In recent years the use of dental amalgam has been phased out in the countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark.

It has often been suspected that the presence of amalgam dental fillings in people’s teeth is the real cause of many neurological and so-called psychiatric disorders.

However, it appears that no-one has bothered to ask the authorities in either Norway, Sweden or Denmark if the phasing out of amalgam has resulted in any reduction in the incidence of disorders such as these.

In his report, "Review of Norwegian experiences with the phase-out of dental amalgam use", analyst John M. Skjelvik states that, although no causal relationship between amalgam fillings and human health problems had yet been established, "many research gaps existed, which, if addressed, may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all.“

This statement appears to imply that the argument over the "controversy" referred to may have been resurrected recently in Norway for some reason.

Is it possible that the phasing out of dental amalgam has indeed corresponded with a reduction in the incidence many neurological and psychiatric disorders?

It may be argued that if this were so then we would all know about it, because the authorities in Norway, Sweden and Denmark would surely have told us.. However, I believe that this may be a somewhat naive assumption which fails to take into account the way in which the real world works.

It would have been impossible for these countries to have even begun to phase out the use of dental amalgam without it being noticed by those companies who make large amounts of money supplying the necessary component metals and alloys to the dental profession all around the world. In the event of any one of these three countries announcing any correlation between amalgam phase-out and a significant reduction in the incidence of certain health problems, a primary source of income for these companies would come under threat on the global scale.

I think that it would have been perfectly possible, as well as highly likely, that when faced with such a threat to the source of their wealth, the interested parties would have sought to impose legal injunctions against the countries involved from making any announcement which connected the phase-out of amalgam with any corresponding improvement in public health. And I also believe that the grounds on which such legal impositions would have been granted is that, as stated in John Skjelvik's report, no "causal" link had been scientifically demonstrated.

Nevertheless, I would argue that it is now incumbent upon the scientific community to at least consider what the "research gaps" cited in Skjelvik's report might be. For example, it appears that those people who take the anecdotal evidence against the safety of dental amalgam seriously are only ever able to imagine that any health problems caused must be due to the toxic properties of the mercury content of the amalgam. However, it is quite easily demonstrated that both the dental profession and the scientific community at large are completely ignorant of the thermoelectric behavior of dental amalgams.

The thermoelectric effect is a natural phenomenon whereby metals, mixtures of metals and dissimilar metals in contact with each other are able to generate an electrical potential when subjected to a temperature difference, and there is no electrolysis involved. The metals do not have to be in contact with any electrolytic fluid and it is not necessary for them to undergo any electrochemical corrosion for the thermoelectric potential to be generated.

Further information about the thermoelectric effect can be found in the LinkedIn “Evidence Based Dentistry” group at:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6602887092123029504

However, and in spite of the fact that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth, it appears that experimental procedures to measure the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam have never been carried out. So here is clearly identified one example of what John M Skjelvik described as "research gaps". I propose that there is no justification for this research gap to exist.

John M Skjelvik declares that further scientific research "may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all". One interpretation of this statement might be that he is calling on scientists to find the explanation for the fact that there is a strong statistical correlation between the phase-out of dental amalgam and a significant reduction in the incidence of neurological/psychiatric disorders in Norway.

Whatever the case, the phase-out of dental amalgam in Norway, Sweden and Denmark provided the perfect opportunity for large-scale studies of an epidemiological nature to be carried out, and for any resulting changes in public health to be monitored. It is not reasonable to argue that such an opportunity could have been neglected. The authorities in these countries must know if there is or if there is not any such correlation to be seen.

The very least that we should be doing is asking them the appropriate questions.

And lastly, to consider it the other way round - if it had been possible to establish that there was no discernable reduction in the incidence of any health disorders in Norway, Sweden or Denmark corresponding with the phase-out of amalgam, wouldn't those companies who make money supplying the component metals for amalgam have made sure that we all knew about it?

I think it's almost certain that they would, because they're the ones with the wealth and the power to control what we are allowed to know. That's how the world works.

The above was posted previously to the "Public Health Dentistry" group at LinkedIn. This post can be viewed securely via the link:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6680802023035715584

Best regards,

Keith P Walsh
keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 5:55:25 AM UTC+13, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> In recent years the use of dental amalgam has been phased out in the countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
>
> It has often been suspected that the presence of amalgam dental fillings in people’s teeth is the real cause of many neurological and so-called psychiatric disorders.
>
> However, it appears that no-one has bothered to ask the authorities in either Norway, Sweden or Denmark if the phasing out of amalgam has resulted in any reduction in the incidence of disorders such as these.
>
> In his report, "Review of Norwegian experiences with the phase-out of dental amalgam use", analyst John M. Skjelvik states that, although no causal relationship between amalgam fillings and human health problems had yet been established, "many research gaps existed, which, if addressed, may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all.“
>
> This statement appears to imply that the argument over the "controversy" referred to may have been resurrected recently in Norway for some reason.
>
> Is it possible that the phasing out of dental amalgam has indeed corresponded with a reduction in the incidence many neurological and psychiatric disorders?
>
> It may be argued that if this were so then we would all know about it, because the authorities in Norway, Sweden and Denmark would surely have told us. However, I believe that this may be a somewhat naive assumption which fails to take into account the way in which the real world works.
>
> It would have been impossible for these countries to have even begun to phase out the use of dental amalgam without it being noticed by those companies who make large amounts of money supplying the necessary component metals and alloys to the dental profession all around the world. In the event of any one of these three countries announcing any correlation between amalgam phase-out and a significant reduction in the incidence of certain health problems, a primary source of income for these companies would come under threat on the global scale.
>
> I think that it would have been perfectly possible, as well as highly likely, that when faced with such a threat to the source of their wealth, the interested parties would have sought to impose legal injunctions against the countries involved from making any announcement which connected the phase-out of amalgam with any corresponding improvement in public health. And I also believe that the grounds on which such legal impositions would have been granted is that, as stated in John Skjelvik's report, no "causal" link had been scientifically demonstrated.
>
> Nevertheless, I would argue that it is now incumbent upon the scientific community to at least consider what the "research gaps" cited in Skjelvik's report might be. For example, it appears that those people who take the anecdotal evidence against the safety of dental amalgam seriously are only ever able to imagine that any health problems caused must be due to the toxic properties of the mercury content of the amalgam. However, it is quite easily demonstrated that both the dental profession and the scientific community at large are completely ignorant of the thermoelectric behavior of dental amalgams.
>
> The thermoelectric effect is a natural phenomenon whereby metals, mixtures of metals and dissimilar metals in contact with each other are able to generate an electrical potential when subjected to a temperature difference, and there is no electrolysis involved. The metals do not have to be in contact with any electrolytic fluid and it is not necessary for them to undergo any electrochemical corrosion for the thermoelectric potential to be generated.
>
> Further information about the thermoelectric effect can be found in the LinkedIn “Evidence Based Dentistry” group at:
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6602887092123029504
>
> However, and in spite of the fact that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth, it appears that experimental procedures to measure the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam have never been carried out. So here is clearly identified one example of what John M Skjelvik described as "research gaps". I propose that there is no justification for this research gap to exist.
>
> John M Skjelvik declares that further scientific research "may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all". One interpretation of this statement might be that he is calling on scientists to find the explanation for the fact that there is a strong statistical correlation between the phase-out of dental amalgam and a significant reduction in the incidence of neurological/psychiatric disorders in Norway.
>
> Whatever the case, the phase-out of dental amalgam in Norway, Sweden and Denmark provided the perfect opportunity for large-scale studies of an epidemiological nature to be carried out, and for any resulting changes in public health to be monitored. It is not reasonable to argue that such an opportunity could have been neglected. The authorities in these countries must know if there is or if there is not any such correlation to be seen.
>
> The very least that we should be doing is asking them the appropriate questions.
>
> And lastly, to consider it the other way round - if it had been possible to establish that there was no discernable reduction in the incidence of any health disorders in Norway, Sweden or Denmark corresponding with the phase-out of amalgam, wouldn't those companies who make money supplying the component metals for amalgam have made sure that we all knew about it?
>
> I think it's almost certain that they would, because they're the ones with the wealth and the power to control what we are allowed to know. That's how the world works.
>
> The above was posted previously to the "Public Health Dentistry" group at LinkedIn. This post can be viewed securely via the link:
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6680802023035715584
>
> Best regards,
>
> Keith P Walsh
> keith....@btinternet.com
I believe Hulda Clark, who speaks of the dangers of amalgam, has said the white fillings may be worse when they fluoresce under UV light since some of those have contained radioactive material. I don't know if they still do.

On 6/11/2021 11:55 PM, Brian Sandle wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 5:55:25 AM UTC+13, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> I believe Hulda Clark, who speaks of the dangers of amalgam, has said the white fillings may be worse when they fluoresce under UV light since some of those have contained radioactive material. I don't know if they still do.
>

That's one I hadn't heard. I suppose anything's possible--if (for
example) some resins used quartz that was contaminated with some
radioactive substance.
Some of the resins can be broken down (if memory serves, by bacteria)
into BPA, which is a "hormone disruptor"--but this seems to be more an
issue with resins used as pit/fissure sealants than those used in fillings.
There isn't a perfect filling material; they all come with their own set
of advantages and disadvantages.

On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 4:37:21 AM UTC+12, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> On 6/11/2021 11:55 PM, Brian Sandle wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 5:55:25 AM UTC+13, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > I believe Hulda Clark, who speaks of the dangers of amalgam, has said the white fillings may be worse when they fluoresce under UV light since some of those have contained radioactive material. I don't know if they still do.
> >
> That's one I hadn't heard. I suppose anything's possible--if (for
> example) some resins used quartz that was contaminated with some
> radioactive substance.
> Some of the resins can be broken down (if memory serves, by bacteria)
> into BPA, which is a "hormone disruptor"--but this seems to be more an
> issue with resins used as pit/fissure sealants than those used in fillings.
> There isn't a perfect filling material; they all come with their own set
> of advantages and disadvantages.
Uranium stopped being used in about mid 1980s I read.

On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 4:55:58 AM UTC+1, Brian Sandle wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 5:55:25 AM UTC+13, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > In recent years the use of dental amalgam has been phased out in the countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
> >
> > It has often been suspected that the presence of amalgam dental fillings in people’s teeth is the real cause of many neurological and so-called psychiatric disorders.
> >
> > However, it appears that no-one has bothered to ask the authorities in either Norway, Sweden or Denmark if the phasing out of amalgam has resulted in any reduction in the incidence of disorders such as these.
> >
> > In his report, "Review of Norwegian experiences with the phase-out of dental amalgam use", analyst John M. Skjelvik states that, although no causal relationship between amalgam fillings and human health problems had yet been established, "many research gaps existed, which, if addressed, may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all.“
> >
> > This statement appears to imply that the argument over the "controversy" referred to may have been resurrected recently in Norway for some reason.
> >
> > Is it possible that the phasing out of dental amalgam has indeed corresponded with a reduction in the incidence many neurological and psychiatric disorders?
> >
> > It may be argued that if this were so then we would all know about it, because the authorities in Norway, Sweden and Denmark would surely have told us. However, I believe that this may be a somewhat naive assumption which fails to take into account the way in which the real world works.
> >
> > It would have been impossible for these countries to have even begun to phase out the use of dental amalgam without it being noticed by those companies who make large amounts of money supplying the necessary component metals and alloys to the dental profession all around the world. In the event of any one of these three countries announcing any correlation between amalgam phase-out and a significant reduction in the incidence of certain health problems, a primary source of income for these companies would come under threat on the global scale.
> >
> > I think that it would have been perfectly possible, as well as highly likely, that when faced with such a threat to the source of their wealth, the interested parties would have sought to impose legal injunctions against the countries involved from making any announcement which connected the phase-out of amalgam with any corresponding improvement in public health. And I also believe that the grounds on which such legal impositions would have been granted is that, as stated in John Skjelvik's report, no "causal" link had been scientifically demonstrated.
> >
> > Nevertheless, I would argue that it is now incumbent upon the scientific community to at least consider what the "research gaps" cited in Skjelvik's report might be. For example, it appears that those people who take the anecdotal evidence against the safety of dental amalgam seriously are only ever able to imagine that any health problems caused must be due to the toxic properties of the mercury content of the amalgam. However, it is quite easily demonstrated that both the dental profession and the scientific community at large are completely ignorant of the thermoelectric behavior of dental amalgams.
> >
> > The thermoelectric effect is a natural phenomenon whereby metals, mixtures of metals and dissimilar metals in contact with each other are able to generate an electrical potential when subjected to a temperature difference, and there is no electrolysis involved. The metals do not have to be in contact with any electrolytic fluid and it is not necessary for them to undergo any electrochemical corrosion for the thermoelectric potential to be generated.
> >
> > Further information about the thermoelectric effect can be found in the LinkedIn “Evidence Based Dentistry” group at:
> >
> > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6602887092123029504
> >
> > However, and in spite of the fact that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth, it appears that experimental procedures to measure the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam have never been carried out. So here is clearly identified one example of what John M Skjelvik described as "research gaps". I propose that there is no justification for this research gap to exist.
> >
> > John M Skjelvik declares that further scientific research "may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all". One interpretation of this statement might be that he is calling on scientists to find the explanation for the fact that there is a strong statistical correlation between the phase-out of dental amalgam and a significant reduction in the incidence of neurological/psychiatric disorders in Norway.
> >
> > Whatever the case, the phase-out of dental amalgam in Norway, Sweden and Denmark provided the perfect opportunity for large-scale studies of an epidemiological nature to be carried out, and for any resulting changes in public health to be monitored. It is not reasonable to argue that such an opportunity could have been neglected. The authorities in these countries must know if there is or if there is not any such correlation to be seen.
> >
> > The very least that we should be doing is asking them the appropriate questions.
> >
> > And lastly, to consider it the other way round - if it had been possible to establish that there was no discernable reduction in the incidence of any health disorders in Norway, Sweden or Denmark corresponding with the phase-out of amalgam, wouldn't those companies who make money supplying the component metals for amalgam have made sure that we all knew about it?
> >
> > I think it's almost certain that they would, because they're the ones with the wealth and the power to control what we are allowed to know. That's how the world works.
> >
> > The above was posted previously to the "Public Health Dentistry" group at LinkedIn. This post can be viewed securely via the link:
> >
> > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6680802023035715584
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Keith P Walsh
> > keith....@btinternet.com
> I believe Hulda Clark, who speaks of the dangers of amalgam, has said the white fillings may be worse when they fluoresce under UV light since some of those have contained radioactive material. I don't know if they still do..

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your contribution. It was first identified around two hundred years ago that when a material which is known to consist of an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors is subjected to a temperature difference, an electromagnetic disturbance can be detected near the external surfaces of the material. This phenomenon is explained by the thermoelectric behavior of such a material.

Dental amalgam is accurately described as an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors. However, in spite of the enormous advances in the sensitivity of electrical and electromagnetic measuring devices which have taken place over the last two centuries, it appears that the dental profession knows NOTHING AT ALL about the thermoelectrical behavior of dental amalgams.

A poster highlighting this ignorance will be presented at the Virtual Conference on Thermoelectrics next month. You can view this poster at any of the following web addresses:

Personal website:
http://www.bookbootusers.co.uk/V_Poster_2021_v1.pdf

Academia website:
https://independentresearcher.academia.edu/KeithWalsh

LinkedIn Group “Evidence Based Dentistry EBD”
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698545567350784

LinkedIn Group “Public Health Dentistry”
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808697800562475008

LinkedIn Group “Thermoelectrics”
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698956672045056

Best regards,

Keith P Walsh

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 8:15:40 PM UTC+12, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 4:55:58 AM UTC+1, Brian Sandle wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 5:55:25 AM UTC+13, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > > In recent years the use of dental amalgam has been phased out in the countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
> > >
> > > It has often been suspected that the presence of amalgam dental fillings in people’s teeth is the real cause of many neurological and so-called psychiatric disorders.
> > >
> > > However, it appears that no-one has bothered to ask the authorities in either Norway, Sweden or Denmark if the phasing out of amalgam has resulted in any reduction in the incidence of disorders such as these.
> > >
> > > In his report, "Review of Norwegian experiences with the phase-out of dental amalgam use", analyst John M. Skjelvik states that, although no causal relationship between amalgam fillings and human health problems had yet been established, "many research gaps existed, which, if addressed, may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all.“
> > >
> > > This statement appears to imply that the argument over the "controversy" referred to may have been resurrected recently in Norway for some reason.
> > >
> > > Is it possible that the phasing out of dental amalgam has indeed corresponded with a reduction in the incidence many neurological and psychiatric disorders?
> > >
> > > It may be argued that if this were so then we would all know about it, because the authorities in Norway, Sweden and Denmark would surely have told us. However, I believe that this may be a somewhat naive assumption which fails to take into account the way in which the real world works.
> > >
> > > It would have been impossible for these countries to have even begun to phase out the use of dental amalgam without it being noticed by those companies who make large amounts of money supplying the necessary component metals and alloys to the dental profession all around the world. In the event of any one of these three countries announcing any correlation between amalgam phase-out and a significant reduction in the incidence of certain health problems, a primary source of income for these companies would come under threat on the global scale.
> > >
> > > I think that it would have been perfectly possible, as well as highly likely, that when faced with such a threat to the source of their wealth, the interested parties would have sought to impose legal injunctions against the countries involved from making any announcement which connected the phase-out of amalgam with any corresponding improvement in public health. And I also believe that the grounds on which such legal impositions would have been granted is that, as stated in John Skjelvik's report, no "causal" link had been scientifically demonstrated.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless, I would argue that it is now incumbent upon the scientific community to at least consider what the "research gaps" cited in Skjelvik's report might be. For example, it appears that those people who take the anecdotal evidence against the safety of dental amalgam seriously are only ever able to imagine that any health problems caused must be due to the toxic properties of the mercury content of the amalgam. However, it is quite easily demonstrated that both the dental profession and the scientific community at large are completely ignorant of the thermoelectric behavior of dental amalgams.
> > >
> > > The thermoelectric effect is a natural phenomenon whereby metals, mixtures of metals and dissimilar metals in contact with each other are able to generate an electrical potential when subjected to a temperature difference, and there is no electrolysis involved. The metals do not have to be in contact with any electrolytic fluid and it is not necessary for them to undergo any electrochemical corrosion for the thermoelectric potential to be generated.
> > >
> > > Further information about the thermoelectric effect can be found in the LinkedIn “Evidence Based Dentistry” group at:
> > >
> > > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6602887092123029504
> > >
> > > However, and in spite of the fact that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth, it appears that experimental procedures to measure the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam have never been carried out. So here is clearly identified one example of what John M Skjelvik described as "research gaps". I propose that there is no justification for this research gap to exist.
> > >
> > > John M Skjelvik declares that further scientific research "may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all". One interpretation of this statement might be that he is calling on scientists to find the explanation for the fact that there is a strong statistical correlation between the phase-out of dental amalgam and a significant reduction in the incidence of neurological/psychiatric disorders in Norway.
> > >
> > > Whatever the case, the phase-out of dental amalgam in Norway, Sweden and Denmark provided the perfect opportunity for large-scale studies of an epidemiological nature to be carried out, and for any resulting changes in public health to be monitored. It is not reasonable to argue that such an opportunity could have been neglected. The authorities in these countries must know if there is or if there is not any such correlation to be seen.
> > >
> > > The very least that we should be doing is asking them the appropriate questions.
> > >
> > > And lastly, to consider it the other way round - if it had been possible to establish that there was no discernable reduction in the incidence of any health disorders in Norway, Sweden or Denmark corresponding with the phase-out of amalgam, wouldn't those companies who make money supplying the component metals for amalgam have made sure that we all knew about it?
> > >
> > > I think it's almost certain that they would, because they're the ones with the wealth and the power to control what we are allowed to know. That's how the world works.
> > >
> > > The above was posted previously to the "Public Health Dentistry" group at LinkedIn. This post can be viewed securely via the link:
> > >
> > > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6680802023035715584
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Keith P Walsh
> > > keith....@btinternet.com
> > I believe Hulda Clark, who speaks of the dangers of amalgam, has said the white fillings may be worse when they fluoresce under UV light since some of those have contained radioactive material. I don't know if they still do.
> Hi Brian,
>
> Thanks for your contribution. It was first identified around two hundred years ago that when a material which is known to consist of an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors is subjected to a temperature difference, an electromagnetic disturbance can be detected near the external surfaces of the material. This phenomenon is explained by the thermoelectric behavior of such a material.
>
> Dental amalgam is accurately described as an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors. However, in spite of the enormous advances in the sensitivity of electrical and electromagnetic measuring devices which have taken place over the last two centuries, it appears that the dental profession knows NOTHING AT ALL about the thermoelectrical behavior of dental amalgams.
>
> A poster highlighting this ignorance will be presented at the Virtual Conference on Thermoelectrics next month. You can view this poster at any of the following web addresses:
>
> Personal website:
> http://www.bookbootusers.co.uk/V_Poster_2021_v1.pdf
>
> Academia website:
> https://independentresearcher.academia.edu/KeithWalsh
>
> LinkedIn Group “Evidence Based Dentistry EBD”
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698545567350784
>
> LinkedIn Group “Public Health Dentistry”
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808697800562475008
>
> LinkedIn Group “Thermoelectrics”
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698956672045056
> Best regards,
>
> Keith P Walsh
After a recent amalgam I held one meter probe with my fingers and showed the dentist nearl 0.5 volts on that tooth and a bit less on the one net to it.. So there would be a potential between the two teeth which I wonder might trigger tooth grinding in sleep. But that would be electrochemical not thermoelectric.

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 8:15:40 PM UTC+12, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 4:55:58 AM UTC+1, Brian Sandle wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 5:55:25 AM UTC+13, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > > In recent years the use of dental amalgam has been phased out in the countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
> > >
> > > It has often been suspected that the presence of amalgam dental fillings in people’s teeth is the real cause of many neurological and so-called psychiatric disorders.
> > >
> > > However, it appears that no-one has bothered to ask the authorities in either Norway, Sweden or Denmark if the phasing out of amalgam has resulted in any reduction in the incidence of disorders such as these.
> > >
> > > In his report, "Review of Norwegian experiences with the phase-out of dental amalgam use", analyst John M. Skjelvik states that, although no causal relationship between amalgam fillings and human health problems had yet been established, "many research gaps existed, which, if addressed, may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all.“
> > >
> > > This statement appears to imply that the argument over the "controversy" referred to may have been resurrected recently in Norway for some reason.
> > >
> > > Is it possible that the phasing out of dental amalgam has indeed corresponded with a reduction in the incidence many neurological and psychiatric disorders?
> > >
> > > It may be argued that if this were so then we would all know about it, because the authorities in Norway, Sweden and Denmark would surely have told us. However, I believe that this may be a somewhat naive assumption which fails to take into account the way in which the real world works.
> > >
> > > It would have been impossible for these countries to have even begun to phase out the use of dental amalgam without it being noticed by those companies who make large amounts of money supplying the necessary component metals and alloys to the dental profession all around the world. In the event of any one of these three countries announcing any correlation between amalgam phase-out and a significant reduction in the incidence of certain health problems, a primary source of income for these companies would come under threat on the global scale.
> > >
> > > I think that it would have been perfectly possible, as well as highly likely, that when faced with such a threat to the source of their wealth, the interested parties would have sought to impose legal injunctions against the countries involved from making any announcement which connected the phase-out of amalgam with any corresponding improvement in public health. And I also believe that the grounds on which such legal impositions would have been granted is that, as stated in John Skjelvik's report, no "causal" link had been scientifically demonstrated.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless, I would argue that it is now incumbent upon the scientific community to at least consider what the "research gaps" cited in Skjelvik's report might be. For example, it appears that those people who take the anecdotal evidence against the safety of dental amalgam seriously are only ever able to imagine that any health problems caused must be due to the toxic properties of the mercury content of the amalgam. However, it is quite easily demonstrated that both the dental profession and the scientific community at large are completely ignorant of the thermoelectric behavior of dental amalgams.
> > >
> > > The thermoelectric effect is a natural phenomenon whereby metals, mixtures of metals and dissimilar metals in contact with each other are able to generate an electrical potential when subjected to a temperature difference, and there is no electrolysis involved. The metals do not have to be in contact with any electrolytic fluid and it is not necessary for them to undergo any electrochemical corrosion for the thermoelectric potential to be generated.
> > >
> > > Further information about the thermoelectric effect can be found in the LinkedIn “Evidence Based Dentistry” group at:
> > >
> > > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6602887092123029504
> > >
> > > However, and in spite of the fact that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth, it appears that experimental procedures to measure the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam have never been carried out. So here is clearly identified one example of what John M Skjelvik described as "research gaps". I propose that there is no justification for this research gap to exist.
> > >
> > > John M Skjelvik declares that further scientific research "may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all". One interpretation of this statement might be that he is calling on scientists to find the explanation for the fact that there is a strong statistical correlation between the phase-out of dental amalgam and a significant reduction in the incidence of neurological/psychiatric disorders in Norway.
> > >
> > > Whatever the case, the phase-out of dental amalgam in Norway, Sweden and Denmark provided the perfect opportunity for large-scale studies of an epidemiological nature to be carried out, and for any resulting changes in public health to be monitored. It is not reasonable to argue that such an opportunity could have been neglected. The authorities in these countries must know if there is or if there is not any such correlation to be seen.
> > >
> > > The very least that we should be doing is asking them the appropriate questions.
> > >
> > > And lastly, to consider it the other way round - if it had been possible to establish that there was no discernable reduction in the incidence of any health disorders in Norway, Sweden or Denmark corresponding with the phase-out of amalgam, wouldn't those companies who make money supplying the component metals for amalgam have made sure that we all knew about it?
> > >
> > > I think it's almost certain that they would, because they're the ones with the wealth and the power to control what we are allowed to know. That's how the world works.
> > >
> > > The above was posted previously to the "Public Health Dentistry" group at LinkedIn. This post can be viewed securely via the link:
> > >
> > > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6680802023035715584
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Keith P Walsh
> > > keith....@btinternet.com
> > I believe Hulda Clark, who speaks of the dangers of amalgam, has said the white fillings may be worse when they fluoresce under UV light since some of those have contained radioactive material. I don't know if they still do.
> Hi Brian,
>
> Thanks for your contribution. It was first identified around two hundred years ago that when a material which is known to consist of an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors is subjected to a temperature difference, an electromagnetic disturbance can be detected near the external surfaces of the material. This phenomenon is explained by the thermoelectric behavior of such a material.
>
> Dental amalgam is accurately described as an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors. However, in spite of the enormous advances in the sensitivity of electrical and electromagnetic measuring devices which have taken place over the last two centuries, it appears that the dental profession knows NOTHING AT ALL about the thermoelectrical behavior of dental amalgams.
>
> A poster highlighting this ignorance will be presented at the Virtual Conference on Thermoelectrics next month. You can view this poster at any of the following web addresses:
>
> Personal website:
> http://www.bookbootusers.co.uk/V_Poster_2021_v1.pdf
>
> Academia website:
> https://independentresearcher.academia.edu/KeithWalsh
>
> LinkedIn Group “Evidence Based Dentistry EBD”
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698545567350784
>
> LinkedIn Group “Public Health Dentistry”
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808697800562475008
>
> LinkedIn Group “Thermoelectrics”
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698956672045056
> Best regards,
>
> Keith P Walsh
Would your image be the non-gamma2 amalgam with more copper perhaps?
And note for a thermoelectric effect a temperature difference between junctions is needed.
As for thermochemical effects search back. It has been said fillings should be removed in an electrical order. Why?
I was on this group 25 years ago: https://groups.google.com/g/sci.med.dentistry/c/OEf8j2DHF3U/m/lNO0EIsRWSsJ

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 7:18:15 PM UTC+1, Brian Sandle wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 8:15:40 PM UTC+12, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 4:55:58 AM UTC+1, Brian Sandle wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 5:55:25 AM UTC+13, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > > > In recent years the use of dental amalgam has been phased out in the countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
> > > >
> > > > It has often been suspected that the presence of amalgam dental fillings in people’s teeth is the real cause of many neurological and so-called psychiatric disorders.
> > > >
> > > > However, it appears that no-one has bothered to ask the authorities in either Norway, Sweden or Denmark if the phasing out of amalgam has resulted in any reduction in the incidence of disorders such as these.
> > > >
> > > > In his report, "Review of Norwegian experiences with the phase-out of dental amalgam use", analyst John M. Skjelvik states that, although no causal relationship between amalgam fillings and human health problems had yet been established, "many research gaps existed, which, if addressed, may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all.“
> > > >
> > > > This statement appears to imply that the argument over the "controversy" referred to may have been resurrected recently in Norway for some reason.
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible that the phasing out of dental amalgam has indeed corresponded with a reduction in the incidence many neurological and psychiatric disorders?
> > > >
> > > > It may be argued that if this were so then we would all know about it, because the authorities in Norway, Sweden and Denmark would surely have told us. However, I believe that this may be a somewhat naive assumption which fails to take into account the way in which the real world works.
> > > >
> > > > It would have been impossible for these countries to have even begun to phase out the use of dental amalgam without it being noticed by those companies who make large amounts of money supplying the necessary component metals and alloys to the dental profession all around the world. In the event of any one of these three countries announcing any correlation between amalgam phase-out and a significant reduction in the incidence of certain health problems, a primary source of income for these companies would come under threat on the global scale.
> > > >
> > > > I think that it would have been perfectly possible, as well as highly likely, that when faced with such a threat to the source of their wealth, the interested parties would have sought to impose legal injunctions against the countries involved from making any announcement which connected the phase-out of amalgam with any corresponding improvement in public health. And I also believe that the grounds on which such legal impositions would have been granted is that, as stated in John Skjelvik's report, no "causal" link had been scientifically demonstrated.
> > > >
> > > > Nevertheless, I would argue that it is now incumbent upon the scientific community to at least consider what the "research gaps" cited in Skjelvik's report might be. For example, it appears that those people who take the anecdotal evidence against the safety of dental amalgam seriously are only ever able to imagine that any health problems caused must be due to the toxic properties of the mercury content of the amalgam. However, it is quite easily demonstrated that both the dental profession and the scientific community at large are completely ignorant of the thermoelectric behavior of dental amalgams.
> > > >
> > > > The thermoelectric effect is a natural phenomenon whereby metals, mixtures of metals and dissimilar metals in contact with each other are able to generate an electrical potential when subjected to a temperature difference, and there is no electrolysis involved. The metals do not have to be in contact with any electrolytic fluid and it is not necessary for them to undergo any electrochemical corrosion for the thermoelectric potential to be generated.
> > > >
> > > > Further information about the thermoelectric effect can be found in the LinkedIn “Evidence Based Dentistry” group at:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6602887092123029504
> > > >
> > > > However, and in spite of the fact that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth, it appears that experimental procedures to measure the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam have never been carried out. So here is clearly identified one example of what John M Skjelvik described as "research gaps". I propose that there is no justification for this research gap to exist.
> > > >
> > > > John M Skjelvik declares that further scientific research "may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all". One interpretation of this statement might be that he is calling on scientists to find the explanation for the fact that there is a strong statistical correlation between the phase-out of dental amalgam and a significant reduction in the incidence of neurological/psychiatric disorders in Norway.
> > > >
> > > > Whatever the case, the phase-out of dental amalgam in Norway, Sweden and Denmark provided the perfect opportunity for large-scale studies of an epidemiological nature to be carried out, and for any resulting changes in public health to be monitored. It is not reasonable to argue that such an opportunity could have been neglected. The authorities in these countries must know if there is or if there is not any such correlation to be seen.
> > > >
> > > > The very least that we should be doing is asking them the appropriate questions.
> > > >
> > > > And lastly, to consider it the other way round - if it had been possible to establish that there was no discernable reduction in the incidence of any health disorders in Norway, Sweden or Denmark corresponding with the phase-out of amalgam, wouldn't those companies who make money supplying the component metals for amalgam have made sure that we all knew about it?
> > > >
> > > > I think it's almost certain that they would, because they're the ones with the wealth and the power to control what we are allowed to know. That's how the world works.
> > > >
> > > > The above was posted previously to the "Public Health Dentistry" group at LinkedIn. This post can be viewed securely via the link:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6680802023035715584
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Keith P Walsh
> > > > keith....@btinternet.com
> > > I believe Hulda Clark, who speaks of the dangers of amalgam, has said the white fillings may be worse when they fluoresce under UV light since some of those have contained radioactive material. I don't know if they still do.
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > Thanks for your contribution. It was first identified around two hundred years ago that when a material which is known to consist of an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors is subjected to a temperature difference, an electromagnetic disturbance can be detected near the external surfaces of the material. This phenomenon is explained by the thermoelectric behavior of such a material.
> >
> > Dental amalgam is accurately described as an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors. However, in spite of the enormous advances in the sensitivity of electrical and electromagnetic measuring devices which have taken place over the last two centuries, it appears that the dental profession knows NOTHING AT ALL about the thermoelectrical behavior of dental amalgams.
> >
> > A poster highlighting this ignorance will be presented at the Virtual Conference on Thermoelectrics next month. You can view this poster at any of the following web addresses:
> >
> > Personal website:
> > http://www.bookbootusers.co.uk/V_Poster_2021_v1.pdf
> >
> > Academia website:
> > https://independentresearcher.academia.edu/KeithWalsh
> >
> > LinkedIn Group “Evidence Based Dentistry EBD”
> > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698545567350784
> >
> > LinkedIn Group “Public Health Dentistry”
> > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808697800562475008
> >
> > LinkedIn Group “Thermoelectrics”
> > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698956672045056
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Keith P Walsh
> After a recent amalgam I held one meter probe with my fingers and showed the dentist nearl 0.5 volts on that tooth and a bit less on the one net to it. So there would be a potential between the two teeth which I wonder might trigger tooth grinding in sleep. But that would be electrochemical not thermoelectric.

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 7:18:15 PM UTC+1, Brian Sandle wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 8:15:40 PM UTC+12, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 4:55:58 AM UTC+1, Brian Sandle wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 5:55:25 AM UTC+13, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > > > In recent years the use of dental amalgam has been phased out in the countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
> > > >
> > > > It has often been suspected that the presence of amalgam dental fillings in people’s teeth is the real cause of many neurological and so-called psychiatric disorders.
> > > >
> > > > However, it appears that no-one has bothered to ask the authorities in either Norway, Sweden or Denmark if the phasing out of amalgam has resulted in any reduction in the incidence of disorders such as these.
> > > >
> > > > In his report, "Review of Norwegian experiences with the phase-out of dental amalgam use", analyst John M. Skjelvik states that, although no causal relationship between amalgam fillings and human health problems had yet been established, "many research gaps existed, which, if addressed, may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all.“
> > > >
> > > > This statement appears to imply that the argument over the "controversy" referred to may have been resurrected recently in Norway for some reason.
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible that the phasing out of dental amalgam has indeed corresponded with a reduction in the incidence many neurological and psychiatric disorders?
> > > >
> > > > It may be argued that if this were so then we would all know about it, because the authorities in Norway, Sweden and Denmark would surely have told us. However, I believe that this may be a somewhat naive assumption which fails to take into account the way in which the real world works.
> > > >
> > > > It would have been impossible for these countries to have even begun to phase out the use of dental amalgam without it being noticed by those companies who make large amounts of money supplying the necessary component metals and alloys to the dental profession all around the world. In the event of any one of these three countries announcing any correlation between amalgam phase-out and a significant reduction in the incidence of certain health problems, a primary source of income for these companies would come under threat on the global scale.
> > > >
> > > > I think that it would have been perfectly possible, as well as highly likely, that when faced with such a threat to the source of their wealth, the interested parties would have sought to impose legal injunctions against the countries involved from making any announcement which connected the phase-out of amalgam with any corresponding improvement in public health. And I also believe that the grounds on which such legal impositions would have been granted is that, as stated in John Skjelvik's report, no "causal" link had been scientifically demonstrated.
> > > >
> > > > Nevertheless, I would argue that it is now incumbent upon the scientific community to at least consider what the "research gaps" cited in Skjelvik's report might be. For example, it appears that those people who take the anecdotal evidence against the safety of dental amalgam seriously are only ever able to imagine that any health problems caused must be due to the toxic properties of the mercury content of the amalgam. However, it is quite easily demonstrated that both the dental profession and the scientific community at large are completely ignorant of the thermoelectric behavior of dental amalgams.
> > > >
> > > > The thermoelectric effect is a natural phenomenon whereby metals, mixtures of metals and dissimilar metals in contact with each other are able to generate an electrical potential when subjected to a temperature difference, and there is no electrolysis involved. The metals do not have to be in contact with any electrolytic fluid and it is not necessary for them to undergo any electrochemical corrosion for the thermoelectric potential to be generated.
> > > >
> > > > Further information about the thermoelectric effect can be found in the LinkedIn “Evidence Based Dentistry” group at:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6602887092123029504
> > > >
> > > > However, and in spite of the fact that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth, it appears that experimental procedures to measure the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam have never been carried out. So here is clearly identified one example of what John M Skjelvik described as "research gaps". I propose that there is no justification for this research gap to exist.
> > > >
> > > > John M Skjelvik declares that further scientific research "may settle the dental amalgam controversy once and for all". One interpretation of this statement might be that he is calling on scientists to find the explanation for the fact that there is a strong statistical correlation between the phase-out of dental amalgam and a significant reduction in the incidence of neurological/psychiatric disorders in Norway.
> > > >
> > > > Whatever the case, the phase-out of dental amalgam in Norway, Sweden and Denmark provided the perfect opportunity for large-scale studies of an epidemiological nature to be carried out, and for any resulting changes in public health to be monitored. It is not reasonable to argue that such an opportunity could have been neglected. The authorities in these countries must know if there is or if there is not any such correlation to be seen.
> > > >
> > > > The very least that we should be doing is asking them the appropriate questions.
> > > >
> > > > And lastly, to consider it the other way round - if it had been possible to establish that there was no discernable reduction in the incidence of any health disorders in Norway, Sweden or Denmark corresponding with the phase-out of amalgam, wouldn't those companies who make money supplying the component metals for amalgam have made sure that we all knew about it?
> > > >
> > > > I think it's almost certain that they would, because they're the ones with the wealth and the power to control what we are allowed to know. That's how the world works.
> > > >
> > > > The above was posted previously to the "Public Health Dentistry" group at LinkedIn. This post can be viewed securely via the link:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6680802023035715584
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Keith P Walsh
> > > > keith....@btinternet.com
> > > I believe Hulda Clark, who speaks of the dangers of amalgam, has said the white fillings may be worse when they fluoresce under UV light since some of those have contained radioactive material. I don't know if they still do.
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > Thanks for your contribution. It was first identified around two hundred years ago that when a material which is known to consist of an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors is subjected to a temperature difference, an electromagnetic disturbance can be detected near the external surfaces of the material. This phenomenon is explained by the thermoelectric behavior of such a material.
> >
> > Dental amalgam is accurately described as an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors. However, in spite of the enormous advances in the sensitivity of electrical and electromagnetic measuring devices which have taken place over the last two centuries, it appears that the dental profession knows NOTHING AT ALL about the thermoelectrical behavior of dental amalgams.
> >
> > A poster highlighting this ignorance will be presented at the Virtual Conference on Thermoelectrics next month. You can view this poster at any of the following web addresses:
> >
> > Personal website:
> > http://www.bookbootusers.co.uk/V_Poster_2021_v1.pdf
> >
> > Academia website:
> > https://independentresearcher.academia.edu/KeithWalsh
> >
> > LinkedIn Group “Evidence Based Dentistry EBD”
> > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698545567350784
> >
> > LinkedIn Group “Public Health Dentistry”
> > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808697800562475008
> >
> > LinkedIn Group “Thermoelectrics”
> > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698956672045056
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Keith P Walsh
> After a recent amalgam I held one meter probe with my fingers and showed the dentist nearl 0.5 volts on that tooth and a bit less on the one net to it. So there would be a potential between the two teeth which I wonder might trigger tooth grinding in sleep. But that would be electrochemical not thermoelectric.

On 6/17/2021 6:09 AM, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
> You assert:
>
> "But that would be electrochemical not thermoelectric."
>
> The generation of an electrical potential by electrochemical means would necessitate a degree of electrochemical corrosion of the metals taking place. Was there any evidence of this happening?
>
> Otherwise there is no scientific justification for declaring, "that would be electrochemical not thermoelectric".
>
> Thomas Johann Seebeck applied a temperature difference across a sample of material which he knew to be an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors, and he found that he could detect an electromagnetic disturbance near the surface of the material (there was no electrolysis involved).
>
> Amalgam fillings in teeth are subjected to temperature differences all the time (ice-cream, hot coffee). What is the scientific justification for not carrying out experimental investigations to determine whether an electromagnetic disturbance can be detected near the surface of a typical dental amalgam when a temperature difference is applied across it?
>
> (That's a rhetorical question by the way. I'm quite certain that there isn't any.)
>
> Keith P Walsh
>

Of course there's corrosion taking place.

On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 3:28:06 PM UTC+1, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> On 6/17/2021 6:09 AM, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > You assert:
> >
> > "But that would be electrochemical not thermoelectric."
> >
> > The generation of an electrical potential by electrochemical means would necessitate a degree of electrochemical corrosion of the metals taking place. Was there any evidence of this happening?
> >
> > Otherwise there is no scientific justification for declaring, "that would be electrochemical not thermoelectric".
> >
> > Thomas Johann Seebeck applied a temperature difference across a sample of material which he knew to be an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar electrical conductors, and he found that he could detect an electromagnetic disturbance near the surface of the material (there was no electrolysis involved).
> >
> > Amalgam fillings in teeth are subjected to temperature differences all the time (ice-cream, hot coffee). What is the scientific justification for not carrying out experimental investigations to determine whether an electromagnetic disturbance can be detected near the surface of a typical dental amalgam when a temperature difference is applied across it?
> >
> > (That's a rhetorical question by the way. I'm quite certain that there isn't any.)
> >
> > Keith P Walsh
> >
> Of course there's corrosion taking place.

Hi Steven,

You asserted:

"Of course there's corrosion taking place."

Is this just the presumption of someone who has been erroneously taught to believe that dissimilar metals in contact with each other are only able to generate an electrical potential if they are involved in an electrolytic reaction?

A dentist once told me that a newly placed amalgam undergoes a small amount of initial corrosion, but the thin layer of oxide produced adheres to the surface and effectively prevents any further corrosion from taking place. This seemed pretty reasonable to me. Do you think he was mistaken?

You'd have thought that experimental investigations would have been carried out to determine if amalgam fillings corrode at a rate which is able to produce the kind of measurement that Brian describes.

Whatever the case, none of this accounts for the thermoelectric or electromagnetic behavior of dental amalgams, neither of which is dependent upon electrochemical corrosion.

Keith P Walsh

On 6/17/2021 2:21 PM, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> Hi Steven,
>
> You asserted:
>
> "Of course there's corrosion taking place."
>
> Is this just the presumption of someone who has been erroneously taught to believe that dissimilar metals in contact with each other are only able to generate an electrical potential if they are involved in an electrolytic reaction?
>
> A dentist once told me that a newly placed amalgam undergoes a small amount of initial corrosion, but the thin layer of oxide produced adheres to the surface and effectively prevents any further corrosion from taking place. This seemed pretty reasonable to me. Do you think he was mistaken?

I think you're probably misinterpreting what he said. We are taught
that amalgam tarnishes at the cavo-surface margin; the significance of
this is that it diminishes the percolation of saliva at the margin. I
no longer have my dental materials texts, and being that it's been over
45 years since my basic dental materials, I don't remember precisely
which phase or phases of amalgam is said to be responsible for this
corrosion.
Also, the composition of amalgam has changed over time--the biggest
changes being the omission of zinc from most alloy, and the inclusion of
copper in some. Some amalgams retained their appearance (from a week or
so after placement); others darkened significantly. This may be due to
differences in composition; of course other factors (such as diet) may
be involved.
You are right of course that this has no direct bearing on thermoelectic
behavior.

Steve

>
> You'd have thought that experimental investigations would have been carried out to determine if amalgam fillings corrode at a rate which is able to produce the kind of measurement that Brian describes.
>
> Whatever the case, none of this accounts for the thermoelectric or electromagnetic behavior of dental amalgams, neither of which is dependent upon electrochemical corrosion.
>
> Keith P Walsh
>

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 12:40:30 PM UTC+12, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> On 6/17/2021 2:21 PM, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > Hi Steven,
> >
> > You asserted:
> >
> > "Of course there's corrosion taking place."
> >
> > Is this just the presumption of someone who has been erroneously taught to believe that dissimilar metals in contact with each other are only able to generate an electrical potential if they are involved in an electrolytic reaction?
> >
> > A dentist once told me that a newly placed amalgam undergoes a small amount of initial corrosion, but the thin layer of oxide produced adheres to the surface and effectively prevents any further corrosion from taking place. This seemed pretty reasonable to me. Do you think he was mistaken?
> I think you're probably misinterpreting what he said. We are taught
> that amalgam tarnishes at the cavo-surface margin; the significance of
> this is that it diminishes the percolation of saliva at the margin. I
> no longer have my dental materials texts, and being that it's been over
> 45 years since my basic dental materials, I don't remember precisely
> which phase or phases of amalgam is said to be responsible for this
> corrosion.
> Also, the composition of amalgam has changed over time--the biggest
> changes being the omission of zinc from most alloy, and the inclusion of
> copper in some. Some amalgams retained their appearance (from a week or
> so after placement); others darkened significantly. This may be due to
> differences in composition; of course other factors (such as diet) may
> be involved.
> You are right of course that this has no direct bearing on thermoelectic
> behavior.
>
> Steve
> >
> > You'd have thought that experimental investigations would have been carried out to determine if amalgam fillings corrode at a rate which is able to produce the kind of measurement that Brian describes.
> >
> > Whatever the case, none of this accounts for the thermoelectric or electromagnetic behavior of dental amalgams, neither of which is dependent upon electrochemical corrosion.
> >
> > Keith P Walsh
> >
Hot water cylinders can have a sacrificial anode.
The electrolytic effect is a voltage between dissimilar conductors in an electrolyte. An ammeter between them will register a current flow. The old zinc carbon cells used to polarize after a while, before the zinc was all used. So a depolarizer was included. So I guess that will happen to the electric cell between two dental fillings of differing composition. A depolariser could be a tooth brush. Though if we think of the electrolyte as our blood via the tooth dentine and blood vessels of the jaw, or neurological circuits, I wonder about any depolariser there.

I find amalgam fillings to have a strong battery taste on my tongue initially which reduces after weeks. (Used to use my tongue to check charge on a battery.)

Even adjacent fillings, maybe touching, have a taste between them. So their contact must not be perfect.

I think those effects will be much stronger than Seebeck, Peltier or Thomson thermoelectric effects.

On Sunday, June 20, 2021 at 5:06:00 AM UTC+1, Brian Sandle wrote:
> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 12:40:30 PM UTC+12, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> > On 6/17/2021 2:21 PM, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > > Hi Steven,
> > >
> > > You asserted:
> > >
> > > "Of course there's corrosion taking place."
> > >
> > > Is this just the presumption of someone who has been erroneously taught to believe that dissimilar metals in contact with each other are only able to generate an electrical potential if they are involved in an electrolytic reaction?
> > >
> > > A dentist once told me that a newly placed amalgam undergoes a small amount of initial corrosion, but the thin layer of oxide produced adheres to the surface and effectively prevents any further corrosion from taking place. This seemed pretty reasonable to me. Do you think he was mistaken?
> > I think you're probably misinterpreting what he said. We are taught
> > that amalgam tarnishes at the cavo-surface margin; the significance of
> > this is that it diminishes the percolation of saliva at the margin. I
> > no longer have my dental materials texts, and being that it's been over
> > 45 years since my basic dental materials, I don't remember precisely
> > which phase or phases of amalgam is said to be responsible for this
> > corrosion.
> > Also, the composition of amalgam has changed over time--the biggest
> > changes being the omission of zinc from most alloy, and the inclusion of
> > copper in some. Some amalgams retained their appearance (from a week or
> > so after placement); others darkened significantly. This may be due to
> > differences in composition; of course other factors (such as diet) may
> > be involved.
> > You are right of course that this has no direct bearing on thermoelectic
> > behavior.
> >
> > Steve
> > >
> > > You'd have thought that experimental investigations would have been carried out to determine if amalgam fillings corrode at a rate which is able to produce the kind of measurement that Brian describes.
> > >
> > > Whatever the case, none of this accounts for the thermoelectric or electromagnetic behavior of dental amalgams, neither of which is dependent upon electrochemical corrosion.
> > >
> > > Keith P Walsh
> > >
> Hot water cylinders can have a sacrificial anode.
> The electrolytic effect is a voltage between dissimilar conductors in an electrolyte. An ammeter between them will register a current flow. The old zinc carbon cells used to polarize after a while, before the zinc was all used. So a depolarizer was included. So I guess that will happen to the electric cell between two dental fillings of differing composition. A depolariser could be a tooth brush. Though if we think of the electrolyte as our blood via the tooth dentine and blood vessels of the jaw, or neurological circuits, I wonder about any depolariser there.
>
> I find amalgam fillings to have a strong battery taste on my tongue initially which reduces after weeks. (Used to use my tongue to check charge on a battery.)
>
> Even adjacent fillings, maybe touching, have a taste between them. So their contact must not be perfect.
>
> I think those effects will be much stronger than Seebeck, Peltier or Thomson thermoelectric effects.

Hi Brian,

You say:

“I think those effects will be much stronger than Seebeck, Peltier or Thomson thermoelectric effects.”

I’d be confident in asserting that, when it comes to how these effects measure up in a typical dental amalgam, this is just guesswork.

It was the celebrated US physicist Richard P Feynman who insisted that, “It doesn’t make any difference how smart the guy is who makes the guess, if it disagrees with experiment it’s wrong.”

Can you think of an experiment to show if your guess is wrong or not?

And, if so, can you then offer any rational scientific explanation as to why it should appear that no such experiment has ever been carried out?

(Remember that amalgam fillings are placed in children’s teeth.)

Best regards,

Keith P Walsh

PS, I feel I owe you guys a significant “thank you” for keeping this thread going at the top of the list with your replies. Thanks. Keep ‘em coming.

On Sunday, June 20, 2021 at 2:16:22 PM UTC+1, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> On Sunday, June 20, 2021 at 5:06:00 AM UTC+1, Brian Sandle wrote:
> > On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 12:40:30 PM UTC+12, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> > > On 6/17/2021 2:21 PM, Keith P Walsh wrote:
> > > > Hi Steven,
> > > >
> > > > You asserted:
> > > >
> > > > "Of course there's corrosion taking place."
> > > >
> > > > Is this just the presumption of someone who has been erroneously taught to believe that dissimilar metals in contact with each other are only able to generate an electrical potential if they are involved in an electrolytic reaction?
> > > >
> > > > A dentist once told me that a newly placed amalgam undergoes a small amount of initial corrosion, but the thin layer of oxide produced adheres to the surface and effectively prevents any further corrosion from taking place. This seemed pretty reasonable to me. Do you think he was mistaken?
> > > I think you're probably misinterpreting what he said. We are taught
> > > that amalgam tarnishes at the cavo-surface margin; the significance of
> > > this is that it diminishes the percolation of saliva at the margin. I
> > > no longer have my dental materials texts, and being that it's been over
> > > 45 years since my basic dental materials, I don't remember precisely
> > > which phase or phases of amalgam is said to be responsible for this
> > > corrosion.
> > > Also, the composition of amalgam has changed over time--the biggest
> > > changes being the omission of zinc from most alloy, and the inclusion of
> > > copper in some. Some amalgams retained their appearance (from a week or
> > > so after placement); others darkened significantly. This may be due to
> > > differences in composition; of course other factors (such as diet) may
> > > be involved.
> > > You are right of course that this has no direct bearing on thermoelectic
> > > behavior.
> > >
> > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > You'd have thought that experimental investigations would have been carried out to determine if amalgam fillings corrode at a rate which is able to produce the kind of measurement that Brian describes.
> > > >
> > > > Whatever the case, none of this accounts for the thermoelectric or electromagnetic behavior of dental amalgams, neither of which is dependent upon electrochemical corrosion.
> > > >
> > > > Keith P Walsh
> > > >
> > Hot water cylinders can have a sacrificial anode.
> > The electrolytic effect is a voltage between dissimilar conductors in an electrolyte. An ammeter between them will register a current flow. The old zinc carbon cells used to polarize after a while, before the zinc was all used. So a depolarizer was included. So I guess that will happen to the electric cell between two dental fillings of differing composition. A depolariser could be a tooth brush. Though if we think of the electrolyte as our blood via the tooth dentine and blood vessels of the jaw, or neurological circuits, I wonder about any depolariser there.
> >
> > I find amalgam fillings to have a strong battery taste on my tongue initially which reduces after weeks. (Used to use my tongue to check charge on a battery.)
> >
> > Even adjacent fillings, maybe touching, have a taste between them. So their contact must not be perfect.
> >
> > I think those effects will be much stronger than Seebeck, Peltier or Thomson thermoelectric effects.
> Hi Brian,
>
> You say:
>
> “I think those effects will be much stronger than Seebeck, Peltier or Thomson thermoelectric effects.”
>
> I’d be confident in asserting that, when it comes to how these effects measure up in a typical dental amalgam, this is just guesswork.
>
> It was the celebrated US physicist Richard P Feynman who insisted that, “It doesn’t make any difference how smart the guy is who makes the guess, if it disagrees with experiment it’s wrong.”
>
> Can you think of an experiment to show if your guess is wrong or not?
>
> And, if so, can you then offer any rational scientific explanation as to why it should appear that no such experiment has ever been carried out?
>
> (Remember that amalgam fillings are placed in children’s teeth.)
> Best regards,
>
> Keith P Walsh
> PS, I feel I owe you guys a significant “thank you” for keeping this thread going at the top of the list with your replies. Thanks. Keep ‘em coming.

>“thank you for keeping this thread going at the top of the list with your replies."

However I am always happy to give it an unsolicited "boost" myself whenever appropriate.

The purpose of the original message in this thread was to give notice of the poster presentation, "Thermoelectric Eddy Current in Dental Amalgams", which has been posted to several websites for preview. In particular, at the LinkedIn group "Thermoelectrics" it has received a degree of attention, gaining acknowledgement from several specialists in that field.

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6808698956672045056

Here's my guess. Metal amalgam dental fillings are able to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in people's heads as a result of their thermoelectric behavior, and in so doing they have been the cause of a large proportion of the neurological and so-called "psychiatric" disorders suffered by countless individuals over the last couple of centuries.

What Richard P Feynman actually said was, " - if it disagrees with experiment, or if it disagrees with experience, it's wrong."

What we now need is an experiment, or an experience, which would demonstrate if my guess is wrong or not.

But wait! In recent years the use of dental amalgam has been phased out in the countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Surely this represents an experience which would give an indication if my guess is wrong or not. All we need to do is examine the records of incidences of neurological and so-called "psychiatric" disorders in those countries to see if there has been any significant reduction since amalgam was phased out.

Can anyone offer any rational scientific explanation as to why it appears that this has not been done?

I think I can. See article, "Dental Amalgam Phased Out in Norway, Sweden and Denmark - Calls for Further Research", which was posted to the LinkedIn Group "Public Health Dentistry" in June 2020:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6680802023035715584

Best regards,

Keith P Walsh