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comp / comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action / Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"

SubjectAuthor
* "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
+- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"rms
+- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mark P. Nelson
+- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Dimensional Traveler
|`- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"JAB
+- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Anssi Saari
+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Justisaur
|+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Geeknix
|||`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||| +* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||| |`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||| | `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||| |  +- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||| |  `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
||| |   `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||| |    +- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
||| |    +- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
||| |    `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
||| `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ross Ridge
|||  `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||   `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
|||    +* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Dimensional Traveler
|||    |`- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||    `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||     `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
|||      `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Geeknix
|||`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||| +* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||| |`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||| | `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||| |  +- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||| |  `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
||| |   `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||| |    +- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
||| |    +- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
||| |    `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
||| `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ross Ridge
|||  `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||   `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
|||    +* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Dimensional Traveler
|||    |`- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||    `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||     `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
|||      `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Justisaur
|| +- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"JAB
|| `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||  +* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
||  |`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||  | `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
||  `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
||   `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||    `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
|+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||| `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ross Ridge
|||  `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
|||   `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Justisaur
|||    +* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
|||    |`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||    | `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
|||    `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||     `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
|||      `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||       `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"JAB
|||+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||||+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"JAB
|||||`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||||| `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||||  `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
||||+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
|||||`- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||||`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
|||| `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
|||`- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
||`- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Justisaur
|`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| +* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
| |`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| | `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ross Ridge
| |  `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| |   `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Justisaur
| |    +* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| |    |`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
| |    | `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| |    `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
| |     `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| |      `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
| |       `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| +* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"JAB
| |+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| ||+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"JAB
| |||`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| ||| `* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
| |||  `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Mike S.
| ||+* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
| ||`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"candycanearter07
| |`- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Spalls Hurgenson
| `- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Justisaur
+- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
+- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Ant
+- Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"Xocyll
`* Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"LucLan

Pages:123
Subject: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Spalls Hurgenson
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:33 UTC
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:33:47 +0000
From: spallshurgenson@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 10:33:47 -0500
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Continuing my recent trend of "let's steal topics from websites as a
stepping off point for new discussions", I present this one:

"8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/

To save you the effort of clicking and reading, here are the games
they list:

- Day of the Tentacle
- Doom
- Grand Theft Auto III
- Half-Life
- Half-Life 2
- Legend of Zelda
- Sim City 2000
- Simpsons: Hit & Run

Which is a fair list, I suppose. These are all games still worth
playing, if not to the end then just for a little while to see what
they were all about. They certainly aren't /must-play/ games (although
some of them, I think, might fall onto that list); just games that
-despite their age- still have value as forms of entertainment.

Except maybe "Simpsons: Hit and Run". The gameplay of that one was a
bit iffy and most of its charm came from its virtual recreation of
"The Simpsons" universe. But I don't think that franchise has quite
the same cachet as it did twenty years ago, and if you aren't a
die-hard fan you probably won't get much from the game.

Of all the games, I think only "Day of the Tentacle" still stands out
as a game that can be enjoyed for its gameplay. The rest are still
fun, but advancements in game design all make them feel a bit old. You
can enjoy the others, but it takes effort. DOTT, though, feels just as
fresh and fun (if a bit pixely in its graphics) as the day it was
released.

How many have you played? Have you any suggestions for other classics
you think people should play?

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: rms
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 16:34 UTC
References: 1
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net (rms)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 09:34:56 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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>- Sim City 2000
>- Simpsons: Hit & Run
Doubt I'll ever play these; simpsons annoys me and simulations I haven't
felt an attraction to, though I do own it already on gog.

> - Day of the Tentacle
This I haven't played and could certainly see doing (haven't played any
of the MIsland games either!)
> - Grand Theft Auto III
This is still expensive to buy, pass. I do own GTA5 for some reason, but
have a general antipathy to rockstar games
> - Legend of Zelda
pass

rms

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Mark P. Nelson
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: It Is To Laugh
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:54 UTC
References: 1
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: markpnelson@sbcglobal.net (Mark P. Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:54:12 -0000 (UTC)
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote in
news:h89fpjhfmieipq2s06sfj4l4gvm5h0gfiv@4ax.com:

> - Day of the Tentacle
> - Doom
> - Grand Theft Auto III
> - Half-Life
> - Half-Life 2
> - Legend of Zelda
> - Sim City 2000
> - Simpsons: Hit & Run

I've played Doom, and I still have a copy of DotT.

I think the Mass Effect games 1-3 are still must-play today, along with Vampire: the
Masquerade - Bloodlines. The Shadowrun trilogy and the two KotOR games, the first Witcher
game and The Technomancer all stand out in my mind.

Along with a whole host of very honorable mentions.

Then there's Sturgeon's law.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Mike S.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:13 UTC
References: 1
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From: Mike_S@nowhere.com (Mike S.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Message-ID: <p7mfpj5135nc0h24l73bllge1hfve2hd6c@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 10:33:47 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

> - Day of the Tentacle
> - Doom
> - Grand Theft Auto III
> - Half-Life
> - Half-Life 2
> - Legend of Zelda
> - Sim City 2000
> - Simpsons: Hit & Run

>How many have you played? Have you any suggestions for other classics
>you think people should play?

I played Day of the Tentacle, Doom and Sim City 2K. I would play Day
of the Tentacle again but not the other two. I would rather play Sim
City 3K. It has much nicer graphics and sound. I don't think I would
ever play any of the other games on that list. Maybe Half-Life at some
point.

As for my own suggestions, Diablo 2 and Age of Empires 2. Replace with
the first games if these sequels aren't classic enough. :-P

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Dimensional Traveler
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 01:41 UTC
References: 1
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dtravel@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:41:13 -0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 1/27/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> Continuing my recent trend of "let's steal topics from websites as a
> stepping off point for new discussions", I present this one:
>
> "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
> https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/
>
> To save you the effort of clicking and reading, here are the games
> they list:
>
> - Day of the Tentacle
> - Doom
> - Grand Theft Auto III
> - Half-Life
> - Half-Life 2
> - Legend of Zelda
> - Sim City 2000
> - Simpsons: Hit & Run
>
Of which I have played exactly... *counts* ...zero of them.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: JAB
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 09:53 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: noway@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 09:53:31 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 28/01/2025 01:41, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 1/27/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> Continuing my recent trend of "let's steal topics from websites as a
>> stepping off point for new discussions", I present this one:
>>
>> "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
>> https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/
>>
>> To save you the effort of clicking and reading, here are the games
>> they list:
>>
>>      - Day of the Tentacle
>>      - Doom
>>      - Grand Theft Auto III
>>      - Half-Life
>>      - Half-Life 2
>>      - Legend of Zelda
>>      - Sim City 2000
>>      - Simpsons: Hit & Run
>>
> Of which I have played exactly... *counts* ...zero of them.
>

I've managed two, HL:1/2. Out of the rest, I can't say I see any that I
think I should play that.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Anssi Saari
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: An impatient and LOUD arachnid
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 12:55 UTC
References: 1
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi (Anssi Saari)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 14:55:40 +0200
Organization: An impatient and LOUD arachnid
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

> How many have you played? Have you any suggestions for other classics
> you think people should play?

Let's see, I haven't played Half-Life, Legend of Zelda, Sim City 2000,
Simpsons: Hit & Run so only half. I don't think I particularly want to
play these either.

Day of the Tentacle might be something to replay. I don't think I've
ever finished it.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Justisaur
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 15:02 UTC
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From: justisaur@gmail.com (Justisaur)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800
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On 1/27/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> Continuing my recent trend of "let's steal topics from websites as a
> stepping off point for new discussions", I present this one:
>
> "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
> https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/
>
> To save you the effort of clicking and reading, here are the games
> they list:
>
> - Day of the Tentacle
> - Doom
> - Grand Theft Auto III
> - Half-Life
> - Half-Life 2
> - Legend of Zelda
> - Sim City 2000
> - Simpsons: Hit & Run

> How many have you played? Have you any suggestions for other classics
> you think people should play?

All of them.

To the ones I'd think you should play if you haven't:
I'd say GTA III VC, over III. and Half-Life are the only ones on that
list I'd say to play.

So my list of 8

Half-Life
GTA III VC
Master of Magic (arguably MoO instead, but I prefer MoM)
Fallout
Populous
Elite
Star-Control II
Ultima

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
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Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Spalls Hurgenson
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 16:09 UTC
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From: spallshurgenson@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
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Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 11:09:36 -0500
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On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>So my list of 8
>
>Half-Life
>GTA III VC
>Master of Magic (arguably MoO instead, but I prefer MoM)
>Fallout
>Populous
>Elite
>Star-Control II
>Ultima

I'm definitely more of a "Master Of Orion" person myself, although I
can see the appeal of "Master of Magic" for some. For me, MOM was a
bit too nitty-gritty; I much preferred the high-level approach in the
first Orion game.

"Populous" is a genre of god-game that I think needs to make a
come-back (although I was always more fond of the sequel). There have
been attempts to revitalize the god-game genre, but they always added
too many layers of complexity to the game, and I think that what made
"Populous" so addictive was its simplicity. It was a very hands-off
sort of game, where most of the action took place outside of the
player's control, and you had to swoop in only at critical junctures
to make sure the outcome of a battle went in your favor. "Populous" is
actually one of those games that /benefits/ from its technological
limitations, with its small view-window keeping you focused on just a
tiny part of the world at once. Even just the ability to zoom out to a
more macro-level view of the world works against the game's balance, I
feel.

I'm a lot less sanguine about games like "Fallout" and "Elite". While
historically notable and certainly fun for their time, I think the
games haven't aged gracefully (and as much as it hurts me to say it,
that probably applies to the "Ultimas" as well). These classics have
value but they're hard to recommend to modern gamers because they are
so lacking in basic quality-of-life features that we've come to take
for granted. Some older games can overcome these limitations but with
others I think they're too intrinsic to the game to make for a fun
experience.

Anyway, the list was never a "must play" sort of thing, just a "hey,
these games are still enjoyable despite the fact that they are so old,
so maybe give them a chance". Pretty much all of them (again, with the
possible exception of "Day of the Tentacle", which I think holds up
remarkably well except for its VGA-visuals... and even that is less a
problem than you might think once you apply some filtering and
upscaling) will require some effort to enjoy.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Mike S.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2025 14:17 UTC
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Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
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On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Half-Life
>GTA III VC
>Master of Magic (arguably MoO instead, but I prefer MoM)
>Fallout
>Populous
>Elite
>Star-Control II
>Ultima

I prefer MOO but I always felt that MOM was more popular so I think
your choice makes more sense.

As for Ultima, which one? The first one is too old and too weird for
classic status IMO. I would nominate either Ultima 4 or 7 myself.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Spalls Hurgenson
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
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From: spallshurgenson@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2025 11:19:20 -0500
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On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 09:17:04 -0500, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Half-Life
>>GTA III VC
>>Master of Magic (arguably MoO instead, but I prefer MoM)
>>Fallout
>>Populous
>>Elite
>>Star-Control II
>>Ultima
>
>I prefer MOO but I always felt that MOM was more popular so I think
>your choice makes more sense.
>
>As for Ultima, which one? The first one is too old and too weird for
>classic status IMO. I would nominate either Ultima 4 or 7 myself.

Oh, Ultima Underworld for sure. It's the most playable and most
accessible of all the Ultimas, especially to modern gamers.

If we're going to include the main line of games, Ultima 7 is a
shoo-in, but I'm on the fence between Ultima 4 and 5. U4 had its
unique story-line, but U5 added a lot of necessary QOL features that
just made the game a lot more fun.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Ant
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Definitely Doom and HL games. ;) I never played GTA FPS games. I only
played its original top views (e.g., GTA1) in college.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Continuing my recent trend of "let's steal topics from websites as a
> stepping off point for new discussions", I present this one:

> "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
> https://www.xda-developers.com/classic-games-havent-played-but-should/

> To save you the effort of clicking and reading, here are the games
> they list:

> - Day of the Tentacle
> - Doom
> - Grand Theft Auto III
> - Half-Life
> - Half-Life 2
> - Legend of Zelda
> - Sim City 2000
> - Simpsons: Hit & Run

> Which is a fair list, I suppose. These are all games still worth
> playing, if not to the end then just for a little while to see what
> they were all about. They certainly aren't /must-play/ games (although
> some of them, I think, might fall onto that list); just games that
> -despite their age- still have value as forms of entertainment.

> Except maybe "Simpsons: Hit and Run". The gameplay of that one was a
> bit iffy and most of its charm came from its virtual recreation of
> "The Simpsons" universe. But I don't think that franchise has quite
> the same cachet as it did twenty years ago, and if you aren't a
> die-hard fan you probably won't get much from the game.

> Of all the games, I think only "Day of the Tentacle" still stands out
> as a game that can be enjoyed for its gameplay. The rest are still
> fun, but advancements in game design all make them feel a bit old. You
> can enjoy the others, but it takes effort. DOTT, though, feels just as
> fresh and fun (if a bit pixely in its graphics) as the day it was
> released.

> How many have you played? Have you any suggestions for other classics
> you think people should play?

--
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Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Mike S.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:56 UTC
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On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 11:19:20 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>Oh, Ultima Underworld for sure. It's the most playable and most
>accessible of all the Ultimas, especially to modern gamers.

Definitely agree here but I was going off of Justisaur's post and I
assumed he was thinking of the mainline entries.

>If we're going to include the main line of games, Ultima 7 is a
>shoo-in, but I'm on the fence between Ultima 4 and 5. U4 had its
>unique story-line, but U5 added a lot of necessary QOL features that
>just made the game a lot more fun.

I agree again. I like Ultima 5 more then 4 but I went with 4 because
of how damn unique it actually was and still is. I went with 7 as an
alternative due to its incredible 'living' world and I also think it
is just the best game in the mainline series.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Geeknix
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On 2025-01-28, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> "Populous" is a genre of god-game that I think needs to make a
> come-back (although I was always more fond of the sequel). There have
> been attempts to revitalize the god-game genre, but they always added
> too many layers of complexity to the game, and I think that what made
> "Populous" so addictive was its simplicity. It was a very hands-off
> sort of game, where most of the action took place outside of the
> player's control, and you had to swoop in only at critical junctures
> to make sure the outcome of a battle went in your favor. "Populous" is
> actually one of those games that /benefits/ from its technological
> limitations, with its small view-window keeping you focused on just a
> tiny part of the world at once. Even just the ability to zoom out to a
> more macro-level view of the world works against the game's balance, I
> feel.

I never played Populous, never understood it, but then again I never
really looked at it or tried. My younger self just thought it was a rip
off of Powermonger without the fighting.

I played Powermonger a lot on the Amiga, I sometimes just played the
intro over and over. The music was great to a younger me sitting in a
dark cold bedroom staring at a 14" CRT with small speakers blasting out
the soundtrack, happy days. I also somehow stubbled across some kind of
bug that gave my troops infinite strength, but they looked a little
glitchy.

I just tried searching to see if this glitch was a thing. I couldn't
find anything about it. The only bug mentioned was that sometimes the
shepard's looked like they were doing something lewd to their flock!

Sorry, but I can't help thinking of Powermonger whenever Populous is
mentioned. Now I'm going to watch the intro on YouTube and maybe look up
Mega-lo-mania also. Thanks for the memory trigger..

--
Don't be afraid of the deep...
--[ bbs.bottomlessabyss.net | https | telnet=2023 ]--
--[ /query geeknix on libera.chat | tilde.chat ]--

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: JAB
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On 29/01/2025 14:17, Mike S. wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Half-Life
>> GTA III VC
>> Master of Magic (arguably MoO instead, but I prefer MoM)
>> Fallout
>> Populous
>> Elite
>> Star-Control II
>> Ultima
>
> I prefer MOO but I always felt that MOM was more popular so I think
> your choice makes more sense.
>
> As for Ultima, which one? The first one is too old and too weird for
> classic status IMO. I would nominate either Ultima 4 or 7 myself.

What's so special about Ultima IV as I had it on the Atari ST, never got
into it but I do still have the original box although I've lost that
cloth map, and I also now have it on GoG as a freebie.

Is it actually worth playing now just to see what it's all about?

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Mike S.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 14:04 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
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On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 12:17:45 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>What's so special about Ultima IV as I had it on the Atari ST, never got
>into it but I do still have the original box although I've lost that
>cloth map, and I also now have it on GoG as a freebie.
>
>Is it actually worth playing now just to see what it's all about?

There is no Ultimate Bad Guy(tm) to defeat in Ultima 4. You have to
become the Avatar by following the eight virtues. Some of them include
Honor, Sacrifice, Humility, Honesty and Justice. Fail at any of them
and you can't complete the game.

What I personally really enjoyed was exploring Britannia and its towns
and talking to all of the people. When you talk to them, you have to
pick up on 'keywords' and type them in to continue the conversation.

So If a character you talk to says 'This is Moonglow! The town of
honesty!. You then can type 'honesty' and the NPC will say more.
Ultima 5 takes this much further as conversations in that game are
more in-depth.

I like old games, especially RPGs, so it is was definitely worth
playing for me.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Justisaur
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 14:51 UTC
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From: justisaur@gmail.com (Justisaur)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 06:51:03 -0800
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On 1/28/2025 8:09 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> So my list of 8
>>
>> Half-Life
>> GTA III VC
>> Master of Magic (arguably MoO instead, but I prefer MoM)
>> Fallout
>> Populous
>> Elite
>> Star-Control II
>> Ultima
>

>
> "Populous" is a genre of god-game that I think needs to make a
> come-back (although I was always more fond of the sequel). There have
> been attempts to revitalize the god-game genre, but they always added
> too many layers of complexity to the game, and I think that what made
> "Populous" so addictive was its simplicity. It was a very hands-off
> sort of game, where most of the action took place outside of the
> player's control, and you had to swoop in only at critical junctures
> to make sure the outcome of a battle went in your favor. "Populous" is
> actually one of those games that /benefits/ from its technological
> limitations, with its small view-window keeping you focused on just a
> tiny part of the world at once. Even just the ability to zoom out to a
> more macro-level view of the world works against the game's balance, I
> feel.

While I like Populous II it added too much. The simplicity and near
endlessness* of the original was never duplicated. Populous II by
adding so much became something else. It think the original would make
a good mobile game even now if the controls were good.

* I did get stuck at world five hundred something but I understand it
went to 999.

> I'm a lot less sanguine about games like "Fallout" and "Elite". While
> historically notable and certainly fun for their time, I think the
> games haven't aged gracefully (and as much as it hurts me to say it,
> that probably applies to the "Ultimas" as well). These classics have
> value but they're hard to recommend to modern gamers because they are
> so lacking in basic quality-of-life features that we've come to take
> for granted. Some older games can overcome these limitations but with
> others I think they're too intrinsic to the game to make for a fun
> experience.

People are still going back to try Fallout and enjoying it after playing
the latest of the Bethesda games. Elite, not so much true, but I think
it's still playable and enjoyable, and good to see as a root of
space-sims with just the basics. Though those aren't all that popular
compared to other genres.

> Anyway, the list was never a "must play" sort of thing, just a "hey,
> these games are still enjoyable despite the fact that they are so old,
> so maybe give them a chance". Pretty much all of them (again, with the
> possible exception of "Day of the Tentacle", which I think holds up
> remarkably well except for its VGA-visuals... and even that is less a
> problem than you might think once you apply some filtering and
> upscaling) will require some effort to enjoy.

I think they're all playable and fun still, but I do prefer Fallout II
to Fallout I for fun. I've fallen off the replaying them, but I'm not
so sure they've aged poorly, of if it's just I played them so much I it
feels that I've hit too much repetition.

There's other games like SSI's Pool of Radiance that feel almost
unplayable and not terribly fun that I would put on as best games of all
time that have aged poorly and I wouldn't recommend to anyone who wasn't
already getting into AD&D and only as more historical look at how it
could be interpreted, more of an academic pursuit.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Justisaur
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 14:56 UTC
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From: justisaur@gmail.com (Justisaur)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 06:56:55 -0800
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On 1/29/2025 6:17 AM, Mike S. wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Half-Life
>> GTA III VC
>> Master of Magic (arguably MoO instead, but I prefer MoM)
>> Fallout
>> Populous
>> Elite
>> Star-Control II
>> Ultima
>
> I prefer MOO but I always felt that MOM was more popular so I think
> your choice makes more sense.

> As for Ultima, which one? The first one is too old and too weird for
> classic status IMO. I would nominate either Ultima 4 or 7 myself.

The first one. It's the only one I could ever get into and enjoy. I
did replay it some time ago and quite enjoyed it. Maybe even my replay
of it is too long ago now though.

I was actually on the fence about Ultima, and I was almost thinking of
saying Temple of Apshai which probably holds up better in its simplicity.

There's also the issue of what year a 'classic' is. I'll note those are
all PC games as well, other than GTA which was also on console and
that's where I played it, and is I think the newest on my list.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: JAB
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Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:03 UTC
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From: noway@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
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On 30/01/2025 14:51, Justisaur wrote:
> While I like Populous II it added too much.  The simplicity and near
> endlessness* of the original was never duplicated.  Populous II by
> adding so much became something else.  It think the original would make
> a good mobile game even now if the controls were good.

What it needed was NFT's!

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Spalls Hurgenson
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:25 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
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From: spallshurgenson@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
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On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 23:00:03 GMT, Geeknix
<usenet@apple.geeknix135.net> wrote:

>On 2025-01-28, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> "Populous" is a genre of god-game that I think needs to make a
>> come-back (although I was always more fond of the sequel). There have
>> been attempts to revitalize the god-game genre, but they always added
>> too many layers of complexity to the game, and I think that what made
>> "Populous" so addictive was its simplicity. It was a very hands-off
>> sort of game, where most of the action took place outside of the
>> player's control, and you had to swoop in only at critical junctures
>> to make sure the outcome of a battle went in your favor. "Populous" is
>> actually one of those games that /benefits/ from its technological
>> limitations, with its small view-window keeping you focused on just a
>> tiny part of the world at once. Even just the ability to zoom out to a
>> more macro-level view of the world works against the game's balance, I
>> feel.
>
>I never played Populous, never understood it, but then again I never
>really looked at it or tried. My younger self just thought it was a rip
>off of Powermonger without the fighting.
>
>I played Powermonger a lot on the Amiga, I sometimes just played the
>intro over and over. The music was great to a younger me sitting in a
>dark cold bedroom staring at a 14" CRT with small speakers blasting out
>the soundtrack, happy days. I also somehow stubbled across some kind of
>bug that gave my troops infinite strength, but they looked a little
>glitchy.
>
>I just tried searching to see if this glitch was a thing. I couldn't
>find anything about it. The only bug mentioned was that sometimes the
>shepard's looked like they were doing something lewd to their flock!
>
>Sorry, but I can't help thinking of Powermonger whenever Populous is
>mentioned. Now I'm going to watch the intro on YouTube and maybe look up
>Mega-lo-mania also. Thanks for the memory trigger..

Heheh. I was the opposite. "Powermonger", for me, was a rip-off of
"Populous". Although seeing as both games were developed at Bullfrog
(albeit not by the same teams), in either case 'rip-off' is probably
inaccurate.

Peter Molyneux was a fan though. He once said it was "better than
Populous". High praise from the guy who developed "Populous" in the
first place.

Personally, I preferred the older game. "Powermonger" just added on
layers of complexity I felt were unnecessary. Although, again, that
might be because I came across it later. Perhaps had I played
"Powermonger" first, I would have been bitching about how stupidly
simplified they'd made "Populous". ;-P

Can we both agree, though, that "Syndicate" was the better of both
games? ;-)

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Spalls Hurgenson
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:28 UTC
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Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
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On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 06:51:03 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
wrote:

>There's other games like SSI's Pool of Radiance that feel almost
>unplayable and not terribly fun that I would put on as best games of all
>time that have aged poorly and I wouldn't recommend to anyone who wasn't
>already getting into AD&D and only as more historical look at how it
>could be interpreted, more of an academic pursuit.

Now, THERE is an interesting concept for a listicle: Best Games Ever
that you shouldn't play because they haven't aged well.

I'll leave it up to somebody else to start that thread and offer up
some examples, though.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Spalls Hurgenson
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:45 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
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From: spallshurgenson@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
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On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 12:17:45 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>On 29/01/2025 14:17, Mike S. wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:02:48 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Half-Life
>>> GTA III VC
>>> Master of Magic (arguably MoO instead, but I prefer MoM)
>>> Fallout
>>> Populous
>>> Elite
>>> Star-Control II
>>> Ultima
>>
>> I prefer MOO but I always felt that MOM was more popular so I think
>> your choice makes more sense.
>>
>> As for Ultima, which one? The first one is too old and too weird for
>> classic status IMO. I would nominate either Ultima 4 or 7 myself.
>
>What's so special about Ultima IV as I had it on the Atari ST, never got
>into it but I do still have the original box although I've lost that
>cloth map, and I also now have it on GoG as a freebie.
>
>Is it actually worth playing now just to see what it's all about?

Oh man... that's really hard to answer. Especially as a fan of those
games!

First of all, if you ARE going to play it, grab the Ultima 4 Upgrade
Patch. It improves the graphics somewhat, adds some music, and adds a
few QOL features. http://www.moongates.com/u4/upgrade/Upgrade.htm

Ultima 4 was noteworthy mostly because it tried to break-away from the
usual murder-hobo dungeon-crawler structure that was the common theme
of pretty much every CRPG at the time. You weren't wandering the
world, scooping up loot and killing anything to move in the hopes of
leveling up just so you could kill the evil foozle at the end.
Instead, your goal was to become an 'avatar of virtue', which meant
playing a more nuanced hero. There was a lot more effort put into
world-design and setting, and a lot of progress in the adventure was
made through dialog rather than combat. This all sounds rather
ordinary today, but it really was quite revolutionary in 1985.

That said, the game is plagued by the technical limitations of its
era. There's only so much world-building you can do when you're
restricted to 720kb of data. Conversations are terse, characters are
fairly flat and there's only a limited amount of detail that can be
portrayed in the game itself (reading the manual is a must!). The
gameplay is also very repetitive. Visit 8 cities. Locate 8 runes.
Locate 8 mantras. Visit 8 shrines. Plunder 8 dungeons, each with 8
levels. The lack of an in-game journal means you're going to have to
take copious notes. The dungeons are annoyingly mazelike. The combat
is often tedious. It's limitations make it very hard for a modern
gamer to tolerate.

I don't want to totally hate on the game, because I think that there
is fun to be had still, but its not easy-going at times. Mostly, I
appreciate it for its historical value --for how it changed the
genre-- than for its actual gameplay.

"Ultima 5" is a little better. Its gameplay is still fairly repetitive
(although not quite as bad as "Ultima 4" but it has a slightly deeper
story and slightly more engaging quests. It's still something of a
slog, but it's more accessible. Although without a personal attachment
to the character and the world (which you really only get by enduring
"Ultima 4") I'm not sure U5 will have the same impact for a newcomer
as it did for people who played both games.

There's a fairly lengthy and comprehensive review of all the Ultima
games on YouTube

full playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWyHd3FFFU&list=PL16yfJJxAM6g-4YxKGI-17q-K3nrXuVSd" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWyHd3FFFU&list=PL16yfJJxAM6g-4YxKGI-17q-K3nrXuVSd
Just Ultima 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWyHd3FFFU

Admittedly, the reviewer is fairly long-winded (and, mind you, this
critique is coming from ME!) and they doesn't really tell long-term
Ultima fans anything they probably don't already know, but they gives
a good overview of why he feels the game is so notable and whether or
not its still worth playing.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Ross Ridge
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 18:10 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
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From: rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 18:10:17 -0000 (UTC)
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Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
>I agree again. I like Ultima 5 more then 4 but I went with 4 because
>of how damn unique it actually was and still is. I went with 7 as an
>alternative due to its incredible 'living' world and I also think it
>is just the best game in the mainline series.

I'm going to be contrarian here and recommend Ultima III as the one Ultima
game people should play to introduce them to the series. Sure, Ultima
IV and V have a better story, but by modern standards the story elements
of the games are so thin, it's hard to see that except by comparision to
the earlier games. I think the third game in the series shows off the
the basic mechanics and style of the the first five Ultima games, what
actually attracted people to play these games, without the distraction of
a "revolutionary" story that still only makes up a tiny part of the game.

On the other hand I see Ultima VI and VII as being dead-ends in terms of
their effect on game development. Sure the whole baking bread thing of
Ultima VII was infuluential, as were other elements of the "living world"
you mention, but these thing were just background to the actual gameplay
and style of the game. When later isometric RPGs came out, like Diablo,
Fallout and Baldur's Gate, they basically had to throw everything out
and start from scratch rather than build on what Ultima VII did.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: Mike S.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 18:44 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
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On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 10:25:51 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>Can we both agree, though, that "Syndicate" was the better of both
>games? ;-)

Yes.

Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
From: JAB
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 09:23 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
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From: noway@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: "8 Classic Games You Haven't Played (but should)"
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 09:23:42 +0000
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On 30/01/2025 14:04, Mike S. wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 12:17:45 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>> What's so special about Ultima IV as I had it on the Atari ST, never got
>> into it but I do still have the original box although I've lost that
>> cloth map, and I also now have it on GoG as a freebie.
>>
>> Is it actually worth playing now just to see what it's all about?
>
> There is no Ultimate Bad Guy(tm) to defeat in Ultima 4. You have to
> become the Avatar by following the eight virtues. Some of them include
> Honor, Sacrifice, Humility, Honesty and Justice. Fail at any of them
> and you can't complete the game.
>
> What I personally really enjoyed was exploring Britannia and its towns
> and talking to all of the people. When you talk to them, you have to
> pick up on 'keywords' and type them in to continue the conversation.
>
> So If a character you talk to says 'This is Moonglow! The town of
> honesty!. You then can type 'honesty' and the NPC will say more.
> Ultima 5 takes this much further as conversations in that game are
> more in-depth.
>
> I like old games, especially RPGs, so it is was definitely worth
> playing for me.

I think I well give it a go just to see why it's a game that gets
mentioned so often!

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