On 2024-07-11 10:07 p.m., Joel wrote:
> WittySausage <witty@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-07-11 3:37 p.m., Joel wrote:
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> A lot of laptops are sold to gamers - this new technology has real
>>>>> advantages for laptops.
>>>>
>>>> It would if it worked. I notice that Fortnite, for example, will not run
>>>> on Windows-for-ARM. Gamers are not going to buy into it until their games
>>>> work. And the game developers won’t do that until they are assured of a
>>>> return on their sizeable investment. Which nobody can guarantee.
>>>
>>> I do realize that x86 has advantages, but they can all be emulated or
>>> something equivalent to that. They can remake how game code is
>>> interpreted. It's guaranteed to happen to produce superior devices.
>>> Everyone loves a brand new Alienware laptop. But it is sentenced to
>>> death on its inception, as an Intel or AMD-based device.
>>
>> Most gaming laptops stay with their original owner for two years. If, at
>> some point, the x86-64 becomes too much of a burden, the gamer doesn't
>> mind spending another two or three thousand to get a better machine.
>
>
> It could be unnecessary to replace hardware so frequently, with ARM.

It will be necessary to replace hardware no matter what. As we've
learned over the past few decades, doing the exact same thing that we've
always done requires additional processing power every eighteen months
or so.

--
CrudeSausage

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 07:10:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> It will be necessary to replace hardware no matter what. As we've
> learned over the past few decades, doing the exact same thing that we've
> always done requires additional processing power every eighteen months
> or so.

Why is that? It's difficult to pick a specific time but I haven't seen
much improvement in the things I do in the past 10 or 15 years. I am not a
gamer.

On 7/11/2024 6:57 PM, Joel wrote:

> This is simply a matter of dominoes falling, ARM will supplant x86,

Definitely not. It doesn't offer enough advantages over CISC.

Do you remember what you said to me 14.3 years ago?

"You are clueless, dude. Apple is going to release OS X for other OEMs
and retail sales - mark my words, it's coming."

> it's over as I said in the Subject line, they will put everything on
> this hardware. I would never buy another x86 machine, but the one I
> have could probably remain useful for a long time.

Don't get rid of it. You need to keep it around so I can be proven
right that Win13 will run just fine on it (you claimed Win12 would be
the end)

Win8.1 release: Oct 2013
Win10 release: July 2015
Win11 release: Oct 2021
Win12 release: 2025 (online speculation)
Win13 release: 2030?

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

>> This is simply a matter of dominoes falling, ARM will supplant x86,
>
>Definitely not. It doesn't offer enough advantages over CISC.
>
>Do you remember what you said to me 14.3 years ago?
>
>"You are clueless, dude. Apple is going to release OS X for other OEMs
>and retail sales - mark my words, it's coming."

If I really said that, that's funny, although that would've been at
the time I was enthusiastic about OS X.

>> it's over as I said in the Subject line, they will put everything on
>> this hardware. I would never buy another x86 machine, but the one I
>> have could probably remain useful for a long time.
>
>Don't get rid of it. You need to keep it around so I can be proven
>right that Win13 will run just fine on it (you claimed Win12 would be
>the end)
>
>
>Win8.1 release: Oct 2013
>Win10 release: July 2015
>Win11 release: Oct 2021
>Win12 release: 2025 (online speculation)
>Win13 release: 2030?

It's not inconceivable that M$ would support a 10th gen CPU for Win13,
actually. It would run like crap, though, and 12 might really not be
as good as 11, for that matter.

Either way, Linux is already better than pre-12 release (i.e. 11).

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-07-12 10:07 a.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 07:10:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> It will be necessary to replace hardware no matter what. As we've
>> learned over the past few decades, doing the exact same thing that we've
>> always done requires additional processing power every eighteen months
>> or so.
>
> Why is that? It's difficult to pick a specific time but I haven't seen
> much improvement in the things I do in the past 10 or 15 years. I am not a
> gamer.

As the processing power increases, the need to optimize your code
decreases. Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and
MacOS don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
partners sell more hardware.

--
CrudeSausage

CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2024-07-12 10:07 a.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 07:10:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> It will be necessary to replace hardware no matter what. As we've
>>> learned over the past few decades, doing the exact same thing that we've
>>> always done requires additional processing power every eighteen months
>>> or so.
>>
>> Why is that? It's difficult to pick a specific time but I haven't seen
>> much improvement in the things I do in the past 10 or 15 years. I am
>> not a
>> gamer.
>
> As the processing power increases, the need to optimize your code
> decreases. Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and
> MacOS don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
> partners sell more hardware.
>
its the art of making you want something more

On 7/12/2024 3:07 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and
> MacOS don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
> partners sell more hardware.

sniff sniff... I smell a Linux idiot looking for some cola love.

% wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 15:52:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>
>>>> Laptop? Keyboard covers are available. I wore out the ASUS keys long
>>>> ago,
>>>> bought a cover. I tried those stick-on keytops, but they were shitty.
>>>
>>> No, desktop. I have a new Amazon Basics leaning against the Fedora box and
>>> am too lazy to plug it into the KVM.
>>>
>>> A friend was a quadriplegic but had enough arm movement that he could type
>>> with some custom made splints that held pencils eraser end down. The
>>> erasers would wear our but pencils are cheap. Almost every cap on his
>>> keyboard was worn off. No problem for him but if he was remoted in and
>>> asked me to do something he couldn't do remotely I had to grab an intact
>>> keyboard to use for reference.
>>
>> One day I came into work to find that one of the wags I worked with had pried
>> all the keys off my ergonomic keyboard.
>>
>> Took awhile to get 'em back on right.
>>
>> (This was the same guy who ambushed me and taped me into my chair.
>> And then the company VP walked in. :-D
>>
>>> When i was in high school the shop/business kids took Spanish and typing.
>>> The college entrance types took Latin and spherical trig. Guess which
>>> would have been a lot more useful throughout my life.
>>
>> I took Spanish and typing and our high-school trig and calculus classes.
>> Only remnants remain, and my typing is weird but effective.
>>
> i type with one finger and i have to look

I use my lefty pinky for Shift no matter what letter. And my left pinky is
numb because of neck surgery. :-(

--
Don't read everything you believe.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 15:07:34 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> On 2024-07-12 10:07 a.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 07:10:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> It will be necessary to replace hardware no matter what. As we've
>>> learned over the past few decades, doing the exact same thing that
>>> we've always done requires additional processing power every eighteen
>>> months or so.
>>
>> Why is that? It's difficult to pick a specific time but I haven't seen
>> much improvement in the things I do in the past 10 or 15 years. I am
>> not a gamer.
>
> As the processing power increases, the need to optimize your code
> decreases. Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and
> MacOS don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
> partners sell more hardware.

Optimization is overrated :) By that I mean people will spend time trying
to optimize sections of code that will not make a difference rather than
getting the program running, defining the bottlenecks, and focusing on
those areas.

Language choices can kill you too. At one time Java was svelte with
acceptable performance. Then they introduced Swing and the 'you need a
bigger machine' mantra. I enjoy Python and it is getting better but you're
never going to build a Ferrari with it.

Networks are often overlooked. Our system consisted of a number of
workstations and a central server with a MVC model. That means every
workstation has to be informed of every change. Most slowness was a
network problem. That improved as LANs became faster. However the problem
doesn't go away as more applications are reaching out over the internet.

The hardware requirement I've seen with the most change is memory. Very
few people optimize for memory. When I interviewed 25 years ago the head
of engineering posed a question starting with 'assume you have unlimited
memory'. My background had been in embedded projects where memory was
extremely limited but he saw the future. Runs like crap? Add another 32
GB.

All that still begs the question of when is a box fast enough. My previous
work windows machine was 4th gen from 2013, similar to the box i'm running
Fedora 40 on. By 2020 my personal laptop was noticeably faster for some
projects but overall the old machine with Windows 7 was usable. These were
development machines, often compiling a large C code base. How many users
are doing something like that? When does the performance become
unacceptable and trigger a new purchase? When does an enterprise that is
looking at hundreds of machines to replace reach that point?

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 15:29:11 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 7/12/2024 3:07 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and MacOS
>> don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
>> partners sell more hardware.
>
>
> sniff sniff... I smell a Linux idiot looking for some cola love.

Yeah, that's a stretch. Windows has its annoyances but I've spent enough
time looking at perfmon logs to know that unless something is really wrong
most machines spend their time looking for something to do.

I'll add one caveat: buying a low end server with the expectation of
spinning up an infinite number of VMs.

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> % wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 15:52:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Laptop? Keyboard covers are available. I wore out the ASUS keys long
>>>>> ago,
>>>>> bought a cover. I tried those stick-on keytops, but they were shitty.
>>>>
>>>> No, desktop. I have a new Amazon Basics leaning against the Fedora box and
>>>> am too lazy to plug it into the KVM.
>>>>
>>>> A friend was a quadriplegic but had enough arm movement that he could type
>>>> with some custom made splints that held pencils eraser end down. The
>>>> erasers would wear our but pencils are cheap. Almost every cap on his
>>>> keyboard was worn off. No problem for him but if he was remoted in and
>>>> asked me to do something he couldn't do remotely I had to grab an intact
>>>> keyboard to use for reference.
>>>
>>> One day I came into work to find that one of the wags I worked with had pried
>>> all the keys off my ergonomic keyboard.
>>>
>>> Took awhile to get 'em back on right.
>>>
>>> (This was the same guy who ambushed me and taped me into my chair.
>>> And then the company VP walked in. :-D
>>>
>>>> When i was in high school the shop/business kids took Spanish and typing.
>>>> The college entrance types took Latin and spherical trig. Guess which
>>>> would have been a lot more useful throughout my life.
>>>
>>> I took Spanish and typing and our high-school trig and calculus classes.
>>> Only remnants remain, and my typing is weird but effective.
>>>
>> i type with one finger and i have to look
>
> I use my lefty pinky for Shift no matter what letter. And my left pinky is
> numb because of neck surgery. :-(
>
i use my right hand pointer finger to do everything

rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 15:07:34 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-12 10:07 a.m., rbowman wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 07:10:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> It will be necessary to replace hardware no matter what. As we've
>>>> learned over the past few decades, doing the exact same thing that
>>>> we've always done requires additional processing power every eighteen
>>>> months or so.
>>>
>>> Why is that? It's difficult to pick a specific time but I haven't seen
>>> much improvement in the things I do in the past 10 or 15 years. I am
>>> not a gamer.
>>
>> As the processing power increases, the need to optimize your code
>> decreases. Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and
>> MacOS don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
>> partners sell more hardware.
>
> Optimization is overrated :) By that I mean people will spend time trying
> to optimize sections of code that will not make a difference rather than
> getting the program running, defining the bottlenecks, and focusing on
> those areas.
>
> Language choices can kill you too. At one time Java was svelte with
> acceptable performance. Then they introduced Swing and the 'you need a
> bigger machine' mantra. I enjoy Python and it is getting better but you're
> never going to build a Ferrari with it.
>
> Networks are often overlooked. Our system consisted of a number of
> workstations and a central server with a MVC model. That means every
> workstation has to be informed of every change. Most slowness was a
> network problem. That improved as LANs became faster. However the problem
> doesn't go away as more applications are reaching out over the internet.
>
> The hardware requirement I've seen with the most change is memory. Very
> few people optimize for memory. When I interviewed 25 years ago the head
> of engineering posed a question starting with 'assume you have unlimited
> memory'. My background had been in embedded projects where memory was
> extremely limited but he saw the future. Runs like crap? Add another 32
> GB.
>
> All that still begs the question of when is a box fast enough. My previous
> work windows machine was 4th gen from 2013, similar to the box i'm running
> Fedora 40 on. By 2020 my personal laptop was noticeably faster for some
> projects but overall the old machine with Windows 7 was usable. These were
> development machines, often compiling a large C code base. How many users
> are doing something like that? When does the performance become
> unacceptable and trigger a new purchase? When does an enterprise that is
> looking at hundreds of machines to replace reach that point?
>
>
>
>
supply and demand everybody had a CB radio

On 2024-07-12 4:44 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 15:07:34 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-12 10:07 a.m., rbowman wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 07:10:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> It will be necessary to replace hardware no matter what. As we've
>>>> learned over the past few decades, doing the exact same thing that
>>>> we've always done requires additional processing power every eighteen
>>>> months or so.
>>>
>>> Why is that? It's difficult to pick a specific time but I haven't seen
>>> much improvement in the things I do in the past 10 or 15 years. I am
>>> not a gamer.
>>
>> As the processing power increases, the need to optimize your code
>> decreases. Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and
>> MacOS don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
>> partners sell more hardware.
>
> Optimization is overrated :) By that I mean people will spend time trying
> to optimize sections of code that will not make a difference rather than
> getting the program running, defining the bottlenecks, and focusing on
> those areas.
>
> Language choices can kill you too. At one time Java was svelte with
> acceptable performance. Then they introduced Swing and the 'you need a
> bigger machine' mantra. I enjoy Python and it is getting better but you're
> never going to build a Ferrari with it.
>
> Networks are often overlooked. Our system consisted of a number of
> workstations and a central server with a MVC model. That means every
> workstation has to be informed of every change. Most slowness was a
> network problem. That improved as LANs became faster. However the problem
> doesn't go away as more applications are reaching out over the internet.
>
> The hardware requirement I've seen with the most change is memory. Very
> few people optimize for memory. When I interviewed 25 years ago the head
> of engineering posed a question starting with 'assume you have unlimited
> memory'. My background had been in embedded projects where memory was
> extremely limited but he saw the future. Runs like crap? Add another 32
> GB.
>
> All that still begs the question of when is a box fast enough. My previous
> work windows machine was 4th gen from 2013, similar to the box i'm running
> Fedora 40 on. By 2020 my personal laptop was noticeably faster for some
> projects but overall the old machine with Windows 7 was usable. These were
> development machines, often compiling a large C code base. How many users
> are doing something like that? When does the performance become
> unacceptable and trigger a new purchase? When does an enterprise that is
> looking at hundreds of machines to replace reach that point?
>
>
>
>

--
CrudeSausage

On 2024-07-12 4:44 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 15:07:34 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-12 10:07 a.m., rbowman wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 07:10:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> It will be necessary to replace hardware no matter what. As we've
>>>> learned over the past few decades, doing the exact same thing that
>>>> we've always done requires additional processing power every eighteen
>>>> months or so.
>>>
>>> Why is that? It's difficult to pick a specific time but I haven't seen
>>> much improvement in the things I do in the past 10 or 15 years. I am
>>> not a gamer.
>>
>> As the processing power increases, the need to optimize your code
>> decreases. Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and
>> MacOS don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
>> partners sell more hardware.
>
> Optimization is overrated :) By that I mean people will spend time trying
> to optimize sections of code that will not make a difference rather than
> getting the program running, defining the bottlenecks, and focusing on
> those areas.
>
> Language choices can kill you too. At one time Java was svelte with
> acceptable performance. Then they introduced Swing and the 'you need a
> bigger machine' mantra. I enjoy Python and it is getting better but you're
> never going to build a Ferrari with it.
>
> Networks are often overlooked. Our system consisted of a number of
> workstations and a central server with a MVC model. That means every
> workstation has to be informed of every change. Most slowness was a
> network problem. That improved as LANs became faster. However the problem
> doesn't go away as more applications are reaching out over the internet.
>
> The hardware requirement I've seen with the most change is memory. Very
> few people optimize for memory. When I interviewed 25 years ago the head
> of engineering posed a question starting with 'assume you have unlimited
> memory'. My background had been in embedded projects where memory was
> extremely limited but he saw the future. Runs like crap? Add another 32
> GB.
>
> All that still begs the question of when is a box fast enough. My previous
> work windows machine was 4th gen from 2013, similar to the box i'm running
> Fedora 40 on. By 2020 my personal laptop was noticeably faster for some
> projects but overall the old machine with Windows 7 was usable. These were
> development machines, often compiling a large C code base. How many users
> are doing something like that? When does the performance become
> unacceptable and trigger a new purchase? When does an enterprise that is
> looking at hundreds of machines to replace reach that point?

I try to upgrade whenever my hardware is more or less broken. I've
replaced batteries, screens, speakers, top plates and stuff like that,
but sometimes it's pointless and you're better off just getting a new
machine. Cars are one area where I truly don't like changing. At the end
of the day, it's only supposed to get you to places and back. As long as
it's comfortable and has features you need like Bluetooth and decent
speakers, there is truly no reason to swap.

--
CrudeSausage

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:22:49 -0400, DFS wrote:

> [ARM] doesn't offer enough advantages over CISC.

RISC architectures like ARM and RISC-V offer plenty of advantages, but you
need native code to take advantage of them. That native code almost
entirely runs under Linux.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 15:07:34 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and
> MacOS don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
> partners sell more hardware.

All you have to do is compare the speed of the same hardware running
Apple’s and Microsoft’s OSes, versus Linux.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 12:19:08 -0700, % wrote:

> its the art of making you want something more

Microsoft used to be the master of that art, but you only have to look at
Windows 11 (non-)adoption figures to see that that mojo is gone.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 17:51:42 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Cars are one area where I truly don't like changing. At the end of the
> day, it's only supposed to get you to places and back. As long as it's
> comfortable and has features you need like Bluetooth and decent
> speakers, there is truly no reason to swap.

I've changed more than I wanted. My 2007 Toyota Yaris was wiped out by a
snowplow in 2011, so I replaced it with another one. Then in 2020 while at
the dealership for an airbag recall I saw a leftover 2018. That was the
end of the line for the Yaris hatchback and I got a good deal. Even that
year the Yaris sedans were rebranded Mazda 2. I'm not planning on another
one.

My bikes are more stable. I bought the Harley in '97, and the DR650 in
2003. The newest one is a 2008 V-Strom. I used to be more interested in
cars but now I see them as commodities that have rollup windows ans
heaters in the winter. (Or since it's been running close to 100 F this
week, A/C) I seldom use the Bluetooth rather than a thumb drive in the USB
port.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 23:02:07 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 15:07:34 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Additionally, there is no reason to believe that Windows and MacOS
>> don't artificially slow everyone down in an effort to help their
>> partners sell more hardware.
>
> All you have to do is compare the speed of the same hardware running
> Apple’s and Microsoft’s OSes, versus Linux.

https://openbenchmarking.org/result/2107013-IB-WIN11LINU39

https://www.phoronix.com/review/7950x-windows-linux/2

The second one comspares Ubuntu 22 and Windows 11. Benchmarks have subtle
biases Overall the amd-pstate gives Linux a slight edge if used.

https://docs.kernel.org/admin-guide/pm/amd-pstate.html

I didn't search much but didn't find a similar comparison on Intel.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 23:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 12:19:08 -0700, % wrote:
>
>> its the art of making you want something more
>
> Microsoft used to be the master of that art, but you only have to look
> at Windows 11 (non-)adoption figures to see that that mojo is gone.

I didn't look too hard but I didn't find numbers on Windows 10 machines
that could be upgraded but weren't versus those that couldn't be upgraded
but people weren't enthusiastic enough to buy new hardware.

Personally I thought the upgrade was a non-event. Do a tweak to move the
taskbar icons and a couple of other little things and life went on as
before.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 22:29 this Wednesday (GMT):
> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 12:46:35 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> A lot of laptops are sold to gamers - this new technology has real
>> advantages for laptops.
>
> It would if it worked. I notice that Fortnite, for example, will not run
> on Windows-for-ARM. Gamers are not going to buy into it until their games
> work. And the game developers won’t do that until they are assured of a
> return on their sizeable investment. Which nobody can guarantee.

So, it's a chicken or the egg issue?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 01:05 this Friday (GMT):
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 15:37:42 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I notice that Fortnite, for example, will not run on Windows-for-ARM.
>>
>> I do realize that x86 has advantages, but they can all be emulated or
>> something equivalent to that.
>
> Not the lower-level stuff like game anti-cheat. That cannot be emulated:
> it has to be done in CPU-native code.

Kernel anti-cheat was a bad idea anyways.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Le 13-07-2024, candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> a écrit :
>
> So, it's a chicken or the egg issue?

The answer has been provided a long time ago. I have no idea why some
people still consider it's still an issue.
Either you are a believer and it's the chicken (read the bible: God
created the animals, not the eggs).
Or you are a scientist and it's the egg (something which was not yet a
chicken make a chicken egg).

There is nothing more to investigate or to discuss about it.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote at 14:45 this Saturday (GMT):
> Le 13-07-2024, candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> a écrit :
>>
>> So, it's a chicken or the egg issue?
>
> The answer has been provided a long time ago. I have no idea why some
> people still consider it's still an issue.
> Either you are a believer and it's the chicken (read the bible: God
> created the animals, not the eggs).
> Or you are a scientist and it's the egg (something which was not yet a
> chicken make a chicken egg).
>
> There is nothing more to investigate or to discuss about it.

I was using a common saying...
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 19:52 this Wednesday (GMT):
> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 13:20:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> So once theres some real momentum, it will be transitioned over?
>>
>> Building the momentum will be the problem. The initial releases will need
>> to be really good and excite developers or they will wind up with another
>> RT/Windows Phone. Personally I like the microprocessors like the nRF52840
>> or RP2040 based on the Cortex series but they're a long way from a general
>> purpose consumer laptop/desktop.
>>
>>>> Supposedly there is a Windows 11 version that will run on the RPo, sort
>>>> of.
>>>
>>> RPo?
>>
>> Note to self: gotta get a new keyboard. I'm in no way a touch typist and
>> the legend is worn off the adjacent 'o' and 'i' keys.
>
> Laptop? Keyboard covers are available. I wore out the ASUS keys long ago,
> bought a cover. I tried those stick-on keytops, but they were shitty.

Yeah, I don't like the stick on ones either, when I've had to use a
computer that had one.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom