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sci / sci.electronics.components / Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model

SubjectAuthor
* Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modeljrg lbt
+* Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modellegg
|`- Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modelAndrea Croci
`* Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modellegg
 +- Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modelPhil Hobbs
 `* Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modelPhil Hobbs
  `* Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modelDave Platt
   `* Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modelPhil Hobbs
    `* Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modeljfeng@my-deja.com
     `* Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modelPhil Hobbs
      +- Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modellegg
      `- Re: 2N3819 JFET spice modeljfeng@my-deja.com

1
Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: jrg lbt
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:14 UTC
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Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: jrglbt09@gmail.com (jrg lbt)
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El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:
> Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
> > model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help.
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jean-Marie
> >
> > --
> > P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
> > use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__).
> > +---------------------------------------------------------------+
> > | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
> > | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
> > | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
> > | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 |
> > +---------------------------------------------------------------+
> Voilà
> .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
> + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
> + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
> A+ Stef.
Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: legg
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 18:50 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: legg@nospam.magma.ca (legg)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 13:50:17 -0500
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On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
wrote:

>El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:
>> Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
>> > model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for your help.
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jean-Marie
>> >
>> > --
>> > P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
>> > use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__).
>> > +---------------------------------------------------------------+
>> > | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
>> > | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
>> > | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
>> > | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 |
>> > +---------------------------------------------------------------+
>> Voilà
>> .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
>> + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
>> + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
>> A+ Stef.
>Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!

from 1998 . . . .

RL

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: Andrea Croci
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 17:10 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
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From: andrea.croci@gmx.de (Andrea Croci)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 18:10:55 +0100
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On 01.03.22 19:50, legg wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:

>> Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!
>
> from 1998 . . . .
>
> RL

It's never too late to thank your fellow engineers.

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: legg
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:13 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: legg@nospam.magma.ca (legg)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 11:13:36 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
wrote:

>El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:
>> Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
>> > model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for your help.
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jean-Marie
>> >
>> > --
>> > P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
>> > use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__).
>> > +---------------------------------------------------------------+
>> > | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
>> > | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
>> > | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
>> > | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 |
>> > +---------------------------------------------------------------+
>> Voilà
>> .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
>> + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
>> + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
>> A+ Stef.
>Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!

..model 2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.304m Betatce=-.5 Rd=1 Rs=1
+ Lambda=2.25m Vto=-3 Vtotc=-2.5m Is=33.57f Isr=322.4f
+ N=1 Nr=2 Xti=3 Alpha=311.7u Vk=243.6 Cgd=1.6p M=.3622
+ Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=2.414p Kf=9.882E-18 Af=1 mfg=Vishay)

from current LTspice distribution.

2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.

RL

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: Phil Hobbs
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 14:29 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 10:29:22 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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legg wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:
>>> Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
>>>> model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for your help.
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jean-Marie
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
>>>> use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__).
>>>> +---------------------------------------------------------------+
>>>> | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
>>>> | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
>>>> | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
>>>> | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 |
>>>> +---------------------------------------------------------------+
>>> Voilà
>>> .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
>>> + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
>>> + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
>>> A+ Stef.
>> Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!
>
> .model 2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.304m Betatce=-.5 Rd=1 Rs=1
> + Lambda=2.25m Vto=-3 Vtotc=-2.5m Is=33.57f Isr=322.4f
> + N=1 Nr=2 Xti=3 Alpha=311.7u Vk=243.6 Cgd=1.6p M=.3622
> + Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=2.414p Kf=9.882E-18 Af=1 mfg=Vishay)
>
> from current LTspice distribution.
>
> 2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
> Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.
>

Yeah, using SPICE on a part with a 3:1 range of pinchoff voltage is
going to lead to a lot of reasonable-looking wrong answers (my
least-favorite kind).

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: Phil Hobbs
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 15:48 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 11:48:03 -0400
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legg wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:
>>> Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
>>>> model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for your help.
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jean-Marie
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
>>>> use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__).
>>>> +---------------------------------------------------------------+
>>>> | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
>>>> | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
>>>> | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
>>>> | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 |
>>>> +---------------------------------------------------------------+
>>> Voilà
>>> .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
>>> + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
>>> + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
>>> A+ Stef.
>> Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!
>
> .model 2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.304m Betatce=-.5 Rd=1 Rs=1
> + Lambda=2.25m Vto=-3 Vtotc=-2.5m Is=33.57f Isr=322.4f
> + N=1 Nr=2 Xti=3 Alpha=311.7u Vk=243.6 Cgd=1.6p M=.3622
> + Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=2.414p Kf=9.882E-18 Af=1 mfg=Vishay)
>
> from current LTspice distribution.
>
> 2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
> Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.

Wow, that's an amazingly crappy part, even for a JFET.

The Fairchild datasheet shows a 15:1 range of pinchoff voltages, and
that's from just one vendor.

Using SPICE on a part like that is going to generate a lot of
reasonable-looking wrong answers (my least-favorite kind).

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: Dave Platt
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 18:39 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
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Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
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In article <8ea114da-661e-405f-b96a-3a371d063c76@electrooptical.net>,
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>> 2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
>> Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.
>
>Wow, that's an amazingly crappy part, even for a JFET.
>
>The Fairchild datasheet shows a 15:1 range of pinchoff voltages, and
>that's from just one vendor.

I've always thought of 2N3819 as the JFET analog of the 2N3055 BJT.
It's a convenient part number into which you can reasonably throw a
whole lot of different JFET products. Test what you fab, and if they
don't meet tighter specs for a targeted part number, just call them
2N3819.

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: Phil Hobbs
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 20:30 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 16:30:15 -0400
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Dave Platt wrote:
> In article <8ea114da-661e-405f-b96a-3a371d063c76@electrooptical.net>,
> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>>> 2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
>>> Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.
>>
>> Wow, that's an amazingly crappy part, even for a JFET.
>>
>> The Fairchild datasheet shows a 15:1 range of pinchoff voltages, and
>> that's from just one vendor.
>
> I've always thought of 2N3819 as the JFET analog of the 2N3055 BJT.
> It's a convenient part number into which you can reasonably throw a
> whole lot of different JFET products. Test what you fab, and if they
> don't meet tighter specs for a targeted part number, just call them
> 2N3819.
>

They must have made them in saucepans. Actual _good_ JFETs, such as the
CPH3910, have much much tighter specs (and much lower noise).

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
"40,000 of them in stock"

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: jfeng@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
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Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: jf0303222@gmail.com (jfeng@my-deja.com)
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On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 1:30:18 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> They must have made them in saucepans. Actual _good_ JFETs, such as the
> CPH3910, have much much tighter specs (and much lower noise).
I always assumed it reflected the manufacturing processes available at the time. By that time, the planar diffused process was pretty common, and it was much better controlled than using the grown-junction or alloy-junction processes. Good engineers learned how to design circuits that could tolerate the variations in those processes and the variations produced by varying operating temperatures and voltages. Ion implantation produced much tighter ranges, but it was still not a common manufacturing process in the mid 1970s.

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: Phil Hobbs
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:30 UTC
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From: pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.components
Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 13:30:48 -0400
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jfeng@my-deja.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 1:30:18 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> They must have made them in saucepans. Actual _good_ JFETs, such as the
>> CPH3910, have much much tighter specs (and much lower noise).
> I always assumed it reflected the manufacturing processes available at the time. By that time, the planar diffused process was pretty common, and it was much better controlled than using the grown-junction or alloy-junction processes. Good engineers learned how to design circuits that could tolerate the variations in those processes and the variations produced by varying operating temperatures and voltages. Ion implantation produced much tighter ranges, but it was still not a common manufacturing process in the mid 1970s.
>

IIRC the usual planar JFET of that era has a Vp range of around 3:1.
This piece of crap's range is 15:1.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: legg
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Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 13:30:48 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>jfeng@my-deja.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 1:30:18 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> They must have made them in saucepans. Actual _good_ JFETs, such as the
>>> CPH3910, have much much tighter specs (and much lower noise).
>> I always assumed it reflected the manufacturing processes available at the time. By that time, the planar diffused process was pretty common, and it was much better controlled than using the grown-junction or alloy-junction processes. Good engineers learned how to design circuits that could tolerate the variations in those processes and the variations produced by varying operating temperatures and voltages. Ion implantation produced much tighter ranges, but it was still not a common manufacturing process in the mid 1970s.
>>
>
>IIRC the usual planar JFET of that era has a Vp range of around 3:1.
>This piece of crap's range is 15:1.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

I think the 3:1 range for one part number was achieved
by binning a series of numbers (typically 4 or more) from
the same mfring process batch.

RL

Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: jfeng@my-deja.com
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Subject: Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model
From: jf0303222@gmail.com (jfeng@my-deja.com)
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On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 10:30:51 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >
> IIRC the usual planar JFET of that era has a Vp range of around 3:1.
> This piece of crap's range is 15:1.
My recollection is that there were not very many other commercial JFETs for comparison. And the specs for the MOSFETs were even more poorly controlled because they did not understand the manufacturing hygiene required to control the surface states.

I remember the standard bipolar transistor hfe spec had a 3:1 range. They narrowed by testing and selecting parts, so there were lots of "families" with consecutive numbers and similar specs except for the buckets for the selected parameter (hfe, BVceo, fT, etc).

1

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