Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:39:32 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Win 11 : 30%
>> Win 10 : 66%
>> Win 8.x: 1%
>> Win 7 : 3%
>> Win XP : 0.4%
>>
>>
>> Win 11's 30% share of the Windows base after 2.75 years looks pretty
>> good.
>
>Compared to adoption rates of previous versions of Dimdows? Not so good.

What exactly would you be expecting, at this point? 30% is a lot of
machines. The existing Win10 machines didn't just vanish, many can't
or shouldn't upgrade. Mine would've been marked with 11, having been
built a few months before its release, so it was an in-place upgrade
from 10 21H1 for me, initially, and would've been a reasonable dead-
end version till 2032 or so. But Linux is still better.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 20:15:05 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Compared to adoption rates of previous versions of Dimdows? Not so good.
>
> What exactly would you be expecting, at this point? 30% is a lot of
> machines.

So what? Why should that, on its own, make customers less willing to
upgrade?

> The existing Win10 machines didn't just vanish, many can't or
> shouldn't upgrade.

That sort of thing was always true with past versions, as well.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>>>Compared to adoption rates of previous versions of Dimdows? Not so good.
>>
>> What exactly would you be expecting, at this point? 30% is a lot of
>> machines.
>
>So what? Why should that, on its own, make customers less willing to
>upgrade?
>
>> The existing Win10 machines didn't just vanish, many can't or
>> shouldn't upgrade.
>
>That sort of thing was always true with past versions, as well.

Winblows is a shit OS, dude, you know that as well as anyone being a
Linux advocate, people stick with slightly older versions to avoid the
bloat. They should be running Linux, but they don't, they just stick
with Win10, and they'll stick with Win11 when Win12 is current, and 10
finally loses support.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 7/21/2024 7:11 PM, wRonG wrote:

> I installed Linux Mint on a Wyse 5060 "thin client" (using the Xfce desktop). It works well.

The software no one wants 'works well' on the hardware no one wants.

How touching.

On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 21:09:29 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Winblows is a shit OS, dude, you know that as well as anyone ...

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

On 21 Jul 2024 19:39:01 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> They are using Gnome: if you want performance, you chose a lighter WM.
> You can't do that with Windows.

That would be an interesting set of benchmarks. I'm currently running
Ubuntu/Gnome, Fedora/KDE, Debuan/xfce, and Lubuntu/LXQt. Unfortunately
the four machines are completely different hardware.

Seat of the pants comparison: For the sort of things I do none of the four
are enough of a dog that I'd reinstall. If I did it would be the Gnome
because I'm not really happy with Gnome but I can live with it.

On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:33:13 -0400, DFS wrote:

> She screamed and put the fear of Jayne in him.
>
> Note: 'fear of Jayne' is a nickname for their sex toy.

I thought you meant Jayne Cobb from Firefly.

I'm embarrassed to admit that in my Biden moments I confuse Adam Baldwin
with Asshole Baldwin. That's about the worst mix-up possible.

On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:39:32 -0400, DFS wrote:

> Win 11's 30% share of the Windows base after 2.75 years looks pretty
> good.

Okay, Pollyanna...

https://www.tomshardware.com/software/operating-systems/windows-11-market-
share-declines-as-users-seemingly-shift-back-to-windows-10

On 22 Jul 2024 05:13:45 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
<lg6848FkdpgU2@mid.individual.net>:

> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:39:32 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Win 11's 30% share of the Windows base after 2.75 years looks pretty
>> good.
>
> Okay, Pollyanna...
>
> https://www.tomshardware.com/software/operating-systems/windows-11-market-
> share-declines-as-users-seemingly-shift-back-to-windows-10

I wonder how many are shifting to...dare I say it...something else?

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.9.10 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"PEDICURE: Bicycle repair."

DFS: Relf is still on Win10 I believe.

Yes, I reject Win11 & Win11 rejects my Aug 2019 PC.

P.S. CrowdStrike SelfIdentifies as a software company, don't believe them.

On Mon, 22 Jul 2024 04:34:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 21:09:29 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> Winblows is a shit OS, dude, you know that as well as anyone ...
>
> Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
> unsupported software?

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/storage/german-navy-aims-to-
replace-aging-8-inch-floppy-drives-with-an-emulated-solution-for-its-anti-
submarine-frigates

Only the Gods know what sort of software is on those 8" floppies. Note
that they only want to be able to emulate a 8" floppy not replace the
whole mess. Assuming that what they have works that might be the best
idea.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 07:27:05 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Certainly faster, certainly more stable, easier to maintain. And it
>> gives you a choice as for looks, whereas Windows doesn’t. So naturally
>> Linux can be better-looking than Windows, even taking ne gustibus non
>> disputandum est into account.
>
> 'Faster' is problematic.
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/review/windows-linux-mid22adl
>
> Phoronix is a Linux oriented site but they do frequent reviews of Windows
> versus various Linux distros on the same hardware. There is always the
> question of how benchmarks translate to real world performance of
> applications but for the most part the benchmarks show no clear winner.
>
> I prefer Linux for a number of reasons but speed has never been one of
> them.

Huh? Speed is one reason I prefer Linux. Speed of updates, speed of operation,
responsiveness.

Of course, I may be biased due to running Windows on a machine loaded down
with corporate crapware, antivirus, ....

--
There are more things in heaven and earth,
Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
-- Wm. Shakespeare, "Hamlet"

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 09:07:36 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> In the real world (not Linux bizarro world) people are EXCITED to be
>> using Windows and all that great application software and games. A new
>> version of Windows is a worldwide tech media event.
>
> EXCITED?

This guy sure gets excited about Windows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCqw9FmBgKY

FRANCIS HATES WINDOWS 10!

:-D

> As for the rest of the world, big carrots and big sticks seem to be
> ineffective in getting people to switch to the new version. Some of the
> new versions have sucked so badly Microsoft moved on rapidly sort of like
> when the cat rolls over, falls off the deck, and says 'You didn't see
> that!' as she clambers back up.

Case in point :-D

--
Your lover will never wish to leave you.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:33:13 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> She screamed and put the fear of Jayne in him.
>>
>> Note: 'fear of Jayne' is a nickname for their sex toy.

Sick man and his sick friend.

> I thought you meant Jayne Cobb from Firefly.
>
> I'm embarrassed to admit that in my Biden moments I confuse Adam Baldwin
> with Asshole Baldwin. That's about the worst mix-up possible.

--
You work very hard. Don't try to think as well.

On 2024-07-21 9:09 p.m., Joel wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> Compared to adoption rates of previous versions of Dimdows? Not so good.
>>>
>>> What exactly would you be expecting, at this point? 30% is a lot of
>>> machines.
>>
>> So what? Why should that, on its own, make customers less willing to
>> upgrade?
>>
>>> The existing Win10 machines didn't just vanish, many can't or
>>> shouldn't upgrade.
>>
>> That sort of thing was always true with past versions, as well.
>
>
> Winblows is a shit OS, dude, you know that as well as anyone being a
> Linux advocate, people stick with slightly older versions to avoid the
> bloat. They should be running Linux, but they don't, they just stick
> with Win10, and they'll stick with Win11 when Win12 is current, and 10
> finally loses support.

In many cases, they stick to the current version because they like
things as they are and don't want to commit to any kind of change.
They're not as conscious about "bloat" as more technical users are.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Racism and sexism don't exist because race and gender are "social
constructs"

On 7/22/2024 2:31 AM, Relf wrote:
> DFS: Relf is still on Win10 I believe.
>
> Yes, I reject Win11 & Win11 rejects my Aug 2019 PC.

What's your mobo?

> P.S. CrowdStrike SelfIdentifies as a software company, don't believe them.

What are they?

On 2024-07-22 1:13 a.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:39:32 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Win 11's 30% share of the Windows base after 2.75 years looks pretty
>> good.
>
> Okay, Pollyanna...
>
> https://www.tomshardware.com/software/operating-systems/windows-11-market-
> share-declines-as-users-seemingly-shift-back-to-windows-10

Even if you preferred Windows 10 (I don't), the reality is that
Microsoft will cease support sooner than later. There's no point in
wasting a year with that operating system for the minimal imagined
benefits it might provide.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Racism and sexism don't exist because race and gender are "social
constructs"

On 2024-07-22 2:02 a.m., vallor wrote:
> On 22 Jul 2024 05:13:45 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
> <lg6848FkdpgU2@mid.individual.net>:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:39:32 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Win 11's 30% share of the Windows base after 2.75 years looks pretty
>>> good.
>>
>> Okay, Pollyanna...
>>
>> https://www.tomshardware.com/software/operating-systems/windows-11-market-
>> share-declines-as-users-seemingly-shift-back-to-windows-10
>
> I wonder how many are shifting to...dare I say it...something else?

A dozen people who will end up crawling back to Windows once they get
acquainted with the random freezes and inability to wake from sleep.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Racism and sexism don't exist because race and gender are "social
constructs"

On 7/22/2024 1:13 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:39:32 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Win 11's 30% share of the Windows base after 2.75 years looks pretty
>> good.
>
> Okay, Pollyanna...
>
> https://www.tomshardware.com/software/operating-systems/windows-11-market-
> share-declines-as-users-seemingly-shift-back-to-windows-10

A 1% drop in market share?

Win11 is doomed (at least until the 24H2 update coming later this year)

https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/windows-11-version-24h1-changelog-release-date-features-ai-2024-update

On 2024-07-22 8:19 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 07:27:05 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> Certainly faster, certainly more stable, easier to maintain. And it
>>> gives you a choice as for looks, whereas Windows doesn’t. So naturally
>>> Linux can be better-looking than Windows, even taking ne gustibus non
>>> disputandum est into account.
>>
>> 'Faster' is problematic.
>>
>> https://www.phoronix.com/review/windows-linux-mid22adl
>>
>> Phoronix is a Linux oriented site but they do frequent reviews of Windows
>> versus various Linux distros on the same hardware. There is always the
>> question of how benchmarks translate to real world performance of
>> applications but for the most part the benchmarks show no clear winner.
>>
>> I prefer Linux for a number of reasons but speed has never been one of
>> them.
>
> Huh? Speed is one reason I prefer Linux. Speed of updates, speed of operation,
> responsiveness.
>
> Of course, I may be biased due to running Windows on a machine loaded down
> with corporate crapware, antivirus, ....

Have you ever considered simply removing the corporate crapware?

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Racism and sexism don't exist because race and gender are "social
constructs"

On 7/22/2024 10:36 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2024-07-22 1:13 a.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:39:32 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Win 11's 30% share of the Windows base after 2.75 years looks pretty
>>> good.
>>
>> Okay, Pollyanna...
>>
>> https://www.tomshardware.com/software/operating-systems/windows-11-market-
>> share-declines-as-users-seemingly-shift-back-to-windows-10
>
> Even if you preferred Windows 10 (I don't), the reality is that
> Microsoft will cease support sooner than later.

Official end of support is Oct 2025, more than 10 years after it was
released.

On 2024-07-22 10:41 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 7/22/2024 1:13 AM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 19:39:32 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Win 11's 30% share of the Windows base after 2.75 years looks pretty
>>> good.
>>
>> Okay, Pollyanna...
>>
>> https://www.tomshardware.com/software/operating-systems/windows-11-market-
>> share-declines-as-users-seemingly-shift-back-to-windows-10
>
>
> A 1% drop in market share?
>
> Win11 is doomed (at least until the 24H2 update coming later this year)
>
>
> https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/windows-11-version-24h1-changelog-release-date-features-ai-2024-update

1% loss of market share means an 80% increase in Linux market share, you
just know it.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Racism and sexism don't exist because race and gender are "social
constructs"

On 2024-07-22 8:23 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 09:07:36 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> In the real world (not Linux bizarro world) people are EXCITED to be
>>> using Windows and all that great application software and games. A new
>>> version of Windows is a worldwide tech media event.
>>
>> EXCITED?
>
> This guy sure gets excited about Windows:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCqw9FmBgKY
>
> FRANCIS HATES WINDOWS 10!
>
> :-D

Cartman sure is pissed off.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king
Racism and sexism don't exist because race and gender are "social
constructs"

Me: CrowdStrike SelfIdentifies as a software company, don't believe them.

DFS: What are they?

CrowdStrike is a CloudFlare wannabe.

Me: I reject Win11 & Win11 rejects my Aug 2019 PC.

DFS: What's your mobo?

"MSI MPG z390 Gaming Edge AC" Motherboard.
Aug 2019 I paid 178 $. Today it costs: 430 $.

My Logitech g600 mouse, with the gShift ring finger button,
cost 34 $ back then. I think S. Dotty paid 200 $ for the same mouse
but Linux doesn't/can't use the gShift button like I do:
Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG

Amazon.COM & Logitech.COM just confuse the issue.

Jun 1, 2020:
350 $, Curved 31.5", 15 lb Philips-328e1ca, VA (~IPS) panel, 178 ° Viewing angle, 60 Hz UHD, _SmartContrast,
_MinBright, _MinBlue, Latency, Response Time (GTG): 4ms.
49 Watts, 140 dpi ( 146 % = 140/96 ), zoomed 225%, HDMI v2, DisplayPort 1.2, !FreeSync, 100mm VESA mount.
AliExpress.US/item/3256801367151235.html
124 $, AmazonBasics monitor arm, Max( 25 lbs, <= 32" ),
( Tilt: 5° Dwn, 70° Up ? ), 360° Pole, 25" Reach, 13" Height Range.

Aug 6, 2019:
80 $, ddr4 RAM, 3 GigaHz ( gaming mode ), 16 gigs, Corsair Vengeance LPX.
296 $, 14nm i7-8700, 4.25+ GigaHz ( gaming mode ), LGA 1151.
34 $, CPU Fan, 4 copper, water-in-a-vacuum HeatPipes, DeepCool GamMaxx GT BK.
80 $, ATX Mid-Tower Chassis, Front USB TypeA, v2, v2, v3.1;
Back( v2, v2, v3.1, 3.1, v3.1, v3.1 TypeC ), (delicate) Wi-Fi antennas.

Aug 11, 2019:
130 $, 512 gig, USB v3.1 "Corsair Flash Voyager GTX" thumb drive.
228 $, 1 TeraByte, M.2 NVMe, "Samsung 970 EVO Plus"; Reads/Writes 3.5/3.3 GigaBytes/Sec.
80 $, Corsair CX Series 650 Watt Bronze Power Supply, 80% ( vs 87% ) efficiency.

Jul 26, 2019: 6g gdrr6
150 $, 12nm "MSI GeForce GTX 1650 AERO ITX 4g gdrr5", 4K at 60 Hz, HDMI 2.0B

On Mon, 22 Jul 2024 08:19:52 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Huh? Speed is one reason I prefer Linux. Speed of updates, speed of
> operation,
> responsiveness.
>
> Of course, I may be biased due to running Windows on a machine loaded
> down with corporate crapware, antivirus, ....

My comparisons are seat of the pants; I've never bothered to set up
metrics. Compiling large C projects, running 'ng build' on a large Angular
web app, serving up the app with nginx, running the CAD programs, DB2
operations, and so forth are close enough that I don't feel the Windows 11
or Debian machine to be slower than the other.

Updating the Windows machine is slower than Debian but that's not an every
day task.

At one time I did see a greater difference but that was as older machines
were upgraded to newer Windows versions with inadequate hardware. Linux
does do better on older machines but I've never been in a situation where
I could compare, say, XP and the equivalent Linux generation on the same
hardware.