installation
in Hokkaido. The installation has been under commercial operation since
2019.

Invinity Energy Systems is an Anglo-American company with deployments
across continents. Invinity has installed a total of about 25 MWh in the
past year. Overall, Invinity has deployed or contracted over 75 MWh
across 70 projects in 14 countries.

CellCube Inc., is an Austrian VRFB manufacturer with installations
across several countries. CellCube has deployed a total capacity of
13.95 MW/75.29 MWh. In the year between 2022 and 2023, CellCube
installed approximately 10 MWh.

VRB Energy is a VRFB OEM headquartered in Canada. VRB has deployed 45
MWh worth of capacity and is currently developing an additional 750 MWh.

The leading manufacturer of zinc-bromine RFB (ZBRFB) is Redflow. Redflow
was founded in 2005 and is headquartered in Australia. Between 2022 and
2023, Redflow deployed close to 5 MWh. The largest ZBRFB installation to
date has a 2 MWh rating.

The leading manufacturer of the all-iron redox flow battery is ESS Inc.
ESS is in the process of deploying commercial systems but has several
ongoing demonstrations."

All pissing in the wind. They are shouting about MWh installations when
we need GWh

Now bugger off and learn to Do Sums

--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

On 03/08/2024 12:54, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 07:19:43 -0400
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>
>> Hippies tend to forget that lithium batteries are not only in EVs but
>
> I haven't seen a hippy in decades.
>
>> laptops and cell phones as well. How long does the battery in your
>> laptop last before you need to replace it if you charge it all the way
>> to 100%? What about your cell phone? If they offer you a long warranty
>
> Vehicle batteries and laptop/cellphone batteries are made to
> different standards

LOL!

The original Tesla was made with cellphone batteries!

- specifically vehicle batteries are optimised for fast
> charging. They still last a lot longer if they don't get too many fast
> charges.
>
Not really fats charging is 5 minutes. No EV can do that.

> Experience with the oldest EVs around is that the batteries last
> longer than was originally expected and the batteries don't die they just
> take steadily less charge until they don't hold enough to be useful.
>
> All that being said for all practical purposes an EV *is* the
> battery and when it dies the EV is scrap. The current crop of 400-500km
> range EVs can take a lot of battery degredation before they reach the level
> of an original Leaf (which sold very well).
>
Well no, not really. Teh battery is about half the cost.

>> on the battery when you buy the vehicle new, that's fantastic. I would
>> worry for whoever bought a car used and no longer has a warranty.
>
> The manufacturers warranty is transferable - at least here.
>

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 03/08/2024 13:17, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 02/08/2024 15:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>> On 8/1/24 18:48, geodandw wrote:
>>
>>>> What makes you think there is a creator?
>>>
>>>     The universe and its subte connection at the level of
>>> sub-nuclear particles which happen to play out in the chemistry
>>> of everything including life and consciousness.
>>
>> You cannot prove that to be true, and in fact esoteric religion claims
>> otherwise.
>
> Already well proven, good sir.
>
I see. More dogma, no evidence

> It's physics all the way down.
>

I see. More dogma, no evidence

--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

The Natural Philosopher wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 03/08/2024 13:17, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 02/08/2024 15:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>> On 8/1/24 18:48, geodandw wrote:
>>>
>>>>> What makes you think there is a creator?
>>>>
>>>>     The universe and its subte connection at the level of
>>>> sub-nuclear particles which happen to play out in the chemistry
>>>> of everything including life and consciousness.
>>>
>>> You cannot prove that to be true, and in fact esoteric religion claims
>>> otherwise.
>>
>> Already well proven, good sir.
>>
> I see. More dogma, no evidence

Sorry to see you have no education. Don't expect to get one here.

>> It's physics all the way down.
>
> I see. More dogma, no evidence

You're competing in the wrong game, philosopher. Here's a nickel kid, get
yourself a Ph.D. in Physics. It's fun to watch the kiddies manipulating
microwaves, analyzing spectra, detecting electrons!

--
She is not refined. She is not unrefined. She keeps a parrot.
-- Mark Twain

On 03/08/2024 13:35, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 03/08/2024 13:17, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On 02/08/2024 15:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>>> On 8/1/24 18:48, geodandw wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> What makes you think there is a creator?
>>>>>
>>>>>     The universe and its subte connection at the level of
>>>>> sub-nuclear particles which happen to play out in the chemistry
>>>>> of everything including life and consciousness.
>>>>
>>>> You cannot prove that to be true, and in fact esoteric religion claims
>>>> otherwise.
>>>
>>> Already well proven, good sir.
>>>
>> I see. More dogma, no evidence
>
> Sorry to see you have no education. Don't expect to get one here.
I see teh old 'mirror trick' of projecting your won ignorance onto
others is serving you well.

>
>>> It's physics all the way down.
>>
>> I see. More dogma, no evidence
>
> You're competing in the wrong game, philosopher. Here's a nickel kid, get
> yourself a Ph.D. in Physics. It's fun to watch the kiddies manipulating
> microwaves, analyzing spectra, detecting electrons!
>
Dont be silly. I have enough physics already.

And don't call someone 3 times older than you 'kid' It makes you look silly
And I see you ignored all my references to actual philosophers of some
regard, so its clear you never studied any.

--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

On 2024-08-03 7:54 a.m., Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 07:19:43 -0400
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>
>> Hippies tend to forget that lithium batteries are not only in EVs but
>
> I haven't seen a hippy in decades.

You never look in the mirror?

>> laptops and cell phones as well. How long does the battery in your
>> laptop last before you need to replace it if you charge it all the way
>> to 100%? What about your cell phone? If they offer you a long warranty
>
> Vehicle batteries and laptop/cellphone batteries are made to
> different standards - specifically vehicle batteries are optimised for fast
> charging. They still last a lot longer if they don't get too many fast
> charges.

Meanwhile, fast-charging is the only option if you're at a station with
people waiting behind you.

> Experience with the oldest EVs around is that the batteries last
> longer than was originally expected and the batteries don't die they just
> take steadily less charge until they don't hold enough to be useful.
>
> All that being said for all practical purposes an EV *is* the
> battery and when it dies the EV is scrap. The current crop of 400-500km
> range EVs can take a lot of battery degredation before they reach the level
> of an original Leaf (which sold very well).

And what happens when that EV and its battery are scrap, pray tell?

>> on the battery when you buy the vehicle new, that's fantastic. I would
>> worry for whoever bought a car used and no longer has a warranty.
>
> The manufacturers warranty is transferable - at least here.

If it isn't expired.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 12:17:28 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 03/08/2024 11:56, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 11:16:55 +0100
> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> Can you calculate how many Hiroshima sized nuclear explosions the
> >> energy in the battery would need to be to keep just a small country
> >> going overnight?
> >
> > The Battery ??? You call yourself an engineer ? Reminds me of
> > the time when people thought there would be *a* computer. District
> > scale (and downwards) batteries make a lot more sense.
> >
>
> So no mathematical refutation, just an ad hominem attack?

Oh all right mathematics - small country Ireland consumes
approximately 30TWh of electricity per year so an overnight store would be
approximately 1/600th of that but let's go for a whole day with some
overhead and call it 100GWh of storage (alomst 6 Hiroshima yeilds). That's a
lot in one place but Ireland has around 5 million people so going by my
other basis of storage per 100K that would mean 50 batteries of 2 GWh (less
than 1/8th of a Hiroshima) each spread around the country.

Now for discharge rate - 2GWh in 24 hours is 83MW that's all it
needs to sustain. A flow battery has no self discharge and is physically
incapable of releasing energy unless the pumps are running and then only at
the designed rate. It cannot blow anything up.

Now some more sums - The electrolyte (Ferric Chloride) for an Iron
Chloride redux battery holds about 50Wh/l (Vanadium batteries are more like
300Wh/l) so each of those 50 batteries holds 6.5-40 million litres of
electrolyte.

> Yes. I calculated we have enough energy storage to keep the worlds grid
> up for nearly three minutes

What we have is totally irrelevant - what we need is the important
thing.

> "Yes done that - with a generous overhead." I know you havent. Because I
> *have* That's simply bullshit.

Look upwards I have.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

The Natural Philosopher wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 03/08/2024 13:35, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 03/08/2024 13:17, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Already well proven, good sir.
>>>>
>>> I see. More dogma, no evidence
>>
>> Sorry to see you have no education. Don't expect to get one here.
>
> I see teh old 'mirror trick' of projecting your won ignorance onto
> others is serving you well.

Back atcha!

>>>> It's physics all the way down.
>>>
>>> I see. More dogma, no evidence
>>
>> You're competing in the wrong game, philosopher. Here's a nickel kid, get
>> yourself a Ph.D. in Physics. It's fun to watch the kiddies manipulating
>> microwaves, analyzing spectra, detecting electrons!
>
> Dont be silly. I have enough physics already.

Obviously not, if you believe that physics is "dogma".

> And don't call someone 3 times older than you 'kid' It makes you look silly

You're 201 years old?

> And I see you ignored all my references to actual philosophers of some
> regard, so its clear you never studied any.

I took a philosophy class in college and have read a bit of Bertrand Russell.
Finally figured out that a lot of philosophy is just arguing about the meanings
of words. I don't give a shit about philosophy.

Why don't you go off somewhere and calculate some Hamiltonians? Will keep ya
outa our hair.

--
Day of inquiry. You will be subpoenaed.

CrudeSausage wrote:

>The problem is that other people make
>such plans too. Not only do you have to wait for them to be done with
>their 30-minute charge to 80%, you have to wait after the person who is
>waiting after them.

80% if they are following "charger etiquette". There will be those
who want to stay on an extra hour so that they can get "topped up".
"Charge rage" has already been coined to describe the conflicts that
occur.

I cannot imagine having to wait in a queue for *hours* to get a
charge. Which *will* happen, and a *lot*. Anyone who doesn't think
so is *stupid*.

>I wonder how this is more convenient than stopping
>at _any_ gas station and filling up in the time it takes for your wife
>to get in the station and get everyone a chocolate bar.

And the gas station actually works reliably. It's not broken down, or
locked-up, or the hose cut off for its copper.

Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
*idiots*.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

>There's plenty of iron and chlorine easily available everywhere. If
>we wanted to build enough tanks we could hold a year's supply of electricity
>for the planet without impacting the availability of raw materials - but we
>only need about ten days (that's still about a competition sized swimming
>pool of tanks per 100k poeople

Are you saying that a battery the size of a competition sized swimming
pool could power 100k people for ten days? No fscking way.

CrudeSausage wrote:

>I remember reading one article where a guy's Tesla spontaneously
>combusted and when asked, he still said "I'd buy another one.

It must not have caught fire in his garage and burned his house down.

On 2024-08-03 9:36 a.m., chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> The problem is that other people make
>> such plans too. Not only do you have to wait for them to be done with
>> their 30-minute charge to 80%, you have to wait after the person who is
>> waiting after them.
>
> 80% if they are following "charger etiquette". There will be those
> who want to stay on an extra hour so that they can get "topped up".
> "Charge rage" has already been coined to describe the conflicts that
> occur.
>
> I cannot imagine having to wait in a queue for *hours* to get a
> charge. Which *will* happen, and a *lot*. Anyone who doesn't think
> so is *stupid*.

Some of the research I did on electric technology twenty or so years ago
is part of why I decided that I would hold onto my QX60, as unreliable
as it might become, until it inevitably dies or the government forces an
electric car on me. I have no interest in sacrificing luxuries such as
being able to fuel my car in an appropriate amount of time to surrender
to some idiotic version of saving the planet. People in my area are
series dicks too in their inability to make routine stops, not letting
people turn when it's clearly their turn and going through red lights,
so I have no interest in being behind these clowns at a charging
station, hoping that today will be the day they decide to be considerate.

>> I wonder how this is more convenient than stopping
>> at _any_ gas station and filling up in the time it takes for your wife
>> to get in the station and get everyone a chocolate bar.
>
> And the gas station actually works reliably. It's not broken down, or
> locked-up, or the hose cut off for its copper.
>
> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
> *idiots*.

Every one of us has had a moment where we woke up late AND happen to be
low on gas to get to work. In such a situation, stopping at a gas
station for a five-minute fill-up to then make it to work is still a
reality; imagine doing that with an electric car after you find out that
you're low and that there was a power outage overnight.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

CrudeSausage wrote:

>> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
>> *idiots*.
>
>Every one of us has had a moment where we woke up late AND happen to be
>low on gas to get to work. In such a situation, stopping at a gas
>station for a five-minute fill-up to then make it to work is still a
>reality; imagine doing that with an electric car after you find out that
>you're low and that there was a power outage overnight.

And what happens if, say, a hurricane is approching, and they advise
people to evacuate the city?

All the the public chargers would get immedately overwhelmed, leaving
*everyone* stranded.

On 2024-08-03 9:43 a.m., chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> I remember reading one article where a guy's Tesla spontaneously
>> combusted and when asked, he still said "I'd buy another one.
>
> It must not have caught fire in his garage and burned his house down.

That's probably why he wants to buy another one. Perhaps the next one
will be the jackpot car that finally kills his family and burns all of
their belongings down.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

On 2024-08-03 11:45 a.m., chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>>> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
>>> *idiots*.
>>
>> Every one of us has had a moment where we woke up late AND happen to be
>> low on gas to get to work. In such a situation, stopping at a gas
>> station for a five-minute fill-up to then make it to work is still a
>> reality; imagine doing that with an electric car after you find out that
>> you're low and that there was a power outage overnight.
>
> And what happens if, say, a hurricane is approching, and they advise
> people to evacuate the city?
>
> All the the public chargers would get immedately overwhelmed, leaving
> *everyone* stranded.

And the people lining up to charge at those stations would create
pockets of traffic which would block those whose cars are charged from
getting anywhere.

What most people don't seem to realize is that becoming the owner of an
electric vehicle is no different than becoming a welfare recipient. The
same way you rely on the government to give you taxpayer money every
month to pay your bills, you rely on the government to produce the
electricity that allows you to move from place to place. With a
gas-powered car, I can buy from Esso, Shell, Petro-Canada, Ultramar or
some tiny family gas station to fuel up my car. If I have a diesel
vehicle and there is some sort of oil crisis, I can produce fuel from
vegetable oil or even a mix of alcohol to get around. Other than
connecting to a charger which requires electricity that is produced by
the state, what choice do I have?

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Progressives are brain-damaged demonic groomers

CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-08-03 11:45 a.m., chrisv wrote:
>> CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>>> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
>>>> *idiots*.
>>>
>>> Every one of us has had a moment where we woke up late AND happen to be
>>> low on gas to get to work. In such a situation, stopping at a gas
>>> station for a five-minute fill-up to then make it to work is still a
>>> reality; imagine doing that with an electric car after you find out that
>>> you're low and that there was a power outage overnight.
>>
>> And what happens if, say, a hurricane is approching, and they advise
>> people to evacuate the city?
>>
>> All the the public chargers would get immedately overwhelmed, leaving
>> *everyone* stranded.

And after the storm, the power interruption means the gas stations can’t
pump.
BTDT.

> And the people lining up to charge at those stations would create
> pockets of traffic which would block those whose cars are charged from
> getting anywhere.
>
> What most people don't seem to realize is that becoming the owner of an
> electric vehicle is no different than becoming a welfare recipient. The
> same way you rely on the government to give you taxpayer money every
> month to pay your bills, you rely on the government to produce the
> electricity that allows you to move from place to place.

Utility companies in the US are privately owned.

> With a
> gas-powered car, I can buy from Esso, Shell, Petro-Canada, Ultramar or
> some tiny family gas station to fuel up my car. If I have a diesel
> vehicle and there is some sort of oil crisis, I can produce fuel from
> vegetable oil or even a mix of alcohol to get around.

But your old QX60 isn’t a diesel…

> Other than
> connecting to a charger which requires electricity that is produced by
> the state, what choice do I have?

Besides installing your own solar panels on your roof & having it be 100%
off-grid capable?

A colleague made up this setup before CoVid .. he’s not only clobbered his
electric bill, but he’s got extra panels for extra capacity, so he’s been
basically been charging his 3 from it too, so he’s been doing all of his
driving now for essentially free.

-hh

On 8/3/24 04:54, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 07:19:43 -0400
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>
>> Hippies tend to forget that lithium batteries are not only in EVs but
>
> I haven't seen a hippy in decades.

Really? Where do you live? Of course in San Francisco we see few
survivors of the 60s and 70s but around the nation there are people
who emigrated for lower rent and more chances to make money. One large
group with quasi-religious overtones went to the South-East and I think
they went under the title of the Farm.

>
>> laptops and cell phones as well. How long does the battery in your
>> laptop last before you need to replace it if you charge it all the way
>> to 100%? What about your cell phone? If they offer you a long warranty

As Hippy approximation I never forget that batteries are all over the
place like it or not. My digital thermometer had to have its
AAA set replace recently. My battery opparated sphigomomanometer needs
it AA replaced but I have lost the Knack of getting them in.
On my laptop Dell 7450 the original battery was damaged and I bought two
replacements one of which worked. So I do not forget ever about
batteries and used to have my 12 volt charger for my late model Motorcycle.

>
> Vehicle batteries and laptop/cellphone batteries are made to
> different standards - specifically vehicle batteries are optimised for fast
> charging. They still last a lot longer if they don't get too many fast
> charges.
>
> Experience with the oldest EVs around is that the batteries last
> longer than was originally expected and the batteries don't die they just
> take steadily less charge until they don't hold enough to be useful.
>
> All that being said for all practical purposes an EV *is* the
> battery and when it dies the EV is scrap. The current crop of 400-500km
> range EVs can take a lot of battery degredation before they reach the level
> of an original Leaf (which sold very well).

Batteries are expensive but are in most cases replaceable.
>
>> on the battery when you buy the vehicle new, that's fantastic. I would
>> worry for whoever bought a car used and no longer has a warranty.
>
> The manufacturers warranty is transferable - at least here.

bliss

--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

On 8/3/24 06:36, chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> The problem is that other people make
>> such plans too. Not only do you have to wait for them to be done with
>> their 30-minute charge to 80%, you have to wait after the person who is
>> waiting after them.
>
> 80% if they are following "charger etiquette". There will be those
> who want to stay on an extra hour so that they can get "topped up".
> "Charge rage" has already been coined to describe the conflicts that
> occur.
>
> I cannot imagine having to wait in a queue for *hours* to get a
> charge. Which *will* happen, and a *lot*. Anyone who doesn't think
> so is *stupid*.
>
>> I wonder how this is more convenient than stopping
>> at _any_ gas station and filling up in the time it takes for your wife
>> to get in the station and get everyone a chocolate bar.
>
> And the gas station actually works reliably. It's not broken down, or
> locked-up, or the hose cut off for its copper.
>
> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
> *idiots*.
>

Not in urban or suburbam California are you? Soon needs to be defined
as by a relatively early date no more gasoline burners will
be sold in the State.

bliss

--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

On 8/3/24 08:45, chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>>> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
>>> *idiots*.
>>
>> Every one of us has had a moment where we woke up late AND happen to be
>> low on gas to get to work. In such a situation, stopping at a gas
>> station for a five-minute fill-up to then make it to work is still a
>> reality; imagine doing that with an electric car after you find out that
>> you're low and that there was a power outage overnight.
>
> And what happens if, say, a hurricane is approching, and they advise
> people to evacuate the city?
>
> All the the public chargers would get immedately overwhelmed, leaving
> *everyone* stranded.
>
"Get on a bus Gus."
"Get on a train Jane"
"Mount up on Shank's Mare and walk away Jack."

Some electric cars will be fully charged overnight at home and
some will have nearly full charges and you were not at gas stations
in the 1970s when it was every other day according to license plate
numbers with lines quite long because whether you are gassing up
or charging up it all takes time.
Of course when rough times come along the tough tighten up
and stick it out but California disasters are forest fires and
earthquakes and if you watch Video you will see lines of care evacuating
ahead of the fires but in quakes if you are not crushed beneath week
masonry you stick it out with your supplies until services return.

bliss

--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

On 8/3/24 13:18, -hh wrote:
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-08-03 11:45 a.m., chrisv wrote:
>>> CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Those who think that we can "go electric", any time soon, are GD
>>>>> *idiots*.
>>>>
>>>> Every one of us has had a moment where we woke up late AND happen to be
>>>> low on gas to get to work. In such a situation, stopping at a gas
>>>> station for a five-minute fill-up to then make it to work is still a
>>>> reality; imagine doing that with an electric car after you find out that
>>>> you're low and that there was a power outage overnight.
>>>
>>> And what happens if, say, a hurricane is approching, and they advise
>>> people to evacuate the city?
>>>
>>> All the the public chargers would get immedately overwhelmed, leaving
>>> *everyone* stranded.
>
> And after the storm, the power interruption means the gas stations can’t
> pump.
> BTDT.
>
>> And the people lining up to charge at those stations would create
>> pockets of traffic which would block those whose cars are charged from
>> getting anywhere.
>>
>> What most people don't seem to realize is that becoming the owner of an
>> electric vehicle is no different than becoming a welfare recipient. The
>> same way you rely on the government to give you taxpayer money every
>> month to pay your bills, you rely on the government to produce the
>> electricity that allows you to move from place to place.
>
> Utility companies in the US are privately owned.

Not all of them but it hard once they are private to return
them to public owership. In Sacramento, California the power
company had its own nuclear reactor. I think they had some problems
with leakage though.

>
>> With a
>> gas-powered car, I can buy from Esso, Shell, Petro-Canada, Ultramar or
>> some tiny family gas station to fuel up my car. If I have a diesel
>> vehicle and there is some sort of oil crisis, I can produce fuel from
>> vegetable oil or even a mix of alcohol to get around.
>
> But your old QX60 isn’t a diesel…
>
>> Other than
>> connecting to a charger which requires electricity that is produced by
>> the state, what choice do I have?

Solar panels on your home with a battery support system and
if the sun should stop shining. It can be dicey for the purely solar
but we have a school district in Pittsburg, Californi with wind turbines
as well and that powers their smaller fleet of electical school buses.
Much of the power used in Urban and Suburban Californi comes from the
wind and a good deal of solar but we are on track to get fossil fuels
out of the electrical generation mix. We beside solar panels have
solar-powered steam generation plants. The boiler is the focus of
many movable mirrors. We also use water base power storage pumping it
uphill during high output times and then in lower solar output times
letting the water flow thru the turbines.

> Besides installing your own solar panels on your roof & having it be 100%
> off-grid capable?
>
> A colleague made up this setup before CoVid .. he’s not only clobbered his
> electric bill, but he’s got extra panels for extra capacity, so he’s been
> basically been charging his 3 from it too, so he’s been doing all of his
> driving now for essentially free.
>
>
> -hh
>
Oh sounds like sweet setup but not for the apartment-dwelling urban
resident. Some of the building in San Francisco were not built with
roofs capable of solar panel support but some are flaunting solar
panels and gardens.

bliss

--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

On 8/3/24 06:43, chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> I remember reading one article where a guy's Tesla spontaneously
>> combusted and when asked, he still said "I'd buy another one.
>
> It must not have caught fire in his garage and burned his house down.
>

Well the accidents I read about with Tesla's catching fire
mostly happen on the highway for some reason. Other batteries as
in cell phones, tablets, electric bikes,etc. are the ones causing
problems and perhaps burning down houses. I haven't heard of a
Tesla wall battery burning any thing down yet.

Often these charging batteries have been badly situated
for charging such as in spaces or in materials that obstruct
the cooling of the battery. Right now I have 2 laptop charging
along with two wireless home phones and so far no problems with
setting fires at all.
bliss

--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

On 8/3/24 05:17, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 02/08/2024 15:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>> On 8/1/24 18:48, geodandw wrote:
>>
>>>> What makes you think there is a creator?
>>>
>>>     The universe and its subte connection at the level of
>>> sub-nuclear particles which happen to play out in the chemistry
>>> of everything including life and consciousness.
>>
>> You cannot prove that to be true, and in fact esoteric religion claims
>> otherwise.
>
> Already well proven, good sir.
>
> It's physics all the way down.
>
> Preserve your software. The rest is meat. (Kudos to Rudy Rucker, the
> mathematical fucker.)
>

And if my creator is real it is still of no matter to present
humanity except to direct hymns of praise in that direction from
anywhere at all. We get to be for a very brief time in this universe
and we should be grateful for the chance and the brevity of the
experience. Or course I expect lots of folks to stand the idea on
its head and claim personal god of their choice and religious
experience but it is all in their heads after all. Maybe their
God is in there too.

bliss

--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

On 8/3/24 8:08 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
From: "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
> 186282@ud0s4.net wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
Organization: vector apex
>> On 8/2/24 7:41 AM, D wrote:
>>>
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2024 20:37:38 -0400
>>> Yes... the more crazy the linux world is becoming, the more I am leaning
>>> towards OpenBSD. I wouldn't be surprised if I actually did base my
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
>>> company servers on openbsd in the end. It seems robust, small and well
Thunderbird/78.13.0
>>> thought out.
MIME-Version: 1.0
>>
In-Reply-To: <v8l6kp$3edug$4@dont-email.me>
>> For "serious" servers - this is my current rec.
>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> Linux is, or can be, great but it's in too-rapid
Content-Language: en-US
>> flux at the moment - with eye-candy and such
>> becoming the major priorities.
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>> Oh, and Linus isn't young anymore. He has been
Message-ID: <UDidneQk_4HOUDP7nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@earthlink.com>
>> the glue holding the system kernel intact and
Lines: 69
>> consistent. Before the last of the good Linux
>> mags disappeared there were columns from those
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
>> in his close orbit relating combat over many
NNTP-Posting-Host: 99.101.150.97
>> 'improvements' that would basically trash a
X-Trace: sv3-LIB9YBly7eVh2xScEmWKPpRlDqyb2/Nw+R09V2u955dMO2eGwYBn7aKaFElZg7Jm1Ff4QqIliEMg1mO!JeX2LGaxeXGy2vK9i++Ct2RuLQfhFZ04/cBg0WXrRZxZrBh+aRFgESUIKy3c6uSIv7tYRewG8/Qr!ep68YHGdgdU5SLV9HDUO
>> lot of what is, corrupt the logic of the system.
>>
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
>> Once Linus exits .....
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
>
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> https://itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/torvalds-says-no-need-to-name-successor-as-that-will-happen-on-its-own.html
>
Xref: unconfigured comp.os.linux.advocacy:8539 comp.os.linux.misc:1659 alt.folklore.computers:398
> I don't think I'll ever be in the situation where I need to really "name" a

> successor – it will be fairly clear who it is. Not because this is some
> democracy and people would vote on it and there's a clear winner, but
> because these things really happen on their own: a "successor" isn't
On 8/3/24 8:08 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> somebody who gets anointed as such, they end up just doing the work and
> 186282@ud0s4.net wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> making themselves one that way. There's always been a few people around who
>
>> On 8/2/24 7:41 AM, D wrote:
> are clearly just people who get relied on a lot. These are people who have
>>>
> been around for years, often decades, and people know them and know how
>>> Yes... the more crazy the linux world is becoming, the more I am leaning
>>> towards OpenBSD. I wouldn't be surprised if I actually did base my
> they work and trust them.
>>> company servers on openbsd in the end. It seems robust, small and well
>
>>> thought out.
>>
> <laharsnip>
>> For "serious" servers - this is my current rec.
>>

>> Linux is, or can be, great but it's in too-rapid

>> flux at the moment - with eye-candy and such
>> becoming the major priorities.
The prob is that Linus was the one with "The Vision" - and
>>
has worked hard to keep that from going totally to shreds
>> Oh, and Linus isn't young anymore. He has been
>> the glue holding the system kernel intact and
so Linux doesn't just become a crappy Neo-Winders bowl of
>> consistent. Before the last of the good Linux
>> mags disappeared there were columns from those
spaghetti code.
>> in his close orbit relating combat over many

>> 'improvements' that would basically trash a
>> lot of what is, corrupt the logic of the system.
GUI environs ... well ... they can do those as they please
>>
(though some more under-the-hood consistency would please me)
>> Once Linus exits .....
>
but the kernel - that's the heart and soul.
> https://itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/torvalds-says-no-need-to-name-successor-as-that-will-happen-on-its-own.html

>
> I don't think I'll ever be in the situation where I need to really "name" a
In one of the old Linux mags there was a column by some
> successor – it will be fairly clear who it is. Not because this is some
kernel guy named 'Zac'. It was always some enthused twits
> democracy and people would vote on it and there's a clear winner, but
> because these things really happen on their own: a "successor" isn't
with some neato new trick that would ONLY require trashing
> somebody who gets anointed as such, they end up just doing the work and
> making themselves one that way. There's always been a few people around who
a lot of what's always been and works well. Linus had the
> are clearly just people who get relied on a lot. These are people who have
gravitas to tell 'em to fuck off ... find some other way
> been around for years, often decades, and people know them and know how
> they work and trust them.
that didn't break the system & utilities. Who else WILL
>
have that wisdom and gravitas ?
> <laharsnip>

I'm beginning to agree with 'D' ... that Linux has become
The prob is that Linus was the one with "The Vision" - and
too much of a 'business', that The Vision has been lost.
has worked hard to keep that from going totally to shreds
so Linux doesn't just become a crappy Neo-Winders bowl of
Soon the Foundation will find a way to just sell it to M$
and that's that.
spaghetti code.

GUI environs ... well ... they can do those as they please
The BSDs may be the last refuge - I think they're mostly
(though some more under-the-hood consistency would please me)
tended by more 'academic' cultured people.
but the kernel - that's the heart and soul.

In one of the old Linux mags there was a column by some
kernel guy named 'Zac'. It was always some enthused twits
And if any young gurus have envisioned some new OS with
with some neato new trick that would ONLY require trashing
much of the Linux goodness/solidity/simplicity - now's the
a lot of what's always been and works well. Linus had the
gravitas to tell 'em to fuck off ... find some other way
time to really get into writing it.
that didn't break the system & utilities. Who else WILL
. have that wisdom and gravitas ?

I'm beginning to agree with 'D' ... that Linux has become
too much of a 'business', that The Vision has been lost.
Soon the Foundation will find a way to just sell it to M$
and that's that.

The BSDs may be the last refuge - I think they're mostly
tended by more 'academic' cultured people.

And if any young gurus have envisioned some new OS with
much of the Linux goodness/solidity/simplicity - now's the
time to really get into writing it.

On 7/29/24 4:45 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2024-07-29, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>
>>> Never said anything about being able to do EVERYTHING in a terminal.
>>> But you can create high-quality documents just using the terminal.
>>
>> Absolutely: At PPOE generating documents was our job and we did everything
>> with XEDIT and Script. At one point someone demoed a WYSIWYG word
>> processing system, and the editors decided it would take them several times
>> as long.
>
> "But it's so _pretty!_" says the manager who overrides the editors.

Look ... GUI doc editors ARE great ... WYSIWYG and more.
I'm not gonna piss on them. Still like WordPerfect, whomps
the shit out of Word.

The thing is more "crude" systems still DO have their
place. Pure terminal apps still have their place. The
trick is matching the system to the de-facto NEED.

For a 'server' - you're probably not gonna be doing
biz docs on it. THERE a pure terminal is surely the
best, most secure, thing. A minimal, like LXDE, GUI
on top maybe - best if it doesn't auto-start.

But for 'work-stations' - well, in real life they're
probably gonna be Winders for better, or (surely) worse.

This is the reality. Win boxes are cheap and pretty and
lots of "IT" people more or less know the tricks. They
are not likely to go away as the "work-horse" systems
for biz or private use anytime soon DESPITE all the
ongoing debacles. People DO stick to the devils
they know.

Anyway, LibreOffice is probably everyone's best bet
at the moment - Win/Lin or whatever. It'll do nice
stuff and you don't need to become an M$ slave.

On 7/26/24 22:46, Joel wrote:
> "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>> On 7/26/24 8:55 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-26 3:32 a.m., 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    Gnome SUCKS anyway.
>>>
>>> KDE sucks more though.
>>
>> KDE is much more "usable" ... however at this
>> point it's become insanely fat, drags down the
>> CPU unacceptably and far MORE places where it
>> can go wrong. Seems to want to be Winders.
>>
>> LXDE/XFCE *much* better.
>
>
> Anyone clueful would be running Mint Cinnamon.
>
I have been using the KDE Desktop environment since
I started using Linux on a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 GB laptop in the
2006 Mandriva. It is versatile enough to provide any
interface the user has previously used. I had been using
the Amiga OS on a 50 MHz 32 MG enhanced Amiga A2000b with
3.4 GB of SCSI disk onboard. With KDE and now KDE Plasma
I have essentially recreated my Amiga OS desktop.
KDE is heavy on disk space but runs lightly
on either of my current machines. one is Dell Latitude 7450
with a 14" display and the Dell Precision 7730 with respectively
a TB of SSD storage and a 17" display and 512 GB SSD.

Now excuse me I have to write a letter to a friend admitting
I was wrong about the place and manner of death of an historical character.

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2024.07- Linux 6.6.43- Plasma 5.27.11

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