I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.

I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire ng
contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog, a
Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!

Is this true??? Is there really nothing in this ng??? Or is this some
bug in Thunderbird.

Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is still
here.

Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng reader.

--
Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
San Francisco

On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
> I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.
>
> I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire ng
> contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog, a
> Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!
>
> Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this some
> bug in Thunderbird.
>
> Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is still
> here.
>
> Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng reader.
TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic consists
of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics that compare
these systems. There is also some discussions of what is tested and how
as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause anomalous results.
Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between these
runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition, there is no
point in running and reporting unless either some systems have released
newer versions or the testing itself has been updated.
Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new results
and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation will follow.
Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop in and there is a
little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum is here for a dedicated
group of people who are interested and knowledgeable in symbolic
mathematics when they have something to say.
--
Jeff Barnett

On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:

> On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>
>> I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.
>>
>> I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire ng
>> contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog, a
>> Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!
>>
>> Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this
>> some bug in Thunderbird.
>>
>> Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
>> still here.
>>
>> Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng
>> reader.
>
> TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
> posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic consists
> of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics that compare
> these systems. There is also some discussions of what is tested and how
> as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause anomalous results.
>
> Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between these
> runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition, there is no
> point in running and reporting unless either some systems have released
> newer versions or the testing itself has been updated.
>
> Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new results
> and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation will follow.
> Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop in and there is a
> little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum is here for a dedicated
> group of people who are interested and knowledgeable in symbolic
> mathematics when they have something to say.

That's fine. That's why I'm interested in the ng.

But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often anyone posts.

It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!

My experience was this:

Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.

I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number of
old postings. (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)

I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.

For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I either
read it or click it Unread.

I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large number
of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.

Today I did exactly that ... except ...

After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed interesting,
so I clicked on it to read it ...

.... and it gave an Expired message.

So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...

.... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message which
I saw above! The entire message list pane was blank except for that one
message!

I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not. It
was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!

So I ask you. When you look at this ng right now, how many messages are
you seeing?

Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
mention above, my question, and your answer. NOTHING ELSE!

--
Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
San Francisco

On 8/10/2024 4:40 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
> On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>
>> On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.
>>>
>>> I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire ng
>>> contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog, a
>>> Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!
>>>
>>> Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this
>>> some bug in Thunderbird.
>>>
>>> Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
>>> still here.
>>>
>>> Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng
>>> reader.
>>
>> TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
>> posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic
>> consists of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics
>> that compare these systems. There is also some discussions of what is
>> tested and how as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause
>> anomalous results.
>>
>> Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between these
>> runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition, there is
>> no point in running and reporting unless either some systems have
>> released newer versions or the testing itself has been updated.
>>
>> Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new results
>> and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation will
>> follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop in and
>> there is a little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum is here
>> for a dedicated group of people who are interested and knowledgeable
>> in symbolic mathematics when they have something to say.
>
> That's fine.  That's why I'm interested in the ng.
>
> But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often anyone
> posts.
>
> It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!
>
> My experience was this:
>
> Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.
>
> I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number of
> old postings.  (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)
>
> I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.
>
> For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I either
> read it or click it Unread.
>
> I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large number
> of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.
>
> Today I did exactly that ... except ...
>
> After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed interesting,
> so I clicked on it to read it ...
>
> ... and it gave an Expired message.
>
> So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...
>
> ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message which
> I saw above!  The entire message list pane was blank except for that one
> message!
>
> I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not.  It
> was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!
>
> So I ask you.  When you look at this ng right now, how many messages are
> you seeing?
>
> Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
> mention above, my question, and your answer.  NOTHING ELSE!
I see your two messages, a prior one from me, and a fourth from "Mild
Shock". You DO know that TB has retention settings for news groups and
news group servers? Those settings can effect what you are able to see
and when to delete msg copies on your machine.
Just recall the point I tried to make above: message traffic to this
group occurs at sort of random times and it occurs in spurts. What YOU
will see and what YOU will retain depends on when you look and the
retention policies you have imposed.
--
Jeff Barnett

On 8/10/24 4:32 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:

> On 8/10/2024 4:40 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

>> On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>>
>>>> I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.
>>>>
>>>> I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire
>>>> ng contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog,
>>>> a Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!
>>>>
>>>> Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this
>>>> some bug in Thunderbird.
>>>>
>>>> Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
>>>> still here.
>>>>
>>>> Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng
>>>> reader.
>>>
>>> TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
>>> posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic
>>> consists of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics
>>> that compare these systems. There is also some discussions of what is
>>> tested and how as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause
>>> anomalous results.
>>>
>>> Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between
>>> these runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition,
>>> there is no point in running and reporting unless either some systems
>>> have released newer versions or the testing itself has been updated.
>>>
>>> Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new results
>>> and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation will
>>> follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop in and
>>> there is a little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum is here
>>> for a dedicated group of people who are interested and knowledgeable
>>> in symbolic mathematics when they have something to say.
>>
>> That's fine.  That's why I'm interested in the ng.
>>
>> But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often anyone
>> posts.
>>
>> It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!
>>
>> My experience was this:
>>
>> Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.
>>
>> I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number of
>> old postings.  (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)
>>
>> I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.
>>
>> For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I
>> either read it or click it Unread.
>>
>> I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large
>> number of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.
>>
>> Today I did exactly that ... except ...
>>
>> After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed interesting,
>> so I clicked on it to read it ...
>>
>> ... and it gave an Expired message.
>>
>> So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...
>>
>> ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message
>> which I saw above!  The entire message list pane was blank except for
>> that one message!
>>
>> I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not.  It
>> was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!
>>
>> So I ask you.  When you look at this ng right now, how many messages
>> are you seeing?
>>
>> Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
>> mention above, my question, and your answer.  NOTHING ELSE!
>
> I see your two messages, a prior one from me, and a fourth from "Mild
> Shock". You DO know that TB has retention settings for news groups and
> news group servers? Those settings can effect what you are able to see
> and when to delete msg copies on your machine.
>
> Just recall the point I tried to make above: message traffic to this
> group occurs at sort of random times and it occurs in spurts. What YOU
> will see and what YOU will retain depends on when you look and the
> retention policies you have imposed.

Ah! That makes sense. I didn't know about TB's retention settings -- I
never knowingly made any setting.

I'll check it out. Thanks!

--
Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
San Francisco

On 8/10/24 4:37 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

> On 8/10/24 4:32 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>
>> On 8/10/2024 4:40 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>
>>> On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.
>>>>>
>>>>> I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire
>>>>> ng contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and Prolog,
>>>>> a Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this
>>>>> some bug in Thunderbird.
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
>>>>> still here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different ng
>>>>> reader.
>>>>
>>>> TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
>>>> posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic
>>>> consists of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics
>>>> that compare these systems. There is also some discussions of what
>>>> is tested and how as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause
>>>> anomalous results.
>>>>
>>>> Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between
>>>> these runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition,
>>>> there is no point in running and reporting unless either some
>>>> systems have released newer versions or the testing itself has been
>>>> updated.
>>>>
>>>> Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new
>>>> results and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation
>>>> will follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop in
>>>> and there is a little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum is
>>>> here for a dedicated group of people who are interested and
>>>> knowledgeable in symbolic mathematics when they have something to say.
>>>
>>> That's fine.  That's why I'm interested in the ng.
>>>
>>> But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often anyone
>>> posts.
>>>
>>> It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!
>>>
>>> My experience was this:
>>>
>>> Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.
>>>
>>> I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number of
>>> old postings.  (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)
>>>
>>> I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.
>>>
>>> For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I
>>> either read it or click it Unread.
>>>
>>> I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large
>>> number of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.
>>>
>>> Today I did exactly that ... except ...
>>>
>>> After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed
>>> interesting, so I clicked on it to read it ...
>>>
>>> ... and it gave an Expired message.
>>>
>>> So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...
>>>
>>> ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message
>>> which I saw above!  The entire message list pane was blank except for
>>> that one message!
>>>
>>> I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not.
>>> It was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!
>>>
>>> So I ask you.  When you look at this ng right now, how many messages
>>> are you seeing?
>>>
>>> Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
>>> mention above, my question, and your answer.  NOTHING ELSE!
>>
>> I see your two messages, a prior one from me, and a fourth from "Mild
>> Shock". You DO know that TB has retention settings for news groups and
>> news group servers? Those settings can effect what you are able to see
>> and when to delete msg copies on your machine.
>>
>> Just recall the point I tried to make above: message traffic to this
>> group occurs at sort of random times and it occurs in spurts. What YOU
>> will see and what YOU will retain depends on when you look and the
>> retention policies you have imposed.
>
> Ah!  That makes sense.  I didn't know about TB's retention settings -- I
> never knowingly made any setting.
>
> I'll check it out.  Thanks!

*All* my accounts -- email, ng's, etc -- are already set to Do Not
Delete Anything.

However, I now see that practically every ng I am subscribed to has
mostly expired messages.

So I guess it must be the policy at news.eternal-september.org, my ng
source.

--
Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
San Francisco

On 8/10/24 4:56 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

> On 8/10/24 4:37 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>
>> On 8/10/24 4:32 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/10/2024 4:40 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>
>>>> On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the entire
>>>>>> ng contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM and
>>>>>> Prolog, a Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is this
>>>>>> some bug in Thunderbird.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
>>>>>> still here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different
>>>>>> ng reader.
>>>>>
>>>>> TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only sees
>>>>> posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the traffic
>>>>> consists of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and statistics
>>>>> that compare these systems. There is also some discussions of what
>>>>> is tested and how as well as system idiosyncrasies that may cause
>>>>> anomalous results.
>>>>>
>>>>> Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between
>>>>> these runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition,
>>>>> there is no point in running and reporting unless either some
>>>>> systems have released newer versions or the testing itself has been
>>>>> updated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new
>>>>> results and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation
>>>>> will follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop
>>>>> in and there is a little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum
>>>>> is here for a dedicated group of people who are interested and
>>>>> knowledgeable in symbolic mathematics when they have something to say.
>>>>
>>>> That's fine.  That's why I'm interested in the ng.
>>>>
>>>> But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often
>>>> anyone posts.
>>>>
>>>> It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!
>>>>
>>>> My experience was this:
>>>>
>>>> Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.
>>>>
>>>> I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number
>>>> of old postings.  (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)
>>>>
>>>> I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.
>>>>
>>>> For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I
>>>> either read it or click it Unread.
>>>>
>>>> I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large
>>>> number of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.
>>>>
>>>> Today I did exactly that ... except ...
>>>>
>>>> After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed
>>>> interesting, so I clicked on it to read it ...
>>>>
>>>> ... and it gave an Expired message.
>>>>
>>>> So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...
>>>>
>>>> ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message
>>>> which I saw above!  The entire message list pane was blank except
>>>> for that one message!
>>>>
>>>> I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not.
>>>> It was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!
>>>>
>>>> So I ask you.  When you look at this ng right now, how many messages
>>>> are you seeing?
>>>>
>>>> Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
>>>> mention above, my question, and your answer.  NOTHING ELSE!
>>>
>>> I see your two messages, a prior one from me, and a fourth from "Mild
>>> Shock". You DO know that TB has retention settings for news groups
>>> and news group servers? Those settings can effect what you are able
>>> to see and when to delete msg copies on your machine.
>>>
>>> Just recall the point I tried to make above: message traffic to this
>>> group occurs at sort of random times and it occurs in spurts. What
>>> YOU will see and what YOU will retain depends on when you look and
>>> the retention policies you have imposed.
>>
>> Ah!  That makes sense.  I didn't know about TB's retention settings --
>> I never knowingly made any setting.
>>
>> I'll check it out.  Thanks!
>
> *All* my accounts -- email, ng's, etc -- are already set to Do Not
> Delete Anything.
>
> However, I now see that practically every ng I am subscribed to has
> mostly expired messages.
>
> So I guess it must be the policy at news.eternal-september.org, my ng
> source.

I accidentally hit Send too early, before asking recommendations for a
news server, if any, with a longer retention policy.

For $$ reasons at the moment (please don't ask) it has to be a free
service ... which I guess severely limits my choices. Oh, well ...

--
Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
San Francisco

On 8/10/2024 5:58 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
> On 8/10/24 4:56 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>
>> On 8/10/24 4:37 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/10/24 4:32 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/10/2024 4:40 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the
>>>>>>> entire ng contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM
>>>>>>> and Prolog, a Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is
>>>>>>> this some bug in Thunderbird.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really is
>>>>>>> still here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a different
>>>>>>> ng reader.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only
>>>>>> sees posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the
>>>>>> traffic consists of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and
>>>>>> statistics that compare these systems. There is also some
>>>>>> discussions of what is tested and how as well as system
>>>>>> idiosyncrasies that may cause anomalous results.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between
>>>>>> these runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In addition,
>>>>>> there is no point in running and reporting unless either some
>>>>>> systems have released newer versions or the testing itself has
>>>>>> been updated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new
>>>>>> results and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate conversation
>>>>>> will follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you or I will pop
>>>>>> in and there is a little flurry of messages. Otherwise, this forum
>>>>>> is here for a dedicated group of people who are interested and
>>>>>> knowledgeable in symbolic mathematics when they have something to
>>>>>> say.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's fine.  That's why I'm interested in the ng.
>>>>>
>>>>> But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often
>>>>> anyone posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!
>>>>>
>>>>> My experience was this:
>>>>>
>>>>> Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.
>>>>>
>>>>> I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large number
>>>>> of old postings.  (I don't remember offhand what the number is.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is new.
>>>>>
>>>>> For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I
>>>>> either read it or click it Unread.
>>>>>
>>>>> I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large
>>>>> number of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today I did exactly that ... except ...
>>>>>
>>>>> After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed
>>>>> interesting, so I clicked on it to read it ...
>>>>>
>>>>> ... and it gave an Expired message.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...
>>>>>
>>>>> ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message
>>>>> which I saw above!  The entire message list pane was blank except
>>>>> for that one message!
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had not.
>>>>> It was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!
>>>>>
>>>>> So I ask you.  When you look at this ng right now, how many
>>>>> messages are you seeing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one I
>>>>> mention above, my question, and your answer.  NOTHING ELSE!
>>>>
>>>> I see your two messages, a prior one from me, and a fourth from
>>>> "Mild Shock". You DO know that TB has retention settings for news
>>>> groups and news group servers? Those settings can effect what you
>>>> are able to see and when to delete msg copies on your machine.
>>>>
>>>> Just recall the point I tried to make above: message traffic to this
>>>> group occurs at sort of random times and it occurs in spurts. What
>>>> YOU will see and what YOU will retain depends on when you look and
>>>> the retention policies you have imposed.
>>>
>>> Ah!  That makes sense.  I didn't know about TB's retention settings
>>> -- I never knowingly made any setting.
>>>
>>> I'll check it out.  Thanks!
>>
>> *All* my accounts -- email, ng's, etc -- are already set to Do Not
>> Delete Anything.
>>
>> However, I now see that practically every ng I am subscribed to has
>> mostly expired messages.
>>
>> So I guess it must be the policy at news.eternal-september.org, my ng
>> source.
>
> I accidentally hit Send too early, before asking recommendations for a
> news server, if any, with a longer retention policy.
>
> For $$ reasons at the moment (please don't ask) it has to be a free
> service ... which I guess severely limits my choices.  Oh, well ...
I'm using the same news server as you.
--
Jeff Barnett

On 8/10/24 6:26 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
> On 8/10/2024 5:58 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>> On 8/10/24 4:56 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/10/24 4:37 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/10/24 4:32 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/10/2024 4:40 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/10/24 2:50 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/10/2024 2:21 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I clicked on a message here and got a "Not Found" error.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I then clicked on "Delete All Expired Messages" ... and the
>>>>>>>> entire ng contents disappeared except for the single post "LLM
>>>>>>>> and Prolog, a Marriage in Heaven? (Re: 42 is the answer)" !!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is this true???  Is there really nothing in this ng???  Or is
>>>>>>>> this some bug in Thunderbird.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone please post and let me know that No, everything really
>>>>>>>> is still here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then I can try to figure out the TB bug or switch to a
>>>>>>>> different ng reader.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TB works fine with this newsgroup. This forum is one that only
>>>>>>> sees posts when there is something to say. Almost all of the
>>>>>>> traffic consists of descriptions of symbolic systems' tests and
>>>>>>> statistics that compare these systems. There is also some
>>>>>>> discussions of what is tested and how as well as system
>>>>>>> idiosyncrasies that may cause anomalous results.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Running tests is labor intensive and there are time gaps between
>>>>>>> these runs to think about how to grow the test suite. In
>>>>>>> addition, there is no point in running and reporting unless
>>>>>>> either some systems have released newer versions or the testing
>>>>>>> itself has been updated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every once in a while, one of the testers either releases new
>>>>>>> results and/ or asks for comments then an appropriate
>>>>>>> conversation will follow. Occasionally an interloper such as you
>>>>>>> or I will pop in and there is a little flurry of messages.
>>>>>>> Otherwise, this forum is here for a dedicated group of people
>>>>>>> who are interested and knowledgeable in symbolic mathematics
>>>>>>> when they have something to say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's fine.  That's why I'm interested in the ng.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But my question was not about what the ng is FOR, or how often
>>>>>> anyone posts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was about whether there are ANY MESSAGES AT ALL in the ng!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My experience was this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every time this ng shows that it has a new posting, I open the ng.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I always see the new posting ... and I always see the large
>>>>>> number of old postings.  (I don't remember offhand what the
>>>>>> number is.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I click on TB's "Show unread" so that I can focus on whatever is
>>>>>> new.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For each new post (and yes, in this ng that is never very many) I
>>>>>> either read it or click it Unread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I then click on Show All ... and there, once again, are the large
>>>>>> number of old, and formerly new but now old, postings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today I did exactly that ... except ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After clicking on Show All, I saw an old one which seemed
>>>>>> interesting, so I clicked on it to read it ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... and it gave an Expired message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I clicked on TB's Delete All Expired Messages ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... and EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED, except for the one single message
>>>>>> which I saw above!  The entire message list pane was blank except
>>>>>> for that one message!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought maybe I had clicked on Show Unread again, but I had
>>>>>> not. It was still on Show All ... and All was only a single message!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I ask you.  When you look at this ng right now, how many
>>>>>> messages are you seeing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because I'm only seeing three messages IN THE ENTIRE NG: The one
>>>>>> I mention above, my question, and your answer. NOTHING ELSE!
>>>>>
>>>>> I see your two messages, a prior one from me, and a fourth from
>>>>> "Mild Shock". You DO know that TB has retention settings for news
>>>>> groups and news group servers? Those settings can effect what you
>>>>> are able to see and when to delete msg copies on your machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just recall the point I tried to make above: message traffic to
>>>>> this group occurs at sort of random times and it occurs in spurts.
>>>>> What YOU will see and what YOU will retain depends on when you
>>>>> look and the retention policies you have imposed.
>>>>
>>>> Ah!  That makes sense.  I didn't know about TB's retention settings
>>>> -- I never knowingly made any setting.
>>>>
>>>> I'll check it out.  Thanks!
>>>
>>> *All* my accounts -- email, ng's, etc -- are already set to Do Not
>>> Delete Anything.
>>>
>>> However, I now see that practically every ng I am subscribed to has
>>> mostly expired messages.
>>>
>>> So I guess it must be the policy at news.eternal-september.org, my
>>> ng source.
>>
>> I accidentally hit Send too early, before asking recommendations for
>> a news server, if any, with a longer retention policy.
>>
>> For $$ reasons at the moment (please don't ask) it has to be a free
>> service ... which I guess severely limits my choices.  Oh, well ...
>
> I'm using the same news server as you.

I just now started using news.solani.org and I once again see everything
.... Well, I don't know if it's EVERYTHING -- I'm sure there must be very
old stuff that expired -- but I see 177 messages, anyway

-- Dudley Brooks, Artistic Director
Run For Your Life! ... it's a dance company!
San Francisco