Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> There are apps for both Android and Windows that use the local wi-fi to
>> transfer files; e.g., LocalSend. Google came out with their Quick Share
>> (renamed from Nearby Share) app for Android and Windows. Requires
>> Windows 10 x64, or later.
>>
>> https://blog.google/products/android/nearby-share-windows-android/
>> https://www.android.com/better-together/quick-share-app/
>>
>> No Internet is involved. No external servers are involved. Just wi-fi
>> transfer between devices. The 2nd article says Quick Share is already
>> installed on Android 6+, but I've not seen it. Says I have to setup
>> "device visibility" in my Google account (for the phone and desktop to
>> see each other). I've not yet tried local wi-fi file transfer since the
>> USB cable is so easy for local transfer. For remote file transfer,
>> there are the slow cloud services.
>
> (On my (Samsung Galaxy A51) Android 13 phone,) I don't see Quick Share
> as an app on my app pages. I only see it when I select something (file,
> folder, etc.) and then tap 'Share'. Then 'Quick Share' is one of the
> share options.
>
> On the Windows side, 'Quick Share from Google' is a Windows program
> (in C:\Program Files\Google\NearbyShare), not a Windows 'app'.
>
> I use Quick Share if I only have to transfer a single file or a few
> files, a folder, etc.. For larger transfers, I use the USB cable.
>
> 'Cloud'!? 'Internet'!? What *are* those!?

I called it an app, because Google did. Haven't use it, so didn't know
if it was a Win32 program, or a UWP app. I rarely share, so I didn't
realize Quick Share was already an option. Never noticed it, or didn't
know what it was, so ignored it along with the myriad of other choices.
Just tested, and, yep, there it is. Thanks for sharing. ;-)

Confusing is the same product name, Quick Share, from Samsung
(https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9pctgdfxvzlj). Seems to have the
same OS requirements, so maybe it's the same program, except Samsung
says theirs only works with Samsung devices. Both have you download a
..exe to install. Not sure why both wi-fi and Bluetooth are required. I
would think just one wireless method would suffice. The Samsung one
gets as many negative votes as positive.

On 21 Dec 2024 12:52:51 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:

> If you have a Mac there's AirDrop, where you can 'share' things directly
> from apps on the iPhone to the Mac, but if you're not on a Mac then you have
> to use something else.

Android has an AirDrop equivalent that works on all operating systems.
I think it's called ShareDrop.

On 2024-12-21 12:15, Andrew wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 18:37:29 +0000 :
>
>> Good Lord, pal; that article is from 2010, moving from Itunes 9 to 10.
>> I'm on 12 +++
>
> Your argument against iTunes bloatware that it's "old" bloatware is absurd.
> Apple hasn't updated iTunes in years - yet you're still using it today.

Wow. You can't even read.

Apple's latest update to iTunes for Windows was released on exactly two
months ago today:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_iTunes#iTunes_12>

"12.13.4.4"

>
> If you're using iTunes on Windows (which even Apple has deprecated on Apple
> devices), it's still bloatware whether or not it's "old" or new bloatware.
> Historically, the canonical example of unneccessary bloat was 'iTunes'.
> It literally subtracts functionality (see the images proving that fact).

What "images"?

And "even Apple has deprecated"? Who OTHER than Apple could deprecate
Apple software?

On 21.12.24 19:44, Ed Cryer wrote:
> A lot of people jail-break their iPads; but millions don't. They don't
> know how to; or don't have the time to learn; or, perhaps, can put up
> with the prison shadow while they enjoy the benefits of the Pads.
>
> And Apple, of course, say they're protecting the innocent layman from
> the machinations of the criminal hackers.
> A moral dilemma. Whose side are you on?

Listen. I use all desktop OSs and iOS and Android every day as an
instructor for two non-profit organisations.

You try to parrot what other people are claiming to know but have just
unfounded prejudices but no knowledge.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 2024-12-21 12:24, Andrew wrote:
> Theo wrote on 21 Dec 2024 12:52:51 +0000 (GMT) :
>
>>> I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone, and I see articles
>>> about apps that let ppl share files with their PCs, and I'm wondering
>>> why is there such an app? If I plug an iPhone into my PC's USB port,
>>> do I not get access to the iPhone's filesysten?
>>
>> iPhones don't have a filesystem.
>>
>> Well, of course they do, but they really don't want you to see it.
>>
>> The way iOS works is it's very app-centric.  Apps own their own
>> buckets of
>> data which only they can see.  The way to move things between apps is the
>> 'Share' function, rather than app B opening a file saved by app A.
>>
>> Of course files do exist outside the iOS world, so places like Photos,
>> Videos, Music and Downloads have some kind of specialness in that apps
>> can
>> ask to open files from there (not generically - a photo app can't see
>> Music).  But apps can't open files from other random places, and
>> especially
>> not files in the buckets belonging to other apps.
>
> Has anyone here ever *seen* the iOS DCIM file system organization?
>          *If not, you're in for a big surprise!*
>
> Files all over the place, in almost randomly named folders (such as
> _201901) with randomly named image file names (such as IMG1234.JPG).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/PJ4hWyS0/Apple-Iphone.jpg>

How are those "randomly named".

It appears that they're named in the absolutely ordinary way of
sequentially numbered.

>
> No other operating system refuses to allow you to name your image files.
> Just Apple.
>
> Meanwhile, every other operating system (except Apple's) allows the user to
> define how they want photo images to be named (using a sensible convention)
> <https://i.postimg.cc/zfgrt8dC/Samsung.jpg>

That doesn't show any proof that it's user configurable. It appears it's
simply a YYYYMMDD_HHMMSS naming convention.

And that seems pretty redundant as files already have
creation/modification date/time metadata associated with them.

:-)

>
> Some day Apple will care about the consumer. But that day hasn't arrived
> yet.

LOL!

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
[...]
> I called it an app, because Google did. Haven't use it, so didn't know
> if it was a Win32 program, or a UWP app. I rarely share, so I didn't
> realize Quick Share was already an option. Never noticed it, or didn't
> know what it was, so ignored it along with the myriad of other choices.
> Just tested, and, yep, there it is. Thanks for sharing. ;-)
>
> Confusing is the same product name, Quick Share, from Samsung
> (https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9pctgdfxvzlj). Seems to have the
> same OS requirements, so maybe it's the same program, except Samsung
> says theirs only works with Samsung devices.

Samsung *phones* (and tablets). The *Windows* (i.e. 'PC') side also
mentions "Windows PC with Intel Bluetooth/Wi-Fi released by other
manufacturers"

I think the comment

"Quick Share for Windows PC is currently only available for Samsung
Galaxy devices. Other Android devices will be supported in the future."

is just CYA. And it says "available", whatever that means, and implies
that other devices are not supported, not that they don't work.

> Both have you download a
> .exe to install.

As I wrote, 'Quick Share from Google' is a normal Windows program.
From the looks of it, it seems the Samsung product is a UWP app. Hence
both are available. (Aren't all things in the Microsoft Store UWP apps?
Or are there also normal Windows programs in that store?)

> Not sure why both wi-fi and Bluetooth are required. I
> would think just one wireless method would suffice.

Bluetooth is used to find nearby devices. I.e. a device may be near,
but as yet unknown to the other side. 'Wi-Fi' should be read as a
network connection, but because most Windows systems do not have a
mobile data connection, I guess they only mention Wi-Fi.

> The Samsung one
> gets as many negative votes as positive.

BTW, I have a Samsung phone, but on the Windows side, I use the 'Quick
Share from Google' program. I didn't know there was a Samsung Windows
app, and even if I did, I generally prefer real Windows programs over
apps.

BTW2, 'Quick Share from Google' is not "a Win32 program", but a Win64
program. As said, it lives in ' C:\Program Files\Google\NearbyShare',
not in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\...'.

Alan wrote:
>
> Apple's latest update to iTunes for Windows was released on exactly two
> months ago today:
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_iTunes#iTunes_12>
>
> "12.13.4.4"
>
>

Quite so. And notice how large it is; 38MB.

Ed

B00ze <B00ze64@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good day.
>
> I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone, and I see articles
> about apps that let ppl share files with their PCs, and I'm wondering
> why is there such an app? If I plug an iPhone into my PC's USB port, do
> I not get access to the iPhone's filesysten?

Others have already answered your specific questions.

As to "I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone": As you're a
Windows user ('PC' != Windows), I would advise against buying/using an
iPhone.

The Android-Windows integration is not great, but there is - as you
have found - some. For iPhone-Windows, there's hardly anything, except
for the iTunes abomination.

Granted, the Windows 'Phone Link' app apparently supports Android
smartphones and iPhones. But with the iPhones being 'closed' and the
Android smartphones being (more) 'open', I think with an iPhone you'll
be in for a disappointment.

OTOH, if you intend to use the iPhone mostly by itself and hardly need
to exchange anything (other than photos from its camera) with your
Windows system, by all means go for it.

FWIW, I've been confronted with the iPhone-Windows limitations. OTOH,
some of my loved ones are an all-Apple houshold and they are very, very
pleased with it, including the *HP* :-) printer.

On Sun, 12/22/2024 1:57 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>>
>> Apple's latest update to iTunes for Windows was released on exactly two months ago today:
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_iTunes#iTunes_12>
>>
>> "12.13.4.4"
>>
>>
>
> Quite so. And notice how large it is; 38MB.
>
> Ed
>

I think the earlier iTunes had Quicktime for video
playback of music videos or something.

Apple no longer wanted to invest as much in
security updates for the "fleet" inside
the installer... so they simplified the design
and the feature set a bit. That's why a package
today can be smaller than some previous ones.
And it might not be playing movies.

Back in the day, the .msi files inside the installer,
were a bit independent of one another. You may have
had the option, of picking apart the installer and
only installing some of the .msi. But Apple put
a stop to that, by "cross-coupling" or purposely
making dependencies between the installations,
to ensure they all got installed.

One of the packages was Bonjour. Bonjour is open
sourced, so anyone can look at the source code.
There are a number of name server softwares,
and likely, some duplication of effort. If you
run iTunes, you may end up with one of those
running as a service on a machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonjour_%28software%29

mDNSResponder

This is the kind of software, where you can use 7ZIP
to inspect inside the thing, for the "components".
And there is an MSI unpacker available, if you want
to do further detective work, such as discover
the name of the DVD burner software inside iTunes :-)
That's a third party plugin.

It's like going to the zoo and discovering
they have animals in there.

Paul

Paul wrote on Sun, 22 Dec 2024 17:07:49 -0500 :

> It's like going to the zoo and discovering
> they have animals in there

Given Apple has not only the absolute worst bugfix support in the industry
(which is why iOS is the most exploited mobile phone in history!)...
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Unfortunately, the Apple iTunes bloatware abomination on Windows is even
worse than anyone can imagine...

Not so much for its unnecessary forced bloat (such as those Paul already
noted) nor for Apple's incessant huge rampant security holes...

But also because when you install Apple iTunes on Windows, you actually
*lose* functionality!

For example:
1. This is the version of SharePod that I used on Windows 10:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod001.jpg>
2. The SharePod interface gives you unrestricted access to MP3 files:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod002.jpg>
3. Here we batch copy (& rename) files from iPod to Windows 10:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod003.jpg>
4. Resulting in an organized archive of all files on any number of iPods:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod004.jpg>
5. Populate the iPod by syncing with any number of Windows MP3 files:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod005.jpg>
6. If desired, the ID3 tags can all be batch organized to your liking:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod006.jpg>
7. With the result that you have unrestricted access to your iPod:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod007.jpg>

However... the very instant you install Apple's iTunes abomination...

*EVERYTHING above STOPS WORKING!* (iTunes removes the functionality!)

Just like Apple removed the aux jack so that you'd have to scramble to
figure out a way to purchase it back - iTunes *removes functionality* too!

<https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg> itunes removes functionality

Frank Slootweg wrote on 22 Dec 2024 20:19:19 GMT :

> B00ze <B00ze64@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Good day.
>>
>> I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone, and I see articles
>> about apps that let ppl share files with their PCs, and I'm wondering
>> why is there such an app? If I plug an iPhone into my PC's USB port, do
>> I not get access to the iPhone's filesysten?
>
> Others have already answered your specific questions.
>
> As to "I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone": As you're a
> Windows user ('PC' != Windows), I would advise against buying/using an
> iPhone.
>
> The Android-Windows integration is not great, but there is - as you
> have found - some. For iPhone-Windows, there's hardly anything, except
> for the iTunes abomination.
>
> Granted, the Windows 'Phone Link' app apparently supports Android
> smartphones and iPhones. But with the iPhones being 'closed' and the
> Android smartphones being (more) 'open', I think with an iPhone you'll
> be in for a disappointment.
>
> OTOH, if you intend to use the iPhone mostly by itself and hardly need
> to exchange anything (other than photos from its camera) with your
> Windows system, by all means go for it.
>
> FWIW, I've been confronted with the iPhone-Windows limitations. OTOH,
> some of my loved ones are an all-Apple houshold and they are very, very
> pleased with it, including the *HP* :-) printer.

Given Apple's strategy is to hinder interoperability with other systems...

I must echo Frank's sentiment that the only people who are on Windows
already switching from Android to iOS, are those who are going to be sorry.

There are reasons why Apple's products are created as dumb terminals.
Apple's ecosystem is designed to make things only work in their ecosystem.

As a result, nothing in Apple's ecosystem actually works in the real world.

From what I read (doesn't guarantee accuracy since it was on the Web) is
that Google's Quick Share was derived from Samsung's Quick Share, but
Google made their variant compliant with more than just Samsung phones.

On 2024-12-22 17:01, Andrew wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote on 22 Dec 2024 20:19:19 GMT :
>
>> B00ze <B00ze64@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Good day.
>>>
>>> I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone, and I see articles
>>> about apps that let ppl share files with their PCs, and I'm wondering
>>> why is there such an app? If I plug an iPhone into my PC's USB port,
>>> do I not get access to the iPhone's filesysten?
>>
>>   Others have already answered your specific questions.
>>
>>   As to "I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone": As you're a
>> Windows user ('PC' != Windows), I would advise against buying/using an
>> iPhone.
>>
>>   The Android-Windows integration is not great, but there is - as you
>> have found - some. For iPhone-Windows, there's hardly anything, except
>> for the iTunes abomination.
>>
>>   Granted, the Windows 'Phone Link' app apparently supports Android
>> smartphones and iPhones. But with the iPhones being 'closed' and the
>> Android smartphones being (more) 'open', I think with an iPhone you'll
>> be in for a disappointment.
>>
>>   OTOH, if you intend to use the iPhone mostly by itself and hardly need
>> to exchange anything (other than photos from its camera) with your
>> Windows system, by all means go for it.
>>
>>   FWIW, I've been confronted with the iPhone-Windows limitations. OTOH,
>> some of my loved ones are an all-Apple houshold and they are very, very
>> pleased with it, including the *HP* :-) printer.
>
> Given Apple's strategy is to hinder interoperability with other systems...
> I must echo Frank's sentiment that the only people who are on Windows
> already switching from Android to iOS, are those who are going to be sorry.
>
> There are reasons why Apple's products are created as dumb terminals.
> Apple's ecosystem is designed to make things only work in their ecosystem.
>
> As a result, nothing in Apple's ecosystem actually works in the real world.

Amazing.

Every thing you said... ...is wrong.

On 2024-12-22 16:56, Andrew wrote:
> Paul wrote on Sun, 22 Dec 2024 17:07:49 -0500 :
>
>> It's like going to the zoo and discovering
>> they have animals in there
>
> Given Apple has not only the absolute worst bugfix support in the industry
> (which is why iOS is the most exploited mobile phone in history!)...
> <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
> Unfortunately, the Apple iTunes bloatware abomination on Windows is even
> worse than anyone can imagine...
> Not so much for its unnecessary forced bloat (such as those Paul already
> noted) nor for Apple's incessant huge rampant security holes...
> But also because when you install Apple iTunes on Windows, you actually
> *lose* functionality!
>
> For example:
> 1. This is the version of SharePod that I used on Windows 10:
>   <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod001.jpg>
> 2. The SharePod interface gives you unrestricted access to MP3 files:
>   <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod002.jpg>
> 3. Here we batch copy (& rename) files from iPod to Windows 10:
>   <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod003.jpg>
> 4. Resulting in an organized archive of all files on any number of iPods:
>   <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod004.jpg>
> 5. Populate the iPod by syncing with any number of Windows MP3 files:
>   <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod005.jpg>
> 6. If desired, the ID3 tags can all be batch organized to your liking:
>   <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod006.jpg>
> 7. With the result that you have unrestricted access to your iPod:
>   <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ipod007.jpg>
>
> However... the very instant you install Apple's iTunes abomination...
> *EVERYTHING above STOPS WORKING!* (iTunes removes the functionality!)

Funny the folks at Sharepod disagree:

'If you have a regular iPod such as a Classic, Nano, or Shuffle, it's
recommended to check the box to "Enable Disk Use" in iTunes on the
Summary tab for it and click on Apply. That setting will help your iPod
stay connected in Sharepod and iTunes.

​Sharepod uses the iTunes interface to connect with an iPhone, iPad, or
iPod, so if your device is appearing in iTunes without any errors, it
should also appear in Sharepod. '

>
> Just like Apple removed the aux jack so that you'd have to scramble to
> figure out a way to purchase it back - iTunes *removes functionality* too!
>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg> itunes removes functionality

Seems like maybe user incompetence...

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> From what I read (doesn't guarantee accuracy since it was on the Web) is
> that Google's Quick Share was derived from Samsung's Quick Share, but
> Google made their variant compliant with more than just Samsung phones.

Yes, Google's Nearby Share merged with Samsung's Quick Share:

'Quick Share lets you send to other devices directly from the Android
sharing menu'
<https://9to5google.com/2024/02/01/android-quick-share-direct-share-menu/>

As to what is/does what, there are at least four components:

- Android:

- *My* Quick Share app (and related QS Agent and QS Connectivity apps)
is from Samsung. Probably because 1) Samsung Quick Share predates
the merge and 2) I have a Samsung phone (since 4+ years).

- I'm sure Google Pixel phones and other non-Samsung phones will have
the Google Quick Share app

- Windows:
As mentioned before:

- Google 'Quick Share from Google' Win64 *program*,

- Samsung 'Quick Share for Windows PC' UWP *app*.

N.B. 'Proof' of the merge: (As mentioned before,) The ''Quick Share
from Google' Win64 program lives in "C:\Program Files\Google\
NearbyShare\nearby_share.exe". I.e. the external/icon name is
'Quick Share from Google', but the under-the-hood name is still
NearbyShare\nearby_share.exe.

Frank Slootweg wrote on 23 Dec 2024 14:40:32 GMT :

> N.B. 'Proof' of the merge: (As mentioned before,) The ''Quick Share
> from Google' Win64 program lives in "C:\Program Files\Google\
> NearbyShare\nearby_share.exe". I.e. the external/icon name is
> 'Quick Share from Google', but the under-the-hood name is still
> NearbyShare\nearby_share.exe.

I'm not gonna look it up but last I checked in gory detail, the *MICROSOFT*
app on the Google Play Store still had "samsung" in the package name, but
that's only from memory so I could be wrong on that.
--
We've all discussed this in the past so if people want to know more, they
can start with where we last left off in the past for a head start (not
you, Frank, but the others who don't read and learn from every post in the
newsgroup like I do).

Thank you all for your replies, I shall consider this if I ever think I
want an iPhone again.

Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / B00ze64@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo When cheese gets it's picture taken, what does it say?