So, after my initial success with resurrecting some floppies using the
isopropyl alcohol trick, I immediately ran into a major hurdle when my
Performa 5320, the only Mac with a floppy I had working, suddenly
ceased to work... Taking it apart to try and fix it was a disaster, the
plastic internals simply crumbled to dust. By the time I got the
motherboard out, there was no way it was ever going in true again, but
it was hopeless anyway; the battery had vented and wrecked a bunch of
chips. :-| So, it turned into a salvage job and I now have a few more
spares for the parts bin.

I've been meaning to rebuild a PM 9600 for some time now. I had four of
the things, all in various states of distress; one that was
particularly souped up and had been my main battlestation for a number
of years but was very tatty, and the others that ranged from ugly on
the outside but fine on the inside to full of rot inside but
cosmetically fine. I had the makings, then, of at least one really nice
example.

So, a few months ago I stripped all four of them down to the frames,
cleaned everything and salvaged any piece worth keeping. This all went
into a couple of large PVC storage crates waiting for their time, and
that time is now! I need a machine with floppy drive to continue to
save my disks. :)

I started yesterday and after a little trial and error (mostly fixed by
removing all but a single pair of RAM sticks) have got a stock build
booting with the 9.0.4 retail CD. I want to have this machine run 7.6.1
only, I use this G4 MDD for OS9, but I cannot boot the 9600 with my 7.6
retail CD, so figured I'd install OS9 in the first instance to a
partition and then install 7.6.1 to another partition and go from
there. However, I am using a SCSI2SD adapter and the Drive Setup app on
the OS9 CD doesn't like it and will not initialize it.

Today's job will be to get a copy of FWB onto a Zip disk and see if I
can mount into that while booted into the OS9 CD. If so, I should be
able to work with the SD card hard drive. If not, I will think again!

Once I get past this issue and get the machine set up as stock with
7.6.1, I will then start to add upgrades; max out the RAM, add a Sonnet
G3 or G4 board, and fit a high-end Radeon video card (forget the model
numbers now but I've got several in my storage crates to choose from).
My goal is to have an absolute insane monster of an OS7 machine.

scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:

[a very nice summarization of ToDos]

> Once I get past this issue and get the machine set up as stock with 7.6.1, I
> will then start to add upgrades; max out the RAM, add a Sonnet G3 or G4
> board, and fit a high-end Radeon video card (forget the model numbers now
> but I've got several in my storage crates to choose from).

I have a PowerMac 7500 with 512 Megs of RAM, and a "G3"-Card (400 MHz, with 1
MB L2 cache, clocked at 200 MHz). Drawback: The RAM test needs almost a
Minute to commence.

I also added a High End Graphics card at one point. Allows me to run Unreal
and Unreal Tournament. :-)

I'm also a big fan of 7.6.1. I just like the lean and less bulky window
decorations more than the thick stuff Apple started with OS 8. And this thing
runs 7.6.1 and especially FreeHand 3 like mad. I even encountered a bug with
FH: If a document has hundreds of elements, they will be drawn but the watch
cursor never disappears. Then it's force-quit time. Doesn't happen on slower
machines with the same document.

> My goal is to have an absolute insane monster of an OS7 machine.

I can comprehend. :-) The only drawback I see is the memory test time.

--

:wq! PoC

In article <290920240831355501%vintageapplemac@gmail.com>,
scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, after my initial success with resurrecting some floppies using the
> isopropyl alcohol trick, I immediately ran into a major hurdle when my
> Performa 5320, the only Mac with a floppy I had working, suddenly
> ceased to work... Taking it apart to try and fix it was a disaster, the
> plastic internals simply crumbled to dust. By the time I got the
> motherboard out, there was no way it was ever going in true again, but
> it was hopeless anyway; the battery had vented and wrecked a bunch of
> chips. :-| So, it turned into a salvage job and I now have a few more
> spares for the parts bin.
>
> I've been meaning to rebuild a PM 9600 for some time now. I had four of
> the things, all in various states of distress; one that was
> particularly souped up and had been my main battlestation for a number
> of years but was very tatty, and the others that ranged from ugly on
> the outside but fine on the inside to full of rot inside but
> cosmetically fine. I had the makings, then, of at least one really nice
> example.
>
> So, a few months ago I stripped all four of them down to the frames,
> cleaned everything and salvaged any piece worth keeping. This all went
> into a couple of large PVC storage crates waiting for their time, and
> that time is now! I need a machine with floppy drive to continue to
> save my disks. :)
>
> I started yesterday and after a little trial and error (mostly fixed by
> removing all but a single pair of RAM sticks) have got a stock build
> booting with the 9.0.4 retail CD. I want to have this machine run 7.6.1
> only, I use this G4 MDD for OS9, but I cannot boot the 9600 with my 7.6
> retail CD, so figured I'd install OS9 in the first instance to a
> partition and then install 7.6.1 to another partition and go from
> there. However, I am using a SCSI2SD adapter and the Drive Setup app on
> the OS9 CD doesn't like it and will not initialize it.
>
> Today's job will be to get a copy of FWB onto a Zip disk and see if I
> can mount into that while booted into the OS9 CD. If so, I should be
> able to work with the SD card hard drive. If not, I will think again!
>
> Once I get past this issue and get the machine set up as stock with
> 7.6.1, I will then start to add upgrades; max out the RAM, add a Sonnet
> G3 or G4 board, and fit a high-end Radeon video card (forget the model
> numbers now but I've got several in my storage crates to choose from).
> My goal is to have an absolute insane monster of an OS7 machine.

Sad to hear about the Performa, but you've made the right choice not to let it
deter you from the classic Mac hobby! Creating a lovely 9600 from various
machines was a cool idea. The 9600 is, as you've stated, the ultimate System
7.6.1 machine and an overall awesome bridge machine. I've used it's little baby
brother (PowerMac 8600/200) for many years and loved how 7.6.1 just *flies* on
that thing. I also found it more compatible with older apps that would otherwise
start to break with OS 8+ (one of my favorite games, Panzer General, for
example). If you feel like it, you could try setting it up with HFS+ (there's
been some user hacks), initial results look promising. I think I read about this
on the System 7 Today forums.

In article <llvsjvFe403U1@mid.individual.net>, Patrik Schindler
<poc@pocnet.net> wrote:

> scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [a very nice summarization of ToDos]
>
> > Once I get past this issue and get the machine set up as stock with 7.6.1, I
> > will then start to add upgrades; max out the RAM, add a Sonnet G3 or G4
> > board, and fit a high-end Radeon video card (forget the model numbers now
> > but I've got several in my storage crates to choose from).
>
> I have a PowerMac 7500 with 512 Megs of RAM, and a "G3"-Card (400 MHz, with 1
> MB L2 cache, clocked at 200 MHz). Drawback: The RAM test needs almost a
> Minute to commence.

I had 1GB of RAM in a 9600 that was running 7.6.1 some years ago and I
don't remember the RAM test being a huge problem. I vaguely recall
there being a way to disable that test, so maybe I did that?

> I also added a High End Graphics card at one point. Allows me to run Unreal
> and Unreal Tournament. :-)
>
> I'm also a big fan of 7.6.1. I just like the lean and less bulky window
> decorations more than the thick stuff Apple started with OS 8. And this thing
> runs 7.6.1 and especially FreeHand 3 like mad.

Yeah, likewise. 7.6.1 is just so *simple*, it feels very
straightforward and very useable, compared to OS9 (which is still
mighty elegant itself!).

In article <info-20F0D8.11583201102024@news.individual.de>, Sebastian
from Cornica <info@cornica.org> wrote:

> In article <290920240831355501%vintageapplemac@gmail.com>,
> scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> >
> > Once I get past this issue and get the machine set up as stock with
> > 7.6.1, I will then start to add upgrades; max out the RAM, add a Sonnet
> > G3 or G4 board, and fit a high-end Radeon video card (forget the model
> > numbers now but I've got several in my storage crates to choose from).
> > My goal is to have an absolute insane monster of an OS7 machine.
>
> Sad to hear about the Performa, but you've made the right choice not to let
> it
> deter you from the classic Mac hobby! Creating a lovely 9600 from various
> machines was a cool idea. The 9600 is, as you've stated, the ultimate System
> 7.6.1 machine and an overall awesome bridge machine. I've used it's little
> baby
> brother (PowerMac 8600/200) for many years and loved how 7.6.1 just *flies*
> on
> that thing. I also found it more compatible with older apps that would
> otherwise
> start to break with OS 8+ (one of my favorite games, Panzer General, for
> example).

Yeah, this has been the itch I've been wanting to scratch for a while,
there's a bunch of software I have that I'd like to use that simply
won't play nice on this OS9 machine I'm using now. And even on the
now-deceased Performa that had System 7, it was hellish flaky - which
I'm now putting down to the internal sickness that that machine clearly
had. A new start with a carefully rebuilt 9600 *should* lead to some
good outcomes. Fingers crossed!

>If you feel like it, you could try setting it up with HFS+ (there's
> been some user hacks), initial results look promising. I think I read about this
> on the System 7 Today forums.

That is interesting, thanks for the heads up. I shall put it on my
research list!

In article <290920240831355501%vintageapplemac@gmail.com>, scole
<vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Today's job will be to get a copy of FWB onto a Zip disk and see if I
> can mount into that while booted into the OS9 CD. If so, I should be
> able to work with the SD card hard drive. If not, I will think again!

Well, this did work, it is possible to mount a Zip disk while booted
into the OS9 retail CD, but I also managed to kill the system on my MDD
G4 while getting the software onto the Zip...

I thought it'd be simple, drag and drop FWB to the zip but no dice, so
I ran the FWB installer with the Zip disk as the target, and then
figured I'd do the same with Norton Tools just so I had another option
when I sneakernetted the Zip round to the 9600. But Norton didn't like
that, so I ran the Norton installer with the MDD's RAM disk as the
target (logic was I didn't want it actually installed on this machine)
and then dragged/dropped it to the Zip and all seemed well.

The problems began when I shut down the MDD, which wiped the RAM disk;
when I next booted it a few hours later there was a system error as
extensions loaded. Hours of hunting for conflicts and disabling
extensions later, I was no closer to definitively identifying exactly
what the problem was, but there were scraps of the Norton install on my
system drive and my hunch was that this was the issue; where most of
the Norton install had been wiped off the RAM disk, these scraps were
causing problems. I lost my temper with it in the end and decided to
simply wipe the partition and reinstall OS9, but that's a whole
different story; OS9 installation on a G4 MDD 1.25Ghz FW400 machine is
a pain in the arse! I'll make a post on that later...

Anyway, where I'm at with the 9600 is that I have the SD card formatted
with FWB (it only allowed a single 2GB partition, on a 128GB card... I
need to get to the bottom of how I can make multiple partitions) and
have 9.0.4 installed and reliably booting. Next step will be to get a
7.6.1 installer onto that machine and install that to a second drive,
which I can then juggle to my intended main drive (the SD card) when
I've figured out partitioning it correctly.

Once that is all done, then the upgrades can begin and I can build my
monster!

On 2024-09-30 14:58:07 +0000, Patrik Schindler said:

> I'm also a big fan of 7.6.1. I just like the lean and less bulky window
> decorations more than the thick stuff Apple started with OS 8.

The Kaleidoscope control panel can bring that back in OS 8 and 9.

Back in that era I had a Power Mac 5400, only sold to the education
market but I bought one second hand on eBay. It served me well for
several years until I upgraded to an iMac Snow.

scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:

> I had 1GB of RAM in a 9600 that was running 7.6.1 some years ago and I
> don't remember the RAM test being a huge problem. I vaguely recall
> there being a way to disable that test, so maybe I did that?

I don't know any way to disable RAM-Test in 7.x.

--

:wq! PoC

super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:

>> I'm also a big fan of 7.6.1. I just like the lean and less bulky window
>> decorations more than the thick stuff Apple started with OS 8.
>
> The Kaleidoscope control panel can bring that back in OS 8 and 9.

Thanks for that hint! I had a dim memory that it should be possible, but I
couldn't remember.

--

:wq! PoC

In article <290920240831355501%vintageapplemac@gmail.com>, scole
<vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've been meaning to rebuild a PM 9600 for some time now. I had four of
> the things, all in various states of distress; one that was
> particularly souped up and had been my main battlestation for a number
> of years but was very tatty, and the others that ranged from ugly on
> the outside but fine on the inside to full of rot inside but
> cosmetically fine. I had the makings, then, of at least one really nice
> example.

Update: I got this finished last weekend. Or, at least, finished for now...

I wasn't happy with the SCSI2SD set-up I had, so recalled the
recommendation someone gave to use a BlueSCSI and went ahead and ordered
one. It did take me some time to get my head around the way that these
need to be used, the placing of a hard drive image on the SD card rather
than simply formatting the card itself. I also decided to find the
original instyall media for the 9600 and managed to get a sensible deal on
the install CD from a guy in America. When that arrived I installed the
BlueSCSI board and got 7.6.1 up and running.

Once that was done and seeming stable, I started adding in upgrades.

First of all, the CPU board. I went with a Sonnet Crescendo G4 500Mhz (I
think, or was it 400Mhz??). Booted up and all was working correctly.

Next, I installed a Radeon 9200 Mac Edition video card. No OS7 drivers, so
no accelerated graphics and fancy stuff, but the basics of the card works
without software, and the display on screen was noticeably sharper and
better oriented than I was getting from the stock video card.

Then I started adding more RAM. I had previously had a total of 1GB RAM in
a 9600 and was hoping to get all of that into this rebuilt machine. Alas,
no dice, once I had managed to get four pairs of RAM installed, booting
between each addition of a pair to make sure they were OK, the final
couple of pairs just wouldn't allow the machine to boot properly, kept
getting the breaking glass error sound alert. By that point, I didn't have
the energy to pull all the RAM and start again trying these pairs in
different slots, so figured that the half Gig or so of RAM I had
successfully working was good enough for now.

I had bought a little wheeled trolley/stand from Amazon and plonked the
9600 onto that, hooked the various wires to it, and wheeled it into place
under my desk. It does look very majestic, the styling of these big-box
beige Macs is a real visual treat imo.

Only thing is, I need to learn OS7 again! It's been at least 5 years or
more since I was last a regular user and there's enough difference between
7 and OS9 that I am feeling very clunky as I blunder around, not quite
knowing where everything is...

Anyway, I am a happy boy, I have an insanely over-powered OS7 machine to
play with now. :)

On 2024-11-30, scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <290920240831355501%vintageapplemac@gmail.com>, scole
><vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've been meaning to rebuild a PM 9600 for some time now. I had four
>> of the things, all in various states of distress; one that was
>> particularly souped up and had been my main battlestation for a
>> number of years but was very tatty, and the others that ranged from
>> ugly on the outside but fine on the inside to full of rot inside but
>> cosmetically fine. I had the makings, then, of at least one really
>> nice example.
>
> Update: I got this finished last weekend. Or, at least, finished for
> now...
>
> I wasn't happy with the SCSI2SD set-up I had, so recalled the
> recommendation someone gave to use a BlueSCSI and went ahead and
> ordered one. It did take me some time to get my head around the way
> that these need to be used, the placing of a hard drive image on the
> SD card rather than simply formatting the card itself. I also decided
> to find the original instyall media for the 9600 and managed to get a
> sensible deal on the install CD from a guy in America. When that
> arrived I installed the BlueSCSI board and got 7.6.1 up and running.

I've been using a BlueSCSI in my trusty Mac SE/30 for a while now and
it's been great. It's fast, stable, and now the only noise I hear when
it's running is the exhaust fan. 🙂

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

In article <lr1g29Fsi8uU1@mid.individual.net>,
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2024-11-30, scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <290920240831355501%vintageapplemac@gmail.com>, scole
> ><vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've been meaning to rebuild a PM 9600 for some time now. I had four
> >> of the things, all in various states of distress; one that was
> >> particularly souped up and had been my main battlestation for a
> >> number of years but was very tatty, and the others that ranged from
> >> ugly on the outside but fine on the inside to full of rot inside but
> >> cosmetically fine. I had the makings, then, of at least one really
> >> nice example.
> >
> > Update: I got this finished last weekend. Or, at least, finished for
> > now...
> >
> > I wasn't happy with the SCSI2SD set-up I had, so recalled the
> > recommendation someone gave to use a BlueSCSI and went ahead and
> > ordered one. It did take me some time to get my head around the way
> > that these need to be used, the placing of a hard drive image on the
> > SD card rather than simply formatting the card itself. I also decided
> > to find the original instyall media for the 9600 and managed to get a
> > sensible deal on the install CD from a guy in America. When that
> > arrived I installed the BlueSCSI board and got 7.6.1 up and running.
>
> I've been using a BlueSCSI in my trusty Mac SE/30 for a while now and
> it's been great. It's fast, stable, and now the only noise I hear when
> it's running is the exhaust fan. ?

I use a BlueSCSI on my LC475 as well (took out the old HD but use the
external SCSI connector). On my iMac G3, however, I'll need a different
solution as it uses IDE (I guess).

I have not met anyone yet who tried to replace the iMac G3 drive for
some other solution (a CF card?) inside an iMac G3 ;-)

Regards,
Rene

In article <lr1g29Fsi8uU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2024-11-30, scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <290920240831355501%vintageapplemac@gmail.com>, scole
> ><vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've been meaning to rebuild a PM 9600 for some time now. I had four
> >> of the things, all in various states of distress; one that was
> >> particularly souped up and had been my main battlestation for a
> >> number of years but was very tatty, and the others that ranged from
> >> ugly on the outside but fine on the inside to full of rot inside but
> >> cosmetically fine. I had the makings, then, of at least one really
> >> nice example.
> >
> > Update: I got this finished last weekend. Or, at least, finished for
> > now...
> >
> > I wasn't happy with the SCSI2SD set-up I had, so recalled the
> > recommendation someone gave to use a BlueSCSI and went ahead and
> > ordered one. It did take me some time to get my head around the way
> > that these need to be used, the placing of a hard drive image on the
> > SD card rather than simply formatting the card itself. I also decided
> > to find the original instyall media for the 9600 and managed to get a
> > sensible deal on the install CD from a guy in America. When that
> > arrived I installed the BlueSCSI board and got 7.6.1 up and running.
>
> I've been using a BlueSCSI in my trusty Mac SE/30 for a while now and
> it's been great. It's fast, stable, and now the only noise I hear when
> it's running is the exhaust fan. 🙂

That reminds me, I forgot to change the internal fans when I was putting
the 9600 back together! I have some SilenX fans, and intend to replace at
least the fan on the inside of the side panel, and probably inside the PSU
too. I replaced all the fans in this G4 MDD and, as it only has SSDs in
it, the thing is almost totally silent, it's definitely a good upgrade to
make!

On 2024-12-07, scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <lr1g29Fsi8uU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-11-30, scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > In article <290920240831355501%vintageapplemac@gmail.com>, scole
>> ><vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I've been meaning to rebuild a PM 9600 for some time now. I had
>> >> four of the things, all in various states of distress; one that
>> >> was particularly souped up and had been my main battlestation for
>> >> a number of years but was very tatty, and the others that ranged
>> >> from ugly on the outside but fine on the inside to full of rot
>> >> inside but cosmetically fine. I had the makings, then, of at least
>> >> one really nice example.
>> >
>> > Update: I got this finished last weekend. Or, at least, finished
>> > for now...
>> >
>> > I wasn't happy with the SCSI2SD set-up I had, so recalled the
>> > recommendation someone gave to use a BlueSCSI and went ahead and
>> > ordered one. It did take me some time to get my head around the way
>> > that these need to be used, the placing of a hard drive image on
>> > the SD card rather than simply formatting the card itself. I also
>> > decided to find the original instyall media for the 9600 and
>> > managed to get a sensible deal on the install CD from a guy in
>> > America. When that arrived I installed the BlueSCSI board and got
>> > 7.6.1 up and running.
>>
>> I've been using a BlueSCSI in my trusty Mac SE/30 for a while now and
>> it's been great. It's fast, stable, and now the only noise I hear
>> when it's running is the exhaust fan. 🙂
>
> That reminds me, I forgot to change the internal fans when I was
> putting the 9600 back together! I have some SilenX fans, and intend to
> replace at least the fan on the inside of the side panel, and probably
> inside the PSU too. I replaced all the fans in this G4 MDD and, as it
> only has SSDs in it, the thing is almost totally silent, it's
> definitely a good upgrade to make!

Nice! I'll have to take a look to see if SilenX makes one that'll work
in the Mac SE/30.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2024-12-07 04:28:42 +0000, scole said:

> I replaced all the fans in this G4 MDD and, as it only has SSDs in
> it, the thing is almost totally silent, it's definitely a good upgrade to
> make!

I've bought a total of four MDDs in the past, all used, two of which
are still in use. Two of them had very quiet fans (despite the
derogatory "Wind Tunnel" nick) and two others had fans that ran louder.
Now I have one quiet one which I use most of the time, and the other
one is louder. I'm wondering if the fan noise problem got back to Apple
and they started putting quieter fans in later models.

Never really noticed any hard drive noise in any of them.

In article <vjgg2q$383on$1@dont-email.me>, super70s
<super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:

> On 2024-12-07 04:28:42 +0000, scole said:
>
> > I replaced all the fans in this G4 MDD and, as it only has SSDs in
> > it, the thing is almost totally silent, it's definitely a good upgrade to
> > make!
>
> I've bought a total of four MDDs in the past, all used, two of which
> are still in use. Two of them had very quiet fans (despite the
> derogatory "Wind Tunnel" nick) and two others had fans that ran louder.
> Now I have one quiet one which I use most of the time, and the other
> one is louder. I'm wondering if the fan noise problem got back to Apple
> and they started putting quieter fans in later models.

Quite possible, would make sense that Apple might have wanted to resolve
such a poor reputation for a flagship product. I've had a few MDDs over
the years, most only used briefly other than the machine I'm using now,
and all of them were pretty noisy; the PSU fans seemed to be the worst
part of it, replacing those in this machine made the biggest difference.
There's just a quiet hum as it runs now. :)

For quite a few years, my main workstation was a Dual 1.8Ghz G5 Power Mac
and, boy!, that thing was loud as hell when you put it under work! Pumped
out heat, too, could warm the room with it!
> Never really noticed any hard drive noise in any of them.

After I repalced the fans in this MDD, the spinning drive sound was very
noticeable, to the point where I quickly decided that going SSD-only was
the way forward.

In article <renekint-4FB071.17150102122024@news.eternal-september.org>,
Rene Kint <renekint@stnest.net> wrote:

> In article <lr1g29Fsi8uU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've been using a BlueSCSI in my trusty Mac SE/30 for a while now and
> > it's been great. It's fast, stable, and now the only noise I hear when
> > it's running is the exhaust fan. ?
>
> I use a BlueSCSI on my LC475 as well (took out the old HD but use the
> external SCSI connector). On my iMac G3, however, I'll need a different
> solution as it uses IDE (I guess).
>
> I have not met anyone yet who tried to replace the iMac G3 drive for
> some other solution (a CF card?) inside an iMac G3 ;-)

I think there are IDE > SATA adapters available, so you could quite
reasonably put an SSD in a G3 iMac. And there's certainly IDE > CF
adapters, so I don't see any reason why you couldn't use a CF card!