The best RPG is the ARPG.

It is the only thing in the genre that I like.

Anyway, we did not get a Paladin class in Diablo IV.

The classes are the weak point of the game.

The upcoming expansion, Vessel of Hatred, had to give us a religious themed
class.

Instead of the Crusader or the Monk, as in Diablo III, we will get the
Spiritborn...

They have now released some gameplay.

I am not impressed.

There should be a knight with auras and hammers and things!

However, since this is "the first expansion", there could still be hope.

I quit D4 after finishing its single player campaign as a barbarian a few weeks ago.

Samuel Söderberg <samuel@samuelsoderberg.se> wrote:
> The best RPG is the ARPG.

> It is the only thing in the genre that I like.

> Anyway, we did not get a Paladin class in Diablo IV.

> The classes are the weak point of the game.

> The upcoming expansion, Vessel of Hatred, had to give us a religious themed
> class.

> Instead of the Crusader or the Monk, as in Diablo III, we will get the
> Spiritborn...

> They have now released some gameplay.

> I am not impressed.

> There should be a knight with auras and hammers and things!

> However, since this is "the first expansion", there could still be hope.

--
"[Moses addressed Israel, reminding them of God's deliverance of them from Egypt, and his commands given to them:] 'You saw with your own eyes the great trials, the miraculous signs and wonders, the mighty hand and outstretched arm, with which the Lord your God brought you out [from bondage and delivered you.]. The Lord your God will do the same to all the peoples you now fear.'" --Deuteronomy 7:19. CrowdStrike should had hired me instead of rejecting me. :P
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On Fri, 19 Jul 2024 19:45:24 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>I quit D4 after finishing its single player campaign as a barbarian a few weeks ago.

I quit Diablo on the PC after the second game. Blizzard's antics with
D3 were enough to turn me off from a franchise I was never that crazy
about to begin with. Nothing I've seen about D4 made me regret that
decision.

If I want to play an action-RPG, there are plenty of alternatives that
are as good or better. "Path of Exile" gets a lot of praise, but I was
quite satisfied with "Titan Quest".

But I'd much rather play something like "The Witcher 3". ;-)

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2024 19:45:24 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

> >I quit D4 after finishing its single player campaign as a barbarian a few weeks ago.

> I quit Diablo on the PC after the second game. Blizzard's antics with
> D3 were enough to turn me off from a franchise I was never that crazy
> about to begin with. Nothing I've seen about D4 made me regret that
> decision.

Yeah, D3 wasn't good.

> If I want to play an action-RPG, there are plenty of alternatives that
> are as good or better. "Path of Exile" gets a lot of praise, but I was
> quite satisfied with "Titan Quest".

> But I'd much rather play something like "The Witcher 3". ;-)

Heck, I enjoyed Torchlight games. I couldn't get into The Witcher series.
--
"[Moses addressed Israel, reminding them of God's deliverance of them from Egypt, and his commands given to them:] 'You saw with your own eyes the great trials, the miraculous signs and wonders, the mighty hand and outstretched arm, with which the Lord your God brought you out [from bondage and delivered you.]. The Lord your God will do the same to all the peoples you now fear.'" --Deuteronomy 7:19. CrowdStrike should had hired me instead of rejecting me. :P
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On Fri, 19 Jul 2024 23:47:00 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>Yeah, D3 wasn't good.

I thought Diablo 3 was excellent but I didn't play it until the
expansion pack came out.

>Heck, I enjoyed Torchlight games. I couldn't get into The Witcher series.

The Witcher is a very different type of RPG. The original Torchlight
is a bit simplistic but still fun for awhile. The sequel is a lot of
fun.

On Fri, 19 Jul 2024 18:08:00 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>If I want to play an action-RPG, there are plenty of alternatives that
>are as good or better. "Path of Exile" gets a lot of praise, but I was
>quite satisfied with "Titan Quest".

As far as praise goes, I think Path of Exile and Grim Dawn get the
most if you ignore Diablo 2.

>But I'd much rather play something like "The Witcher 3". ;-)

Like Ant, I am not sure if I would like the Witcher series. I never
played any of them.

Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2024 23:47:00 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

> >Yeah, D3 wasn't good.

> I thought Diablo 3 was excellent but I didn't play it until the
> expansion pack came out.

Interesting. Did it expansion make D3 better?

> >Heck, I enjoyed Torchlight games. I couldn't get into The Witcher series.

> The Witcher is a very different type of RPG. The original Torchlight
> is a bit simplistic but still fun for awhile. The sequel is a lot of
> fun.

I can't wait for the new one.
--
"There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins." --Ecclesiastes 7:20. Hot weekend. :(
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Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2024 18:08:00 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
> <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

> >If I want to play an action-RPG, there are plenty of alternatives that
> >are as good or better. "Path of Exile" gets a lot of praise, but I was
> >quite satisfied with "Titan Quest".

> As far as praise goes, I think Path of Exile and Grim Dawn get the
> most if you ignore Diablo 2.

> >But I'd much rather play something like "The Witcher 3". ;-)

> Like Ant, I am not sure if I would like the Witcher series. I never
> played any of them.

I only played its playable demo. I remember its cutscene show the guy naked in the bath tub. Ha!
--
"There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins." --Ecclesiastes 7:20. Hot weekend. :(
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on Sat, 20 July 2024 17:41:15 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>Interesting. Did it expansion make D3 better?

Yes, but this is just because the game itself had been out for awhile
by this point and Blizzard was fixing it.

I actually had no intentions of getting the game due to the bad press
it received at launch but the game was on sale when a friend asked me
to buy it so we could play together. I never saw the login issues, the
broken loot table or the real money AH because that stuff was fixed
and gone by the time I purchased it.

On Sat, 20 Jul 2024 17:41:53 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>I only played its playable demo. I remember its cutscene show the guy naked in the bath tub. Ha!

I remember him naked in the bath tub as well. I guess I saw the same
cutscene.

Den 2024-07-20 kl. 16:27, skrev Mike S.:

> I thought Diablo 3 was excellent but I didn't play it until the
> expansion pack came out.
I was disappointed when it released for PC, but then I bought it on the
Xbox and played with a controller... It was great!

When Diablo IV released on Steam I did not hesitate to buy a controller.
The recommended way of playing the game.

Unfortunately the rolling mechanic from III is gone, instead we got the
dash with a cooldown, which is worse.

On Sun, 21 Jul 2024 15:35:57 +0200, Samuel Söderberg
<samuel@samuelsoderberg.se> wrote:

>Den 2024-07-20 kl. 16:27, skrev Mike S.:
>
>> I thought Diablo 3 was excellent but I didn't play it until the
>> expansion pack came out.
>I was disappointed when it released for PC, but then I bought it on the
>Xbox and played with a controller... It was great!
>
>When Diablo IV released on Steam I did not hesitate to buy a controller.
>The recommended way of playing the game.
>
>Unfortunately the rolling mechanic from III is gone, instead we got the
>dash with a cooldown, which is worse.

Although I boycotted D3 on the PC, eventually I broke down and got it
on... I think it was the Playstation 3? (I'd have to dig out the disks
and check). I'm pretty sure I bought it used to keep Blizzard from
getting any cash out of the deal.

It... was fine. It was Diablo; the same shallow gameplay as in one and
two and go-nowhere plot. It was a little bit prettier than D2 but
lacked the character of that older game. It felt completely average in
every respect. Arguably I may have worsened the experience by playing
it on a console (honestly, any game that demands I use a gamepad feels
worse to me) but I don't think I'd have had more fun on a PC.

Then again, a lot of Blizzard's concern with D3 and D4 was focused on
aspects I just don't give a damn about: the multiplayer and grinding
levels and loot. And I get that's popular with a lot of people, so if
that's where Blizzard wanted to put most of the effort, fine. But it
did nothing to encourage me to keep with the franchise. I'd only
picked up D3 on console just to see what it was like; a whim of
curiousity more than any real desire to play. But I've not even that
much interest in D4.

But that's okay; I've a different taste in games. And if I really want
to play an ARPG, there are some that actually manage to squeeze in
some aspects of gameplay I find engaging. But the Diablo franchise is
up there with "Call of Duty" games for me; over-hyped, unexceptional
and wildly popular for reasons I'll never quite understand.

On 21 Jul 2024 at 19:12:48 CEST, "Spalls Hurgenson"
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Then again, a lot of Blizzard's concern with D3 and D4 was focused on
> aspects I just don't give a damn about: the multiplayer and grinding
> levels and loot.

The multiplayer elements in Diablo IV were interesting for an ARPG. It borrows
from the MMO genre, with world bosses and so on. You kill a monster with some
random people, and then you let go of them.

Now there are too many ways of manipulating items in the game, and in the
latest season they added yet another.

I got 70 hours out of the game, and if it goes on sale, I would advise you to
pick it up!

Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
> on Sat, 20 July 2024 17:41:15 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

> >Interesting. Did it expansion make D3 better?

> Yes, but this is just because the game itself had been out for awhile
> by this point and Blizzard was fixing it.

> I actually had no intentions of getting the game due to the bad press
> it received at launch but the game was on sale when a friend asked me
> to buy it so we could play together. I never saw the login issues, the
> broken loot table or the real money AH because that stuff was fixed
> and gone by the time I purchased it.

Hmm, maybe I will retry it as a Diablo fan.
--
"[Speaking to the Israelites about their enemies, Moses said:] 'Do not be terrified by them, for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a great and awesome God.'" --Deuteronomy 7:21. ST: Prodigy rocked! Finally, Pres. JB!
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Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jul 2024 17:41:53 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

> >I only played its playable demo. I remember its cutscene show the guy naked in the bath tub. Ha!

> I remember him naked in the bath tub as well. I guess I saw the same
> cutscene.

Which Witcher game was it? Original?
--
"[Speaking to the Israelites about their enemies, Moses said:] 'Do not be terrified by them, for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a great and awesome God.'" --Deuteronomy 7:21. ST: Prodigy rocked! Finally, Pres. JB!
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On Mon, 22 Jul 2024 00:23:44 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>Which Witcher game was it? Original?

I am pretty sure that scene was in Witcher 3.

On Mon, 22 Jul 2024 16:52:45 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Jul 2024 00:23:44 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>
>>Which Witcher game was it? Original?
>
>I am pretty sure that scene was in Witcher 3.

As far as I can recall, Geralt has been naked* in a bath in all three
games. Apparently the guy likes a good scrub. ;-)

But the third game starts with a prequel chapter that opens up with
him lounging in a tub. It's almost literally the first thing you see
in the game (and apparently the demo too) and thus it's the most
memorable.

(Geralt tubs it much later in games 1 and 2; it might even be
skippable in both games)

* presumably naked, anyway. The game didn't linger. He might have been
wearing shorts beneath the soapy water. ;-)

On 7/20/2024 4:37 PM, Mike S. wrote:
> on Sat, 20 July 2024 17:41:15 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>
>> Interesting. Did it expansion make D3 better?
>
> Yes, but this is just because the game itself had been out for awhile
> by this point and Blizzard was fixing it.
>
> I actually had no intentions of getting the game due to the bad press
> it received at launch but the game was on sale when a friend asked me
> to buy it so we could play together. I never saw the login issues, the
> broken loot table or the real money AH because that stuff was fixed
> and gone by the time I purchased it.

I missed the non-real money auction house once it was removed. Much
easier than trying to find someone to trade with.

I don't remember login issues, but I'm sure I didn't buy it day one. It
was probably shortly after as a bunch of my friends were playing it and
wanted to play with them.

Looking back on my old posts I see there were a couple hacks against it
early, one where people's accounts had been hacked and logged into and
cleared out of all their items which were then being sold on the real
money auction house. I wasn't affected by that one.

The expansion was fun as I remember, but I was never into post game
replaying over and over to get better gear, same as D1 & D2.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On 7/21/2024 10:12 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> Arguably I may have worsened the experience by playing
> it on a console (honestly, any game that demands I use a gamepad feels
> worse to me) but I don't think I'd have had more fun on a PC.

Ugh. I can't imagine. The game seems really set up for point and click.

On the other hand I enjoyed Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance and Bard's Tale
on the PS2 which are also ARPGs, so maybe I'm wrong.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On 7/23/2024 10:49 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2024 16:52:45 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Jul 2024 00:23:44 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>>
>>> Which Witcher game was it? Original?
>>
>> I am pretty sure that scene was in Witcher 3.
>
> As far as I can recall, Geralt has been naked* in a bath in all three
> games. Apparently the guy likes a good scrub. ;-)
>
> But the third game starts with a prequel chapter that opens up with
> him lounging in a tub. It's almost literally the first thing you see
> in the game (and apparently the demo too) and thus it's the most
> memorable.
>
> (Geralt tubs it much later in games 1 and 2; it might even be
> skippable in both games)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * presumably naked, anyway. The game didn't linger. He might have been
> wearing shorts beneath the soapy water. ;-)
>

Eww, that'd be even weirder.

I found the first area in W3 a slog, it's kind of a really long
tutorial. If you do get it, and you find it a slog, I'd suggest trying
the option to start in one of the DLCs so you don't have to go to the
first area, you get to start with some gear and levels if you do that too.

The combat's o.k. Way better than 1 or 2. The best part are the
characters and interactions. It's very adult in bits so be wary if that
turns you off or you've got kids around.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> wrote in news:v7ui1g$2esbt$7@dont-email.me:

> The combat's o.k. Way better than 1 or 2.

I loved the combat in game one. It took me a little work to master it, but when I had, crank up
the difficulty and never lose a fight. It was great once you figured it out.

I hated that they changed it.

Folks--strokes.

On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 14:57:33 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 7/21/2024 10:12 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> Arguably I may have worsened the experience by playing
>> it on a console (honestly, any game that demands I use a gamepad feels
>> worse to me) but I don't think I'd have had more fun on a PC.
>
>Ugh. I can't imagine. The game seems really set up for point and click.
>
>On the other hand I enjoyed Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance and Bard's Tale
>on the PS2 which are also ARPGs, so maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah, I got a lot of "Dark Alliance" vibes while playing D3 on
console. I don't know how well the gameplay on console compares to the
PC version, but it was... adequate. My problems with the game had more
to do with the game's design (shallow gameworlds, linear quests, too
much combat, unrewarding loot) than the fact I had to use a gamepad.
The same problems, I'm pretty sure, I'd have had if I'd played "Diablo
3" on PC.

But I can't necessarily disagree that the gamepad might have made the
game worse.

I actually rather enjoyed the "Dark Alliance" games, although I think
that was more because I was so surprised that the games were at all
playable with a gamepad. I expected a totally horrific experience, and
that... the "Dark Alliance" games weren't. They were simplistic, sure,
but fun, in a mindless popcorn-movie way.

[Yay for low expectations!]

That said, I enjoyed "Diablo 3" a lot less than those older games.
But, again, that's more because I just don't care for "Diablo's"
design. Those games, it seems to me, are more focussed on their
multplayer experience than the single-player, and this effects
everything in the game: the equipment, the skills, the monster
placement, the pacing. Everything is designed to be balanced in
multiplayer. "Dark Alliance" is primarily a single-player experience,
and this is reflected in how your character steadily becomes more and
more powerful. It's just more rewarding gameplay as far as I'm
concerned.

But YMMV. A lot of people like the Diablo gameplay style. I'm not one
of them, but I don't think it was the use of the gamepad that made the
game less enjoyable for me.

On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 04:21:34 -0000 (UTC), "Mark P. Nelson"
<markpnelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> wrote in news:v7ui1g$2esbt$7@dont-email.me:
>
>> The combat's o.k. Way better than 1 or 2.
>
>I loved the combat in game one. It took me a little work to master it, but when I had, crank up
>the difficulty and never lose a fight. It was great once you figured it out.
>
>I hated that they changed it.
>
>Folks--strokes.

When I first played "The Witcher" in 2007, I detested the combat, but
when I replayed it a year or so back

[checks notes: good Gog, that was way back in 2016! Where has
the time gone? It feels like just last year!]

I enjoyed it a lot more.
Possibly more than the combat in the third game. But then, I've never
really enjoyed the combat in /any/ RPG, because that's always been the
least important bit of the game for me.

[It's one of the things I liked about the venerable "Ultima 7";
you press a key and the combat just kind of sorts itself out
for you. Sure, you /could/ micro-manage the fight if you wanted
to, but it was almost never necessary. It let me focus on
the exploration, the puzzling, the character interactions,
the story. CRPG combat is almost always boring, if only
because there's just so dang much of it!]

Then again, I never really bother to master the mechanics. I just rush
in, sword whipping about as I frantically mashed the keys. I'm sure
that there was a lot of depth in "The Witcher 3's" combat system. I
just had no desire to engage with it.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 14:57:33 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 7/21/2024 10:12 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>> Arguably I may have worsened the experience by playing
>>> it on a console (honestly, any game that demands I use a gamepad feels
>>> worse to me) but I don't think I'd have had more fun on a PC.
>>
>>Ugh. I can't imagine. The game seems really set up for point and click.
>>
>>On the other hand I enjoyed Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance and Bard's Tale
>>on the PS2 which are also ARPGs, so maybe I'm wrong.
>
>Yeah, I got a lot of "Dark Alliance" vibes while playing D3 on
>console. I don't know how well the gameplay on console compares to the
>PC version, but it was... adequate. My problems with the game had more
>to do with the game's design (shallow gameworlds, linear quests, too
>much combat, unrewarding loot) than the fact I had to use a gamepad.
>The same problems, I'm pretty sure, I'd have had if I'd played "Diablo
>3" on PC.
>
>But I can't necessarily disagree that the gamepad might have made the
>game worse.
>
>I actually rather enjoyed the "Dark Alliance" games, although I think
>that was more because I was so surprised that the games were at all
>playable with a gamepad. I expected a totally horrific experience, and
>that... the "Dark Alliance" games weren't. They were simplistic, sure,
>but fun, in a mindless popcorn-movie way.
>
> [Yay for low expectations!]
>
>That said, I enjoyed "Diablo 3" a lot less than those older games.
>But, again, that's more because I just don't care for "Diablo's"
>design. Those games, it seems to me, are more focussed on their
>multplayer experience than the single-player, and this effects
>everything in the game: the equipment, the skills, the monster
>placement, the pacing. Everything is designed to be balanced in
>multiplayer. "Dark Alliance" is primarily a single-player experience,
>and this is reflected in how your character steadily becomes more and
>more powerful. It's just more rewarding gameplay as far as I'm
>concerned.

I never got that from Diablo 1 and 2.
I mostly played single player, once in a blue moon doing modem network
games with a friend.
We'd both start up a network game usually soloing, but if one ran into a
problem that couldn't be dealt with solo, phone for help and the other
would join the game to help.

Not once did I set foot on battle.net until forced to with diablo3.

Which I also played single player, only with a wait to log in, lag and
random disconnects.

This is also why I did NOT buy the upgraded hi-res Diablo2, because you
have to be online on battle.net and I have literally zero interest in
that, single player only and forcing me to be online for single player
with all the issues blizzards online play comes with ... FUCK THAT!

Sell me the upgraded graphics with what the original game came with, the
freedom to not be online when I want to solo play. Freedom from lag,
freedom from disconnects, freedom from waiting in line just to play.

So they fucked up the play, upgraded the graphics and want $55 for it, I
say again FUCK THAT!

$30 max for the upgraded graphics, with original play.

As it is, they'd have to pay me to take it with that battle.net
albatross hanging from it.

Xocyll

Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> writes:

> I found the first area in W3 a slog, it's kind of a really long
> tutorial. If you do get it, and you find it a slog, I'd suggest
> trying the option to start in one of the DLCs so you don't have to go
> to the first area, you get to start with some gear and levels if you
> do that too.

Good to know. Yeah, I at least got bogged down in the first area of
W3. Just didn't see the point although I liked the TV show well
enough. Looks like I have the "Complete Edition" on GoG and I think it's
even installed. So maybe there's another look into W3 in August.