On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 01/01/2025 22:01, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> -hh wrote:
>>>
>>>> (snipped, unread)
>>>
>>> Around your family, you like to pretend that you're a good person,
>>> don't you, -highhorse.
>>>
>>> If only they knew what an asshole you are, how eager to attack decent,
>>> reasonable people you are.
>>
>> If you don't read what you comment on, aren't you afraid that you are
>> missing important parts of the argument? Also, how can you build spiritual
>> bridges of love between two human beings that way?
>
> He doan want no stinkin' spiritual bridges of lurve.
> Cash or credit card only.

Touché!

rbowman wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> I pass big rigs quickly just to minimize getting pelted with rocks. I
>> spent $1000 to get paint protection film put on the front of my car
>> before I took delivery. A good investment, to prevent all of the chips
>> in the paint that would otherwise be there.
>
>Bras are kooler.
>
>https://www.carcoverworld.com/front-end-covers

OMG. Those were awful.

--
"Oh look: its a backpedal" - lying asshole "-hh", shamelessly lying
that I "backpedalled" when I wrote "I'm not claiming that everyone who
doesn't like Linux is a freedom-hater". (I had earlier written that
"assholes and corporate shills" hate the fact that the people have
freedom.)

On 2025-01-01 20:17, Joel wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2025-01-01 18:40, Joel wrote:
>>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-01-01 14:46, TJ wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-12-29 18:53, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
>>>>>> Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you. But there isn't really any reason why you HAVE to use just
>>>>> one distro...
>>>>
>>>> There is also no reason why I would use another.
>>>
>>> Fedora is the right choice for GNOME. I need Debian, though, because
>>> it supports Cinnamon and is a flagship product, Mint would simply be
>>> too much of the liberated "desktop" features, but yet its interface
>>> can't be beat - except by using Cinnamon with another distro.
>>
>> Funny enough, there is a push within the Fedora community to make KDE
>> not GNOME the main desktop environment for the distribution. It
>> definitely works well, to say the least. I imagine that GNOME still has
>> problems or that the community is concerned the financial problems there
>> are a lot more serious than anyone is willing to admit.
>
>
> I would be surprised if Fedora made KDE the default and yet that is
> the one they offer as an alternative, so one would imagine as you
> suggest that if GNOME became defunct somehow, KDE would replace it,
> but KDE strikes me as too arbitrary a choice for the default on that
> distro, albeit GNOME could be thought to be one too, the problem being
> that there just aren't enough DEs that are robust which can be
> utilized by everyone. Cinnamon comes close, I like it myself but it's
> not *quite* as solid as GNOME, and I presume KDE as well. It doesn't
> bother me, as I'm not seeking perfection, but it's a consideration for
> the Fedora community nevertheless I'm sure.

I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 2025-01-02 03:24, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-01-01, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> -hh wrote:
>>
>>> (snipped, unread)
>>
>> The -highhorse snit sees an advocate or two admitting that they have
>> no experience with Photoshop. The snit sees an opportunity to attack.
>> He claims that advocate "haters" have been unreasonable. They have
>> been "loudly critical" of a product that they have no experience with.
>>
>> When challenged, the snit moves the goal posts to advocates talking
>> about prices and values, which he asserts is being "loudly critical"
>> of the more-expensive product.
>>
>> The snit also positively *gloats* about the fact that one advocate,
>> sdb, made a stupid argument in the course of one such discussion about
>> value.
>>
>> But even if one accepts the snittish claim that calling Photoshop
>> "expensive" or whatever constitutes being "loudly critical" of it, the
>> initial attack was that we were unreasonably critical of something
>> that we had no experience with, and thus were ignorant of.
>>
>> But the price has always been known! Being "critical" of the price is
>> *not* being critical of something we have no experience with and thus
>> are ignorant of!
>>
>> So, -highhorse's attack *fails* even if one accepts his snittish claim
>> calling Photoshop "expensive" and comparing value is "loud" "criticism
>> on cost".
>>
>> As usual, -highhorse attacked using nothing but idiocy and lies. As
>> usual, -highhorse failed.
>>
>> And let's consider sdb's brain-fart of ten (or whatever) years ago.
>> This is about the best that -highhorse can do, apparently. Yes, sdb
>> arbitrarily assigned a one cent price to GIMP, to compare relative
>> values. Yes, it was stupid. Notice the absolute *pleasure*
>> -highhorse gets out of this single example. The guy is a genuine
>> fscking *asshole*, folks.
>>
>> How many *stupid* things have freedom-hating assholes, like
>> -highhorse, spewed in here? I have hundreds of examples of -highhorse
>> and many others spewing mind-boggling stupidity.
>>
>> And sdb's brain-fart was only that. He wasn't being an asshole. He
>> wasn't attacking anyone using idiocy and lies.
>>
>> -highhorse attacks people using idiocy and lies. -highhorse has
>> claimed that advocates are "irrational" and "close minded", because
>> they "hate" Photoshop.
>>
>> Do cola advocates really "hate" Photoshop, or did -highhorse attack
>> using idiocy and lies?
>>
>> Between what sdb did, and what -highhorse did, which is worse?
>
> Well I worked in a print shop where PhotoShop was one of the tools we needed
> and I've always said that's really where it's needed, i.e., for
> professionals (artists, graphic designers, printers, studios, etc.) Its
> price is way out of whack for personal use (unless you're a very serious
> hobbyist with more money than brains). It's even worse now than it used to
> be, since Adobe has gone to renting their overpriced software instead of
> selling it.
>
> But the only reason Photoshop ever comes up in a Linux newsgroup in the
> first place is because small-minded twits (take your bows, -highhorse and
> DuFuS) claim that this totally unnecessary software, at least for the vast
> majority of computer users, isn't available on Linux.

I used to have Photoshop Elements on the Mac; I never used it. Since
then, I've practically never needed to use such an application. If I
have, Paint.net or GIMP did the job. I have yet to sit in the corner of
a room holding my knees and crying because I didn't have Photoshop
installed.

> Whoop dee do. If I
> actually needed to use Photoshop (I don't) than I would install it (or rent
> it, or however you use it now) on either a Mac or Windows machine.
> Non-problem solved. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of
> Windows users don't use Photoshop either.

They don't. The only people using it and/or requiring it work in the
field of photography or image manipulation. I would bet that most of us
don't even know people that work in the former or latter fields.

> What does any of this "prove" when
> dealing with Linux? That an expensive, niche product doesn't work on Linux?
> There's a lot of bloatware that very few people use that doesn't work on
> Linux. So what? It proves nothing. It's just grasping at straws by
> small-minded twits in their attempt to bolster their idiot arguments.
>
> And Photoshop IS way overpriced for personal use. Point, blank, period. I
> don't apologize for stating this obvious fact.

Here is an argument for using software under Linux: you don't need to
create an account to download the software, and don't need to create
another to use it. In fact, you don't need to identify yourself at all
to use your computer.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 1/2/25 6:22 AM, D wrote:
>
> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
>
>> D wrote:
>>
>>>> Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
>>>
>>> This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
>>
>> Trolling 101.  Claim victory in the midst of defeat.
>>
>> The reality is that I'm so much better that after making my point I
>> can ignore what dipshits say, with the confidence that no decent
>> person would side with the dipshit.
>>
>> Your 4:01 post was deleted, unread, as will every post that you make
>> in this thread, from now on.
>
> Ahh... I won! It was a good fight chris, but you met someone better and
> lost. =)

Goodness, chrisv's new year just hasn't started out well for him.
Time will tell if he metastasizes into YA case of chronic butthurt.

-hh

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>The *only* reason I run a headless raspios/Debian setup is because that
>is the most used and best known version for the Pi.
>
>Otherwise its Mint all the way. Its *good enough*...

Mint is a treasure among distros, because it operates effectively with
almost anyone. It's really not what I recommend for relatively
advanced users, but yet I am using Cinnamon with another distro,
clearly there are some genuinely solid features to Mint.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
> in KDE actually work as they should.

The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:30:14 +0100, D wrote:

> Postgres is interesting. It's old, but doesn't get mentioned a lot these
> days. Would you say their engineering culture is something to study?

Are you kidding?

https://www.enterprisedb.com/blog/postgres-most-admired-database-in-stack-
overflow-2023

https://www.timescale.com/blog/postgres-for-everything

What is important to me is the PostGIS add-on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostGIS

SQLite has a similar extension:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpatiaLite

> I've heard that many people do not like the python 2 to 3 debacle, and
> that python is becoming worse from a governance perspective. I've heard
> the woke mind virus has settled deep within the python project.

The backward incompatibility did put people off. Up until ArcGIS 11.x
Esri's ArcPy tools were based on Python 2.7 so my scripts needed to be
updated. However 10.7 was the end of the line for the 32-bit Esri tools
along with 2.7 Python so everything changed with 11.

https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/

What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?

On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>
> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.

GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 1/2/25 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>
>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>
> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
> they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
> it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
> design choice.
>

I agree. I started using Gnome in 2014, it changed the way I use MS
Windows. Menus tend to be arbitrary, very difficult to find stuff. A
short task bar of frequently used apps and text search for other stuff
is much better.

On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 04:05:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 21:09:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> Around here, most asshole pickups are black - although occasionally
>>> white - but all of them are immaculate. Not a speck of dirt. They've
>>> probably never been off pavement. The same make and model, but with
>>> some dirt and maybe a ding or two, is typically driven by someone
>>> who's using it for work, rather than as a penis extender.
>>
>> Not my usual genre but I laughed my butt off at the scene at the end
>> when the credits are rolling and Sarge, the Willys Jeep, is running a
>> bootcamp for 4WD trucks and SUVs that have never been off the pavement.
>
> Yes, my post reminded me of that too. :-)

I probably should have said 'Cars' instead of leaving people wondering
'end of what?'

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 15:06:25 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
> they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
> it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
> design choice.

I suppose. On KDE if I'm looking for thonny, I bring up the menu, mouse
over Development, and there it is, along with mu and vs code.

I sometimes type in the Windows search box but most of what I use
regularly is in the 'favorites' box or whatever it's called on the start
menu. Different strokes.

On 1/1/25 1:20 PM, Joel wrote:
> Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 11:44:29 -0500, -hh wrote:
>>
>>> [quote]
>>> Unfortunately, the only way that this point actually becomes
>>> "reasonable" is by finally admitting that many/most Linux fanboys are
>>> chronic consummate cheapskates.
>>> [/quote]
>>
>> You omit that many/most commercial software packages are
>> EXTORTIONATE in that they capture users via proprietary
>> formats and subscription accounts. The only difference
>> between them and the gangsters of old are the machine
>> guns.
>>
>> I can pay $100 for a 1/2" power drill and I can expect it
>> to last 25-50 years or more. (I inherited a power drill
>>from my grandfather that is almost 70 years old. The
>> only problem is a loose connection in the power cable
>> that can be easily fixed.)
>>
>> That same $100 won't even buy a 1 month subscription
>> for a desktop software package.
>>
>> The situation is borderline criminality.
>>
>> Both software and information want to be free (as in
>> "freedom" and not "beer"). We are seeing this happen.
>> Commercial software on the desktop is an endangered species.
>>
>> I can understand the airline industry paying big bucks
>> for flight reservation software, or the nuclear power industry
>> paying big bucks for control software, but a desktop spreadsheet
>> or word processor is trivial and should cost nothing.
>>
>> Everything done on the desktop has been standardized decades
>> ago. There is no need for commercial software in this arena.
>
>
> Clearly you're just ranting nonsense,

Which is par for the course for Feeb.

For example, good luck finding a 1/2" power drill for sale new today for
just $100 which will last for even 10 years of use, let alone his
"25-50" claim: the days of bulletproof all metal body Craftsman or
Black & Decker power tools are long since gone.

And they've been gone for decades: I can recall being on a job site
circa 1980 where the commercial grades died and the solution was a quick
run to Sears to buy a couple of Craftsman drills until the good stuff
could be express delivered. The result was that the assembly team was
burning out nearly 1 drill/day, which also meant that after 3-4 dead
drills got returned, the Sears was getting wise to the returns.

> ...people will pay M$ and Adobe for software if they really need it,
> the question is more whether the average consumer needs them - I, for
> one, prefer LO and GIMP

Of course, but that's a shift from "average user" to "consumer" to take
away the original context of corporate applications where these examples
were indeed the mainstream tools for decades, to try to rationalize
based on the needs/budgets of just a personal home PC user.

-hh

On 2025-01-02 15:13, Pancho wrote:
> On 1/2/25 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
>>>> offers a
>>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>>
>>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>>
>> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
>> they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
>> it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
>> design choice.
>>
>
> I agree. I started using Gnome in 2014, it changed the way I use MS
> Windows. Menus tend to be arbitrary, very difficult to find stuff. A
> short task bar of frequently used apps and text search for other stuff
> is much better.

Funny enough, my use of Windows also changed from using GNOME. Pressing
the Windows key and typing the name of the application seems a lot more
natural than the alternative. I'm happy I can do that in KDE too.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 16:11:11 -0500, -hh wrote:

>
> For example, good luck finding a 1/2" power drill for sale new today for
> just $100 which will last for even 10 years of use, let alone his
> "25-50" claim: the days of bulletproof all metal body Craftsman or
> Black & Decker power tools are long since gone.
>

I don't need "luck". I purchased a Milwaukee 1/2" for about $100
(maybe more maybe less). Milwaukee power tools are renowned throughout
the industrial trades as being perhaps the ultimate in quality.

Furthermore, all metal body construction was abandoned long ago due
to the shock hazards. The durable polymers that are now used are more
than an adequate substitute.

But this is all totally superfluous. The main point of the OP is that
commercial software companies can easily produce software that can
last decades, if not forever, but such software would literally destroy
them as a business entity. Therefore they are forced into extortionate
practices just to keep alive.

FOSS, OTOH, has no such ridiculous concerns.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

On 2025-01-02 03:50, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 22:45:28 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Yes, there are rules here, and ways to go around them, somehow. I
>> understand there is/was a cardboard disk that registers the truck speed.
>> Now there is some electronic version with a card with a chip
>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_tachograph).
>
> The trucks I drove were governed to 65 mph and the company wasn't
> converned about the speed. The log book was a 9x12 booklet stapled
> together with two staples where you recorded your statuses with a pen,
> drawing lines on a graph. The staples made it handy to remove fictional
> pages after the fact after dreaming up a plausible legal description of
> how you got from A to B that matched time stamped materials like fuel or
> toll receipts. That was then.
>
> https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/16099-electronic-logging-device.html
>
> Now they know where you are, how fast you're moving, if you're taking
> curves a little too aggressively, whether you're taking your breaks, and
> so forth. Of course your route is logged so they know if you're dodging
> scales.
>
> Over and above that if you have a hazardous materials endorsement you need
> a DHS security check. Most trucking companies won't hire you without the
> HazMat endorsement. I never had many hazmat loads but seeming benign stuff
> like house paint can fall in the category so the company wants the
> flexibility.
>
> On the plus side if you have placards for Poison or Explosives they give
> you plenty of room at truck stops.
>

I'll always remember this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Alfaques_disaster

The Los Alfaques disaster was caused by the explosion of a road tanker
near a holiday campsite on 11 July 1978 in Alcanar, Spain. The exploding
truck, which was carrying 23 tons of highly flammable liquefied
propylene, killed 215 people and severely burned 200 more. Several
individuals from the company that owned the vehicle were prosecuted for
criminal negligence. The disaster resulted in new legislation in Spain,
restricting the transit of vehicles carrying dangerous cargo through
populated areas to night time only.

Most of the victims were on holiday from West Germany and some other
European countries, and who were staying at the Los Alfaques seaside
campground. The site, which is located at km 159 on the N-340 national
road, is 2 kilometres (1.2 mi) south of the town of Sant Carles de la
Ràpita.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 1/2/25 4:29 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 16:11:11 -0500, -hh wrote:
>
>>
>> For example, good luck finding a 1/2" power drill for sale new today for
>> just $100 which will last for even 10 years of use, let alone his
>> "25-50" claim: the days of bulletproof all metal body Craftsman or
>> Black & Decker power tools are long since gone.
>>
>
> I don't need "luck". I purchased a Milwaukee 1/2" for about $100
> (maybe more maybe less). Milwaukee power tools are renowned throughout
> the industrial trades as being perhaps the ultimate in quality.

Yeah, Milwaukee's good, but they're not $100.

Grainger's price is $187+:

<https://www.grainger.com/product/3DU39>

Of course, you're free to go buy from someplace else, where you're
taking a risk on codeshares or counterfeits ...

.... as well as to post the receipt to substantiate your price claim.

> Furthermore, all metal body construction was abandoned long ago due
> to the shock hazards. The durable polymers that are now used are more
> than an adequate substitute.

Oh, I'm quite aware of that, because the hand-me-down that I got had to
get tossed at <40 years age because it was shorting out to the body. I
used it for awhile wearing workgloves before getting fed up and a 1/2"
Craftsman- it lasted only around 15 years before it died. These days, I
look to Dewalt, Bosch or Makita as first string.

> But this is all totally superfluous. The main point of the OP is that
> commercial software companies can easily produce software that can
> last decades, if not forever, but such software would literally destroy
> them as a business entity. Therefore they are forced into extortionate
> practices just to keep alive.

Depends on the use case, as well as the business model. For example,
there's code that's been use for ~50 years but its not been static the
entire time: there's invariably places for improvement & patches.

> FOSS, OTOH, has no such ridiculous concerns.

If that were truly a characteristic unique to FOSS, then Linux
(including Android) would never have had any security patch updates.

-hh

On 2025-01-02 12:20, D wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> On 2025-01-01 23:00, D wrote:
>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2025-01-01 12:43, D wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 05:11:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to
>>>>>>> drive or
>>>>>>> for some other reason.  What I do notice is that many people who
>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>> BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the
>>>>>>> driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>> lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
>>>>>>> exasperated
>>>>>>> hand gestures at those of us who don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I was trucking I was amused by BMW drivers who tried to play
>>>>>> chicken
>>>>>> with a 65' long 18 wheeled vehicle outweighing them by about 75,000
>>>>>> pounds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That reminds me... when I was in spain once, a big truck didn't
>>>>> look out before changing lanes and almost pushed me off the road.
>>>>> He saw it in time though and apologized. I had an elevated pulse
>>>>> for a while.
>>>>
>>>> Was that recently, or long ago?
>>>
>>> Probably 2 or 3 years ago.
>>>
>>>> Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the
>>>> road. Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it
>>>> shows in their tempers. They drive around tired.
>>>
>>> Oh he definitely was very sorry about the incident, and as far as it
>>> is possible for two humans to communicate wordlessly through windows,
>>> my feeling was that he deeply sorry and apologetic about the
>>> incident, so no shadow on that man.
>>
>> Well, anybody can make mistakes :-)
>>
>>>
>>>> They tend to change lane fast because otherwise a car comes and
>>>> impedes it. This forces the incoming traffic on the left lane to
>>>> brake and swear softly.
>>>
>>> Yes, exactly what happened... semi-hard break and soft swearing. ;)
>>
>>
>> Once I overtook a lorry that had a wheel... dunno how to describe. It
>> had burst, part of the rubber was lost, and the rest of the rubber was
>> spinning loosely, still thankfully retained. I was amazed, did not
>> know what to do. I had passengers. I just speed past the danger. It
>> was very early in the morning.
>>
>> I still do not know what I should had done. Probably pull back and
>> phone 112.
>
> I drive most often i south-eastern spain and I find spanish highways
> excellent! Spain should designate some areas without speed limit. In
> fact, there's a private highway that has very little traffic, since it
> cost 10 euros or so to enter the stretch of road, and it is so straight
> it could easily accomodate no speed limit! =) In fact, once, when I was
> happily driving around 165 in a little Fiat 500, a Mercedes overtook me.
> He must have been driving around 240 or so.

There some terrible highways around here. There is one, the RM-1 where
the ground has shifted, so badly that if you pass doing 120Km/h your
horns will make holes in the roof. Bumps on the road surface.

Instead of repairing them, they limited the speed to 100 or less.

<https://www.google.es/maps/@37.9363242,-0.9704533,11z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D>

You may notice that it is not connected to other highways on the north
end. They are still arguing who is going to pay, for a decade or so.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 16:50:09 -0500, -hh wrote:

>
> ... as well as to post the receipt to substantiate your price claim.
>

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

That's not the point of this thread.

>
> Oh, I'm quite aware of that,
>

Oh sure, sure, sure.

If I had not indicated that obvious fact then you would have
never indicated your "awareness."

You must think that you are playing with stupid children,
otherwise you wouldn't play at all.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

>
> Depends on the use case, as well as the business model.
>

No it doesn't.

>
> there's invariably places for improvement & patches.
>

Only regarding the UI and/or security.

Neither or which have any bearing on the original code.

>>
>> FOSS, OTOH, has no such ridiculous concerns.
>
> If that were truly a characteristic unique to FOSS, then Linux
> (including Android) would never have had any security patch updates.
>

As I already indicated, "security" issues have no bearing on the
original code. They are at the very best totally optional.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

-hh wrote:

> (snipped, unread)

The lying attacker -highhorse lashing-out after getting his ass handed
to him for the umpteenth time?

--
'Basically, the COLA Attitude towards IP can be summarized as follows:
"When it is my IP it is good, but when it is anyone else's IP it is
evil (and OK to steal)."' - lying asshole "-hh", lying shamelessly

On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> ... That was when cars had real bumpers and frames so the actual
> damage dropped off rapidly.

Ahh, the days of the 5mph bumper: DoT regulatiuons required that new
cars must have bumpers that would allow a 5 mph hit without structural
damage to the car. Carter years?

Then came the new car designs with crumple zones, and that was the end
of that.

On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
>
> What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?

The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
complain about "woke tyranny".

On 1/2/25 7:25 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 22:38:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> The Los Alfaques disaster was caused by the explosion of a road tanker
>> near a holiday campsite on 11 July 1978 in Alcanar, Spain. The exploding
>> truck, which was carrying 23 tons of highly flammable liquefied
>> propylene, killed 215 people and severely burned 200 more.
>
> https://cbs6albany.com/news/local/60th-anniversary-of-1962-berlin-ny-
> tragedy-explosion
>
> That was nowhere near the scale. Most of the small towns only had
> volunteer fire departments but they also had a mutual aid system. The
> siren would blow and the volunteers would drive to the fire hall to get
> the equipment and find out where the fire was. My father and I were
> swimming when sirens went off all over and we knew it was something big.
>
> Both routes 2 or 7 are winding mountain roads but the one he found himself
> on is a real goat trail. It will never be known if he ran out of luck or
> made a conscious decision at the point where he crashed but a quarter mile
> or so downhill is a quaint little town square with a monument in the
> middle of it that you wouldn't want to negotiate faster than 25 mph in a
> passenger car.
>
> I've been places like that where once you've committed to the road you
> can't turn around or back up. No fun.

Berlin, NY. .. No wonder you listen to country music. Goes well with
hearing cows moo 24x7.

On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 01:46:39 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

> Ahh, the days of the 5mph bumper: DoT regulatiuons required that new
> cars must have bumpers that would allow a 5 mph hit without structural
> damage to the car. Carter years?

Can't blame Jimmy for that one. It all started in '71, so Nixon years.

> Then came the new car designs with crumple zones, and that was the end
> of that.

A kid with a plow on his pickup made an illegal left turn and hit my
Toyota. Neither of us were doing much more than 20 mph. No injuries, no
air bags, and since I was only a mile and a half from home I drove the car
back telling the cop to call off the wrecker.

When the guy from the auto body place selected by the insurance company
came to pick it up, he took a quick look and said 'totaled'. I thought it
was mostly plastic cosmetics but the frame had crumbled.

On 1/2/25 10:05 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 01:46:39 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> Ahh, the days of the 5mph bumper: DoT regulatiuons required that new
>> cars must have bumpers that would allow a 5 mph hit without structural
>> damage to the car. Carter years?
>
> Can't blame Jimmy for that one. It all started in '71, so Nixon years.
>
>> Then came the new car designs with crumple zones, and that was the end
>> of that.
>
> A kid with a plow on his pickup made an illegal left turn and hit my
> Toyota. Neither of us were doing much more than 20 mph. No injuries, no
> air bags, and since I was only a mile and a half from home I drove the car
> back telling the cop to call off the wrecker.
>
> When the guy from the auto body place selected by the insurance company
> came to pick it up, he took a quick look and said 'totaled'. I thought it
> was mostly plastic cosmetics but the frame had crumbled.

Find an old International Harvester truck ... SOLID
steel all through. Parts may be tricky though ...