Hi,

Getting emails from Fanatical, GOG, and a couple of others pushing
Warhammer games.

I heard a commentator on a news show saying her kid can't stop playing
Dark Tide. Sounds tempting so I looked it up. It is a Warhammer game
and it got medicore reviews. In fact, all of them (and there is like
60 of them according to PC Gamer
https://www.pcgamer.com/best-warhammer-40k-games/) get mediocre
reveiws.

What kind of game is this. I had no idea this game series has been
out so long.

Does anyone here play Warhammer?

-pw

On 5/25/2024 10:28 AM, PW wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Getting emails from Fanatical, GOG, and a couple of others pushing
> Warhammer games.
>
> I heard a commentator on a news show saying her kid can't stop playing
> Dark Tide. Sounds tempting so I looked it up. It is a Warhammer game
> and it got medicore reviews. In fact, all of them (and there is like
> 60 of them according to PC Gamer
> https://www.pcgamer.com/best-warhammer-40k-games/) get mediocre
> reveiws.
>
> What kind of game is this. I had no idea this game series has been
> out so long.
>
> Does anyone here play Warhammer?
>
It started as (and as far as I know still is) a tabletop miniatures
wargame way back when, which may or may not explain how the computer
games got such a following so quickly. But might explain the
willingness to spend more and more money on more and more
miniatures/DLCs....

And no, I haven't played Warhammer in any incarnation.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 5/25/2024 10:28 AM, PW wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Getting emails from Fanatical, GOG, and a couple of others pushing
> > Warhammer games.
> >
> > I heard a commentator on a news show saying her kid can't stop playing
> > Dark Tide. Sounds tempting so I looked it up. It is a Warhammer game
> > and it got medicore reviews. In fact, all of them (and there is like
> > 60 of them according to PC Gamer
> > https://www.pcgamer.com/best-warhammer-40k-games/) get mediocre
> > reveiws.
> >
> > What kind of game is this. I had no idea this game series has been
> > out so long.
> >
> > Does anyone here play Warhammer?
> >
> It started as (and as far as I know still is) a tabletop miniatures
> wargame way back when, which may or may not explain how the computer
> games got such a following so quickly. But might explain the
> willingness to spend more and more money on more and more
> miniatures/DLCs....

> And no, I haven't played Warhammer in any incarnation.

I briefly played one or two, but couldn't get into this series. :(
--
"I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live." --John 5:25. 2 much pees & poos again. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On Sat, 25 May 2024 18:39:37 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 5/25/2024 10:28 AM, PW wrote:

>> > Getting emails from Fanatical, GOG, and a couple of others pushing
>> > Warhammer games.

>> > I heard a commentator on a news show saying her kid can't stop playing
>> > Dark Tide. Sounds tempting so I looked it up. It is a Warhammer game
>> > and it got medicore reviews. In fact, all of them (and there is like
>> > 60 of them according to PC Gamer
>> > https://www.pcgamer.com/best-warhammer-40k-games/) get mediocre
>> > reveiws.
>> > What kind of game is this. I had no idea this game series has been
>> > out so long.

>> > Does anyone here play Warhammer?

>> It started as (and as far as I know still is) a tabletop miniatures
>> wargame way back when, which may or may not explain how the computer
>> games got such a following so quickly. But might explain the
>> willingness to spend more and more money on more and more
>> miniatures/DLCs....

>> And no, I haven't played Warhammer in any incarnation.

>I briefly played one or two, but couldn't get into this series. :(

Well, there's always Hero Quest; you could try that. I hear it's
great.* It's a Warhammer spin-off (or, more technically, Warhammer is
a spin-off of Hero Quest, since HQ came first ;-)

The reason it is showing up in emails, etc. is that Games Workshop
(the owners of the license) are running a promotion for all their
digital products. Both Steam and GOG (and perhaps other storefronts,
but I'm not bothering to check on any of those) have a "Skulls
Festival of Video Game" where the Warhammer games are on sale. So the
various storefronts are spamming all their members telling everybody
about the 'great' deals now available.

And why the sale? Because the IP holders, Games Workshop, subscribe to
the 'razor blade' model of business. Sell the core product cheaply,
then make up for it by selling the users lots of accessories. With the
tabletop games, that means that -in order to play the game- you need
not only buy the rulebooks, but hundreds of indidivual miniatures, all
that need to be painted using GW paints. With their digital products,
it's sell the core game cheaply, but each game only focuses on a tiny
portion of the franchise, and there are dozens of DLCs and cosmetics
for each game.

In either case, the money doesn't really start rolling in until you
get the players to first buy the core product. Only then can you start
milking them with the expansions.

Oh, and once you've finally released all the expansions you can for a
game? Declare it obsolete and release the next edition!

Can you tell that I'm not a fan of Games Workshop? It's not that I
dislike their games -although the whole 'everything is so grim and
dark' thing is pretty old hat because GW hasn't had a new idea in 30
years!- but their business model is just slimey. That they've also
tried to claim ownership over the concept of the space marine, and
their hard-line stance against fan-created works doesn't make me any
more fond of the company.

That said, their games -both tabletop and digital- aren't too bad.
They aren't really great either, but they've a unique atmosphere and
setting. The company's (and fans') stance on how the game MUST be
played ("you space marines are painted the wrong color of blue, it's
not canon, you can't use those in the game!") is a bit annoying. It's
also /really/ expensive to get into. But -back in the day, before GW's
greed became central to its existence- I had a small army and we
played a few games. It was okay. It's mostly a miniature wargame,
though, and - being more of a tabletop role-playing game fan- I knew
it wasn't really a game for me. But I got some nice miniuatures out of
the experience that would later feature in a number of my tabletop D&D
campaigns. ;-)

But "Hero Quest" is great.

--------------
* Really, you know the whole point of this post was just so I could
link to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx8sl2uC46A

On 25/05/2024 20:10, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> Well, there's always Hero Quest; you could try that. I hear it's
> great.* It's a Warhammer spin-off (or, more technically, Warhammer is
> a spin-off of Hero Quest, since HQ came first 😉

As far as I know Warhammer Fantasy Battle was already on its third
edition by the time Hero Quest was released and even WH:40K was already
out.

On Sat, 25 May 2024 15:10:57 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 25 May 2024 18:39:37 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>>Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> On 5/25/2024 10:28 AM, PW wrote:
>
>>> > Getting emails from Fanatical, GOG, and a couple of others pushing
>>> > Warhammer games.
>
>>> > I heard a commentator on a news show saying her kid can't stop playing
>>> > Dark Tide. Sounds tempting so I looked it up. It is a Warhammer game
>>> > and it got medicore reviews. In fact, all of them (and there is like
>>> > 60 of them according to PC Gamer
>>> > https://www.pcgamer.com/best-warhammer-40k-games/) get mediocre
>>> > reveiws.
>>> > What kind of game is this. I had no idea this game series has been
>>> > out so long.
>
>>> > Does anyone here play Warhammer?
>
>>> It started as (and as far as I know still is) a tabletop miniatures
>>> wargame way back when, which may or may not explain how the computer
>>> games got such a following so quickly. But might explain the
>>> willingness to spend more and more money on more and more
>>> miniatures/DLCs....
>
>>> And no, I haven't played Warhammer in any incarnation.
>
>>I briefly played one or two, but couldn't get into this series. :(
>
>Well, there's always Hero Quest; you could try that. I hear it's
>great.* It's a Warhammer spin-off (or, more technically, Warhammer is
>a spin-off of Hero Quest, since HQ came first ;-)
>
>The reason it is showing up in emails, etc. is that Games Workshop
>(the owners of the license) are running a promotion for all their
>digital products. Both Steam and GOG (and perhaps other storefronts,
>but I'm not bothering to check on any of those) have a "Skulls
>Festival of Video Game" where the Warhammer games are on sale. So the
>various storefronts are spamming all their members telling everybody
>about the 'great' deals now available.
>
>And why the sale? Because the IP holders, Games Workshop, subscribe to
>the 'razor blade' model of business. Sell the core product cheaply,
>then make up for it by selling the users lots of accessories. With the
>tabletop games, that means that -in order to play the game- you need
>not only buy the rulebooks, but hundreds of indidivual miniatures, all
>that need to be painted using GW paints. With their digital products,
>it's sell the core game cheaply, but each game only focuses on a tiny
>portion of the franchise, and there are dozens of DLCs and cosmetics
>for each game.
>
>In either case, the money doesn't really start rolling in until you
>get the players to first buy the core product. Only then can you start
>milking them with the expansions.
>
>Oh, and once you've finally released all the expansions you can for a
>game? Declare it obsolete and release the next edition!
>
>Can you tell that I'm not a fan of Games Workshop? It's not that I
>dislike their games -although the whole 'everything is so grim and
>dark' thing is pretty old hat because GW hasn't had a new idea in 30
>years!- but their business model is just slimey. That they've also
>tried to claim ownership over the concept of the space marine, and
>their hard-line stance against fan-created works doesn't make me any
>more fond of the company.
>
>That said, their games -both tabletop and digital- aren't too bad.
>They aren't really great either, but they've a unique atmosphere and
>setting. The company's (and fans') stance on how the game MUST be
>played ("you space marines are painted the wrong color of blue, it's
>not canon, you can't use those in the game!") is a bit annoying. It's
>also /really/ expensive to get into. But -back in the day, before GW's
>greed became central to its existence- I had a small army and we
>played a few games. It was okay. It's mostly a miniature wargame,
>though, and - being more of a tabletop role-playing game fan- I knew
>it wasn't really a game for me. But I got some nice miniuatures out of
>the experience that would later feature in a number of my tabletop D&D
>campaigns. ;-)
>
>But "Hero Quest" is great.
>

*---

Interesting, but not for me!

Thanks

On Sat, 25 May 2024 21:39:51 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>On 25/05/2024 20:10, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> Well, there's always Hero Quest; you could try that. I hear it's
>> great.* It's a Warhammer spin-off (or, more technically, Warhammer is
>> a spin-off of Hero Quest, since HQ came first ?
>
>As far as I know Warhammer Fantasy Battle was already on its third
>edition by the time Hero Quest was released and even WH:40K was already
>out.

You... are correct. Apparently I was misinformed as to the timeline.

WFB came out in 1983.
HQ released in 1989.

PW <iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote at 17:28 this Saturday (GMT):
> Hi,
>
> Getting emails from Fanatical, GOG, and a couple of others pushing
> Warhammer games.
>
> I heard a commentator on a news show saying her kid can't stop playing
> Dark Tide. Sounds tempting so I looked it up. It is a Warhammer game
> and it got medicore reviews. In fact, all of them (and there is like
> 60 of them according to PC Gamer
> https://www.pcgamer.com/best-warhammer-40k-games/) get mediocre
> reveiws.
>
> What kind of game is this. I had no idea this game series has been
> out so long.
>
> Does anyone here play Warhammer?
>
> -pw

I don't, but I know a few people who do.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Sun, 26 May 2024 23:35:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07
<candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:
>PW <iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote at 17:28 this Saturday (GMT):

>> Does anyone here play Warhammer?

>I don't, but I know a few people who do.

It always seemed a hobby more popular on one side of the pond than the
other. I don't know if that's because Games Workshop (and Warhammer)
are British, or if it's just that playing with little army men is
generally more accepted in the UK than the US (I suspect the latter,
actually). But board-game wargames seemed to be the more popular in
America, whereas miniature games seemed to have the edge in England.

But there are fans on both side, and they're easy enough to find, if
you know what to look for (just look for the gamer with the slightly
haughty look on their face in the game shoppe ;-)

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 13:53 this Monday (GMT):
> On Sun, 26 May 2024 23:35:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07
><candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:
>>PW <iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote at 17:28 this Saturday (GMT):
>
>>> Does anyone here play Warhammer?
>
>>I don't, but I know a few people who do.
>
> It always seemed a hobby more popular on one side of the pond than the
> other. I don't know if that's because Games Workshop (and Warhammer)
> are British, or if it's just that playing with little army men is
> generally more accepted in the UK than the US (I suspect the latter,
> actually). But board-game wargames seemed to be the more popular in
> America, whereas miniature games seemed to have the edge in England.
>
> But there are fans on both side, and they're easy enough to find, if
> you know what to look for (just look for the gamer with the slightly
> haughty look on their face in the game shoppe ;-)

Huh.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 5/27/2024 6:53 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sun, 26 May 2024 23:35:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07
> <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:
>> PW <iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote at 17:28 this Saturday (GMT):
>
>>> Does anyone here play Warhammer?
>
>> I don't, but I know a few people who do.
>
> It always seemed a hobby more popular on one side of the pond than the
> other. I don't know if that's because Games Workshop (and Warhammer)
> are British, or if it's just that playing with little army men is
> generally more accepted in the UK than the US (I suspect the latter,
> actually). But board-game wargames seemed to be the more popular in
> America, whereas miniature games seemed to have the edge in England.
>
> But there are fans on both side, and they're easy enough to find, if
> you know what to look for (just look for the gamer with the slightly
> haughty look on their face in the game shoppe ;-)
>
Isn't that basically every gamer?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 5/25/2024 10:28 AM, PW wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Getting emails from Fanatical, GOG, and a couple of others pushing
> Warhammer games.
>
> I heard a commentator on a news show saying her kid can't stop playing
> Dark Tide. Sounds tempting so I looked it up. It is a Warhammer game
> and it got medicore reviews. In fact, all of them (and there is like
> 60 of them according to PC Gamer
> https://www.pcgamer.com/best-warhammer-40k-games/) get mediocre
> reveiws.
>
> What kind of game is this. I had no idea this game series has been
> out so long.
>
> Does anyone here play Warhammer?

I've seen the tabletop wargame played, but was never interested in
wargames. It seems to require a certain mindset I don't have. I don't
know that I'd want to run warhammer fantasy roleplaying, but I'd give it
a try if I happened to come across a tabletop live game.

Of the computer games I've tried a few, the only ones I've liked so far:

Vermintide 2 - which is a squad/mission based online FPS mideval game.
It gets far too grindy and repetitive after awhile, but was fun for a
bit. It can be played solo with your own character/bots for the other
teammates, but that's difficult to start with and it isn't available
offline.

Dawn of War - RTS.

They're good, but not great. Dawn of War might be near the top of RTSs
I've played, and Vermintide might be near the top of squad games, but
the only other one's I've played that might even qualify as that are
Deep Rock Galactic which didn't grab me and Warframe which so beyond
Vermintide, I'd struggle to compare them.

They've got interesting/funny lore. Like orks being fungus people that
live just to kill things so their fungus can grow on the corpses.
British humor.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On Tue, 28 May 2024 08:50:39 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 5/25/2024 10:28 AM, PW wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Getting emails from Fanatical, GOG, and a couple of others pushing
>> Warhammer games.
>>
>> I heard a commentator on a news show saying her kid can't stop playing
>> Dark Tide. Sounds tempting so I looked it up. It is a Warhammer game
>> and it got medicore reviews. In fact, all of them (and there is like
>> 60 of them according to PC Gamer
>> https://www.pcgamer.com/best-warhammer-40k-games/) get mediocre
>> reveiws.
>>
>> What kind of game is this. I had no idea this game series has been
>> out so long.
>>
>> Does anyone here play Warhammer?
>
>I've seen the tabletop wargame played, but was never interested in
>wargames. It seems to require a certain mindset I don't have. I don't
>know that I'd want to run warhammer fantasy roleplaying, but I'd give it
>a try if I happened to come across a tabletop live game.
>
>Of the computer games I've tried a few, the only ones I've liked so far:
>
>Vermintide 2 - which is a squad/mission based online FPS mideval game.
>It gets far too grindy and repetitive after awhile, but was fun for a
>bit. It can be played solo with your own character/bots for the other
>teammates, but that's difficult to start with and it isn't available
>offline.
>
>Dawn of War - RTS.
>
>They're good, but not great. Dawn of War might be near the top of RTSs
>I've played, and Vermintide might be near the top of squad games, but
>the only other one's I've played that might even qualify as that are
>Deep Rock Galactic which didn't grab me and Warframe which so beyond
>Vermintide, I'd struggle to compare them.

Yeah, the "Dawn of War" games were fun, and I think I'd rank them near
the top of all the Warhammer games I've played. Then again, there's a
huge number of Warhammer video games I haven't played, so take that
ranking with a grain of salt. The first game was -at least for me- the
most enjoyable of the series, even though mechanically it was the
least polished. But with "Dawn of War II" rolled around, I was getting
bored of the series, since the original game had already received
three expansions. And by the time "Dawn of War III" appeared, I'd lost
pretty much all interest.

Still, I'd agree the series were some of the better RTS games
available. But they were released in an era when the genre had pretty
much solved all the major mechanical issues, and could focus on
novelty and fun. I've fond memories of playing stuff like "Company of
Heroes" and the "Battle for Middle Earth" strategy games, which were
contemporary to the "Dawn of War" games. I certainly had more fun with
those than I did with the more famous examples of the genre: games
like "Warcraft", "Starcraft" and "Command and Conquer III".

>They've got interesting/funny lore. Like orks being fungus people that
>live just to kill things so their fungus can grow on the corpses.
>British humor.

"Dawn of War" was released on the cusp of when Games Workshop
doubled-down on the grimdark setting of the franchise and lost all
their sense of humor. In fact, I think some of the reason for GW's
insistence that everything had to be so dark and edgy and not at all
fun was because they were embarrassed by all the memes created from
the over-the-top, extremely hammy voice-acting in the "Dawn of War"
games. ;-)

On 25/05/2024 20:10, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> And why the sale? Because the IP holders, Games Workshop, subscribe to
> the 'razor blade' model of business. Sell the core product cheaply,
> then make up for it by selling the users lots of accessories. With the
> tabletop games, that means that -in order to play the game- you need
> not only buy the rulebooks, but hundreds of indidivual miniatures, all
> that need to be painted using GW paints. With their digital products,
> it's sell the core game cheaply, but each game only focuses on a tiny
> portion of the franchise, and there are dozens of DLCs and cosmetics
> for each game.

For TT games I think it makes sense as you are talking about physical
products so if you only want to buy enough to get you up and started
with an army. GW have even recognises the entry cost barrier so also
have Kill Team which is a squad based skirmish game. Things like paints
and other accessories, well you can get them wherever you want and if
you really like the game 3D printers are now affordable. It's still not
a cheap hobby overall mind you.

Now that doesn't mean that GW don't do some shitty things with removing
whole armies or introducing a new army that means an existing one is
effectively obsolete. Then again, if you're just playing socially then
it doesn't really matter so much.

Where it seems to go tragically wrong is when the apply the same type of
model to digital products and it just comes across as unreasonable.
Blood Bowl 3 got rightly panned as not only was a lot of the content
that was available in previous games not in the basegame they had also
added aggressive MTX.