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sci / sci.space.policy / Re: Starship IFT-4, soon

SubjectAuthor
* Starship IFT-4, soonAlain Fournier
+* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonSnidely
|+- Re: Starship IFT-4, soonAlain Fournier
|`- Re: Starship IFT-4, soonSnidely
+* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonThe Running Man
|`* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonAlain Fournier
| `* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonThe Running Man
|  +* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonNiklas Holsti
|  |`* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonAlain Fournier
|  | +* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonNiklas Holsti
|  | |`* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonAlain Fournier
|  | | `- Re: Starship IFT-4, soonSnidely
|  | `* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonNiklas Holsti
|  |  `* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonAlain Fournier
|  |   `- Re: Starship IFT-4, soonSnidely
|  `- Re: Starship IFT-4, soonAlain Fournier
`* Re: Starship IFT-4, soonSnidely
 `- Re: Starship IFT-4, soonSnidely

1
Subject: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Alain Fournier
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 00:35 UTC
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: alain245@videotron.ca (Alain Fournier)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Tue, 21 May 2024 20:35:18 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for
testing activities.

https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf

I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.

Alain Fournier

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Snidely
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: Dis One
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 05:45 UTC
References: 1
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: snidely.too@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Tue, 21 May 2024 22:45:21 -0700
Organization: Dis One
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Alain Fournier explained :
> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for testing
> activities.
>
> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>
> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>
>
> Alain Fournier

Launch is NET "after Memorial Day", from the usual sources, with S29
just having rolled back from the Wet Dress Rehersal to complete tile
work.

SpaceX has ask the FAA to approve a launch license while the IFT3
mishap investigation still open, arguing that the failures were each in
a flight portion that did not represent a safety hazard.

/dps

--
"It wasn't just a splash in the pan"
-- lectricbikes.com

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: The Running Man
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: EasyNews
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 14:07 UTC
References: 1
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: runningman@writeable.com (The Running Man)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 14:07:29 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: EasyNews
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On 21/05/2024 20:35 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for
> testing activities.
>
> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>
> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>
>
> Alain Fournier

I'm still waiting for the incident report of the last flight. I'm very interested in how SpaceX's resolving the issues of Starship's uncontrolled tumbling. I'm also curious why Super Heavy failed to relight all of its engines during the landing burn, since SpaceX is doing this almost on a weekly basis with Falcon 9.

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Alain Fournier
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 19:32 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: alain245@videotron.ca (Alain Fournier)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 15:32:57 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 2024-05-22 1:45 a.m., Snidely wrote:
> Alain Fournier explained :
>> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for
>> testing activities.
>>
>> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>>
>> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>
> Launch is NET "after Memorial Day", from the usual sources, with S29
> just having rolled back from the Wet Dress Rehersal to complete tile work.

Translation: NET means "not earlier than"; Memorial Day is a US code
word for the last Monday of May (in this case May 27).

> SpaceX has ask the FAA to approve a launch license while the IFT3 mishap
> investigation still open, arguing that the failures were each in a
> flight portion that did not represent a safety hazard.

I agree with SpaceX about that.

Alain Fournier

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Alain Fournier
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 19:33 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: alain245@videotron.ca (Alain Fournier)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 15:33:35 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 2024-05-22 10:07 a.m., The Running Man wrote:
> On 21/05/2024 20:35 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
>> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for
>> testing activities.
>>
>> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>>
>> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>
> I'm still waiting for the incident report of the last flight. I'm very interested in how SpaceX's resolving the issues of Starship's uncontrolled tumbling. I'm also curious why Super Heavy failed to relight all of its engines during the landing burn, since SpaceX is doing this almost on a weekly basis with Falcon 9.

In my opinion, both Starship's and the booster's erratic behaviour can
be corrected by a software update. The software used for Falcon 9 can't
be used for Starship and its booster, so even though SpaceX has much
experience on controlling spacecrafts, they still need to write new code
and glitches happen in new code. I'm not much concerned about the IFT-3
problems.

Alain Fournier

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Snidely
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: Dis One
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 07:20 UTC
References: 1
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: snidely.too@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 00:20:48 -0700
Organization: Dis One
Lines: 20
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Alain Fournier explained :
> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for testing
> activities.
>
> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>
> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>
>
> Alain Fournier

Elon has just (as in May 23rd sometime around the launch of Starlink
6-63) twixxed that "Flight 4 in about 10 days", so expect Jun 01 or 02.

/dps

--
As a colleague once told me about an incoming manager,
"He does very well in a suck-up, kick-down culture."
Bill in Vancouver

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Snidely
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: Dis One
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 04:47 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: snidely.too@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 21:47:09 -0700
Organization: Dis One
Lines: 24
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Watch this space, where Snidely advised that...
> Alain Fournier explained :
>> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for testing
>> activities.
>>
>> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>>
>> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>
> Elon has just (as in May 23rd sometime around the launch of Starlink 6-63)
> twixxed that "Flight 4 in about 10 days", so expect Jun 01 or 02.

Apparently target is now June 5th.

-d

--
"That’s where I end with this kind of conversation: Language is
crucial, and yet not the answer."
Jonathan Rosa, sociocultural and linguistic anthropologist,
Stanford.,2020

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: The Running Man
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: EasyNews
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 04:54 UTC
References: 1
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: runningman@writeable.com (The Running Man)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 04:54:50 -0000 (UTC)
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On 22/05/2024 15:33 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2024-05-22 10:07 a.m., The Running Man wrote:
>> On 21/05/2024 20:35 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for
>>> testing activities.
>>>
>>> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>>>
>>> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alain Fournier
>>
>> I'm still waiting for the incident report of the last flight. I'm very interested in how SpaceX's resolving the issues of Starship's uncontrolled tumbling. I'm also curious why Super Heavy failed to relight all of its engines during the landing burn, since SpaceX is doing this almost on a weekly basis with Falcon 9.
>
> In my opinion, both Starship's and the booster's erratic behaviour can
> be corrected by a software update. The software used for Falcon 9 can't
> be used for Starship and its booster, so even though SpaceX has much
> experience on controlling spacecrafts, they still need to write new code
> and glitches happen in new code. I'm not much concerned about the IFT-3
> problems.
>
>
> Alain Fournier
>

<https://www.spacex.com/updates/#flight-3-report>

According to this update both the boostback burn and the roll-control loss were due to filter blockages.

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Niklas Holsti
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: Tidorum Ltd
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 09:06 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid (Niklas Holsti)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 12:06:32 +0300
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On 2024-05-25 7:54, The Running Man wrote:
> On 22/05/2024 15:33 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-22 10:07 a.m., The Running Man wrote:
>>> On 21/05/2024 20:35 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>>> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for
>>>> testing activities.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>>>>
>>>> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alain Fournier
>>>
>>> I'm still waiting for the incident report of the last flight. I'm very interested in how SpaceX's resolving the issues of Starship's uncontrolled tumbling. I'm also curious why Super Heavy failed to relight all of its engines during the landing burn, since SpaceX is doing this almost on a weekly basis with Falcon 9.
>>
>> In my opinion, both Starship's and the booster's erratic behaviour can
>> be corrected by a software update. The software used for Falcon 9 can't
>> be used for Starship and its booster, so even though SpaceX has much
>> experience on controlling spacecrafts, they still need to write new code
>> and glitches happen in new code. I'm not much concerned about the IFT-3
>> problems.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>>
>
> <https://www.spacex.com/updates/#flight-3-report>
>
> According to this update both the boostback burn and the roll-control loss were due to filter blockages.

But they don't say what kind of stuff was blocking the filters. Hm.

For IFT-4, they say that there are "operational changes including the
jettison of the Super Heavy’s hot-stage adapter following boostback to
reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight." What, so that part
will fall into the ocean and not be reused? This is a surprising
departure from earlier principles. Perhaps it is only a temporary
work-around.

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Alain Fournier
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 13:12 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: alain245@videotron.ca (Alain Fournier)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 09:12:53 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 2024-05-25 12:54 a.m., The Running Man wrote:
> On 22/05/2024 15:33 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-22 10:07 a.m., The Running Man wrote:
>>> On 21/05/2024 20:35 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>>> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for
>>>> testing activities.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>>>>
>>>> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alain Fournier
>>>
>>> I'm still waiting for the incident report of the last flight. I'm very interested in how SpaceX's resolving the issues of Starship's uncontrolled tumbling. I'm also curious why Super Heavy failed to relight all of its engines during the landing burn, since SpaceX is doing this almost on a weekly basis with Falcon 9.
>>
>> In my opinion, both Starship's and the booster's erratic behaviour can
>> be corrected by a software update. The software used for Falcon 9 can't
>> be used for Starship and its booster, so even though SpaceX has much
>> experience on controlling spacecrafts, they still need to write new code
>> and glitches happen in new code. I'm not much concerned about the IFT-3
>> problems.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>>
>
> <https://www.spacex.com/updates/#flight-3-report>
>
> According to this update both the boostback burn and the roll-control loss were due to filter blockages.

Interesting. Thank you.

Alain Fournier

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Alain Fournier
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 13:23 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: alain245@videotron.ca (Alain Fournier)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 09:23:19 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 2024-05-25 5:06 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:
> On 2024-05-25 7:54, The Running Man wrote:
>> On 22/05/2024 15:33 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-22 10:07 a.m., The Running Man wrote:
>>>> On 21/05/2024 20:35 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for
>>>>> testing activities.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alain Fournier
>>>>
>>>> I'm still waiting for the incident report of the last flight. I'm
>>>> very interested in how SpaceX's resolving the issues of Starship's
>>>> uncontrolled tumbling. I'm also curious why Super Heavy failed to
>>>> relight all of its engines during  the landing burn, since SpaceX is
>>>> doing this almost on a weekly basis with Falcon 9.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, both Starship's and the booster's erratic behaviour can
>>> be corrected by a software update. The software used for Falcon 9 can't
>>> be used for Starship and its booster, so even though SpaceX has much
>>> experience on controlling spacecrafts, they still need to write new code
>>> and glitches happen in new code. I'm not much concerned about the IFT-3
>>> problems.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alain Fournier
>>>
>>
>> <https://www.spacex.com/updates/#flight-3-report>
>>
>> According to this update both the boostback burn and the roll-control
>> loss were due to filter blockages.
>
>
> But they don't say what kind of stuff was blocking the filters. Hm.
>
> For IFT-4, they say that there are "operational changes including the
> jettison of the Super Heavy’s hot-stage adapter following boostback to
> reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight." What, so that part
> will fall into the ocean and not be reused? This is a surprising
> departure from earlier principles. Perhaps it is only a temporary
> work-around.

Indeed, it is a surprising departure from earlier principles. I don't
think that would be only a temporary work-around if they do so to reduce
mass. IFT-4 having no payload, they don't really need to reduce mass, so
they don't need to do it at all now. Perhaps this piece of hardware gets
severely damaged during flight (during hot-staging) and it is easier to
build a new one for each flight than to redesign it to survive intact.

Alain Fournier

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Snidely
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: Dis One
Date: Wed, 29 May 2024 03:23 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: snidely.too@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Tue, 28 May 2024 20:23:33 -0700
Organization: Dis One
Lines: 34
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On Tuesday, Snidely exclaimed wildly:
> Alain Fournier explained :
>> They are ordering some road closures for SpaceX a week from now for testing
>> activities.
>>
>> https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/05.28.2024-Press-Release-on-Order-of-Closure-Related-to-SpaceX-Flight.pdf
>>
>> I've been told launches typically occur a few days after these tests.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>
> Launch is NET "after Memorial Day", from the usual sources, with S29 just
> having rolled back from the Wet Dress Rehersal to complete tile work.

It actually didn't roll back, hanging out next to the OLM while the
suction cups were being applied. (Harbor Freight has similar suction
cups sold as being for lifting countertops.)

The second WDR has now been completed, and we may be on track for June
5th.

> SpaceX has ask the FAA to approve a launch license while the IFT3 mishap
> investigation still open, arguing that the failures were each in a flight
> portion that did not represent a safety hazard.
>
> /dps

--
"What do you think of my cart, Miss Morland? A neat one, is not it?
Well hung: curricle-hung in fact. Come sit by me and we'll test the
springs."
(Speculative fiction by H.Lacedaemonian.)

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Niklas Holsti
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: Tidorum Ltd
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 09:51 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid (Niklas Holsti)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 12:51:26 +0300
Organization: Tidorum Ltd
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On 2024-05-25 16:23, Alain Fournier wrote:
> On 2024-05-25 5:06 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:

[ snip ]

>> For IFT-4, they say that there are "operational changes including the
>> jettison of the Super Heavy’s hot-stage adapter following boostback to
>> reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight." What, so that part
>> will fall into the ocean and not be reused? This is a surprising
>> departure from earlier principles. Perhaps it is only a temporary
>> work-around.
>
> Indeed, it is a surprising departure from earlier principles. I don't
> think that would be only a temporary work-around if they do so to reduce
> mass. IFT-4 having no payload, they don't really need to reduce mass, so
> they don't need to do it at all now. Perhaps this piece of hardware gets
> severely damaged during flight (during hot-staging) and it is easier to
> build a new one for each flight than to redesign it to survive intact.

There is some good discussion by "CSI Starbase" in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytl1efG1sBw

The main suggestion is that fixing other issues by additions to the
booster HW increased booster mass so much that the LOX header tank
capacity became insufficient for booster recovery. The header tanks are
already built for the next few boosters and cannot easily be made
larger. Discarding the hot-stage adapter, to reduce mass, may thus be a
work-around for this header-tank issue, and may not be needed for future
boosters with larger LOX header tanks.

The video also presents evidence that the hot-stage adapter actually
tore itself loose during the last minutes of IFT-3 booster flight. This
may have been a factor in the booster's attitude-control problems during
its return.

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Alain Fournier
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 12:43 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: alain245@videotron.ca (Alain Fournier)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 08:43:42 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 2024-06-04 5:51 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:
> On 2024-05-25 16:23, Alain Fournier wrote:
>> On 2024-05-25 5:06 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:
>
>    [ snip ]
>
>>> For IFT-4, they say that there are "operational changes including the
>>> jettison of the Super Heavy’s hot-stage adapter following boostback
>>> to reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight." What, so that
>>> part will fall into the ocean and not be reused? This is a surprising
>>> departure from earlier principles. Perhaps it is only a temporary
>>> work-around.
>>
>> Indeed, it is a surprising departure from earlier principles. I don't
>> think that would be only a temporary work-around if they do so to
>> reduce mass. IFT-4 having no payload, they don't really need to reduce
>> mass, so they don't need to do it at all now. Perhaps this piece of
>> hardware gets severely damaged during flight (during hot-staging) and
>> it is easier to build a new one for each flight than to redesign it to
>> survive intact.
>
>
> There is some good discussion by "CSI Starbase" in this video:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytl1efG1sBw
>
> The main suggestion is that fixing other issues by additions to the
> booster HW increased booster mass so much that the LOX header tank
> capacity became insufficient for booster recovery. The header tanks are
> already built for the next few boosters and cannot easily be made
> larger. Discarding the hot-stage adapter, to reduce mass, may thus be a
> work-around for this header-tank issue, and may not be needed for future
> boosters with larger LOX header tanks.
>
> The video also presents evidence that the hot-stage adapter actually
> tore itself loose during the last minutes of IFT-3 booster flight. This
> may have been a factor in the booster's attitude-control problems during
> its return.

Thank you. The "CSI Starbase" video is cool.

Alain Fournier

Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
From: Snidely
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Organization: Dis One
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 18:17 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: snidely.too@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Starship IFT-4, soon
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2024 11:17:40 -0700
Organization: Dis One
Lines: 49
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Alain Fournier scribbled something on Tuesday the 6/4/2024:
> On 2024-06-04 5:51 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:
>> On 2024-05-25 16:23, Alain Fournier wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-25 5:06 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>
>>    [ snip ]
>>
>>>> For IFT-4, they say that there are "operational changes including the
>>>> jettison of the Super Heavy’s hot-stage adapter following boostback to
>>>> reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight." What, so that part
>>>> will fall into the ocean and not be reused? This is a surprising
>>>> departure from earlier principles. Perhaps it is only a temporary
>>>> work-around.
>>>
>>> Indeed, it is a surprising departure from earlier principles. I don't
>>> think that would be only a temporary work-around if they do so to reduce
>>> mass. IFT-4 having no payload, they don't really need to reduce mass, so
>>> they don't need to do it at all now. Perhaps this piece of hardware gets
>>> severely damaged during flight (during hot-staging) and it is easier to
>>> build a new one for each flight than to redesign it to survive intact.
>>
>>
>> There is some good discussion by "CSI Starbase" in this video:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytl1efG1sBw
>>
>> The main suggestion is that fixing other issues by additions to the booster
>> HW increased booster mass so much that the LOX header tank capacity became
>> insufficient for booster recovery. The header tanks are already built for
>> the next few boosters and cannot easily be made larger. Discarding the
>> hot-stage adapter, to reduce mass, may thus be a work-around for this
>> header-tank issue, and may not be needed for future boosters with larger
>> LOX header tanks.
>>
>> The video also presents evidence that the hot-stage adapter actually tore
>> itself loose during the last minutes of IFT-3 booster flight. This may have
>> been a factor in the booster's attitude-control problems during its return.
>
> Thank you. The "CSI Starbase" video is cool.
>
>
> Alain Fournier

Zack doesn't do many videos, but he does excellent videos.

/dps

--
Trust, but verify.

1

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