Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft carriers,
destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields and of course
ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming nukes. No
research, no resource gathering just you all get the same units to
deploy as you wish.

You start at Defcon five and as the timer ticks down that level is
raised meaning you get to place more units and eventually start actual
conventional combat. Once it reaches Defcon one all hell breaks lose and
it's a question of who is going to launch nukes first with an
accompanying siren noise. See a city hit and all that's shown is a white
flash and in big letters the death toll in millions. This happens over
and over again until the world is filled with the glow of nuclear
strikes and the timer reaches zero. The winner is then announced based
on casualties for and against.

The part I found really horrific is that it's only after you've played
several games that it dawns on you that you're detached from what you're
doing (you cannot die) and are taking enjoyment in counting the death
toll you're causing while not overly caring of the death toll in your
continent. The finally part is when the results are shown as raw figures.

As the game says everybody dies. You don't win, instead you just don't
do as badly as everyone else.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 19:11:52 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, JAB
wrote:

>Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
>yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
>all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
>the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
>abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
>haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft carriers,
>destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields and of course
>ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming nukes. No
>research, no resource gathering just you all get the same units to
>deploy as you wish.
>
>You start at Defcon five and as the timer ticks down that level is
>raised meaning you get to place more units and eventually start actual
>conventional combat. Once it reaches Defcon one all hell breaks lose and
>it's a question of who is going to launch nukes first with an
>accompanying siren noise. See a city hit and all that's shown is a white
>flash and in big letters the death toll in millions. This happens over
>and over again until the world is filled with the glow of nuclear
>strikes and the timer reaches zero. The winner is then announced based
>on casualties for and against.
>
>The part I found really horrific is that it's only after you've played
>several games that it dawns on you that you're detached from what you're
>doing (you cannot die) and are taking enjoyment in counting the death
>toll you're causing while not overly caring of the death toll in your
>continent. The finally part is when the results are shown as raw figures.
>
>As the game says everybody dies. You don't win, instead you just don't
>do as badly as everyone else.

At the risk of being conceited, and long-winded, this is the preamble to
a game I wrote in the early 90s called "Friendly Fire." It was a game of
bluffing, double-bluffing, strategy, and dumb luck.

>Welcome to 2624 A.D. We understand that Timelift disorientation may have
>scrambled your brains a little, so I'll try and make this brief. Then you
>can see the lab boys in memory reconstitution so that you can remember who
>you are.
>
>Our planet is still torn by war. As you may have guessed, methods of
>killing have progressed phenomenally, but this has presented our armies
>with a major problem.
>
>In the 27th century, our methods of destruction are quite rapid and
>effective; perhaps, too rapid. We have been working on the perfection of
>Artificial Intelligence WAr Computers (AIWACs) with little success.
>They do not work properly. Of course, our politicians, who wouldn't come
>within a hundred miles of a combat zone, believe that they are working
>just fine. They continue to fund bigger and better weapons instead of
>the much needed AIWACplus project. You have been called to the future to
>serve the planet and assume the identity of these computers. Hopefully,
>no one will notice the difference. Our own soldiers are inadequate for
>the job because most of them couldn't care less who lives or dies any more.
>
>Let me explain that last statement... Our soldiers' despondent attitudes come
>from the fact that no one can determine who the enemy forces are fast enough
>to kill them before those who simply fire away have shot everything dead as
>a doornail. Therefore, "Shoot first, shoot last, dammit, shoot, shoot, shoot,
>and ask questions after the fallout clears" has been the policy that has
>dominated modern warfare for the past century. The AIWACs, which were installed
>about ten years ago, were supposed to be able to identify enemies fast enough
>to remedy this problem. However, they have now concurred that the hundred year
>old "Preemptive Annihilation" technique is the only logical strategy. The
>leadership of the Armed Forces believes that perhaps it is the lack of good
>family values that has permeated our culture, and subsequently been programmed
>into the computers, that is responsible for this dead-end in warfare.
>
>From our Army Corp of Historians archive files, we have determined that people
>of your time have the maximum in compassion for human life while possessing
>the minimum in technological skill to understand our warfare. Therefore, you
>are the ideal choice for replacement of the AIWAC system. We know that it is
>possible to identify the enemy quickly enough to fire at only the enemy, but
>it is impossible to make the AIWACs understand the difference between
>"friendly" troops and enemy troops. They continue to calculate the minimum
>number of human deaths to achieve victory in a given battle, often winning,
>but also often killing more "friendlies" than enemies. Your job is to win
>battles, but to make sure that more enemy troops die than "friendlies" and
>that as few "friendlies" die as is possible. If you fail to achieve this
>mission, you will be shot and replaced. We must guarantee the lives of good
>men over those of the enemy.
>
>Here is what you will face. All troops are accounted for and identified by the
>Master War Computer (MAWARC). All AIWACs are granted equal and complete access
>by the terms of the Universal Disclosure Agreement (UDA), established at the
>Geneva convention of 2623. Because of the UDA, it is impossible to keep
>transponder codes a secret (these codes are used to identify troops), for they
>are all stored in MAWARC. Due to this, AIWACs have designed a technique known
>as "lying." What this means is that at any given time, 20 - 50% of what MAWARC
>tells you are your own troops are actually enemies with a forged transponder
>code. This creates what is known as the "friendly fire" problem. It is up to
>you to solve it. You have vast weaponry at your fingertips. You have the
>compassion and the values to determine the good from the bad. Solve our problem.
>If you do not, you will be promptly executed. Good luck, and enjoy the
>return of your memories.

For some reason, your story about Defcon reminded me of it.

--
Zag

This is csipg.rpg - reality is off topic. ...G. Quinn ('08)

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 19:11:52 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
>yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
>all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
>the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
>abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
>haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft carriers,
>destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields and of course
>ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming nukes. No
>research, no resource gathering just you all get the same units to
>deploy as you wish.

There have actually been a number of games called DEFCON over the
years (most sporting similar concepts), but I'm guessing you mean the
classic from Introversion Software.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1520/DEFCON/
https://www.gog.com/en/game/defcon

I can't say I was as enthralled with the gameplay or concept as you,
but I /loved/ the presentation; it's almost neon-colored display
representing Hollywood's interpretation of the 'big board' maps used
by strategic air command. It's gorgeous in its stark simplicity.

And the game is an absolute blast to play with friends. At least in
short bursts. As mentioned, it's not really a game you can win and the
real joy comes when you start launching the nukes willy-nilly in a
spasm of amageddic fire. Usually (at least in my experience) there's
very little actual strategy; most people just go right to the nukes as
soon as they can. I guess because everybody just wants to see the
world burn?

It doesn't make for long-term play sessions, but it's one of those
rare 'party games' I actually think is worth playing.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 19:11:52 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>>Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
>>yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
>>all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
>>the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
>>abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
>>haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft carriers,
>>destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields and of course
>>ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming nukes. No
>>research, no resource gathering just you all get the same units to
>>deploy as you wish.
>
>There have actually been a number of games called DEFCON over the
>years (most sporting similar concepts), but I'm guessing you mean the
>classic from Introversion Software.
>
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1520/DEFCON/
>https://www.gog.com/en/game/defcon
>
>I can't say I was as enthralled with the gameplay or concept as you,
>but I /loved/ the presentation; it's almost neon-colored display
>representing Hollywood's interpretation of the 'big board' maps used
>by strategic air command. It's gorgeous in its stark simplicity.
>
>And the game is an absolute blast to play with friends. At least in
>short bursts. As mentioned, it's not really a game you can win and the
>real joy comes when you start launching the nukes willy-nilly in a
>spasm of amageddic fire. Usually (at least in my experience) there's
>very little actual strategy; most people just go right to the nukes as
>soon as they can. I guess because everybody just wants to see the
>world burn?
>
>It doesn't make for long-term play sessions, but it's one of those
>rare 'party games' I actually think is worth playing.

Have friends over, get drunk, nuke the world?

Xocyll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLJVLwB51LA is all I need to say from
this rad movie. I enjoyed both. I remember seeing it in the theatre with
my colony, but I cared not. I saw it again a few decades ago when I was
older. I loved it. I haven't seen its sequel, but its ratings aren't good.

JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
> Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
> yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
> all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
> the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
> abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
> haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft carriers,
> destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields and of course
> ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming nukes. No
> research, no resource gathering just you all get the same units to
> deploy as you wish.

> You start at Defcon five and as the timer ticks down that level is
> raised meaning you get to place more units and eventually start actual
> conventional combat. Once it reaches Defcon one all hell breaks lose and
> it's a question of who is going to launch nukes first with an
> accompanying siren noise. See a city hit and all that's shown is a white
> flash and in big letters the death toll in millions. This happens over
> and over again until the world is filled with the glow of nuclear
> strikes and the timer reaches zero. The winner is then announced based
> on casualties for and against.

> The part I found really horrific is that it's only after you've played
> several games that it dawns on you that you're detached from what you're
> doing (you cannot die) and are taking enjoyment in counting the death
> toll you're causing while not overly caring of the death toll in your
> continent. The finally part is when the results are shown as raw figures.

> As the game says everybody dies. You don't win, instead you just don't
> do as badly as everyone else.

--
"You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires..." --Ephesians 4:22. It's hard 2 let go of the oldies. Still recovering from :) NYE achy tummy. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 19:11:52 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

> >Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
> >yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
> >all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
> >the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
> >abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
> >haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft carriers,
> >destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields and of course
> >ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming nukes. No
> >research, no resource gathering just you all get the same units to
> >deploy as you wish.

> There have actually been a number of games called DEFCON over the
> years (most sporting similar concepts), but I'm guessing you mean the
> classic from Introversion Software.

> https://store.steampowered.com/app/1520/DEFCON/
> https://www.gog.com/en/game/defcon

> I can't say I was as enthralled with the gameplay or concept as you,
> but I /loved/ the presentation; it's almost neon-colored display
> representing Hollywood's interpretation of the 'big board' maps used
> by strategic air command. It's gorgeous in its stark simplicity.

> And the game is an absolute blast to play with friends. At least in
> short bursts. As mentioned, it's not really a game you can win and the
> real joy comes when you start launching the nukes willy-nilly in a
> spasm of amageddic fire. Usually (at least in my experience) there's
> very little actual strategy; most people just go right to the nukes as
> soon as they can. I guess because everybody just wants to see the
> world burn?

> It doesn't make for long-term play sessions, but it's one of those
> rare 'party games' I actually think is worth playing.

I never got to play it with others. I loved this game and Wargames
movie! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLJVLwB51LA ;)

--
"You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires..." --Ephesians 4:22. It's hard 2 let go of the oldies. Still recovering from :) NYE achy tummy. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:

> >On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 19:11:52 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
> >>yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
> >>all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
> >>the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
> >>abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
> >>haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft carriers,
> >>destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields and of course
> >>ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming nukes. No
> >>research, no resource gathering just you all get the same units to
> >>deploy as you wish.
> >
> >There have actually been a number of games called DEFCON over the
> >years (most sporting similar concepts), but I'm guessing you mean the
> >classic from Introversion Software.
> >
> >https://store.steampowered.com/app/1520/DEFCON/
> >https://www.gog.com/en/game/defcon
> >
> >I can't say I was as enthralled with the gameplay or concept as you,
> >but I /loved/ the presentation; it's almost neon-colored display
> >representing Hollywood's interpretation of the 'big board' maps used
> >by strategic air command. It's gorgeous in its stark simplicity.
> >
> >And the game is an absolute blast to play with friends. At least in
> >short bursts. As mentioned, it's not really a game you can win and the
> >real joy comes when you start launching the nukes willy-nilly in a
> >spasm of amageddic fire. Usually (at least in my experience) there's
> >very little actual strategy; most people just go right to the nukes as
> >soon as they can. I guess because everybody just wants to see the
> >world burn?
> >
> >It doesn't make for long-term play sessions, but it's one of those
> >rare 'party games' I actually think is worth playing.

> Have friends over, get drunk, nuke the world?

Or online with you all. I'd nuke you all! /me pushes the big flashy red button! Also some related quotes with ants I collected:
"I really knew I wanted to be Adam, because Adam was the first man. Ant I chose because, if there's a nuclear explosion, the ants will survive." --Adam Ant
"The foreign policy aim of ants can be summed up as follows: restless aggression, territorial conquest, and genocidal annihilation of neighboring colonies whenever possible. If ants had nuclear weapons, they would probably end the world in a week." --Journey to the Ants, page 59. Bert Holldobler & Edward O. Wilson(RIP)

Ants will win. ;)
--
"You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires..." --Ephesians 4:22. It's hard 2 let go of the oldies. Still recovering from :) NYE achy tummy. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On Fri, 03 Jan 2025 20:50:30 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Defcon: Most horrifying game ever?
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2025 10:08:21 -0500
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On Fri, 03 Jan 2025 20:50:30 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLJVLwB51LA is all I need to say from
>this rad movie. I enjoyed both. I remember seeing it in the theatre with
>my colony, but I cared not. I saw it again a few decades ago when I was
>older. I loved it.

It really captured the zeitgeist of the era. The existential fear of
nuclear annihilation. The banality of suburban life. The belief that
technology would better the world. The hope in the younger generation
overcoming the sins of their elders. The conflict between America's
desire to do right (heck, still believing America wanted to 'do
right!) versus its inclination towards stupidity and evil.

Also, Ally Sheedy jogging in legwarmers.

Truly, a more accurate depiction of the early 80s has never been
filmed. ;-)

>I haven't seen its sequel, but its ratings aren't good.

It wasn't. I don't remember much about the movie (wasn't it
direct-to-video?) but I do remember being extremely disappointed.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On Fri, 03 Jan 2025 20:50:30 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLJVLwB51LA is all I need to say from
>>this rad movie. I enjoyed both. I remember seeing it in the theatre with
>>my colony, but I cared not. I saw it again a few decades ago when I was
>>older. I loved it.
>
>It really captured the zeitgeist of the era. The existential fear of
>nuclear annihilation. The banality of suburban life. The belief that
>technology would better the world. The hope in the younger generation
>overcoming the sins of their elders. The conflict between America's
>desire to do right (heck, still believing America wanted to 'do
>right!) versus its inclination towards stupidity and evil.
>
>Also, Ally Sheedy jogging in legwarmers.
>
>Truly, a more accurate depiction of the early 80s has never been
>filmed. ;-)

Watched that movie just the other day.

>>I haven't seen its sequel, but its ratings aren't good.
>
>It wasn't. I don't remember much about the movie (wasn't it
>direct-to-video?) but I do remember being extremely disappointed.

Wargames:The Dead Code, moronically stupid movie.

A gambling website featuring terrorism acts, to root out wannabe
terrorists, but the "AI" is framing people, so kid who makes bet is
suddenly being chased by the Feds for terrorism that of course never
actually happened.

Not a patch on the original.

How stupid is The Dead Code? It makes Hackers look like Oscar material.

Xocyll

On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 14:35:40 -0600, Zaghadka wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 19:11:52 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, JAB
> wrote:
>
>>Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
>>yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
>>all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
>>the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
>>abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
>>haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft carriers,
>>destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields and of course
>>ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming nukes. No
>>research, no resource gathering just you all get the same units to
>>deploy as you wish.
>>
>>You start at Defcon five and as the timer ticks down that level is
>>raised meaning you get to place more units and eventually start actual
>>conventional combat. Once it reaches Defcon one all hell breaks lose and
>>it's a question of who is going to launch nukes first with an
>>accompanying siren noise. See a city hit and all that's shown is a white
>>flash and in big letters the death toll in millions. This happens over
>>and over again until the world is filled with the glow of nuclear
>>strikes and the timer reaches zero. The winner is then announced based
>>on casualties for and against.
>>
>>The part I found really horrific is that it's only after you've played
>>several games that it dawns on you that you're detached from what you're
>>doing (you cannot die) and are taking enjoyment in counting the death
>>toll you're causing while not overly caring of the death toll in your
>>continent. The finally part is when the results are shown as raw
>>figures.
>>
>>As the game says everybody dies. You don't win, instead you just don't
>>do as badly as everyone else.
>
> At the risk of being conceited, and long-winded, this is the preamble to
> a game I wrote in the early 90s called "Friendly Fire." It was a game of
> bluffing, double-bluffing, strategy, and dumb luck.
>
>>Welcome to 2624 A.D.
[interesting game prologue snipped]

> For some reason, your story about Defcon reminded me of it.

Both also remind me of _Plague Inc.: Evolved_, which my Steam
library says I played in March of 2015.

I "won" the game, which was to wipe out humanity with a plague.
Very bleak when you actually do it, and I tell myself "it's only
a game. It's only a game..."

The feeling of doom as the human population counts down to
zero is profound.

It looks like they released a DLC called "The Cure" in 2021,
where you save the world. I might have to give that a try.

--
-Scott System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.12.8 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"The buck doesn't even slow down here!"

On 05/01/2025 11:12, vallor wrote:
>> For some reason, your story about Defcon reminded me of it.
> Both also remind me of_Plague Inc.: Evolved_, which my Steam
> library says I played in March of 2015.
>
> I "won" the game, which was to wipe out humanity with a plague.
> Very bleak when you actually do it, and I tell myself "it's only
> a game. It's only a game..."
>
> The feeling of doom as the human population counts down to
> zero is profound.
>
> It looks like they released a DLC called "The Cure" in 2021,
> where you save the world. I might have to give that a try.

I have that on the iPad and it's one of the few games where I think it's
a better platform that the PC. A bit bored on a train journey, just fire
it up and see how many people you can kill.

Like you, there is something morbid about watching those infected ships
and planes and hoping that you can start another infection.

On 03/01/2025 15:51, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> And the game is an absolute blast to play with friends. At least in
> short bursts. As mentioned, it's not really a game you can win and the
> real joy comes when you start launching the nukes willy-nilly in a
> spasm of amageddic fire. Usually (at least in my experience) there's
> very little actual strategy; most people just go right to the nukes as
> soon as they can. I guess because everybody just wants to see the
> world burn?

There is some strategy, although quite basic, of where are you going to
sit on the offensive to defensive strategy, where to place your
resources and which targets to prioritise. They key I found to do well
though, knowing the right point to back stab your allies before they do
it to you.

As an aside, it wasn't that uncommon for a player to take it rather
personally if they were back stabbed, that's part of the fun of the game
in my opinion and there's the dread of being mid-attack and seeing one
of your allies leave you alliance.

On Mon, 6 Jan 2025 08:10:37 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>Like you, there is something morbid about watching those infected ships
>and planes and hoping that you can start another infection.

"No,you stupid ship! Madagascar! Go to Madagascar! Argh!"

Although, I dunno, 5000 people left alive when the disease finally
dies out? I still count that as a win ;-)

On Mon, 6 Jan 2025 08:17:05 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>On 03/01/2025 15:51, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> And the game is an absolute blast to play with friends. At least in
>> short bursts. As mentioned, it's not really a game you can win and the
>> real joy comes when you start launching the nukes willy-nilly in a
>> spasm of amageddic fire. Usually (at least in my experience) there's
>> very little actual strategy; most people just go right to the nukes as
>> soon as they can. I guess because everybody just wants to see the
>> world burn?
>
>There is some strategy, although quite basic, of where are you going to
>sit on the offensive to defensive strategy, where to place your
>resources and which targets to prioritise. They key I found to do well
>though, knowing the right point to back stab your allies before they do
>it to you.

Oh, I wasn't dismissing the game so much as the players. You CAN use
strategy to get a higher score, but in my experience all this goes for
nought when the nukes start flying and people start getting excited.
People stop playing to win, and start playing just to see the big
explosions.

Which is, I think, the BEST way to play the game. I've _tried_ playing
the game strategically and it isn't anywhere near as fun.

Even Wargames in 1984 knew that.

LIST PRIMARY TARGETS
Who should we nuke first?
What about Las Vegas?
What else? Seattle!

Hey, what does all this [strategic gibberish on screen] mean?
I don't know, but it's great!

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Jan 2025 20:50:30 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLJVLwB51LA is all I need to say from
> >this rad movie. I enjoyed both. I remember seeing it in the theatre with
> >my colony, but I cared not. I saw it again a few decades ago when I was
> >older. I loved it.

> It really captured the zeitgeist of the era. The existential fear of
> nuclear annihilation. The banality of suburban life. The belief that
> technology would better the world. The hope in the younger generation
> overcoming the sins of their elders. The conflict between America's
> desire to do right (heck, still believing America wanted to 'do
> right!) versus its inclination towards stupidity and evil.

> Also, Ally Sheedy jogging in legwarmers.

> Truly, a more accurate depiction of the early 80s has never been
> filmed. ;-)

> >I haven't seen its sequel, but its ratings aren't good.

> It wasn't. I don't remember much about the movie (wasn't it
> direct-to-video?) but I do remember being extremely disappointed.

I think so. I didn't even bother.
--
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Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
....
> >>I haven't seen its sequel, but its ratings aren't good.
> >
> >It wasn't. I don't remember much about the movie (wasn't it
> >direct-to-video?) but I do remember being extremely disappointed.

> Wargames:The Dead Code, moronically stupid movie.

> A gambling website featuring terrorism acts, to root out wannabe
> terrorists, but the "AI" is framing people, so kid who makes bet is
> suddenly being chased by the Feds for terrorism that of course never
> actually happened.

> Not a patch on the original.

Sad. It's a good thing I didn't bother!

> How stupid is The Dead Code? It makes Hackers look like Oscar material.

"HACK THE PLANET!!!!!!!!!!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3CKgkyc7Qo
I enjoyed that movie even though it was silly. ;) If you want a really
good hacker series, then watch Mr. Robot TV show! It's even accurate!
--
"I will sing to the Lord all my life; I will sing praise to my God as long as I live. May my meditation be pleasing to him, as I rejoice in the Lord." --Psalm 104:33-34. Can't sing due to stuck Norovirus from :) NYE. :(
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ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
>...
>> >>I haven't seen its sequel, but its ratings aren't good.
>> >
>> >It wasn't. I don't remember much about the movie (wasn't it
>> >direct-to-video?) but I do remember being extremely disappointed.
>
>> Wargames:The Dead Code, moronically stupid movie.
>
>> A gambling website featuring terrorism acts, to root out wannabe
>> terrorists, but the "AI" is framing people, so kid who makes bet is
>> suddenly being chased by the Feds for terrorism that of course never
>> actually happened.
>
>> Not a patch on the original.
>
>Sad. It's a good thing I didn't bother!
>
>
>> How stupid is The Dead Code? It makes Hackers look like Oscar material.
>
>"HACK THE PLANET!!!!!!!!!!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3CKgkyc7Qo
>I enjoyed that movie even though it was silly. ;) If you want a really
>good hacker series, then watch Mr. Robot TV show! It's even accurate!

Hackers had two things going for it;
1. That it portrayed Hackers accurately as inquisitive people who did no
harm - Crackers did the harm, the robberies, etc, not Hackers, but the
media as always got it wrong.
2. Angelina Jolie in those tight white pants.

I actually watched that after watching Wargames.
Then Real Genius, Short Circuit 1 + 2, Gremlins 1 + 2, Small Soldiers.

A bit of an 80s and 90s kick.

I also have all of Mr. Robot saved and may rewatch it in the future.

Unfortunately it suffers from M. Night Shyamalan syndrome - the twist,
which once you know it, renders it less enjoyable watching a second
time.

Currently rewatching Eureka.

Xocyll

Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
> ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

> >Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
> >...
> >> >>I haven't seen its sequel, but its ratings aren't good.
> >> >
> >> >It wasn't. I don't remember much about the movie (wasn't it
> >> >direct-to-video?) but I do remember being extremely disappointed.
> >
> >> Wargames:The Dead Code, moronically stupid movie.
> >
> >> A gambling website featuring terrorism acts, to root out wannabe
> >> terrorists, but the "AI" is framing people, so kid who makes bet is
> >> suddenly being chased by the Feds for terrorism that of course never
> >> actually happened.
> >
> >> Not a patch on the original.
> >
> >Sad. It's a good thing I didn't bother!
> >
> >
> >> How stupid is The Dead Code? It makes Hackers look like Oscar material.
> >
> >"HACK THE PLANET!!!!!!!!!!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3CKgkyc7Qo
> >I enjoyed that movie even though it was silly. ;) If you want a really
> >good hacker series, then watch Mr. Robot TV show! It's even accurate!

> Hackers had two things going for it;
> 1. That it portrayed Hackers accurately as inquisitive people who did no
> harm - Crackers did the harm, the robberies, etc, not Hackers, but the
> media as always got it wrong.
> 2. Angelina Jolie in those tight white pants.

> I actually watched that after watching Wargames.
> Then Real Genius, Short Circuit 1 + 2, Gremlins 1 + 2, Small Soldiers.

I still need to see Real Genius (only saw that ending!). My friends told
me to watch it. I saw Short Circuit 1, but not its sequel (should I even
bother since it didn't get good ratings?). I did see Grelmins and
finally saw its sequel years ago (it was OK). Small Soldiers was kinda
fun.

> A bit of an 80s and 90s kick.

You forgot Goonies!

> I also have all of Mr. Robot saved and may rewatch it in the future.

> Unfortunately it suffers from M. Night Shyamalan syndrome - the twist,
> which once you know it, renders it less enjoyable watching a second
> time.

Why bother rewatching then? ;P

> Currently rewatching Eureka.

I never saw that one.
--
"Because of the Lord's great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness." --Lamentations 3:22-23. I want Nomovirus, not Norovirus from :) NYE. :P
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ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
>> ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
>> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>> >Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
>> >...
>> >> >>I haven't seen its sequel, but its ratings aren't good.
>> >> >
>> >> >It wasn't. I don't remember much about the movie (wasn't it
>> >> >direct-to-video?) but I do remember being extremely disappointed.
>> >
>> >> Wargames:The Dead Code, moronically stupid movie.
>> >
>> >> A gambling website featuring terrorism acts, to root out wannabe
>> >> terrorists, but the "AI" is framing people, so kid who makes bet is
>> >> suddenly being chased by the Feds for terrorism that of course never
>> >> actually happened.
>> >
>> >> Not a patch on the original.
>> >
>> >Sad. It's a good thing I didn't bother!
>> >
>> >
>> >> How stupid is The Dead Code? It makes Hackers look like Oscar material.
>> >
>> >"HACK THE PLANET!!!!!!!!!!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3CKgkyc7Qo
>> >I enjoyed that movie even though it was silly. ;) If you want a really
>> >good hacker series, then watch Mr. Robot TV show! It's even accurate!
>
>> Hackers had two things going for it;
>> 1. That it portrayed Hackers accurately as inquisitive people who did no
>> harm - Crackers did the harm, the robberies, etc, not Hackers, but the
>> media as always got it wrong.
>> 2. Angelina Jolie in those tight white pants.
>
>> I actually watched that after watching Wargames.
>> Then Real Genius, Short Circuit 1 + 2, Gremlins 1 + 2, Small Soldiers.
>
>I still need to see Real Genius (only saw that ending!). My friends told
>me to watch it. I saw Short Circuit 1, but not its sequel (should I even
>bother since it didn't get good ratings?). I did see Grelmins and
>finally saw its sequel years ago (it was OK). Small Soldiers was kinda
>fun.

Real Genius is excellent - I actually saw it twice in theatres.

SC2 is quite different from the original, the "star" is Fisher Stevens
(the "Indian" character from the first movie (also the Plague from
Hackers).)
Twists and turns, but not a bad movie in that 1980s fun style.
And also Cynthia Gibb (also from Fame, the series.)

>> A bit of an 80s and 90s kick.
>
>You forgot Goonies!

I have that too, but I was on a bit of a 80s/90s sci-fi kick and Goonies
is not that. Perhaps after I finish season 5 of Eureka.

>> I also have all of Mr. Robot saved and may rewatch it in the future.
>
>> Unfortunately it suffers from M. Night Shyamalan syndrome - the twist,
>> which once you know it, renders it less enjoyable watching a second
>> time.
>
>Why bother rewatching then? ;P

Exactly my point - the "twist" fucks things up - M. Night movies, Fight
Club and Mr. Robot all suffer from this.

>> Currently rewatching Eureka.
>
>I never saw that one.

Excellent series, as is Chuck, both 5 seasons.

Xocyll

>I still need to see Real Genius

I watched it a couple days ago, wonderful stuff.

rms

On 1/2/2025 11:11 AM, JAB wrote:
> Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
> yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
> all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
> the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
> abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
> haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft carriers,
> destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields and of course
> ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming nukes. No
> research, no resource gathering just you all get the same units to
> deploy as you wish.

Sounds almost like an expanded version of the 1965 card game Nuclear
War. We used to play that back in the 80's on occasion. Typically
everyone is wiped out and loses, but I remember one time someone survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_(card_game)

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 19:32:20 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Sounds almost like an expanded version of the 1965 card game Nuclear
>War. We used to play that back in the 80's on occasion. Typically
>everyone is wiped out and loses, but I remember one time someone survived.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_(card_game)

Also (and this is how I discovered it)
https://archive.org/details/msdos_Nuclear_War_1989

Which is a 'modernized' (for 1989) computer version of the game. We
had quite fun playing this one too, although four people crowded
around a tiny 12" screen doesn't seem all that much fun nowadays ;-)

Conceptually, the two games ("Nuclear War" and "Defcon" were very
similar, but the tone was very different. It resulted in completely
different play-styles. We tried to WIN when playing "Nuclear War";
with "Defcon", there was a nihilistic understanding that victory
wasn't really possible, so we just rushed to the earth-shattering
ba-booms as fast as we could.

And now I'm stuck wondering which was the more mature outlook of the
two ;-)

On 1/7/2025 7:32 PM, Justisaur wrote:
> On 1/2/2025 11:11 AM, JAB wrote:
>> Well something popped up on my feed about this recently and I thought
>> yeh it's horrific. So the basic game, almost twenty years old now, is
>> all out nuclear war but what takes it above that, at least for me, is
>> the way it's presented. It is a strategy game but everything is quite
>> abstract and minimalist from its Wargames (the film) graphics, to its
>> haunting sounds and basic units of fighters, bombers, aircraft
>> carriers, destroyers, battleships, radar units, SAM sites, airfields
>> and of course ICBM silos which can also serve to shot down incoming
>> nukes. No research, no resource gathering just you all get the same
>> units to deploy as you wish.
>
> Sounds almost like an expanded version of the 1965 card game Nuclear
> War.  We used to play that back in the 80's on occasion.  Typically
> everyone is wiped out and loses, but I remember one time someone survived.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_(card_game)
>
I used to play that. Pretty sure I still have the cards, somewhere.
Things get... strange when you have 3 decks of the original and two of
each of the expansions all together.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 08/01/2025 15:40, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> Conceptually, the two games ("Nuclear War" and "Defcon" were very
> similar, but the tone was very different. It resulted in completely
> different play-styles. We tried to WIN when playing "Nuclear War";
> with "Defcon", there was a nihilistic understanding that victory
> wasn't really possible, so we just rushed to the earth-shattering
> ba-booms as fast as we could.

Well as someone I knew who served in British Army of the Rhine (BAOR)
once told me. When he asked his commanding officer what their role was,
was told you've got two days before you're no longer a fighting force
and after that the calvary will have hopefully arrived or more likely
the nukes will have started flying.

Then again that was better than the Berlin Brigade that were described
as a speed hump.

Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
....
> >> Currently rewatching Eureka.
> >
> >I never saw that one.

> Excellent series, as is Chuck, both 5 seasons.

Chuck was rad. Love its Buy More parts. It's funny see the products too espcially from my former employer's.
--
"The Lord is good to those whose hope is in him, to the one who seeks him; it is good to wait quietly for the salvation of the Lord." --Lamentations 3:25. Crappy Tuesday due to out(& r)ages, still sick with >1 wk. old Norovirus, etc. :(
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