On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-12-15 02:56, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Assembling hardware and installing OSes...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...that's the anomaly, not the norm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spoken like a bona fide Apple sheep. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spoken like someone who knows the statistics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most people...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...the VAST majority...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...buy a COMPUTER...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
>>>>
>>>> People who want real value will do what I did.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry (and I know this will come as a shock to you), but:
>>>
>>> People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
>>> stupid.
>>>
>>> I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
>>> thinking, but it's still true.
>>
>>
>> It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math.  And I'm not calling
>> you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
>> Apple, on value, if you build yourself.
>
> And if you don't value you your own time.
>
> Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.

Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".

Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to
you by coming over and mowing my lawn.

Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves ..
or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.

-hh

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-12-15 02:56, Joel wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
>>>> stupid.
>>>>
>>>> I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
>>>> thinking, but it's still true.
>>>
>>> It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math.  And I'm not calling
>>> you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
>>> Apple, on value, if you build [a computer] yourself.
>>
>> And if you don't value you your own time.
>>
>> Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
>
>Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".
>
>Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to
>you by coming over and mowing my lawn.
>
>Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves ..
>or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
>flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.

Labor and the time it takes is just part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine. But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
every minute I put in, assembling it.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 12/15/24 3:48 PM, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>> On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-15 02:56, Joel wrote:
>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
>>>>> stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
>>>>> thinking, but it's still true.
>>>>
>>>> It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math.  And I'm not calling
>>>> you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
>>>> Apple, on value, if you build [a computer] yourself.
>>>
>>> And if you don't value you your own time.
>>>
>>> Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
>>
>> Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".
>>
>> Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to
>> you by coming over and mowing my lawn.
>>
>> Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves ..
>> or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
>> flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.
>
>
> Labor and the time it takes is just part of getting a good PC, you
> have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
> fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
> worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
> machine.

When one buys a prebuilt, those design decision costs are amortized
across many thousands of units instead of just your one white box.

As I said weeks ago, a colleague used to run his own small business
assembling white boxes - - he shut it down years ago because the OEMs
became price-competitive and there was no margin left for him, even as
he was typically building a dozen identical units at a shot.

Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?

> But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
> to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
> not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
> of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
> every minute I put in, assembling it.

No, its quite different, because you're not assembling from a set of
instructions & a single box of parts that Ikea designed: you went to
NewEgg/etc and semi-randomly chose stuff that you then *hoped* would all
fit together and work: you took on that entire risk onto yourself, and
in context, saved essentially zero dollars.

-hh

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>On 12/15/24 3:48 PM, Joel wrote:
>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
>>>
>>> Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".
>>>
>>> Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to
>>> you by coming over and mowing my lawn.
>>>
>>> Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves ..
>>> or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
>>> flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.
>>
>> Labor and the time it takes is just part of getting a good PC, you
>> have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
>> fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
>> worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
>> machine.
>
>When one buys a prebuilt, those design decision costs are amortized
>across many thousands of units instead of just your one white box.
>
>As I said weeks ago, a colleague used to run his own small business
>assembling white boxes - - he shut it down years ago because the OEMs
>became price-competitive and there was no margin left for him, even as
>he was typically building a dozen identical units at a shot.

Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd
go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a
motherboard like the one I bought as a part.

>Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
>your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
>just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?

The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.

>> But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
>> to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
>> not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
>> of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
>> every minute I put in, assembling it.
>
>No, its quite different, because you're not assembling from a set of
>instructions & a single box of parts that Ikea designed: you went to
>NewEgg/etc and semi-randomly chose stuff that you then *hoped* would all
>fit together and work: you took on that entire risk onto yourself, and
>in context, saved essentially zero dollars.

If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
nearly as good. That's undeniable.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some
news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:

> On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
>>>> On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
>>>> posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
>>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components
>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to
>>>>>> have a little of them?
>>>>>
>>>>> And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
>>>>
>>>> He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
>>>
>>> Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
>>>
>>> ...no wait.
>>
>>
>> It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
>> having a fuckin' Mac.
>
> They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
>
> ...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
> there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
> Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac. Oopsie for the
> l33t g33ks.

modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
filtering. if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must use a
windoze or linux platform.

On 15 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:eadtljhrqtip9087qbsf13d6cc1djnrld2@4ax.com:

> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Assembling hardware and installing OSes...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...that's the anomaly, not the norm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spoken like a bona fide Apple sheep. :)
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>> Spoken like someone who knows the statistics.
>>>>
>>>> Most people...
>>>>
>>>> ...the VAST majority...
>>>>
>>>> ...buy a COMPUTER...
>>>>
>>>> ...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
>>>
>>> People who want real value will do what I did.
>>
>>I'm sorry (and I know this will come as a shock to you), but:
>>
>>People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
>>stupid.
>>
>>I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
>>thinking, but it's still true.
>
>
> It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
> you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
> Apple, on value, if you build yourself.

that's true. there are also fewer compatibility limits and issues.

On 2024-12-15 14:06, hank wrote:
> On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some
> news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
>>>>> On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
>>>>> posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components
>>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to
>>>>>>> have a little of them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
>>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
>>>>>
>>>>> He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
>>>>
>>>> Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
>>>>
>>>> ...no wait.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
>>> having a fuckin' Mac.
>>
>> They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
>>
>> ...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
>> there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
>> Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac. Oopsie for the
>> l33t g33ks.
>
> modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
> filtering. if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must use a
> windoze or linux platform.
>

What "meaningful" things can you not accomplish on a Mac?

On 12/15/2024 3:41 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-12-15 14:06, hank wrote:
>> On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some
>> news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
>>>>>> On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
>>>>>> posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components
>>>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to
>>>>>>>> have a little of them?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
>>>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He's not running any iTrash junk.  That's good enough for 51%.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...no wait.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
>>>> having a fuckin' Mac.
>>>
>>> They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
>>>
>>> ...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
>>> there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
>>> Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac.  Oopsie for the
>>> l33t g33ks.
>>
>> modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
>> filtering.  if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must
>> use a
>> windoze or linux platform.
>>
>
> What "meaningful" things can you not accomplish on a Mac?

Asking that, it's obvious you've never worked in an advanced IT support
role.

On 12/15/24 5:01 PM, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>> On 12/15/24 3:48 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>>> On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".
>>>>
>>>> Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to
>>>> you by coming over and mowing my lawn.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves ..
>>>> or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
>>>> flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.
>>>
>>> Labor and the time it takes is just part of getting a good PC, you
>>> have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
>>> fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
>>> worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
>>> machine.
>>
>> When one buys a prebuilt, those design decision costs are amortized
>> across many thousands of units instead of just your one white box.
>>
>> As I said weeks ago, a colleague used to run his own small business
>> assembling white boxes - - he shut it down years ago because the OEMs
>> became price-competitive and there was no margin left for him, even as
>> he was typically building a dozen identical units at a shot.
>
>
> Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd
> go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a
> motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
>
>
>> Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
>> your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
>
>
> The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
> my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.

*stomp Apologies for a typo.

We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp",
then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:

<https://asahilinux.org/about/>

>>> But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
>>> to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
>>> not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
>>> of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
>>> every minute I put in, assembling it.
>>
>> No, its quite different, because you're not assembling from a set of
>> instructions & a single box of parts that Ikea designed: you went to
>> NewEgg/etc and semi-randomly chose stuff that you then *hoped* would all
>> fit together and work: you took on that entire risk onto yourself, and
>> in context, saved essentially zero dollars.
>
> If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
> nearly as good. That's undeniable.

Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten more...

....and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is
an alternative.

-hh

On 12/15/24 5:06 PM, hank wrote:
> On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some
> news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
>>>>> On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
>>>>> posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components
>>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to
>>>>>>> have a little of them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
>>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
>>>>>
>>>>> He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
>>>>
>>>> Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
>>>>
>>>> ...no wait.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
>>> having a fuckin' Mac.
>>
>> They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
>>
>> ...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
>> there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
>> Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac. Oopsie for the
>> l33t g33ks.
>
> modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
> filtering. if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must use a
> windoze or linux platform.

And I'm not unique in having run both of those OS's on Apple hardware.
Next excuse attempt, please!

-hh

On 12/15/24 10:10 PM, Duc Nguyen wrote:
> On 12/15/2024 3:41 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-12-15 14:06, hank wrote:
>>> On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some
>>> news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
>>>>>>> posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components
>>>>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to
>>>>>>>>> have a little of them?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
>>>>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's not running any iTrash junk.  That's good enough for 51%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...no wait.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
>>>>> having a fuckin' Mac.
>>>>
>>>> They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
>>>>
>>>> ...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
>>>> there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
>>>> Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac.  Oopsie for the
>>>> l33t g33ks.
>>>
>>> modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
>>> filtering.  if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must
>>> use a
>>> windoze or linux platform.
>>>
>>
>> What "meaningful" things can you not accomplish on a Mac?
>
> Asking that, it's obvious you've never worked in an advanced IT support
> role.

Oh, so we're expected to tail-wag-the-dog with a 0.1% niche while trying
to ignore the other 99.9% of productivity use cases?

That sort of attitude reminds me of an upper tier IT support guy who
claimed that Macs suck because they found that they were such PITA to
configure Ethernet by hand from the Unix command line ...

.... because their IT training kept it a secret the Mac Control Panel
(deviously disguised under the name of "Network") to easily make those
Ethernet settings.

When it was shown to them, their reply was: "Hmm, my training sucked".

-hh

On 2024-12-15 19:10, Duc Nguyen wrote:
> On 12/15/2024 3:41 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-12-15 14:06, hank wrote:
>>> On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some
>>> news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
>>>>>>> posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components
>>>>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to
>>>>>>>>> have a little of them?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
>>>>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's not running any iTrash junk.  That's good enough for 51%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...no wait.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
>>>>> having a fuckin' Mac.
>>>>
>>>> They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
>>>>
>>>> ...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
>>>> there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
>>>> Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac.  Oopsie for the
>>>> l33t g33ks.
>>>
>>> modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
>>> filtering.  if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must
>>> use a
>>> windoze or linux platform.
>>>
>>
>> What "meaningful" things can you not accomplish on a Mac?
>
> Asking that, it's obvious you've never worked in an advanced IT support
> role.

Answering like that, it's obvious you can't actually articulate an
answer to my question.

:-)

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>>> Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
>>> your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
>>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
>>
>> The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
>> my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
>
>*stomp Apologies for a typo.
>
>We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp",
>then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
>Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:
>
><https://asahilinux.org/about/>

A Mac mini purchased when I built my machine wouldn't be any faster
than what I have.

>> If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
>
>Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
>bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten more...
>
>...and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is
>an alternative.

I see Linux as the default OS, actually, it's M$ and Apple that are
proprietary, commercial platforms, consumerism, not real computing
enthusiasm.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 12/16/24 10:25 AM, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
>>>> your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
>>>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
>>>
>>> The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
>>> my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
>>
>> *stomp Apologies for a typo.
>>
>> We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp",
>> then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
>> Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:
>>
>> <https://asahilinux.org/about/>
>
>
> A Mac mini purchased when I built my machine wouldn't be any faster
> than what I have.

The 2020 mini model would have been cheaper.
The current mini model is faster & cheaper.

>>> If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
>>
>> Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
>> bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten more...
>>
>> ...and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is
>> an alternative.
>
> I see Linux as the default OS, actually, it's M$ and Apple that are
> proprietary, commercial platforms, consumerism, not real computing
> enthusiasm.

Yet that didn't stop you from buying & running on Windows OS for the
first ~2/3rds of the life of your current PC.

-hh

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>>>>> Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
>>>>> your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
>>>>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
>>>>
>>>> The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
>>>> my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
>>>
>>> *stomp Apologies for a typo.
>>>
>>> We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp",
>>> then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
>>> Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:
>>>
>>> <https://asahilinux.org/about/>
>>
>> A Mac mini purchased when I built my machine wouldn't be any faster
>> than what I have.
>
>The 2020 mini model would have been cheaper.
>The current mini model is faster & cheaper.

A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.

>>>> If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
>>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
>>>
>>> Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
>>> bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten more...
>>>
>>> ...and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is
>>> an alternative.
>>
>> I see Linux as the default OS, actually, it's M$ and Apple that are
>> proprietary, commercial platforms, consumerism, not real computing
>> enthusiasm.
>
>Yet that didn't stop you from buying & running on Windows OS for the
>first ~2/3rds of the life of your current PC.

I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. It
was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as
M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is
well.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-12-15 15:02, hank wrote:
> On 15 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
> news:eadtljhrqtip9087qbsf13d6cc1djnrld2@4ax.com:
>
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Assembling hardware and installing OSes...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...that's the anomaly, not the norm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spoken like a bona fide Apple sheep. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spoken like someone who knows the statistics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most people...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...the VAST majority...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...buy a COMPUTER...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
>>>>
>>>> People who want real value will do what I did.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry (and I know this will come as a shock to you), but:
>>>
>>> People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
>>> stupid.
>>>
>>> I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
>>> thinking, but it's still true.
>>
>>
>> It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
>> you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
>> Apple, on value, if you build yourself.
>
> that's true. there are also fewer compatibility limits and issues.
>

Such as?

On 12/16/24 12:02 PM, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
>>>>>> your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
>>>>>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
>>>>> my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
>>>>
>>>> *stomp Apologies for a typo.
>>>>
>>>> We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp",
>>>> then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
>>>> Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:
>>>>
>>>> <https://asahilinux.org/about/>
>>>
>>> A Mac mini purchased when I built my machine wouldn't be any faster
>>> than what I have.
>>
>> The 2020 mini model would have been cheaper.
>> The current mini model is faster & cheaper.
>
>
> A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.

That you have ... or that you need?

Case in point, you were asked awhile back about how much disk space your
PC took up when you first bought it, and how much it is taking up today.

Needless to say, you avoided ever providing an answer, but we do know
indirectly that your storage growth needs are less than 300GB/year.

>>>>> If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
>>>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
>>>>
>>>> Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
>>>> bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten more...
>>>>
>>>> ...and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is
>>>> an alternative.
>>>
>>> I see Linux as the default OS, actually, it's M$ and Apple that are
>>> proprietary, commercial platforms, consumerism, not real computing
>>> enthusiasm.
>>
>> Yet that didn't stop you from buying & running on Windows OS for the
>> first ~2/3rds of the life of your current PC.
>
>
> I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. It
> was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as
> M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is
> well.

Where this "it outgrew" claim lacks objective metrics to substantiate.

In the meantime, I've been doing fine with Windows OS for the past few
years running within just a 40GB partition.

-hh

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>> A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
>
>That you have ... or that you need?
>
>Case in point, you were asked awhile back about how much disk space your
>PC took up when you first bought it, and how much it is taking up today.
>
>Needless to say, you avoided ever providing an answer, but we do know
>indirectly that your storage growth needs are less than 300GB/year.

I'll never use up the 1 TB, that's kind of the point. The drive could
last many years. You want to have extra storage.

>> I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. It
>> was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as
>> M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is
>> well.
>
>Where this "it outgrew" claim lacks objective metrics to substantiate.
>
>In the meantime, I've been doing fine with Windows OS for the past few
>years running within just a 40GB partition.

It still ran, it just sucked, compared to how it was in earlier
periods. Linux is a refuge from M$.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-12-16 09:54, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>> A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
>>
>> That you have ... or that you need?
>>
>> Case in point, you were asked awhile back about how much disk space your
>> PC took up when you first bought it, and how much it is taking up today.
>>
>> Needless to say, you avoided ever providing an answer, but we do know
>> indirectly that your storage growth needs are less than 300GB/year.
>
>
> I'll never use up the 1 TB, that's kind of the point. The drive could
> last many years. You want to have extra storage.

And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and
effectively be an external drive.>

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>> I'll never use up the 1 TB [NVMe SSD], that's kind of the point. The drive could
>> last many years. You want to have extra storage.
>
>And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and
>effectively be an external drive.>

But then you have this dangling external device. I like to have it
inside the case.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-12-16 09:02, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
>>>>>> your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
>>>>>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
>>>>> my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
>>>>
>>>> *stomp Apologies for a typo.
>>>>
>>>> We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp",
>>>> then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
>>>> Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:
>>>>
>>>> <https://asahilinux.org/about/>
>>>
>>> A Mac mini purchased when I built my machine wouldn't be any faster
>>> than what I have.
>>
>> The 2020 mini model would have been cheaper.
>> The current mini model is faster & cheaper.
>
>
> A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.

Dude... ...you bought an i5 and it turned out to be the wrong one to
have bought when you discovered you couldn't make it work with a 4K monitor.

And if we benchmarked your i5 against a 2020 Mini... ...how would it fare?

>
>
>>>>> If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
>>>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
>>>>
>>>> Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
>>>> bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten more...
>>>>
>>>> ...and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is
>>>> an alternative.
>>>
>>> I see Linux as the default OS, actually, it's M$ and Apple that are
>>> proprietary, commercial platforms, consumerism, not real computing
>>> enthusiasm.
>>
>> Yet that didn't stop you from buying & running on Windows OS for the
>> first ~2/3rds of the life of your current PC.
>
>
> I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. It
> was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as
> M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is
> well.
No... ...Windows did NOT outgrow your hardware in 2-3 years...

....unless you bought the wrong hardware to begin with.

On 2024-12-16 11:13, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'll never use up the 1 TB [NVMe SSD], that's kind of the point. The drive could
>>> last many years. You want to have extra storage.
>>
>> And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and
>> effectively be an external drive.>
>
>
> But then you have this dangling external device. I like to have it
> inside the case.
"dangling"?

That's a very odd way to phrase it.

Having it inside the case is important if you have a laptop, but given
the size of external drives these days, almost completely irrelevant if
you have a desktop computer.

Does it bother you that your monitor is "dangling"?

Or your keyboard?

:-)

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>> A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
>
>Dude... ...you bought an i5 and it turned out to be the wrong one to
>have bought when you discovered you couldn't make it work with a 4K monitor.

How is that even remotely true? I didn't know I'd buy the 4K monitor,
it was a whimsical purchase when I saw the hot price. The Intel video
did support it theoretically, it just didn't work as well as the
NVIDIA card. Big fucking deal! I still got use out of the Intel
video while I was using the old monitor, and could put off buying a
video card.

>And if we benchmarked your i5 against a 2020 Mini... ...how would it fare?

Just fine, I'm sure. Maybe Apple's CPU is slightly faster, but would
I notice the difference?

>> I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. It
>> was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as
>> M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is
>> well.
>No... ...Windows did NOT outgrow your hardware in 2-3 years...
>
>...unless you bought the wrong hardware to begin with.

You really underestimate what M$ does. They have proven that they
support brand-new, high-end devices, in any real sense, that you can
boot their crapware on a smaller system doesn't mean it will perform
adequately, this is why Linux isn't just some oddball alternative,
it's the real deal.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>> I'll never use up the 1 TB [NVMe SSD], that's kind of the point. The drive could
>>>> last many years. You want to have extra storage.
>>>
>>> And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and
>>> effectively be an external drive.>
>>
>> But then you have this dangling external device. I like to have it
>> inside the case.
>"dangling"?
>
>That's a very odd way to phrase it.
>
>Having it inside the case is important if you have a laptop, but given
>the size of external drives these days, almost completely irrelevant if
>you have a desktop computer.
>
>Does it bother you that your monitor is "dangling"?
>
>Or your keyboard?
>
>:-)

They aren't dangling, they're supposed to be where they are, an
external storage drive that just sits there plugged in, in constant
use, is dangling.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-12-15 10:30, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Most people...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...the VAST majority...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...buy a COMPUTER...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> People who want real value will do what I did.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry (and I know this will come as a shock to you), but:
>>>>
>>>> People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
>>>> stupid.
>>>>
>>>> I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
>>>> thinking, but it's still true.
>>>
>>> It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
>>> you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
>>> Apple, on value, if you build yourself.
>>
>> And if you don't value you your own time.
>
>
> How much do you value time, that you'd pay Apple's rates?

Hmmmm....

My MacBook Air M3 cost me about $2,000CAD. So let's assume that I could
buy a Windows/Linux laptop for half as much

Since I'm fairly certain (based on prior experience) that this machine
will serve me for at least 5 years, my purchase only needs to save me a
couple of hours a year for it to have been a solid decision on dollars
alone.

I value my time highly.

>
>
>> You're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
>
>
> Not really, because it applies to prefab Winblows systems, too, they
> cheap out on certain parts to keep the prices competitive, that's why
> building my own was such a great investment, including of time itself.

How does that even address my point?