Desmond Tutu died yesterday.

Now that is not a name that is typically associated with Space History. But he is intimately connected to the racist clocks that NASA uses, from its very beginnings in 1958 through to this very day, with no end in sight.

I have been extremely patient with this particular issue. It's been nearly 4 years since it has been raised.
Absolutely no one has expressed interest when it was first raised, but perhaps today someone would like to know this persistent form of racism that permeates NASA. No one at all questions it. Just like the Stone Mountain up on the Moon. Nobody cares that NASA has inextricably tied their own history to the history of the KKK.

I don't think that even Desmond Tutu cared. Well, I expect that he actually *would have* cared. The problem is that just about everyone is oblivious.. So much so that every single member of this forum who has piped in on this issue to date has vehemently rejected the notion. So much so that no one even wants to hear the simple fact.

Everyone is actually well aware that NASA uses these racist clocks. It's just that no one has had the epiphany that it is in fact racist. Just like those certain NASA aircraft that were highlighted in that first post offered here in this thread. BOTH are examples of the MOST HEINOUS GENOCIDES in human history. And NASA continues to support them both, albeit unrecognized and unacknowledged. Yet both are right there, in plain sight. Unapologized for. Both the NASA clocks and these NASA aircraft.

I had called them out as racist. But it is really far beyond just racism. As highlighted now, these things that NASA continues to do is nothing short of egregious support for this history of GENOCIDE. So the title of this thread should actually be:

"...Pro-Genocide Clocks, Pro-Genocide Aircraft, etc".

And the fundamental issue here is whether or not NASA wishes to continue their support for this horrific history of genocide.
If the answer is 'no', then they will make these changes. Across the board..

It would be a fitting legacy in this wake of a person as historically significant as Desmond Tutu. A person who dedicated so much energy throughout his life in striving to turn the tide against racism. Much was accomplished throughout his lifespan, 1931-2021. But there is still much more left to do. The open question is whether or not NASA cares. It has been made absolutely clear that no one here in this forum cares. Or maybe today, now on this cusp of 2022, someone does.

Above, I have written words that could be interpreted to imply that Tutu was oblivious to the clocks. Actually I am *certain* that he was aware. I don't see how he could not have been. While I haven't heard of any time that he spoke publicly about this issue, it would not surprise me to learn that he did. It is very easy for me to imagine him having said:

"NASA, how bout you stop using your racist clocks."

It is far more than just NASA who maintains this practice. Both genocides have continued support in practices that permeate the military, along with NASA. And no one cares.

~ CT

On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 9:06:06 PM UTC-7, Stuf4 wrote:
> Desmond Tutu died yesterday.
>
> Now that is not a name that is typically associated with Space History. But he is intimately connected to the racist clocks that NASA uses, from its very beginnings in 1958 through to this very day, with no end in sight.
....
> It is very easy for me to imagine him having said:
>
> "NASA, how bout you stop using your racist clocks."

Here is Susan (Still) Kilrain talking about these Racist Clocks that NASA uses, without any hint of awareness whatsoever that they are indeed racist:

Z is for Zulu: Blast Off with an Astronaut into the ABC's of Space
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPNutgM7yso&t=38s

Maybe someday people will gain some awareness of the pro-genocide aircraft that NASA flies as well.
Awareness is only the first step. Doing something about it would be the step that matters.
And clearly Susan has not approached anything close to taking this first step.
Everyone here at ssh who has voiced their opinion on this is likewise nowhere close.

Today the USA has had a black president. We currently have a black-Indian vice president. But there are two kinds of 'Indian', as no one cared enough over five centuries to correct the terminology mistake. Half a millennium. And there are people today who still refer to these indigenous peoples of this continent as 'Indians'. Then there are those who have a semi-awareness of the problem in doing that, and opt for this other term 'Native American', as though these peoples might feel better about being named after a 15th century Italian explorer. Canada seems to have a handle on it with the much more respectful term 'First Nations'. So today the USA has its very first Cabinet Secretary of indigenous blood. Any chance that Deb Haaland will voice her complaint about how NASA, etc have these aircraft that are pro-genocide? I haven't heard a single word on this to date. It is quite likely that she does not consider it to be an important enough issue for her to make any waves over. After all, you do not rise to the top of a system steeped in racism by rocking the boat.

Likewise, I never heard Desmond Tutu ever voice any complaint about how NASA, etc ubiquitously uses these racist clocks. Here was a man who spoke Zulu. Yet as far as I know, he never said anything publicly on this. He apparently died having consigned himself to the reality that no one was ever going to do anything about removing this egregious form of racism up through the year 2021.

But it is now 2022. Today is a new beginning. And we yet again have this opportunity to define the things we care about. And also these other things that no one cares about. So are we going to continue in this pro-racist fashion? Continuing to use these practices that are nothing short of being pro-genocide?

Again, awareness is the first step. And on these particular issues, maybe this year 2022 will see us make some progress toward taking this first step.. That could open the door for the human species making a giant leap in progress.

~ CT

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 4:01:34 PM UTC-5, Stuf4 wrote:
> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 9:06:06 PM UTC-7, Stuf4 wrote:
> > Desmond Tutu died yesterday.
> >
> > Now that is not a name that is typically associated with Space History. But he is intimately connected to the racist clocks that NASA uses, from its very beginnings in 1958 through to this very day, with no end in sight.
> ...
> > It is very easy for me to imagine him having said:
> >
> > "NASA, how bout you stop using your racist clocks."
> Here is Susan (Still) Kilrain talking about these Racist Clocks that NASA uses, without any hint of awareness whatsoever that they are indeed racist:
>
> Z is for Zulu: Blast Off with an Astronaut into the ABC's of Space
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPNutgM7yso&t=38s
>
>
> Maybe someday people will gain some awareness of the pro-genocide aircraft that NASA flies as well.
> Awareness is only the first step. Doing something about it would be the step that matters.
> And clearly Susan has not approached anything close to taking this first step.
> Everyone here at ssh who has voiced their opinion on this is likewise nowhere close.
>
> Today the USA has had a black president. We currently have a black-Indian vice president. But there are two kinds of 'Indian', as no one cared enough over five centuries to correct the terminology mistake. Half a millennium.. And there are people today who still refer to these indigenous peoples of this continent as 'Indians'. Then there are those who have a semi-awareness of the problem in doing that, and opt for this other term 'Native American', as though these peoples might feel better about being named after a 15th century Italian explorer. Canada seems to have a handle on it with the much more respectful term 'First Nations'. So today the USA has its very first Cabinet Secretary of indigenous blood. Any chance that Deb Haaland will voice her complaint about how NASA, etc have these aircraft that are pro-genocide? I haven't heard a single word on this to date. It is quite likely that she does not consider it to be an important enough issue for her to make any waves over. After all, you do not rise to the top of a system steeped in racism by rocking the boat.
>
> Likewise, I never heard Desmond Tutu ever voice any complaint about how NASA, etc ubiquitously uses these racist clocks. Here was a man who spoke Zulu. Yet as far as I know, he never said anything publicly on this. He apparently died having consigned himself to the reality that no one was ever going to do anything about removing this egregious form of racism up through the year 2021.
>
> But it is now 2022. Today is a new beginning. And we yet again have this opportunity to define the things we care about. And also these other things that no one cares about. So are we going to continue in this pro-racist fashion? Continuing to use these practices that are nothing short of being pro-genocide?
>
> Again, awareness is the first step. And on these particular issues, maybe this year 2022 will see us make some progress toward taking this first step. That could open the door for the human species making a giant leap in progress.
>
> ~ CT
The only awareness needed here is for you to look in a mirror and ask that person to get help. Sheesh.

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 12:21:19 PM UTC-7, dama...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 4:01:34 PM UTC-5, Stuf4 wrote:
> > On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 9:06:06 PM UTC-7, Stuf4 wrote:
> > > Desmond Tutu died yesterday.
<snip>

> > Likewise, I never heard Desmond Tutu ever voice any complaint about how NASA, etc ubiquitously uses these racist clocks. Here was a man who spoke Zulu. Yet as far as I know, he never said anything publicly on this. He apparently died having consigned himself to the reality that no one was ever going to do anything about removing this egregious form of racism up through the year 2021.
> >
> > But it is now 2022. Today is a new beginning. And we yet again have this opportunity to define the things we care about. And also these other things that no one cares about. So are we going to continue in this pro-racist fashion? Continuing to use these practices that are nothing short of being pro-genocide?
> >
> > Again, awareness is the first step. And on these particular issues, maybe this year 2022 will see us make some progress toward taking this first step. That could open the door for the human species making a giant leap in progress.

> The only awareness needed here is for you to look in a mirror and ask that person to get help. Sheesh.

I've already expressed the opinion that Desmond Tutu probably cared about this issue. It is apparent that there are a critical mass of people in the USA and elsewhere, along with the untold masses of people who are oblivious or apathetic so that views like you and others have expressed here to hold up NASA itself from caring about ending such racist practices.

As though if NASA were to stop using racist clocks, and to change the name of Stone Mountain up on the Moon, and change the name of certain aircraft, there would be a mass of people who would gather to storm NASA Headquarters in the effort to prevent such changes from happening.

I can guess which side of the Tiki Torch Crowd certain members of ssh here would join.
Yeah, *I* am the one who is the problem here. The emperor's clothes look absolutely wonderful.
Yall can just keep on telling yourselves that.
You might be in the vocal majority today.
But it is an easy prediction to carry the vision
of the Dream that racism will not continue to
go on forever.

~ CT

I've seen this kind of thing before. This is a university psychology department race-relations project. What is done is to put race-related content out there, and evaluate the responses in the racist context of the project administrator. This was done about five years ago on Facebook. On Facebook, they used Middle Eastern names and photos on a space-related page. The persons were selling something not related to space. They went away when their posts were identified as being a research project.

On Saturday, January 8, 2022 at 6:13:45 PM UTC-5, Pat Willard wrote:
> I've seen this kind of thing before. This is a university psychology department race-relations project. What is done is to put race-related content out there, and evaluate the responses in the racist context of the project administrator. This was done about five years ago on Facebook. On Facebook, they used Middle Eastern names and photos on a space-related page. The persons were selling something not related to space. They went away when their posts were identified as being a research project.

Maybe, but this has been going on for almost 4 years. If the simplest theory is the most likely, than Stuf4 is just another internet troll.

For more than 2 decades now, I've been well aware of the hyper-toxicity here on this ssh forum. I do not share these inputs for the vocal majority of close-minded members. Usenet has this particular advantage of being an un-erasable archive of internet history. And my reason for posting has been with the expectation that there are certain people, maybe even just one person, who might actually be open to considering ideas that don't conform with the conventional wisdom.

It was in my very first thread which I posted concrete info which challenged conventional wisdom. And I was quickly branded as 'a troll'. It was apparent then, as it is now, that this is just a lazy method to attempt to discredit ideas which people have trouble swallowing.

The other part of that huge backlash from the very beginning here was me being labeled as a "Conspiracy Theorist". Yet more lazy strategies in this effort to dismiss certain types of info which go against encrusted mental inertia.

In the ideal world, if I post things that people see as being inaccurate, I would be presented with a sound rebuttal as to the reasons, say, why using 'Zulu Time' is not racist. I would be totally open to considering any and all rational counter-ideas. To this, and every single other notion I've presented here which has been vehemently rejected.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

One of the biggest Space History explanations presented here is how the Space Race was driven by the Nuclear Threat. 20-something years ago, no one was ready to hear that. But today in 2022, I'm quite glad to know that we are in the 3rd Stage. Most people accept this as obvious. I don't need to rub anyone's nose in it. The archives are all there for anyone who cares to examine the reaction.

And it is clear that today, we're still in the 1st Stage when it comes to Zulu Time racism. And about the 0th Stage when it comes to pro-genocide names like "Iroquois" & "Chinook" & "Comanche" aircraft that have been in the NASA stable. Perhaps it will take another 2 Decades for people to come around on those issues.
Or it's possible that no one ever will.
The other salient quote here is that:

"The victors write the history books." - (attributed to various sources, dating back to the 1800s)

The modern take on that is:
"Hollywood will make the movies."

And so the uneducated masses will accept the garbage distortions in movies like Apollo 13 and blindly accept them as fact.
While the people who care about accurate history will make the effort to read the source documents. And those who care deeply will have studied so much that they will develop an ability to read between the lines within these source documents.

Then when this info is presented to the first-level group, those who go so far as to swallow the story presented on the big screen, they freak out.

But in the case of Racist Clocks, I would actually recommend the classic 1964 Michael Caine movie 'Zulu' as an excellent starting point. It helps to keep in mind that this screenplay was based on an article titled "Slaughter in the Sun". Next week marks the 58th anniversary of when 'Zulu' was released. Watch it today with 2020s vision, and I expect many people might be inclined to tell NASA folks like Susan Still...

"Um, yeah, maybe we should stop doing that."

It's high time that Zulu Time be relegated to the dustbin of history. Closing yet another embarrassing chapter of things we, as a human species, have done.

~ CT