Attila < wrote:
>
> On Sat, 4 May 2024 21:23:06 +1000, Maximus
> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <l9mk4sFfn9fU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>
> >Attila wrote:
> >> On Sat, 4 May 2024 12:25:30 +1000, Maximus
> >> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> <l9lkksFb5ebU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Attila wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, 3 May 2024 22:37:39 +1000, Maximus
> >>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>>> <l9k44kF468qU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Attila wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 10:36:18 +1000, Maximus
> >>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>>>>> <l9g5g4FglehU2@mid.individual.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Attila wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
> >>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
> >>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
> >>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
> >>>>>>>>>> Apple?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
> >>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----------------
> >>>>>>>>> and the third person
> >>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
> >>>>>> He is not involved at this point.
> >>>>> so only the mother has a say in what happens?
> >>>>>
> >>>> She is the only person directly involved. The final
> >>>> decision belongs to her. She is the only one directly
> >>>> affected by that decision.
> >>> the father is directly involved. her decision will determine if he will
> >>> eventually have a biological child or not, assuming no miscarriage
> >>>
> >> No,
> >
> >that makes no sense. if the woman has a abortion the father doesn't get
> >to be a parent
>
> So? Many men become a parent and the result is no change at
> all in their life. In fact, any such a change is voluntary
> on his part. The woman has the responsibility to take care
> of the child (after risking her life and health to give
> birth) unless she proactively passes that responsibility on
> to another person. She can be arrested if she does not do
> this.
>
> >
> >> the events will progress even if the father is not aware
> >> of the situation. The only person who is always involved in
> >> deciding what the eventual result will be is the woman
> >> involved. In fact, the father does not even need to be
> >> alive.
> >>
> >> Her decision and her decision alone will determine he
> >> outcome.
> >
> >of course. but I'm saying the father has a right to say whether the
> >pregnancy should be terminated or not. but of course the woman will do
> >what she wants regardless
>
> The father has no skin in the game once the woman is
> pregnant. She is the one risking her life and health and
> such a risk should be voluntary and not forced.

I don't know what kind of world yous people live in...

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/

but if a guy kills a pregant woman it means he decides if the baby lives or not. The woman has no say.

Look at the Prime Minister of Israel. He bombs baby hospitols. He is a baby killer. He has pregnant women killed simply
because they are...pregnant.

It is the man who decides whether or not a pregnant women has a baby or not, not the women.

leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s...MURDER.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/

call it birth control, non-consensual abortion, genocide, etc.

If a woman tell her guy she's pregnant, the first thing he thinks of is...abortion.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/

you cannot say no to a man.

This Is A Man's World.

--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge the unchallengeable.

On Sun, 5 May 2024 14:42:14 +1000, Maximus
<gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
<l9oh17Fodi6U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:

>Attila wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 May 2024 09:06:41 +1000, Maximus
>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <l9ntc5FllptU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Attila wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 21:23:06 +1000, Maximus
>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>> <l9mk4sFfn9fU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 12:25:30 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <l9lkksFb5ebU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 May 2024 22:37:39 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>> <l9k44kF468qU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 10:36:18 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>> <l9g5g4FglehU2@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>>> He is not involved at this point.
>>>>>>>>> so only the mother has a say in what happens?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She is the only person directly involved. The final
>>>>>>>> decision belongs to her. She is the only one directly
>>>>>>>> affected by that decision.
>>>>>>> the father is directly involved. her decision will determine if he will
>>>>>>> eventually have a biological child or not, assuming no miscarriage
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No,
>>>>> that makes no sense. if the woman has a abortion the father doesn't get
>>>>> to be a parent
>>>> So? Many men become a parent and the result is no change at
>>>> all in their life. In fact, any such a change is voluntary
>>>> on his part. The woman has the responsibility to take care
>>>> of the child (after risking her life and health to give
>>>> birth) unless she proactively passes that responsibility on
>>>> to another person. She can be arrested if she does not do
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>>>> the events will progress even if the father is not aware
>>>>>> of the situation. The only person who is always involved in
>>>>>> deciding what the eventual result will be is the woman
>>>>>> involved. In fact, the father does not even need to be
>>>>>> alive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Her decision and her decision alone will determine he
>>>>>> outcome.
>>>>> of course. but I'm saying the father has a right to say whether the
>>>>> pregnancy should be terminated or not. but of course the woman will do
>>>>> what she wants regardless
>>>> The father has no skin in the game once the woman is
>>>> pregnant.
>>> it's his child too (or will be). what if the woman wants to terminate,
>>> but then after discussing it, they decide to raise the child?
>> As long as she isn't forced any result is fine. I am not
>> proabortion - I am prochoice. As long as she has a free
>> choice I don't care what that choice is.
>>>> She is the one risking her life and health and
>>>> such a risk should be voluntary and not forced.
>>> I'm not saying she should be forced, only that that father is entitled
>>> to have a say in the matter. although I don't know what rights the
>>> father has legally, if any. thankfully, I've never been a party to an
>>> unwanted pregnancy.
>> Nor have I. At my age it is unlikely I could ever be.
>
>oh, I thought you were a young(er) dude :)

I am sure MX will correct that. For some reason being old
is one of his buttons.

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
face with what she has to say.

Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
Apple?

Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
It is the business of no one else.

There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
She want's it. All else is irrelevant

I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.

Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

On Sat, 04 May 2024 21:47:07 -0700, The Starmaker
<starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
<66370F4B.76D@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Attila < wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 21:23:06 +1000, Maximus
>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <l9mk4sFfn9fU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Attila wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 4 May 2024 12:25:30 +1000, Maximus
>> >> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >> <l9lkksFb5ebU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Attila wrote:
>> >>>> On Fri, 3 May 2024 22:37:39 +1000, Maximus
>> >>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >>>> <l9k44kF468qU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Attila wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 10:36:18 +1000, Maximus
>> >>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >>>>>> <l9g5g4FglehU2@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>> >>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>> >>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>> >>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>> >>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>> >>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>> >>>>>>>>> and the third person
>> >>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>> >>>>>> He is not involved at this point.
>> >>>>> so only the mother has a say in what happens?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> She is the only person directly involved. The final
>> >>>> decision belongs to her. She is the only one directly
>> >>>> affected by that decision.
>> >>> the father is directly involved. her decision will determine if he will
>> >>> eventually have a biological child or not, assuming no miscarriage
>> >>>
>> >> No,
>> >
>> >that makes no sense. if the woman has a abortion the father doesn't get
>> >to be a parent
>>
>> So? Many men become a parent and the result is no change at
>> all in their life. In fact, any such a change is voluntary
>> on his part. The woman has the responsibility to take care
>> of the child (after risking her life and health to give
>> birth) unless she proactively passes that responsibility on
>> to another person. She can be arrested if she does not do
>> this.
>>
>> >
>> >> the events will progress even if the father is not aware
>> >> of the situation. The only person who is always involved in
>> >> deciding what the eventual result will be is the woman
>> >> involved. In fact, the father does not even need to be
>> >> alive.
>> >>
>> >> Her decision and her decision alone will determine he
>> >> outcome.
>> >
>> >of course. but I'm saying the father has a right to say whether the
>> >pregnancy should be terminated or not. but of course the woman will do
>> >what she wants regardless
>>
>> The father has no skin in the game once the woman is
>> pregnant. She is the one risking her life and health and
>> such a risk should be voluntary and not forced.
>
>
>I don't know what kind of world yous people live in...
>
>
>https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/
>
>but if a guy kills a pregant woman it means he decides if the baby lives or not. The woman has no say.

Pregnant or not she has no say in whether she lives or not.

There are laws that govern that.

>
>
>Look at the Prime Minister of Israel. He bombs baby hospitols. He is a baby killer. He has pregnant women killed simply
>because they are...pregnant.

That was Hamas. Please explain how a war can be conducted
without hitting hospitals, schools, and so forth.

>
>It is the man who decides whether or not a pregnant women has a baby or not, not the women.

Nope.

>
>leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s...MURDER.

http://www.indiaparenting.com/pregnancy/data/preg16_00.shtml

>
>
>https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/
>
>
>
>call it birth control, non-consensual abortion, genocide, etc.
>
>If a woman tell her guy she's pregnant, the first thing he thinks of is...abortion.

You have asked every pregnant woman?

>
>
>
>https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/
>
>
>
>you cannot say no to a man.

Sure they can. In any civilized society.

>
>
>This Is A Man's World.

And a woman's.

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
face with what she has to say.

Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
Apple?

Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
It is the business of no one else.

There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
She want's it. All else is irrelevant

I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.

Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

Attila wrote:
> On Sat, 04 May 2024 21:47:07 -0700, The Starmaker
> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <66370F4B.76D@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> Attila < wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 21:23:06 +1000, Maximus
>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <l9mk4sFfn9fU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 12:25:30 +1000, Maximus
>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <l9lkksFb5ebU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 May 2024 22:37:39 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <l9k44kF468qU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 10:36:18 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>> <l9g5g4FglehU2@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>> He is not involved at this point.
>>>>>>>> so only the mother has a say in what happens?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She is the only person directly involved. The final
>>>>>>> decision belongs to her. She is the only one directly
>>>>>>> affected by that decision.
>>>>>> the father is directly involved. her decision will determine if he will
>>>>>> eventually have a biological child or not, assuming no miscarriage
>>>>>>
>>>>> No,
>>>> that makes no sense. if the woman has a abortion the father doesn't get
>>>> to be a parent
>>> So? Many men become a parent and the result is no change at
>>> all in their life. In fact, any such a change is voluntary
>>> on his part. The woman has the responsibility to take care
>>> of the child (after risking her life and health to give
>>> birth) unless she proactively passes that responsibility on
>>> to another person. She can be arrested if she does not do
>>> this.
>>>
>>>>> the events will progress even if the father is not aware
>>>>> of the situation. The only person who is always involved in
>>>>> deciding what the eventual result will be is the woman
>>>>> involved. In fact, the father does not even need to be
>>>>> alive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Her decision and her decision alone will determine he
>>>>> outcome.
>>>> of course. but I'm saying the father has a right to say whether the
>>>> pregnancy should be terminated or not. but of course the woman will do
>>>> what she wants regardless
>>> The father has no skin in the game once the woman is
>>> pregnant. She is the one risking her life and health and
>>> such a risk should be voluntary and not forced.
>>
>> I don't know what kind of world yous people live in...
>>
>>
>> https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/
>>
>> but if a guy kills a pregant woman it means he decides if the baby lives or not. The woman has no say.
> Pregnant or not she has no say in whether she lives or not.
>
> There are laws that govern that.
>
>>
>> Look at the Prime Minister of Israel. He bombs baby hospitols. He is a baby killer. He has pregnant women killed simply
>> because they are...pregnant.
> That was Hamas. Please explain how a war can be conducted
> without hitting hospitals, schools, and so forth.
>

especially when Hamas uses civilians as human shields, and puts their
operations bases in hospitals, schools, etc/,

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"

On Sun, 5 May 2024 18:46:40 +1000, Maximus
<gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
<l9ovbgFqcqcU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:

>Attila wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 May 2024 21:47:07 -0700, The Starmaker
>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <66370F4B.76D@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 21:23:06 +1000, Maximus
>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>> <l9mk4sFfn9fU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 12:25:30 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <l9lkksFb5ebU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 May 2024 22:37:39 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>> <l9k44kF468qU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 10:36:18 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>> <l9g5g4FglehU2@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>>> He is not involved at this point.
>>>>>>>>> so only the mother has a say in what happens?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She is the only person directly involved. The final
>>>>>>>> decision belongs to her. She is the only one directly
>>>>>>>> affected by that decision.
>>>>>>> the father is directly involved. her decision will determine if he will
>>>>>>> eventually have a biological child or not, assuming no miscarriage
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No,
>>>>> that makes no sense. if the woman has a abortion the father doesn't get
>>>>> to be a parent
>>>> So? Many men become a parent and the result is no change at
>>>> all in their life. In fact, any such a change is voluntary
>>>> on his part. The woman has the responsibility to take care
>>>> of the child (after risking her life and health to give
>>>> birth) unless she proactively passes that responsibility on
>>>> to another person. She can be arrested if she does not do
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>>>> the events will progress even if the father is not aware
>>>>>> of the situation. The only person who is always involved in
>>>>>> deciding what the eventual result will be is the woman
>>>>>> involved. In fact, the father does not even need to be
>>>>>> alive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Her decision and her decision alone will determine he
>>>>>> outcome.
>>>>> of course. but I'm saying the father has a right to say whether the
>>>>> pregnancy should be terminated or not. but of course the woman will do
>>>>> what she wants regardless
>>>> The father has no skin in the game once the woman is
>>>> pregnant. She is the one risking her life and health and
>>>> such a risk should be voluntary and not forced.
>>>
>>> I don't know what kind of world yous people live in...
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/
>>>
>>> but if a guy kills a pregant woman it means he decides if the baby lives or not. The woman has no say.
>> Pregnant or not she has no say in whether she lives or not.
>>
>> There are laws that govern that.
>>
>>>
>>> Look at the Prime Minister of Israel. He bombs baby hospitols. He is a baby killer. He has pregnant women killed simply
>>> because they are...pregnant.
>> That was Hamas. Please explain how a war can be conducted
>> without hitting hospitals, schools, and so forth.
>>
>
>especially when Hamas uses civilians as human shields, and puts their
>operations bases in hospitals, schools, etc/,

Yes. As have previously said:

Step 1 - Treat terrorists and termites the same and kill
them on site.

Step 2 - Treat those who support terrorists as terrorists
themselves.

Step 3 - See step 1.

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
face with what she has to say.

Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
Apple?

Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
It is the business of no one else.

There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
She want's it. All else is irrelevant

I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.

Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

On 5/05/2024 2:30 pm, Maximus wrote:
> Michael Christ wrote:
>> On 5/05/2024 9:06 am, Maximus wrote:
>>> Attila wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 21:23:06 +1000, Maximus
>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>> <l9mk4sFfn9fU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 12:25:30 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <l9lkksFb5ebU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 May 2024 22:37:39 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>> <l9k44kF468qU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 10:36:18 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>> <l9g5g4FglehU2@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights?  Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>>> He is not involved at this point.
>>>>>>>>> so only the mother has a say in what happens?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She is the only person directly involved.  The final
>>>>>>>> decision belongs to her.  She is the only one directly
>>>>>>>> affected by that decision.
>>>>>>> the father is directly involved. her decision will determine if
>>>>>>> he will
>>>>>>> eventually have a biological child or not, assuming no miscarriage
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No,
>>>>> that makes no sense. if the woman has a abortion the father doesn't
>>>>> get
>>>>> to be a parent
>>>> So?  Many men become a parent and the result is no change at
>>>> all in their life.  In fact, any such a change is voluntary
>>>> on his part.  The woman has the responsibility to take care
>>>> of the child (after risking her life and health to give
>>>> birth) unless she proactively passes that responsibility on
>>>> to another person.  She can be arrested if she does not do
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>>>>    the events will progress even if the father is not aware
>>>>>> of the situation.  The only person who is always involved in
>>>>>> deciding what the eventual result will be is the woman
>>>>>> involved.  In fact, the father does not even need to be
>>>>>> alive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Her decision and her decision alone will determine he
>>>>>> outcome.
>>>>> of course. but I'm saying the father has a right to say whether the
>>>>> pregnancy should be terminated or not. but of course the woman will do
>>>>> what she wants regardless
>>>> The father has no skin in the game once the woman is
>>>> pregnant.
>>>
>>> it's his child too (or will be). what if the woman wants to
>>> terminate, but then after discussing it, they decide to raise the child?
>>>
>>>>   She is the one risking her life and health and
>>>> such a risk should be voluntary and not forced.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying she should be forced, only that that father is
>>> entitled to have a say in the matter. although I don't know what
>>> rights the father has legally, if any. thankfully, I've never been a
>>> party to an unwanted pregnancy.
>>
>> I was going to say, "But your parents were," but I decided against it
>> because it was a bit mean.
>
> nasty and untrue
>
>>
>> Maximus is a moron
>
> there's no evidence for that
>
>> but he is our Christian moron with his just concern about the father's
>> rights.
>
> at least you can agree the father has rights
>
>>
>> Whereas Attila is a complete asshole.
>
> there's no evidence for that also.
>
> both Attila and I justify what we say. you otoh claim 'the Lord' speaks
> to you and tells you things, so you cannot justify what you say. you
> resort to name calling to try to discredit us, because it's all you
> have, since you cannot discredit what we say.

In your eyes you are always right.

So you must be.

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

Attila < wrote:
>
> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >Attila < wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
> >> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Maximus wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Attila wrote:
> >> >> > On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
> >> >> > <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> >> > <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Attila wrote:
> >> >> >>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
> >> >> >>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> >> >>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
> >> >> >>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
> >> >> >>> Apple?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
> >> >> >>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> -----------------
> >> >> >> and the third person
> >> >> > There is no third person before live birth.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> yes there is, the father.
> >> >
> >> >There is the fourth person...
> >> >
> >> >If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
> >> >murders.
> >>
> >> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
> >> places two murders and in some places one.
> >
> >
> >A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>
> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?

What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person

per·son
/'p?rs(?)n/
noun

a human being regarded as an individual.
"the porter was the last person to see her"
synonyms: human being, individual, man/woman, human, being, living soul, soul, mortal, creature, fellow,
figure, personage, character, type, sort, beggar, cookie, customer, critter, bunny, fella, bloke,
chap, bod, geezer, gent, guy, gal, dude, hombre, body,

'body'

If you kill a pregnant women you charged with two murders.

two persons, two bodies.

Right now there are 1 million woman, pregnant women and children in Rafah...

you don't actually believe there are a million hamas guys hiding behind each one do you?

--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge the unchallengeable.

Attila < wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2 May 2024 21:50:39 +0100, cld
> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <1LednWR_pcz1Ya77nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>
> >Attila wrote:
> >> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
> >> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Attila wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
> >>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
> >>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
> >>>> Apple?
> >>>>
> >>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
> >>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----------------
> >>>
> >>> and the third person
> >>
> >> There is no third person before live birth.
> >
> >Conception comes before birth, ask anyone.
> >>
> >>
>
> Irrelevant. In some cultures in the past babies were not
> named until they were one year old due to the high infant
> mortality rate.
>
> If a fetus is a person can it be counted in a census? Is it
> a tax deduction? Is it a citizen? Of where? Does it need
> a passport?

a citizen? the fetus 'occupies' a place on earth

Albert Einstein said he was a citizen of the earth...

but i don't know how to verify earth to you.

i might find for you 'a blue dot' somewhere in space..
but i don't see the letters e-a-r-t-h on it, so
i'll have to keep trying to see if i can verify if
an earth exist.

wat about if i'm standing on the moon and i see
a BIG blue dot, would that help?

--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge the unchallengeable.

On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
<starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
<6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Attila < wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Attila < wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>> >> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Maximus wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Attila wrote:
>> >> >> > On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>> >> >> > <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >> >> > <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Attila wrote:
>> >> >> >>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>> >> >> >>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >> >> >>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>> >> >> >>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>> >> >> >>> Apple?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>> >> >> >>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> -----------------
>> >> >> >> and the third person
>> >> >> > There is no third person before live birth.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> yes there is, the father.
>> >> >
>> >> >There is the fourth person...
>> >> >
>> >> >If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>> >> >murders.
>> >>
>> >> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>> >> places two murders and in some places one.
>> >
>> >
>> >A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>
>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>
>
>What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>
>https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>
>per·son
>/'p?rs(?)n/
>noun
>
> a human being regarded as an individual.
> "the porter was the last person to see her"
> synonyms: human being, individual, man/woman, human, being, living soul, soul, mortal, creature, fellow,
>figure, personage, character, type, sort, beggar, cookie, customer, critter, bunny, fella, bloke,
>chap, bod, geezer, gent, guy, gal, dude, hombre, body,

But when exactly does a human being exist?

You list a lot of terms. I have yet to see any evidence
that any soul exists. A bunny is not human. Slang hardly
qualifies as a definition.

>
>
>'body'
>
>
>
>If you kill a pregnant women you charged with two murders.
>
>two persons, two bodies.

Not if the local laws do not define a fetus as a human
being.

>
>
>Right now there are 1 million woman, pregnant women and children in Rafah...
>
>you don't actually believe there are a million hamas guys hiding behind each one do you?

I have no idea. Nor do I care.

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
face with what she has to say.

Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
Apple?

Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
It is the business of no one else.

There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
She want's it. All else is irrelevant

I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.

Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

On Sun, 05 May 2024 11:14:04 -0700, The Starmaker
<starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
<6637CC6C.20E0@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Attila < wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 21:50:39 +0100, cld
>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <1LednWR_pcz1Ya77nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Attila wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>> >> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Attila wrote:
>> >>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>> >>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>> >>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>> >>>> Apple?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>> >>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----------------
>> >>>
>> >>> and the third person
>> >>
>> >> There is no third person before live birth.
>> >
>> >Conception comes before birth, ask anyone.
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> Irrelevant. In some cultures in the past babies were not
>> named until they were one year old due to the high infant
>> mortality rate.
>>
>> If a fetus is a person can it be counted in a census? Is it
>> a tax deduction? Is it a citizen? Of where? Does it need
>> a passport?
>
>
>a citizen? the fetus 'occupies' a place on earth

A citizen is a recognized legal member of a particular
country.

>
>
>Albert Einstein said he was a citizen of the earth...

So what? Did he decide the qualifications?

>
>but i don't know how to verify earth to you.
>
>
>i might find for you 'a blue dot' somewhere in space..
>but i don't see the letters e-a-r-t-h on it, so
>i'll have to keep trying to see if i can verify if
>an earth exist.
>
>wat about if i'm standing on the moon and i see
>a BIG blue dot, would that help?

The Earth has no one formal political structure to grant
citizenship to anyone.

One could just as properly claim to be a citizen of the
galaxy - for what it's worth.

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
face with what she has to say.

Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
Apple?

Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
It is the business of no one else.

There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
She want's it. All else is irrelevant

I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.

Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

On 6/05/2024 8:18 am, Attila wrote:
> On Sun, 05 May 2024 11:14:04 -0700, The Starmaker
> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <6637CC6C.20E0@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> Attila < wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 21:50:39 +0100, cld
>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <1LednWR_pcz1Ya77nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>
>>>> Conception comes before birth, ask anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Irrelevant. In some cultures in the past babies were not
>>> named until they were one year old due to the high infant
>>> mortality rate.
>>>
>>> If a fetus is a person can it be counted in a census? Is it
>>> a tax deduction? Is it a citizen? Of where? Does it need
>>> a passport?
>>
>>
>> a citizen? the fetus 'occupies' a place on earth
>
> A citizen is a recognized legal member of a particular
> country.

And a fetus is a citizen, a recognized member of the human race
according to God.

Michael Christ

>
>>
>>
>> Albert Einstein said he was a citizen of the earth...
>
> So what? Did he decide the qualifications?
>
>>
>> but i don't know how to verify earth to you.
>>
>>
>> i might find for you 'a blue dot' somewhere in space..
>> but i don't see the letters e-a-r-t-h on it, so
>> i'll have to keep trying to see if i can verify if
>> an earth exist.
>>
>> wat about if i'm standing on the moon and i see
>> a BIG blue dot, would that help?
>
> The Earth has no one formal political structure to grant
> citizenship to anyone.
>
> One could just as properly claim to be a citizen of the
> galaxy - for what it's worth.
>
> --
>
> Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
> and abhorrent.
> Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.
>
> Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
> as I prefer to call them
>
> The most dangerous enemies the United States has:
>
> Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
> supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
> Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
> Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
> Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
> Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
> have stepped over the line and are working against
> the country and what it stands for.
>
> Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.
>
> Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
> Go WOKE. Go broke.
> CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
> DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
> End all social engineering programs.
>
> I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
> face with what she has to say.
>
> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
> Apple?
>
> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
> It is the business of no one else.
>
> There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
> She want's it. All else is irrelevant
>
> I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.
>
> Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

On Mon, 6 May 2024 10:11:45 +1000, Michael Christ
<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> in alt.atheism with
message-id <v19781$22vne$3@dont-email.me> wrote:

>On 6/05/2024 8:18 am, Attila wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 11:14:04 -0700, The Starmaker
>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <6637CC6C.20E0@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 21:50:39 +0100, cld
>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>> <1LednWR_pcz1Ya77nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Conception comes before birth, ask anyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Irrelevant. In some cultures in the past babies were not
>>>> named until they were one year old due to the high infant
>>>> mortality rate.
>>>>
>>>> If a fetus is a person can it be counted in a census? Is it
>>>> a tax deduction? Is it a citizen? Of where? Does it need
>>>> a passport?
>>>
>>>
>>> a citizen? the fetus 'occupies' a place on earth
>>
>> A citizen is a recognized legal member of a particular
>> country.
>
>And a fetus is a citizen, a recognized member of the human race
>according to God.

God doesn't issue citizenship papers, historically a fetus
is not a member of the human race and citizenship requires a
distinct political entity.

But keep trying. Even a stopped clock is correct twice per
day.

>
>Michael Christ
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Albert Einstein said he was a citizen of the earth...
>>
>> So what? Did he decide the qualifications?
>>
>>>
>>> but i don't know how to verify earth to you.
>>>
>>>
>>> i might find for you 'a blue dot' somewhere in space..
>>> but i don't see the letters e-a-r-t-h on it, so
>>> i'll have to keep trying to see if i can verify if
>>> an earth exist.
>>>
>>> wat about if i'm standing on the moon and i see
>>> a BIG blue dot, would that help?
>>
>> The Earth has no one formal political structure to grant
>> citizenship to anyone.
>>
>> One could just as properly claim to be a citizen of the
>> galaxy - for what it's worth.
>>

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
face with what she has to say.

Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
Apple?

Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
It is the business of no one else.

There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
She want's it. All else is irrelevant

I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.

Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

On 5/5/24 19:11, Michael Christ wrote:
> Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God,

Take this shit of yours out of the sci.physics forum. It is not our
fault your Dad fucked you in the ass each afternoon when you got home
from the middle school.

On 7/05/2024 4:57 am, Physfitfreak wrote:
> On 5/5/24 19:11, Michael Christ wrote:
>> Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God,
>
>
> Take this shit of yours out of the sci.physics forum. It is not our
> fault your Dad fucked you in the ass each afternoon when you got home
> from the middle school.

I didn't add your marvelous group, girlfriend.

Don't take your fetish out on me.

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

"Not fearing God is sheer stupidity for sinners."

"Self-righteousness is any exclusion of God in your heart, because any
exclusion reveals that you think more about yourself than what you
really are."

On 5/5/2024 3:14 PM, Attila wrote:
> On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> Attila < wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is the fourth person...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>>>>>> murders.
>>>>>
>>>>> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>>>>> places two murders and in some places one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>>
>>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>>
>>
>> What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>>
>> per·son
>> /'p?rs(?)n/
>> noun
>>
>> a human being regarded as an individual.

An individual what? I have individual potted plant growing in my garden.

>> "the porter was the last person to see her"

What constitutes a human person?

>
> But when exactly does a human being exist?

At conception, of course.

On Tue, 7 May 2024 23:15:59 -0700, Mike Colangelo
<air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
<zME_N.97520$lwqa.80206@fx18.iad> wrote:

>On 5/5/2024 3:14 PM, Attila wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is the fourth person...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>>>>>>> murders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>>>>>> places two murders and in some places one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>>>
>>>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>>>
>>> per·son
>>> /'p?rs(?)n/
>>> noun
>>>
>>> a human being regarded as an individual.
>
>An individual what? I have individual potted plant growing in my garden.

You are now being argumentative. An individual human being,
species human. I am looking for a definition that supports
your above comment.

" A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's
alive!"

>
>>> "the porter was the last person to see her"
>
>What constitutes a human person?

Good question. Can you reference a definition?

>
>>
>> But when exactly does a human being exist?
>
>At conception, of course.

Is a fetus a person? If so can it be a tax deduction? Can
it own property? Can it inherit? Is it a citizen? Of what
country and how is this determined? Can it get
documentation to support any of this? Who would provide
such documentation?

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
face with what she has to say.

Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
Apple?

Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
It is the business of no one else.

There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
She want's it. All else is irrelevant

I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.

Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

On 5/8/2024 2:47 AM, Attila wrote:
> On Tue, 7 May 2024 23:15:59 -0700, Mike Colangelo
> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <zME_N.97520$lwqa.80206@fx18.iad> wrote:
>
>> On 5/5/2024 3:14 PM, Attila wrote:
>>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is the fourth person...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>>>>>>>> murders.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>>>>>>> places two murders and in some places one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>>>>
>>>>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>>>>
>>>> per·son
>>>> /'p?rs(?)n/
>>>> noun
>>>>
>>>> a human being regarded as an individual.
>>
>> An individual what? I have individual potted plants growing in my garden.
>
> You are now being argumentative.

Fuck off. That's all you're ever doing here.

> An individual human being,

tautology

> " A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's
> alive!"

Cattle have all that, and they are not persons.

>>
>>>> "the porter was the last person to see her"
>>
>> What constitutes a human person?
>
> Good question.

You can't answer it.

>>
>>>
>>> But when exactly does a human being exist?
>>
>> At conception, of course.
>
> Is a fetus a person?

Not a complete person.

On Thu, 9 May 2024 08:45:31 -0700, Mike Colangelo
<air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
<Uc6%N.11059$uO7b.4346@fx05.iad> wrote:

>On 5/8/2024 2:47 AM, Attila wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 May 2024 23:15:59 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <zME_N.97520$lwqa.80206@fx18.iad> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/5/2024 3:14 PM, Attila wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>> <6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is the fourth person...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>>>>>>>>> murders.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>>>>>>>> places two murders and in some places one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>>>>>
>>>>> per·son
>>>>> /'p?rs(?)n/
>>>>> noun
>>>>>
>>>>> a human being regarded as an individual.
>>>
>>> An individual what? I have individual potted plants growing in my garden.
>>
>> You are now being argumentative.
>
>Fuck off. That's all you're ever doing here.
>
>> An individual human being,
>
>tautology
>
>
>> " A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's
>> alive!"
>
>Cattle have all that, and they are not persons.

If you look above you will see I was repeating something
that was said by someone else. I challenged the statement
and was ignored.

The origional was posted by The Starmaker

>
>>>
>>>>> "the porter was the last person to see her"
>>>
>>> What constitutes a human person?
>>
>> Good question.
>
>You can't answer it.

Again I did not make the origional statement.

In fact, you copied a part of a definition posted by The
Starmaker.

Historically a person was a human being, which is a
socio-legal term that requires species human and live birth.
This is reflected in the laws that differentiate between a
fetus and a legal person.

>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> But when exactly does a human being exist?
>>>
>>> At conception, of course.
>>
>> Is a fetus a person?
>
>Not a complete person.

So someone can be a little bit of a person but not a whole
person? Just what is the difference between an incomplete
person and a complete person?

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
face with what she has to say.

Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
Apple?

Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
It is the business of no one else.

There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
She want's it. All else is irrelevant

I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.

Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

Attila wrote:
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 08:45:31 -0700, Mike Colangelo
> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <Uc6%N.11059$uO7b.4346@fx05.iad> wrote:
>
>> On 5/8/2024 2:47 AM, Attila wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 May 2024 23:15:59 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <zME_N.97520$lwqa.80206@fx18.iad> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/5/2024 3:14 PM, Attila wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>>> There is the fourth person...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>>>>>>>>>> murders.
>>>>>>>>> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>>>>>>>>> places two murders and in some places one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>>>>>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>>>>>>
>>>>>> per·son
>>>>>> /'p?rs(?)n/
>>>>>> noun
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a human being regarded as an individual.
>>>> An individual what? I have individual potted plants growing in my garden.
>>> You are now being argumentative.
>> Fuck off. That's all you're ever doing here.
>>
>>> An individual human being,
>> tautology
>>
>>
>>> " A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's
>>> alive!"
>> Cattle have all that, and they are not persons.
> If you look above you will see I was repeating something
> that was said by someone else. I challenged the statement
> and was ignored.
>
> The origional was posted by The Starmaker
>
>>>>>> "the porter was the last person to see her"
>>>> What constitutes a human person?
>>> Good question.
>> You can't answer it.
> Again I did not make the origional statement.
>
> In fact, you copied a part of a definition posted by The
> Starmaker.
>
> Historically a person was a human being, which is a
> socio-legal term that requires species human and live birth.
> This is reflected in the laws that differentiate between a
> fetus and a legal person.
>
>>>>> But when exactly does a human being exist?
>>>> At conception, of course.
>>> Is a fetus a person?
>> Not a complete person.
> So someone can be a little bit of a person but not a whole
> person? Just what is the difference between an incomplete
> person and a complete person?
>
>

a fetus could be considered an incomplete person or human

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"

Maximus wrote:

> a fetus could be considered an incomplete person or human.

Does that mean I can claim a fetus as a dependant on my income taxes?

On Fri, 10 May 2024 11:33:20 +1000, Maximus
<gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
<la5br1Fmf3cU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:

>Attila wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 May 2024 08:45:31 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <Uc6%N.11059$uO7b.4346@fx05.iad> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2024 2:47 AM, Attila wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 7 May 2024 23:15:59 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>>>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>> <zME_N.97520$lwqa.80206@fx18.iad> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/5/2024 3:14 PM, Attila wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>>>> There is the fourth person...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>>>>>>>>>>> murders.
>>>>>>>>>> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>>>>>>>>>> places two murders and in some places one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>>>>>>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> per·son
>>>>>>> /'p?rs(?)n/
>>>>>>> noun
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a human being regarded as an individual.
>>>>> An individual what? I have individual potted plants growing in my garden.
>>>> You are now being argumentative.
>>> Fuck off. That's all you're ever doing here.
>>>
>>>> An individual human being,
>>> tautology
>>>
>>>
>>>> " A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's
>>>> alive!"
>>> Cattle have all that, and they are not persons.
>> If you look above you will see I was repeating something
>> that was said by someone else. I challenged the statement
>> and was ignored.
>>
>> The origional was posted by The Starmaker
>>
>>>>>>> "the porter was the last person to see her"
>>>>> What constitutes a human person?
>>>> Good question.
>>> You can't answer it.
>> Again I did not make the origional statement.
>>
>> In fact, you copied a part of a definition posted by The
>> Starmaker.
>>
>> Historically a person was a human being, which is a
>> socio-legal term that requires species human and live birth.
>> This is reflected in the laws that differentiate between a
>> fetus and a legal person.
>>
>>>>>> But when exactly does a human being exist?
>>>>> At conception, of course.
>>>> Is a fetus a person?
>>> Not a complete person.
>> So someone can be a little bit of a person but not a whole
>> person? Just what is the difference between an incomplete
>> person and a complete person?
>>
>>
>
>a fetus could be considered an incomplete person or human

But not yet a person or a human, just as an acorn is not yet
an oak tree and an egg is not yet a chicken.

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

I don't know how Comical Karine can still hold a straight
face with what she has to say.

Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
Apple?

Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
It is the business of no one else.

There is only one reason for a woman to get an abortion.
She want's it. All else is irrelevant

I support a Pro-Choice Constitutional Amendment.

Don't build a wall, build a kill zone.

Attila wrote:
> On Fri, 10 May 2024 11:33:20 +1000, Maximus
> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <la5br1Fmf3cU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>
>> Attila wrote:
>>> On Thu, 9 May 2024 08:45:31 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <Uc6%N.11059$uO7b.4346@fx05.iad> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/8/2024 2:47 AM, Attila wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 7 May 2024 23:15:59 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>>>>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <zME_N.97520$lwqa.80206@fx18.iad> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/5/2024 3:14 PM, Attila wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is the fourth person...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>>>>>>>>>>>> murders.
>>>>>>>>>>> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>>>>>>>>>>> places two murders and in some places one.
>>>>>>>>>> A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>>>>>>>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> per·son
>>>>>>>> /'p?rs(?)n/
>>>>>>>> noun
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a human being regarded as an individual.
>>>>>> An individual what? I have individual potted plants growing in my garden.
>>>>> You are now being argumentative.
>>>> Fuck off. That's all you're ever doing here.
>>>>
>>>>> An individual human being,
>>>> tautology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> " A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's
>>>>> alive!"
>>>> Cattle have all that, and they are not persons.
>>> If you look above you will see I was repeating something
>>> that was said by someone else. I challenged the statement
>>> and was ignored.
>>>
>>> The origional was posted by The Starmaker
>>>
>>>>>>>> "the porter was the last person to see her"
>>>>>> What constitutes a human person?
>>>>> Good question.
>>>> You can't answer it.
>>> Again I did not make the origional statement.
>>>
>>> In fact, you copied a part of a definition posted by The
>>> Starmaker.
>>>
>>> Historically a person was a human being, which is a
>>> socio-legal term that requires species human and live birth.
>>> This is reflected in the laws that differentiate between a
>>> fetus and a legal person.
>>>
>>>>>>> But when exactly does a human being exist?
>>>>>> At conception, of course.
>>>>> Is a fetus a person?
>>>> Not a complete person.
>>> So someone can be a little bit of a person but not a whole
>>> person? Just what is the difference between an incomplete
>>> person and a complete person?
>>>
>>>
>> a fetus could be considered an incomplete person or human
> But not yet a person or a human, just as an acorn is not yet
> an oak tree and an egg is not yet a chicken.
>

do you believe late term abortion is ok?

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"

Attila <<prochoice@here.now> writes:

> On Fri, 10 May 2024 11:33:20 +1000, Maximus
> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <la5br1Fmf3cU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>
>>Attila wrote:
>>> On Thu, 9 May 2024 08:45:31 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <Uc6%N.11059$uO7b.4346@fx05.iad> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/8/2024 2:47 AM, Attila wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 7 May 2024 23:15:59 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>>>>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <zME_N.97520$lwqa.80206@fx18.iad> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/5/2024 3:14 PM, Attila wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is the fourth person...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>>>>>>>>>>>> murders.
>>>>>>>>>>> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>>>>>>>>>>> places two murders and in some places one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>>>>>>>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> per·son
>>>>>>>> /'p?rs(?)n/
>>>>>>>> noun
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a human being regarded as an individual.
>>>>>> An individual what? I have individual potted plants growing in my garden.
>>>>> You are now being argumentative.
>>>> Fuck off. That's all you're ever doing here.
>>>>
>>>>> An individual human being,
>>>> tautology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> " A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's
>>>>> alive!"
>>>> Cattle have all that, and they are not persons.
>>> If you look above you will see I was repeating something
>>> that was said by someone else. I challenged the statement
>>> and was ignored.
>>>
>>> The origional was posted by The Starmaker
>>>
>>>>>>>> "the porter was the last person to see her"
>>>>>> What constitutes a human person?
>>>>> Good question.
>>>> You can't answer it.
>>> Again I did not make the origional statement.
>>>
>>> In fact, you copied a part of a definition posted by The
>>> Starmaker.
>>>
>>> Historically a person was a human being, which is a
>>> socio-legal term that requires species human and live birth.
>>> This is reflected in the laws that differentiate between a
>>> fetus and a legal person.
>>>
>>>>>>> But when exactly does a human being exist?
>>>>>> At conception, of course.
>>>>> Is a fetus a person?
>>>> Not a complete person.
>>> So someone can be a little bit of a person but not a whole
>>> person? Just what is the difference between an incomplete
>>> person and a complete person?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>a fetus could be considered an incomplete person or human
>
> But not yet a person or a human, just as an acorn is not yet
> an oak tree and an egg is not yet a chicken.

A human fetus is definately human. Where do you draw the line to say an
unborn baby becomes an unborn baby?

Famous atheist Christopher Hitchens doesn't agree with you:

https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/a-left-wing-atheists-case-against-abortion

On Fri, 10 May 2024 15:44:14 +1000, Maximus
<gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
<la5qhgFoi8dU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:

>Attila wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 May 2024 11:33:20 +1000, Maximus
>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <la5br1Fmf3cU3@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Attila wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 9 May 2024 08:45:31 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>>>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>> <Uc6%N.11059$uO7b.4346@fx05.iad> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/8/2024 2:47 AM, Attila wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 7 May 2024 23:15:59 -0700, Mike Colangelo
>>>>>> <air@vatican_.con> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <zME_N.97520$lwqa.80206@fx18.iad> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/5/2024 3:14 PM, Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 10:55:58 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>> <6637C82E.65EA@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 02 May 2024 09:21:22 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>> <6633BD82.2D97@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Attila < wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 May 2024 20:11:09 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>>>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>> <6633044D.3487@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 20:43:25 +0100, cld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <clowd@nimbus.net.inv> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <SOqcnQWwu_GqBq_7nZ2dnZeNn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000, Maximus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gladiator@colosseum.rome> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <l9cfdfFu7b8U1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did the last sane person leaving California remember to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn off the lights? Did he do the same for the Rotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion should be like any other medical procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be the decision of the patient and the doctor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the third person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no third person before live birth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes there is, the father.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is the fourth person...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If a husband muders his pregnant wife, he gets charged for ...two
>>>>>>>>>>>>> murders.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The charge would vary according to local law. In some
>>>>>>>>>>>> places two murders and in some places one.
>>>>>>>>>>> A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's alive!
>>>>>>>>>> Reference please. Or is this your opinion?
>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "Reference"? It's the definition. (you don't even know if the earth exist!)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+person
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> per·son
>>>>>>>>> /'p?rs(?)n/
>>>>>>>>> noun
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a human being regarded as an individual.
>>>>>>> An individual what? I have individual potted plants growing in my garden.
>>>>>> You are now being argumentative.
>>>>> Fuck off. That's all you're ever doing here.
>>>>>
>>>>>> An individual human being,
>>>>> tautology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> " A person is a 'body'...eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs..it's
>>>>>> alive!"
>>>>> Cattle have all that, and they are not persons.
>>>> If you look above you will see I was repeating something
>>>> that was said by someone else. I challenged the statement
>>>> and was ignored.
>>>>
>>>> The origional was posted by The Starmaker
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "the porter was the last person to see her"
>>>>>>> What constitutes a human person?
>>>>>> Good question.
>>>>> You can't answer it.
>>>> Again I did not make the origional statement.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, you copied a part of a definition posted by The
>>>> Starmaker.
>>>>
>>>> Historically a person was a human being, which is a
>>>> socio-legal term that requires species human and live birth.
>>>> This is reflected in the laws that differentiate between a
>>>> fetus and a legal person.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> But when exactly does a human being exist?
>>>>>>> At conception, of course.
>>>>>> Is a fetus a person?
>>>>> Not a complete person.
>>>> So someone can be a little bit of a person but not a whole
>>>> person? Just what is the difference between an incomplete
>>>> person and a complete person?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> a fetus could be considered an incomplete person or human
>> But not yet a person or a human, just as an acorn is not yet
>> an oak tree and an egg is not yet a chicken.
>>
>
>do you believe late term abortion is ok?

I leave the entire subject up to the woman and her doctor.
At some point it would be more dangerous for her to get an
abortion than to complete the process and that point would
be determined medically.

Very few abortions not based upon medical conditions occur
toward the end of the process.

--

Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
and abhorrent.
Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

Whatever it takes - Stop the Democrats. Or the Dims
as I prefer to call them

The most dangerous enemies the United States has:

Biden the Senile Bastard and his Bitch and
supported by the Sluts and Pimps including
Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, Jamaal Bowman,
Cori Bush, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters, Jerry Nadler,
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Cory Booker. They
have stepped over the line and are working against
the country and what it stands for.

Do not work with them but oppose everything they attempt.

Stop the Green Raw Deal! I dare call it treason.
Go WOKE. Go broke.
CRT - Criminals Recruiting Thugs
DEI - Dumbass Egotistical Idiocy
End all social engineering programs.

palsing wrote:
> Maximus wrote:
>
>> a fetus could be considered an incomplete person or human.
>
>
>
> Does that mean I can claim a fetus as a dependant on my income taxes?

no because it's only 9 months