Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>>>> [Apple] did something big with the iPhone ...
>>>
>>> Which just happened to look like the LG Prada, which had made its
>>> appearance some months before ...
>>
>> Not really a valid comparison, the iPhone was more of a full computer.
>
>The Iphone was never a “full computer”. In the beginning it was just a
>“feature phone”, able to run the built-in apps and that was that. Only by
>popular demand did Apple open up its “app store”, and it rigidly
>controlled the functionality that third-party apps were able to add, till
>today.

OK, I see that you're largely correct about that (updates to iOS added
the third-party apps to the original iPhone), but what did LG do that
was better and sooner? Everyone knows that LG phones are second rate.
They had the initiative to release this kind of product, but Apple was
still the first to offer something like we today call the
"smartphone".

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 19:41:11 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
<mq9acjdll83mksnj6vpofr9rmaa9jevd81@4ax.com>:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> [Apple] did something big with the iPhone ...
>>>>
>>>> Which just happened to look like the LG Prada, which had made its
>>>> appearance some months before ...
>>>
>>> Not really a valid comparison, the iPhone was more of a full computer.
>>
>>The Iphone was never a “full computer”. In the beginning it was just a
>>“feature phone”, able to run the built-in apps and that was that. Only
>>by popular demand did Apple open up its “app store”, and it rigidly
>>controlled the functionality that third-party apps were able to add,
>>till today.
>
>
> OK, I see that you're largely correct about that (updates to iOS added
> the third-party apps to the original iPhone), but what did LG do that
> was better and sooner? Everyone knows that LG phones are second rate.
> They had the initiative to release this kind of product, but Apple was
> still the first to offer something like we today call the "smartphone".

No.

Palm Treos predate iPhones by years.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0-rc4 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Busier than a long tailed cat in a rocking chair factory"

candycanearter07 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote at 19:33 this Saturday (GMT):
>> candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
>> wrote:
>>>chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote at 11:59 this Saturday (GMT):
>>>> vallor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
>>>>>> look pretty.
>>>>>
>>>>><sigh> Here we go again...
>>>>>
>>>>>This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book, and
>>>>>using the Unix typesetting tools of yore to get the job done faster
>>>>>than with a wysiwyg editor.
>>>>>
>>>>>Most people who _try_ Linux would be newcomers, who probably spend
>>>>>"most of their time" on support forums...if needed.
>>>>
>>>> I never got into the "pretty desktop" thing. It gets covered up by
>>>> the app window anyway! That said, I do use my daughter's cool art as
>>>> a background.
>>>
>>>Same, the actual xfce4 config is mostly default besides messing with the
>>>taskbar and adding a couple widgets (conky). Almost all the icons on my
>>>desktop are hand-drawn :)
>>
>> I really like Xfce, it seems to just give you a working GUI without
>> the overhead.
>
> Right, and it has some pretty nice features too. The only things I can
> really complain about are that it's difficult to have a taskbar on both
> monitors and when I plug it into my monitor it keeps trying to put it at
> 4:3 mode.

I used arandr to set up an external monitor on top of the laptop monitor;
arandr just makes a little script that calls xrandr; I add it to
..xsession.

xrandr --output eDP-1 --primary --mode 1920x1080 --pos 0x1080 --rotate normal \
--output DP-1 --mode 1920x1080 --pos 0x0 --rotate normal \
--output HDMI-1 --off --output HDMI-2 --off
fluxbox-remote restart
feh --bg-scale --randomize --recursive ~/.local/wallpapers/ &
systemctl --user start mpd
asus

The fluxbox-remote call is needed because fluxbox gets confused when changing
screen layout.

feh sets up multi-screen wallpaper.

systemctl starts the music-player daemon.

The asus script sets up caps lock, mouse, xbindkeys, xmodmap, ...

Cue DFS chortling.

--
Don't you wish you had more energy... or less ambition?

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 17:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> Right, and it has some pretty nice features too. The only things I can
>> really complain about are that it's difficult to have a taskbar on both
>> monitors and when I plug it into my monitor it keeps trying to put it at
>> 4:3 mode.
>
> My work box with Debian/xfce is on a KVM and there is some weirdness when
> I switch to it. Sometimes, I think when it boots without being connected
> through the kvm it does even recognize 1920x1080 as an option and I have
> to screw around with xrandr.

The simple arandr GUI is a good way to get a starting xrandr script.

> I've got a 4 port kvm at home and have never seen the problem with Fedora/
> KDE or Ubuntu/Gnome.

Heh heh heh:

--
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
-- William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice"

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 07:44:33 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>>
>> GNU/Linux can adapt easily to new keyboard layouts. Where
>> the fuck are they?
>
> /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/ ?
>

The way to add/modify keycodes is to use X Keyboard Extension (xkb):

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/X_keyboard_extension

I have a Microslop keyboard with the "Windows" key and this can be
used as a modifier to define utf-8 sequences.

E.g. Win + a = alpha, Win + p = pi, etc.

>
> localectl ?
>

Eww! That's systemd! Yech! Mustn't touch.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 19:41:11 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
><mq9acjdll83mksnj6vpofr9rmaa9jevd81@4ax.com>:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> [Apple] did something big with the iPhone ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Which just happened to look like the LG Prada, which had made its
>>>>> appearance some months before ...
>>>>
>>>> Not really a valid comparison, the iPhone was more of a full computer.
>>>
>>>The Iphone was never a “full computer”. In the beginning it was just a
>>>“feature phone”, able to run the built-in apps and that was that. Only
>>>by popular demand did Apple open up its “app store”, and it rigidly
>>>controlled the functionality that third-party apps were able to add,
>>>till today.
>>
>> OK, I see that you're largely correct about that (updates to iOS added
>> the third-party apps to the original iPhone), but what did LG do that
>> was better and sooner? Everyone knows that LG phones are second rate.
>> They had the initiative to release this kind of product, but Apple was
>> still the first to offer something like we today call the "smartphone".
>
>No.
>
>Palm Treos predate iPhones by years.

But didn't have the comparable-to-real-computer-ness that iPhone would
gain early in its life, Android wasn't far behind, though.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 11:37 this Wednesday (GMT):
> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 17:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> Right, and it has some pretty nice features too. The only things I can
>>> really complain about are that it's difficult to have a taskbar on both
>>> monitors and when I plug it into my monitor it keeps trying to put it at
>>> 4:3 mode.
>>
>> My work box with Debian/xfce is on a KVM and there is some weirdness when
>> I switch to it. Sometimes, I think when it boots without being connected
>> through the kvm it does even recognize 1920x1080 as an option and I have
>> to screw around with xrandr.
>
> The simple arandr GUI is a good way to get a starting xrandr script.

arandr is really nice and I wish more programs would give a "save as
script" option

>> I've got a 4 port kvm at home and have never seen the problem with Fedora/
>> KDE or Ubuntu/Gnome.
>
> Heh heh heh:

xrandr says that the "ideal" resolution is a 4:3 one bigger than the
monitor vertically for some reason :(
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:10 this Tuesday (GMT):
> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 17:30:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't use it just because it's hard to type
>> those characters without copy paste.
>
> *nix systems have this cool thing called the “Compose key”. It lets you
> type mnemonic key sequences to get a range of Unicode characters.
>
><https://wiki.wlug.org.nz/ComposeKey>

Interesting, though I'm not sure learning/setting it up would be useful
since I almost never use Unicode chars
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 8/19/2024 10:04 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 19:49:03 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> [Apple] did something big with the iPhone ...
>
> Which just happened to look like the LG Prada, which had made its
> appearance some months before ...

The iPhone was in development LONG before that LG phone came out.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:23:27 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 8/19/2024 10:04 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 19:49:03 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>
>>> [Apple] did something big with the iPhone ...
>>
>> Which just happened to look like the LG Prada, which had made its
>> appearance some months before ...
>
>
> The iPhone was in development LONG before that LG phone came out.

I'd still be using my LG flipper if they hadn't killed 3G. I admit that
while I don't like virtual keyboards it beats 'knock 3 times for C'.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 18:20:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:10 this Tuesday (GMT):
>> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 17:30:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> I wouldn't use it just because it's hard to type those characters
>>> without copy paste.
>>
>> *nix systems have this cool thing called the “Compose key”. It lets you
>> type mnemonic key sequences to get a range of Unicode characters.
>>
>><https://wiki.wlug.org.nz/ComposeKey>
>
>
> Interesting, though I'm not sure learning/setting it up would be useful
> since I almost never use Unicode chars

When we did a project for Puerto Rico we played around with key sequences.
In the end it was easier to buy a Spanish keyboard. They're okay for
infrequent use but if you're working in a language with diacritical marks
it painful.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:10:56 -0400, Joel wrote:

> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>
>>Palm Treos predate iPhones by years.
>
> But didn't have the comparable-to-real-computer-ness that iPhone would
> gain early in its life, Android wasn't far behind, though.

Android allowed apps to directly access the filesystem (including overt
file manager apps) since the beginning, Apple never did.

Android lets you create apps like wi-fi scanners; I think that’s still not
allowed on Apple.

Android let you create alternative language implementations that natively
run on the device; Apple does not.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:23:27 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 8/19/2024 10:04 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 19:49:03 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>
>>> [Apple] did something big with the iPhone ...
>>
>> Which just happened to look like the LG Prada, which had made its
>> appearance some months before ...
>
> The iPhone was in development LONG before that LG phone came out.

Sure, because Apple, being such a nimble and market-savvy company, took
much longer than LG to develop its products.

On 21 Aug 2024 20:56:15 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> When we did a project for Puerto Rico we played around with key
> sequences. In the end it was easier to buy a Spanish keyboard. They're
> okay for infrequent use but if you're working in a language with
> diacritical marks it painful.

Unicode offers some useful symbols. For example, being able to use a
proper maths characters: “7 ÷ 3 ≠ 2”. “ETR 5±2 minutes”.

And what if you need diacritics across a number of different languages?
Here in NZ we need macrons to spell some place names correctly: Taupō,
Whakatāne, Ōpōtiki.

Ðose who assume ðat ðe whole raison d’être of Unicode only has to do wiþ
supporting “foreign” languages are guilty of some ... naïveté.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:10:56 -0400, Joel wrote:
>> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Palm Treos predate iPhones by years.
>>
>> But didn't have the comparable-to-real-computer-ness that iPhone would
>> gain early in its life, Android wasn't far behind, though.
>
>Android allowed apps to directly access the filesystem (including overt
>file manager apps) since the beginning, Apple never did.
>
>Android lets you create apps like wi-fi scanners; I think that’s still not
>allowed on Apple.
>
>Android let you create alternative language implementations that natively
>run on the device; Apple does not.

Well, I certainly never had a fuckin' iPhone, my mom swears by them,
every time she hands it to me I can't figure out the most basic
things, it's counterintuitive. I just loathe Apple, at this point,
the more I learn about their crapware the more I think it's just a
farce, their Mac hardware is good (if pricey), so is the iPhone in
theory, but using them is just abominable. Samsung's phones are the
best, to me, my Galaxy S21 is still going strong. And Linux is the
only way to fly on the desktop.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 05:06:23 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <va6h0e$8t8g$6@dont-email.me>:

> On 21 Aug 2024 20:56:15 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> When we did a project for Puerto Rico we played around with key
>> sequences. In the end it was easier to buy a Spanish keyboard. They're
>> okay for infrequent use but if you're working in a language with
>> diacritical marks it painful.
>
> Unicode offers some useful symbols. For example, being able to use a
> proper maths characters: “7 ÷ 3 ≠ 2”. “ETR 5±2 minutes”.
>
> And what if you need diacritics across a number of different languages?
> Here in NZ we need macrons to spell some place names correctly: Taupō,
> Whakatāne, Ōpōtiki.
>
> Ðose who assume ðat ðe whole raison d’être of Unicode only has to do wiþ
> supporting “foreign” languages are guilty of some ... naïveté.

But who uses thorn anymore? Nice to know about; not much use
in practice.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0-rc4 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing"

Joel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:10:56 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Palm Treos predate iPhones by years.
>>>
>>> But didn't have the comparable-to-real-computer-ness that iPhone would
>>> gain early in its life, Android wasn't far behind, though.
>>
>>Android allowed apps to directly access the filesystem (including overt
>>file manager apps) since the beginning, Apple never did.
>>
>>Android lets you create apps like wi-fi scanners; I think that’s still not
>>allowed on Apple.
>>
>>Android let you create alternative language implementations that natively
>>run on the device; Apple does not.
>
> Well, I certainly never had a fuckin' iPhone, my mom swears by them,
> every time she hands it to me I can't figure out the most basic
> things, it's counterintuitive. I just loathe Apple, at this point,
> the more I learn about their crapware the more I think it's just a
> farce, their Mac hardware is good (if pricey), so is the iPhone in
> theory, but using them is just abominable. Samsung's phones are the
> best, to me, my Galaxy S21 is still going strong. And Linux is the
> only way to fly on the desktop.

I found the iPhone pretty good, in general. But one thing I hated about it was
that touching the screen would turn it on. So I start SomaFM, put the
phone in my pocket, only to have it change tunes or stop playback.

The S24 requires a button push to turn on. I can start Pulsar to play back my
28Gb of tunes on the phone, turn it off, put it in my pocket, and listen
with no issues.

And no need for iTunes (which I have never used).

--
The last thing one knows in constructing a work is what to put first.
-- Blaise Pascal

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

>> Well, I certainly never had a fuckin' iPhone, my mom swears by them,
>> every time she hands it to me I can't figure out the most basic
>> things, it's counterintuitive. I just loathe Apple, at this point,
>> the more I learn about their crapware the more I think it's just a
>> farce, their Mac hardware is good (if pricey), so is the iPhone in
>> theory, but using them is just abominable. Samsung's phones are the
>> best, to me, my Galaxy S21 is still going strong. And Linux is the
>> only way to fly on the desktop.
>
>I found the iPhone pretty good, in general. But one thing I hated about it was
>that touching the screen would turn it on. So I start SomaFM, put the
>phone in my pocket, only to have it change tunes or stop playback.

It's little issues like that that seem to plague the iPhone interface,
to me, I run into brick walls every time I touch one.

>The S24 requires a button push to turn on. I can start Pulsar to play back my
>28Gb of tunes on the phone, turn it off, put it in my pocket, and listen
>with no issues.
>
>And no need for iTunes (which I have never used).

Interesting, I have rarely used my phones for audio listening, but I
did have a Sony Walkman MP3 player that was neat, although I didn't
use it a whole lot.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Joel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>
>>> Well, I certainly never had a fuckin' iPhone, my mom swears by them,
>>> every time she hands it to me I can't figure out the most basic
>>> things, it's counterintuitive. I just loathe Apple, at this point,
>>> the more I learn about their crapware the more I think it's just a
>>> farce, their Mac hardware is good (if pricey), so is the iPhone in
>>> theory, but using them is just abominable. Samsung's phones are the
>>> best, to me, my Galaxy S21 is still going strong. And Linux is the
>>> only way to fly on the desktop.
>>
>>I found the iPhone pretty good, in general. But one thing I hated about it was
>>that touching the screen would turn it on. So I start SomaFM, put the
>>phone in my pocket, only to have it change tunes or stop playback.
>
> It's little issues like that that seem to plague the iPhone interface,
> to me, I run into brick walls every time I touch one.
>
>>The S24 requires a button push to turn on. I can start Pulsar to play back my
>>28Gb of tunes on the phone, turn it off, put it in my pocket, and listen
>>with no issues.
>>
>>And no need for iTunes (which I have never used).
>
> Interesting, I have rarely used my phones for audio listening, but I
> did have a Sony Walkman MP3 player that was neat, although I didn't
> use it a whole lot.

I got some cheap Bluetooth over-the-ear earbuds, which so far have worked
really well with the S24.

I listen mainly when walking, taking care to look around before I cross the
street. I won't wear them on a bike, too iffy.

I was the second car waiting at an intersection. The light turned red. A care
went through. A truck coming the opposite way did not move. The car in front of
me thought he could go ahead and turn left after a couple of seconds.
Another clown ran the red light, crashed, pushed the car into the waiting
truck.

Never using that intersection. Especially on a bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFkp5RuhLz8

Dixie Dieway "Saviors"

--
Excellent time to become a missing person.

On 22 Aug 2024 06:33:15 GMT, vallor wrote:

> But who uses thorn anymore? Nice to know about; not much use in
> practice.

You can't spell 'futhark' without thorn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rune

On 22 Aug 2024 19:16:04 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On 22 Aug 2024 06:33:15 GMT, vallor wrote:
>
>> But who uses thorn anymore? Nice to know about; not much use in
>> practice.
>
> You can't spell 'futhark' without thorn.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rune

How do you spell "asshole?"

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

On 8/22/24 14:16, rbowman wrote:
> On 22 Aug 2024 06:33:15 GMT, vallor wrote:
>
>> But who uses thorn anymore? Nice to know about; not much use in
>> practice.
>
> You can't spell 'futhark' without thorn.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rune
>

ᛁᛏ ᛚᛟᛟᚲᛋ ᛚᛁᚲᛖ ᚦᛖ ᚨᛚᛈᚺᚨᛒᛖᛏ ᛟᚠ ᚾᛖᚨᚾᛞᛖᚱᚦᚨᛚᛋ

On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 01:16:07 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:

> ᛁᛏ ᛚᛟᛟᚲᛋ ᛚᛁᚲᛖ ᚦᛖ ᚨᛚᛈᚺᚨᛒᛖᛏ ᛟᚠ ᚾᛖᚨᚾᛞᛖᚱᚦᚨᛚᛋ

According to 23andMe I've got some of those good Neaderthal genes... We
Neanderthals got around.

https://thevikingherald.com/article/the-mystery-of-the-viking-graffiti-in-
the-hagia-sophia/512

On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 07:07:20 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
wrote in <v9skl8$2bv04$4@dont-email.me>:

> Farley Flud wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 17 Aug 2024 00:19:37 GMT, vallor wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I basically used another deroff.l for examples, referred to the flex(1)
>>> info documentation, and rolled my own scanner to skip the necessary lines.
>>>
>>> All-in-all, it was a fruitful evening, because
>>> I learned something.
>>
>> Flex does not support Unicode which makes it somewhat anachronistic.
>>
>> There is, however, RE-flex:
>>
>> https://github.com/Genivia/RE-flex
>>
>> But since flex is such a critical tool, I would like to see
>> a Unicode flex from the GNU project.
>
> Who the hell put's Unicode in their C/C++ code? (Except as data).

BTW, just tried using Unicode in the flex scanner as a pattern.

It worked just fine.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0-rc4 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"....Every morning is the dawn of a new error..."

On 24 Aug 2024 03:14:30 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> According to 23andMe I've got some of those good Neaderthal genes... We
> Neanderthals got around.

The only pure-blooded homo sapiens are in sub-Saharan Africa.