On Mon, 03 Feb 2025 10:47:53 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well, Arena was more of a personality test that corresponded to
>various attributes (e.g., sort of a 'You see a guy being bullied, what
>do you do? a) Punch the bully (+STR attribute), b) trick the bully
>(+INT), c) Join the bully (+CON)' thing). Which ultimately is what
>Ultima did too, except there weren't any direct correlations to
>virtue/value judgments about your actions in "Elder Scrolls: Arena").

Ok fair enough, but going through that when I played Arena did make me
think instantly of Ultima character creation. But when I realized that
was not the best way to make your character, I stopped using it.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>Continuing my recent trend of "let's steal topics from websites as a
>stepping off point for new discussions", I present this one:
>
>"8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
>https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/
>
>To save you the effort of clicking and reading, here are the games
>they list:
>
> - Day of the Tentacle
played it, liked it
> - Doom
played it, liked it
> - Grand Theft Auto III
played it, did not care for it cause I played it after vice city and
basic 3 sucked
> - Half-Life
played it, liked it
> - Half-Life 2
played it, disappointed compared to 1
> - Legend of Zelda
never played
> - Sim City 2000
never played, only original
> - Simpsons: Hit & Run
never played

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

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Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Continuing my recent trend of "let's steal topics from websites as a
> stepping off point for new discussions", I present this one:
>
> "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
> https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/
>
> To save you the effort of clicking and reading, here are the games
> they list:
>
> - Day of the Tentacle
Never played it.
> - Doom
Played it a lot.
> - Grand Theft Auto III
Played it.
> - Half-Life
Played it.
> - Half-Life 2
Never played it.
> - Legend of Zelda
Played it, but not till the end.
> - Sim City 2000
Played it, for a little time.
> - Simpsons: Hit & Run
Never played it.

I would like to add "The Need for Speed" to the list.
Still enjoying this game.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 12:42:06 -0000 (UTC), address@is.invalid (LucLan)
wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Continuing my recent trend of "let's steal topics from websites as a
>> stepping off point for new discussions", I present this one:
>>
>> "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
>> https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/

>I would like to add "The Need for Speed" to the list.
>Still enjoying this game.

Yeah, a lot of those tracks are really good. The first "City" track
with its go-fast! straight-aways; the gorgeous colors of "Autumn
Valley"; the twisty roads of "Alpine" and the vistas of "Coastal". It
was an absolutely jaw-dropping game on its release, visually, and
quite fun too. Personally, it hasn't held up quite as well in terms of
gameplay --at least, not for me-- but I have a great deal of nostalgia
for that classic.

But I was always much more fond of "Need for Speed 3: Hot Pursuit". I
played the hell out of that game, and to this day I still remember the
twists and turns of each track pretty well. And a number of the tracks
from that game have migrated to my MP3 collection so I can listen to
them when I go out-and-about in the real-world. ;-)

If I had to rank the NFS games by enjoyment (not necessarily quality),
it would probably go like this:

Need For Speed 3: Hot Pursuit (1998)
Need For Speed: Most Wanted (2005)
Need For Speed 1 (1994)
Need For Speed 5: Porsche Unleashed (2000)
Need For Speed: Underground 1 (2003)
Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit (2013)
Need For Speed: Underground 2 (2004)
Need For Speed 4: High Stakes (1999)
Need For Speed: Most Wanted (2012)
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (2016)

With the rest of the series settling into an unsorted mash at the
bottom. Generally, I've found the quality and fun of the series to be
diminishing as the years go on, to the point I haven't even bothered
with the latest release, 2022's "Need For Speed: Unbound", and
considering I've managed to play _all_ the rest of the series (with
the sole exception being 2015's "No Limits" for Android), that's
saying something. ;-)

On 2/11/2025 7:51 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 12:42:06 -0000 (UTC), address@is.invalid (LucLan)
> wrote:
>
>> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Continuing my recent trend of "let's steal topics from websites as a
>>> stepping off point for new discussions", I present this one:
>>>
>>> "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
>>> https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/
>
>
>> I would like to add "The Need for Speed" to the list.
>> Still enjoying this game.
>
> Yeah, a lot of those tracks are really good. The first "City" track
> with its go-fast! straight-aways; the gorgeous colors of "Autumn
> Valley"; the twisty roads of "Alpine" and the vistas of "Coastal". It
> was an absolutely jaw-dropping game on its release, visually, and
> quite fun too. Personally, it hasn't held up quite as well in terms of
> gameplay --at least, not for me-- but I have a great deal of nostalgia
> for that classic.
>
> But I was always much more fond of "Need for Speed 3: Hot Pursuit". I
> played the hell out of that game, and to this day I still remember the
> twists and turns of each track pretty well. And a number of the tracks
> from that game have migrated to my MP3 collection so I can listen to
> them when I go out-and-about in the real-world. ;-)
>
> If I had to rank the NFS games by enjoyment (not necessarily quality),
> it would probably go like this:
>
> Need For Speed 3: Hot Pursuit (1998)
> Need For Speed: Most Wanted (2005)
> Need For Speed 1 (1994)
> Need For Speed 5: Porsche Unleashed (2000)
> Need For Speed: Underground 1 (2003)
> Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit (2013)
> Need For Speed: Underground 2 (2004)
> Need For Speed 4: High Stakes (1999)
> Need For Speed: Most Wanted (2012)
> Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (2016)
>

I played a couple NFS games within the last decade, maybe I came too
late to it, but I just felt they were barely passable. Of course one
was a mobile game. Here's what I wrote about it, I assume this is the
one on the bottom of your list (of course it is) and apperantly your
best isn't available for purchase (of course it isn't.)

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 08:51:07 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On 2/11/2025 7:51 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 12:42:06 -0000 (UTC), address@is.invalid (LucLan)
>> wrote:
>>> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
>>>> https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/

>>> I would like to add "The Need for Speed" to the list.
>>> Still enjoying this game.

>> If I had to rank the NFS games by enjoyment (not necessarily quality),
>> it would probably go like this:
>> Need For Speed 3: Hot Pursuit (1998)
>> Need For Speed: Most Wanted (2005)
>> Need For Speed 1 (1994)
>> Need For Speed 5: Porsche Unleashed (2000)
>> Need For Speed: Underground 1 (2003)
>> Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit (2013)
>> Need For Speed: Underground 2 (2004)
>> Need For Speed 4: High Stakes (1999)
>> Need For Speed: Most Wanted (2012)
>> Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (2016)

>I played a couple NFS games within the last decade, maybe I came too
>late to it, but I just felt they were barely passable. Of course one
>was a mobile game. Here's what I wrote about it, I assume this is the
>one on the bottom of your list (of course it is) and apperantly your
>best isn't available for purchase (of course it isn't.)

As much as I loved "Need For Speed 3", I wouldn't argue too strongly
that it was the BEST of the series. For its time, it was a very good
arcade-racer* and I played it a lot... but I don't think its aged very
well. It remains at the top of my list because of my nostalgic
memories of playing it --both offline and with other players over a
very slow dial-up connection-- but not because I think it's the best
game.

If I had to rank the games by quality I'd probably put the 2005 "Most
Wanted" game at top**. It too has aged, but I think it found a very
good balance of quality visuals, racing mechanics, story***, map
design and advancement mechanics (how frequently you get new cars and
upgrades). It wasn't perfect, but it found a better balance between
all these factors than most of the other games in the franchise, and
still remains quite playable today.

By that ranking, "Need for Speed 3" would probably sit five or seven
steps down the list (and the original "Need For Speed" would be higher
on the list too, just because at the time it really was head-and-
shoulders above anything else)

But really, the "Need For Speed" series was always a mediocre
collection of games. Not in any way terrible, but not top-of-the-line
either. I had a lot of fun with the games, make no mistake, but they
were like McDonalds food. Tasty, often satisfying, but you knew there
were better options out there.

Unfortunately, the vast bulk of the older "Need For Speed" games have
become abandonware. In part, this is probably because the licenses
--for the music and for the cars themselves-- have all expired, and EA
doesn't feel it worth the time and effort to renegotiate them in order
to satisfy a few nerds who remember playing these games 20 years ago.
But it's probably also to keep those older games from competing
against the newer ones, which are generally recognized as being
inferior in everything but their visuals. But good luck finding any
way of (legally) acquiring of their games from before 2020 or so.

=============
* of the style I often refer to as a 'pinball racer', because bouncing
off the invisible walls --or other cars-- is a perfectly valid way of
getting to first place ;-)

** note I'm referring to the 2005 version. EA started reusing titles
for its games and there is a completely different game --not a remake,
just a totally different racer-- released in 2012 that shares the same
name. It's not a bad game but it's not the one I think is anywhere
near the best. (EA did something similar with the "Hot Pursuit" game,
and in 2016 released a game sans any numbering or subtitle, just
called "Need For Speed", just to make things even more confusing).

*** honestly, story in these racers is generally an unwanted thing but
if you're going to put one there, at least make it not too annoying.
Most Wanted's storyline was still pretty bad, but it was the least
annoying of them all, IMHO

Mike S <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote at 14:04 this Thursday (GMT):
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 12:17:45 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>>What's so special about Ultima IV as I had it on the Atari ST, never got
>>into it but I do still have the original box although I've lost that
>>cloth map, and I also now have it on GoG as a freebie.
>>
>>Is it actually worth playing now just to see what it's all about?
>
> There is no Ultimate Bad Guy(tm) to defeat in Ultima 4. You have to
> become the Avatar by following the eight virtues. Some of them include
> Honor, Sacrifice, Humility, Honesty and Justice. Fail at any of them
> and you can't complete the game.
>
> What I personally really enjoyed was exploring Britannia and its towns
> and talking to all of the people. When you talk to them, you have to
> pick up on 'keywords' and type them in to continue the conversation.
>
> So If a character you talk to says 'This is Moonglow! The town of
> honesty!. You then can type 'honesty' and the NPC will say more.
> Ultima 5 takes this much further as conversations in that game are
> more in-depth.
>
> I like old games, especially RPGs, so it is was definitely worth
> playing for me.

That seems like a realyl creative way to "respond" to a NPC without
resorting to dialouge trees (not that they're neccesarily bad). I kinda
wish more games implemented something like that.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 15:28 this Thursday (GMT):
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 06:51:03 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>There's other games like SSI's Pool of Radiance that feel almost
>>unplayable and not terribly fun that I would put on as best games of all
>>time that have aged poorly and I wouldn't recommend to anyone who wasn't
>>already getting into AD&D and only as more historical look at how it
>>could be interpreted, more of an academic pursuit.
>
>
> Now, THERE is an interesting concept for a listicle: Best Games Ever
> that you shouldn't play because they haven't aged well.
>
> I'll leave it up to somebody else to start that thread and offer up
> some examples, though.

The only one I can think of is "Pathologic", but for different reasons..
--
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 16:29 this Saturday (GMT):
> On Sat, 01 Feb 2025 01:36:25 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>
>>Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 10:30:16 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
>>> <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> >The gameplay of "Syndicate" was awesome, but what I really remember
>>> >about it was its intro cinematic. A full-screen animation (back when
>>> >full-screen anything was still rare), it was incredibly stylish and
>>> >hinted at depths to the world that neither the manual nor the game
>>> >itself lived up to. It could be launched with its own executable
>>> >(intro.exe) which I would run again and again, just because it was
>>> >_that_ cool. To quote an earlier poster in this thread:
>>> >
>>> > "The music was great to a younger me sitting in a dark
>>> > cold bedroom staring at a 14" CRT with small speakers
>>> > blasting out, the soundtrack, happy days"
>>
>>> I remember the music of the Syndicate intro very well. If I heard it
>>> now, I would recognize it immediately.
>>
>>And the animation! I couldn't play the demo on my IBM PS/2 model 30 286
>>10 Mhz PC. :( My next door neighbor (I miss him) could on his custom
>>built 386 PC so we played there. Haha.
>>
>
> For those of you wondering, "What are all these old farts talking
> about? How good could that intro really be?", let me present you with:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrR2N7C7Ddk
>
>
> Although watching that cutscene again reminds me of a question I've
> always wondered: is the cyborgization machine SUPPOSED to look like it
> has googly-eyes?
>
>>> >(And speaking of music and games from Bullfrog... "Lemmings", amirite?
>>> >Such catchy remixes of old classics, all 'sung' through the squeal of
>>> >a Soundblaster's OPL3 chip. I'm pretty sure that the game itself
>>> >wouldn't have reached the heights of popularity it did with a
>>> >different soundtrack.
>>
>>> Lemmings had a lot catchy tunes. I have several in my soundtrack
>>> collection. But I don't think Bullfrog had anything to do with
>>> Lemmings. That was published by Psygnosis I think.
>>
>>Yeah, not from Bullfrog (RIP). Lemmings was fun. I never liked the 3D
>>version though!
>
> Honestly, I never cared much for any of the sequels. This probably
> won't surprise any of you who've been paying attention to my rants,
> but the added complexities in the sequels (new tribes, new abilities)
> had little appeal for me. It all felt more for the sake of being more.
> Rather than adding more abilities to the lemmings, I'd have rather the
> developers just worked on differentiating the maps with new tricks and
> traps.
>
> Lemmings was sublime. Lemmings 2 was okay. The rest (Chronicles,
> Lemmings 3D, etc.) just descended into ever deepening levels of
> mediocrity.
>
> It didn't help that Bullfrog kept trying to play up the characters of
> the Lemmings. The critters were cute, but they were one-note jokes,
> and despite all of Bullfrog's attempts to add history and lore, just
> didn't have the depth of character to support it. And the game really
> didn't need it; "just keep these weird green-haired idiots from
> plummeting off the edge of the map" was enough to keep up interest, I
> think.

Wow, that definitely is a very cool opening to a game.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 00:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07
<candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 15:28 this Thursday (GMT):
>> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 06:51:03 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There's other games like SSI's Pool of Radiance that feel almost
>>>unplayable and not terribly fun that I would put on as best games of all
>>>time that have aged poorly and I wouldn't recommend to anyone who wasn't
>>>already getting into AD&D and only as more historical look at how it
>>>could be interpreted, more of an academic pursuit.
>>
>>
>> Now, THERE is an interesting concept for a listicle: Best Games Ever
>> that you shouldn't play because they haven't aged well.
>>
>> I'll leave it up to somebody else to start that thread and offer up
>> some examples, though.
>
>
>The only one I can think of is "Pathologic", but for different reasons..

Okay, I'll bite; what reasons?

I can't remember if I played Pathologic or not. It's from 2005 and
even back then I was acquiring games at an unhealthy rate (nothing
compared to now, when free games shower us weekly, but still quite a
lot). I made an attempt to play all of them, but sometimes I'd buy a
game, install it, play it a few minutes then move on to something else

[usually this happened when I bought multiple games at once
and I'd install the less-exciting game first, only to abandon
it quickly for the game I /really/ wanted to play]

I think Pathologic was one of these. But I can't remember a thing
about it. It's quite possible I never even gave it a chance (it was
unusual, but that occasionally happened. I'm looking at you, "Odium").
Looking on Steam, it doesn't look /too/ bad. Sure, it's very 2005ish;
a sort of Slavjank "Silent Hill" but not --on the face of it-- not
looking absolutely terrible.

So why not play it?

No really. Save me from making an awful mistake, 'cause at the moment
I'm sort of tempted... and you know what happens when a game not in my
library attracts my attention. ;-)

On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 00:30:02 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07
<candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

>Mike S <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote at 14:04 this Thursday (GMT):
>> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 12:17:45 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>>
>>>What's so special about Ultima IV as I had it on the Atari ST, never got
>>>into it but I do still have the original box although I've lost that
>>>cloth map, and I also now have it on GoG as a freebie.
>>>
>>>Is it actually worth playing now just to see what it's all about?
>>
>> There is no Ultimate Bad Guy(tm) to defeat in Ultima 4. You have to
>> become the Avatar by following the eight virtues. Some of them include
>> Honor, Sacrifice, Humility, Honesty and Justice. Fail at any of them
>> and you can't complete the game.
>>
>> What I personally really enjoyed was exploring Britannia and its towns
>> and talking to all of the people. When you talk to them, you have to
>> pick up on 'keywords' and type them in to continue the conversation.
>>
>> So If a character you talk to says 'This is Moonglow! The town of
>> honesty!. You then can type 'honesty' and the NPC will say more.
>> Ultima 5 takes this much further as conversations in that game are
>> more in-depth.
>>
>> I like old games, especially RPGs, so it is was definitely worth
>> playing for me.
>
>
>That seems like a realyl creative way to "respond" to a NPC without
>resorting to dialouge trees (not that they're neccesarily bad). I kinda
>wish more games implemented something like that.

It used to be rather common in games. It does suffer from the fact
that you can often bypass entire portions of the quest if you know the
keywords ahead of time. For instance, in Ultima 5 there's an entire
miniquest to get a grappling hook (necessary to bypass the smaller
mountains in the game) that has you going back and forth across the
continent. But if you know ahead of time, you just run straight to the
guy who has it and say "grappling hook" and he gives it to you. ;-)

(Some games protected against this by raising quest flags that had to
be triggered first but that often caused other problems).

Plus, there's no personality to just shouting keywords at NPCs.
Ultima's "Avatar" protagonist was frequently lampooned as some goon
who shuffled into town and shouted "Name! Job! Bye!" (the three most
commonly used keywords) because for the vast number of NPCs, that's
all he'd say to them. Dialogue trees allowed the writers to insert
some identity into the characters.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 15:49 this Sunday (GMT):
> On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 00:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07
><candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:
>
>>Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 15:28 this Thursday (GMT):
>>> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 06:51:03 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>There's other games like SSI's Pool of Radiance that feel almost
>>>>unplayable and not terribly fun that I would put on as best games of all
>>>>time that have aged poorly and I wouldn't recommend to anyone who wasn't
>>>>already getting into AD&D and only as more historical look at how it
>>>>could be interpreted, more of an academic pursuit.
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, THERE is an interesting concept for a listicle: Best Games Ever
>>> that you shouldn't play because they haven't aged well.
>>>
>>> I'll leave it up to somebody else to start that thread and offer up
>>> some examples, though.
>>
>>
>>The only one I can think of is "Pathologic", but for different reasons..
>
> Okay, I'll bite; what reasons?
>
> I can't remember if I played Pathologic or not. It's from 2005 and
> even back then I was acquiring games at an unhealthy rate (nothing
> compared to now, when free games shower us weekly, but still quite a
> lot). I made an attempt to play all of them, but sometimes I'd buy a
> game, install it, play it a few minutes then move on to something else
>
> [usually this happened when I bought multiple games at once
> and I'd install the less-exciting game first, only to abandon
> it quickly for the game I /really/ wanted to play]
>
> I think Pathologic was one of these. But I can't remember a thing
> about it. It's quite possible I never even gave it a chance (it was
> unusual, but that occasionally happened. I'm looking at you, "Odium").
> Looking on Steam, it doesn't look /too/ bad. Sure, it's very 2005ish;
> a sort of Slavjank "Silent Hill" but not --on the face of it-- not
> looking absolutely terrible.
>
> So why not play it?
>
> No really. Save me from making an awful mistake, 'cause at the moment
> I'm sort of tempted... and you know what happens when a game not in my
> library attracts my attention. ;-)

Oh no, the game does EXACTLY what it sets out to do. It's designed to be
as miserable and soul crushing of an experience as possible, an
excersize in the futility of man against natural forces, it is so
brutally difficult that the achievement for passing the FIRST DAY has a
20% completion rate. If you get past that theres some cool story stuff
though.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom