On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 04:13:59 -0400, Paul wrote:

> On Tue, 8/13/2024 11:29 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> NTFS is showing its age in some ways, though.
>>
> What way would that be ?

Still insists on keeping open files locked, for one thing.

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:42:02 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 8/13/24 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 01:31:15 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> ANYway ... the most common subthread here is whether Access is still
>>> worth it.
>>
>> Given that LibreOffice does it all, and is available for less cost and
>> with fewer restrictions, the answer has to be no
>
> I'll have to get further into it ... but meanwhile I will not just
> assume "LibreOffice Does It All".

NO need to assume, just look at the actual database features available.

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:52:18 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 8/13/24 11:36 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 02:50:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/06/09/0793-an-offer-you-cant-refuse-ww/
>>
>> What’s hilarious about that is it takes much longer than an hour for
>> Windows to update itself
>> <https://tech.slashdot.org/story/22/02/01/2056211>.
>
> Try a "rollling release" Linux like TumbleWeed or Manjaro :-)

Still only takes a tiny fraction of the time.

I know, I run Debian Unstable.

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux ...

But it is Microsoft that is desperately trying to turn Windows into Linux,
not the other way round. The market leader does not have to pay attention
to the market followers, it is they who must be compatible with the market
leader.

It is Microsoft trying very hard to make Windows more compatible with
Linux.

On 13/08/2024 23:21, John Dallman wrote:
> In article <v9gk4h$30as$2@dont-email.me>, ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence
> D'Oliveiro) wrote:
>
>> Mount points only work on NTFS volumes, though. So you cannot use
>> them to mix and match other filesystem types, the way you can on
>> Linux.
>
> There is a shortage of other filesystem types in practical usage on
> Windows. FAT and exFAT get used for (micro-)sd cards and USB sticks, but
> nobody with any sense at all uses them on hard disks or SSDs.
>
> John
<technical nitpick> Sometimes (Raspberry Pi) that's all the hardware
will boot off...

--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

On Wed, 8/14/2024 4:48 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 04:13:59 -0400, Paul wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 8/13/2024 11:29 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> NTFS is showing its age in some ways, though.
>>>
>> What way would that be ?
>
> Still insists on keeping open files locked, for one thing.
>

Haven't seen that in a while.

We used to have that problem at work, at the startup I worked at.
The business had a very fancy backup system (backs up
files every ten minutes, dedups them, you can walk
back in time to get a copy of anything). There
are a couple kinds of locks, and it would tell
me "your file is locked by Paul". Yeah, and as
Paul, I happen to know the file is not open right now,
but that did not matter. The server concluded it
was still open.

I haven't seen one of those in twenty years. I don't know what
the root cause is exactly, so I cannot predict what your
statistics will be like. I suspect being in a domain
and using roaming, is part of the scenario.

Paul

On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux ...
>
> But it is Microsoft that is desperately trying to turn Windows into Linux,
> not the other way round. The market leader does not have to pay attention
> to the market followers, it is they who must be compatible with the market
> leader.
>
> It is Microsoft trying very hard to make Windows more compatible with
> Linux.

"Embrace, extend, extinguish."

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as the
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | first society that wouldn't save
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | itself because it wasn't cost-
/ \ if you read it the right way. | effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

On 2024-08-14, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 8/14/2024 4:48 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 04:13:59 -0400, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 8/13/2024 11:29 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> NTFS is showing its age in some ways, though.
>>>
>>> What way would that be ?
>>
>> Still insists on keeping open files locked, for one thing.
>
> Haven't seen that in a while.
>
> We used to have that problem at work, at the startup I worked at.
> The business had a very fancy backup system (backs up
> files every ten minutes, dedups them, you can walk
> back in time to get a copy of anything). There
> are a couple kinds of locks, and it would tell
> me "your file is locked by Paul". Yeah, and as
> Paul, I happen to know the file is not open right now,
> but that did not matter. The server concluded it
> was still open.
>
> I haven't seen one of those in twenty years. I don't know what
> the root cause is exactly, so I cannot predict what your
> statistics will be like. I suspect being in a domain
> and using roaming, is part of the scenario.

To this day I curse Windows' obsession with keeping exclusive
locks on files, even if they're only being read. The practice
is alive and well.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as the
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | first society that wouldn't save
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | itself because it wasn't cost-
/ \ if you read it the right way. | effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 16:52:29 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux ...
>>
>> But it is Microsoft that is desperately trying to turn Windows into
>> Linux, not the other way round. The market leader does not have to pay
>> attention to the market followers, it is they who must be compatible
>> with the market leader.
>>
>> It is Microsoft trying very hard to make Windows more compatible with
>> Linux.
>
> "Embrace, extend, extinguish."

Microsoft tried “extinguish” first. Remember “Linux is a cancer”? Remember
their claim that Linux infringed 200 of their patents? (Of course they
would never say which ones.) All their FUD nonsense, like their notorious
“Get The Facts” campaign?

It was all for naught. They threw all the weaponry (economic, legal, PR)
they had at their command at Linux, and failed to knock it off.
“Extinguish” was a failure. And now Microsoft is no longer the undisputed
market leader, it is playing catch-up to Linux.

On 8/14/2024 4:37 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 16:52:29 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux ...
>>>
>>> But it is Microsoft that is desperately trying to turn Windows into
>>> Linux, not the other way round. The market leader does not have to pay
>>> attention to the market followers, it is they who must be compatible
>>> with the market leader.
>>>
>>> It is Microsoft trying very hard to make Windows more compatible with
>>> Linux.
>>
>> "Embrace, extend, extinguish."
>
> Microsoft tried “extinguish” first. Remember “Linux is a cancer”? Remember
> their claim that Linux infringed 200 of their patents? (Of course they
> would never say which ones.) All their FUD nonsense, like their notorious
> “Get The Facts” campaign?
>
> It was all for naught. They threw all the weaponry (economic, legal, PR)
> they had at their command at Linux, and failed to knock it off.
> “Extinguish” was a failure. And now Microsoft is no longer the undisputed
> market leader, it is playing catch-up to Linux.

ROFLMAO!

--
Stand With Israel!

On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 16:52:29 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux ...
>>>
>>> But it is Microsoft that is desperately trying to turn Windows into
>>> Linux, not the other way round. The market leader does not have to pay
>>> attention to the market followers, it is they who must be compatible
>>> with the market leader.
>>>
>>> It is Microsoft trying very hard to make Windows more compatible with
>>> Linux.
>>
>> "Embrace, extend, extinguish."
>
> Microsoft tried “extinguish” first. Remember “Linux is a cancer”? Remember
> their claim that Linux infringed 200 of their patents? (Of course they
> would never say which ones.) All their FUD nonsense, like their notorious
> “Get The Facts” campaign?

Don't forget the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) campaign. They dropped
that one pretty quickly when people came up with real-world statistics
that thoroughly disproved their claims.

> It was all for naught. They threw all the weaponry (economic, legal, PR)
> they had at their command at Linux, and failed to knock it off.
> “Extinguish” was a failure. And now Microsoft is no longer the undisputed
> market leader, it is playing catch-up to Linux.

Linux is doing well in the server world, but the desktop will be a
much harder sell. They're indoctrinating elementary-school students,
fer cryin' out loud.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as the
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | first society that wouldn't save
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | itself because it wasn't cost-
/ \ if you read it the right way. | effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
wrote in <MZOdnWbqhIRz_CH7nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>:

> On 8/13/24 10:50 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2024-08-14, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Oops, lost my response. Let's try again...
>>
>>> On 2024-08-13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 01:51:25 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Note that a lot of companies - mostly as a result of having dumped
>>>>> most of their IT people in favor of 'cloud' and 3rd-party management
>>>>> - have a "M$ ONLY" policy.
>>>>
>>>> That would be “a diminishing number of companies”. Those that
>>>> deliberately cripple their own competitiveness by restricting their
>>>> technological choices are more likely to come a cropper in the
>>>> marketplace. Either they go out of business, or they get acquired by
>>>> some more successful company.
>>>>
>>>> Either way, the legacy Microsoft technologies gradually get phased
>>>> out of the economic gene pool.
>>
>> Sounds like it's time for the re-education squad to pay a few visits.
>>
>> https://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/06/09/0793-an-offer-you-cant-refuse-
ww/
>
> M$, and it's lawyers & suckers, have entirely different ideas - they
> WILL press, hard, for M$ dominance.
>
> Technical superiority won't COUNT in most situations. M$ is - by
> effort/propaganda - THE de-facto standard. Doesn't matter how much it
> sucks.
>
> This is the REALITY.
>
> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux - so we'd better have a good
> REPLACEMENT. Just sayin'

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is a
Linux subsystem in Windows now.

Which is reasonable, considering that Linux dominates
everywhere else _except_ the (shrinking) desktop market.

"Can't we all just get along?"

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0-rc2 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G

On Thu, 8/15/2024 12:24 AM, vallor wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
> wrote in <MZOdnWbqhIRz_CH7nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>:
>
>> On 8/13/24 10:50 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2024-08-14, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oops, lost my response. Let's try again...
>>>
>>>> On 2024-08-13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 01:51:25 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that a lot of companies - mostly as a result of having dumped
>>>>>> most of their IT people in favor of 'cloud' and 3rd-party management
>>>>>> - have a "M$ ONLY" policy.
>>>>>
>>>>> That would be “a diminishing number of companies”. Those that
>>>>> deliberately cripple their own competitiveness by restricting their
>>>>> technological choices are more likely to come a cropper in the
>>>>> marketplace. Either they go out of business, or they get acquired by
>>>>> some more successful company.
>>>>>
>>>>> Either way, the legacy Microsoft technologies gradually get phased
>>>>> out of the economic gene pool.
>>>
>>> Sounds like it's time for the re-education squad to pay a few visits.
>>>
>>> https://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/06/09/0793-an-offer-you-cant-refuse-
> ww/
>>
>> M$, and it's lawyers & suckers, have entirely different ideas - they
>> WILL press, hard, for M$ dominance.
>>
>> Technical superiority won't COUNT in most situations. M$ is - by
>> effort/propaganda - THE de-facto standard. Doesn't matter how much it
>> sucks.
>>
>> This is the REALITY.
>>
>> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux - so we'd better have a good
>> REPLACEMENT. Just sayin'
>
> Hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is a
> Linux subsystem in Windows now.
>
> Which is reasonable, considering that Linux dominates
> everywhere else _except_ the (shrinking) desktop market.
>
> "Can't we all just get along?"
>

And that's just it really.

Nobody in the C Suite, considers desktops to be worth chasing.
We'll do every thing with Cellphones. Need to compress 4TB of
files ? Your cellphone will do it. Need to run engineering software ?
Your cellphone will do it.

Since WSA was canceled, and WSL is still running (for now),
it was an "experiment to measure something". For Android, there
was no attachment. Initially WSL had no graphics, and the "cover story"
was that it was for "Azure users preparing images or something".
I used to run a separate X11 server back when there was no WSLg.
Now there is a WSLg. My most frequently run GUI application in
WSLg, is Linux Firefox. So I can manage more than one version of
Firefox, for various purposes. Presumably, my activities are being
measured (because there is a custom icon for Linux activity on TaskBar).

Microsoft initially had an "ecosystem play" with Windows 10. It
was supposed to "organize all your devices", like your <cough> Windows Phone.
Since that didn't seem to have the desired attach rate (and consequent
buy-into the Cloud), they have sought to build an ecosystem out
of "whatever shit sticks to". Take an item, build interconnect to it,
see what sticks. That to some extent, is what the experiments are about.

The reason Microsoft put ten billion into AI, is they have visions
of sugarplums, by renting tokens for a Cloud AI. And you can run up
a monthly billing, by having someone read Dad Jokes to you.
"That's where the real money is." It's in the same category as
Full Self Driving and Nuclear Fusion Power.

They're not building an OS, they're constructing Rental Accommodation.

They would be equally happy with 3 people paying $10000 a month,
as they would having 10000 people paying $3 per month. Success isn't
measured in head count, it is measured in dollars. They don't mind
if a few customers fall off the back of the cart.

And they usually make money, off every OEM PC sold. It does not matter
what the people do with the OEM PC when they get it.

Paul

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 10:09:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 13/08/2024 23:21, John Dallman wrote:
>
>> In article <v9gk4h$30as$2@dont-email.me>, ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence
>> D'Oliveiro) wrote:
>>
>>> Mount points only work on NTFS volumes, though. So you cannot use them
>>> to mix and match other filesystem types, the way you can on Linux.
>>
>> There is a shortage of other filesystem types in practical usage on
>> Windows. FAT and exFAT get used for (micro-)sd cards and USB sticks,
>> but nobody with any sense at all uses them on hard disks or SSDs.
>>
> <technical nitpick> Sometimes (Raspberry Pi) that's all the hardware
> will boot off...

The Raspberry Pi runs Linux. That should be able to boot off any kind of
filesystem that Linux supports.

On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 00:30:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> Linux is doing well in the server world, but the desktop will be a much
> harder sell.

What I think is happening is the definition of “desktop” is actually
shrinking as Linux gobbles up the entire rest of the computing market.

For example, the Linux-based Steam Deck is making inroads in handheld
gaming, where the Windows-based competitors are struggling to follow.

On 2024-08-16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 10:09:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 13/08/2024 23:21, John Dallman wrote:
>>
>>> In article <v9gk4h$30as$2@dont-email.me>, ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence
>>> D'Oliveiro) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mount points only work on NTFS volumes, though. So you cannot use them
>>>> to mix and match other filesystem types, the way you can on Linux.
>>>
>>> There is a shortage of other filesystem types in practical usage on
>>> Windows. FAT and exFAT get used for (micro-)sd cards and USB sticks,
>>> but nobody with any sense at all uses them on hard disks or SSDs.
>>>
>> <technical nitpick> Sometimes (Raspberry Pi) that's all the hardware
>> will boot off...
>
> The Raspberry Pi runs Linux. That should be able to boot off any kind of
> filesystem that Linux supports.

Maybe things are different in UEFI platforms, but, at least from what
I've seen through the years, Linux is able to get a system operational
using filesystems that Linux supports.

Loading and booting Linux itself is an entirely different matter,
something has to read, load and execute the binary. It's entirely
possible that the hardware - or its firmware - can only do this if the
Linux binary is in FAT or exFAT.

--
Nuno Silva

On 16/08/2024 09:11, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2024-08-16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 10:09:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/08/2024 23:21, John Dallman wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <v9gk4h$30as$2@dont-email.me>, ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence
>>>> D'Oliveiro) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mount points only work on NTFS volumes, though. So you cannot use them
>>>>> to mix and match other filesystem types, the way you can on Linux.
>>>>
>>>> There is a shortage of other filesystem types in practical usage on
>>>> Windows. FAT and exFAT get used for (micro-)sd cards and USB sticks,
>>>> but nobody with any sense at all uses them on hard disks or SSDs.
>>>>
>>> <technical nitpick> Sometimes (Raspberry Pi) that's all the hardware
>>> will boot off...
>>
>> The Raspberry Pi runs Linux. That should be able to boot off any kind of
>> filesystem that Linux supports.
>
> Maybe things are different in UEFI platforms, but, at least from what
> I've seen through the years, Linux is able to get a system operational
> using filesystems that Linux supports.
>
> Loading and booting Linux itself is an entirely different matter,
> something has to read, load and execute the binary. It's entirely
> possible that the hardware - or its firmware - can only do this if the
> Linux binary is in FAT or exFAT.
>

Which is the case for a Pi. The GPU chipset that does the booting can
only understand (V?)FAT to load and run a [Linux image and its basic
configuration files]...
So you end up with a small FAT partition that is *only* used to boot,
and a larger EXT4 partition for everything else, typically. If booting
linux, anyway.

more /etc/fstab

PARTUUID=778a9e44-01 /boot/firmware vfat defaults 0 2
PARTUUID=778a9e44-02 / ext4 defaults,noatime
0 1

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 8/15/24 10:22 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 00:30:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> Linux is doing well in the server world, but the desktop will be a much
>> harder sell.
>
> What I think is happening is the definition of “desktop” is actually
> shrinking as Linux gobbles up the entire rest of the computing market.
>
> For example, the Linux-based Steam Deck is making inroads in handheld
> gaming, where the Windows-based competitors are struggling to follow.

Umm ... but consider the sheer VOLUME of M$ shit
in use out there - from Granny to giant biz. It's
why the CrowdStrike and the next weeks update
debacles were SO damaging.

Go to a tech store or buy online ... everything COMES
with Winders. You actually have to pay EXTRA to get
Linux or just no OS. Of late I've bought a few cheap
BMax and BeeLink micro-boxes - low-end laptop chips -
they COME with Winders. As a matter of pride I've
had to make sure M$ didn't run for one microsecond ...

But - without Winders license - it'd probably knock
thirty or forty bucks off the price easy. Why don't
they sell THOSE ?

On 8/15/24 12:24 AM, vallor wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
> wrote in <MZOdnWbqhIRz_CH7nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>:
>
>> On 8/13/24 10:50 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2024-08-14, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oops, lost my response. Let's try again...
>>>
>>>> On 2024-08-13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 01:51:25 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that a lot of companies - mostly as a result of having dumped
>>>>>> most of their IT people in favor of 'cloud' and 3rd-party management
>>>>>> - have a "M$ ONLY" policy.
>>>>>
>>>>> That would be “a diminishing number of companies”. Those that
>>>>> deliberately cripple their own competitiveness by restricting their
>>>>> technological choices are more likely to come a cropper in the
>>>>> marketplace. Either they go out of business, or they get acquired by
>>>>> some more successful company.
>>>>>
>>>>> Either way, the legacy Microsoft technologies gradually get phased
>>>>> out of the economic gene pool.
>>>
>>> Sounds like it's time for the re-education squad to pay a few visits.
>>>
>>> https://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/06/09/0793-an-offer-you-cant-refuse-
> ww/
>>
>> M$, and it's lawyers & suckers, have entirely different ideas - they
>> WILL press, hard, for M$ dominance.
>>
>> Technical superiority won't COUNT in most situations. M$ is - by
>> effort/propaganda - THE de-facto standard. Doesn't matter how much it
>> sucks.
>>
>> This is the REALITY.
>>
>> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux - so we'd better have a good
>> REPLACEMENT. Just sayin'
>
> Hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is a
> Linux subsystem in Windows now.
>
> Which is reasonable, considering that Linux dominates
> everywhere else _except_ the (shrinking) desktop market.
>
> "Can't we all just get along?"

The M$ lawyers will make SURE we can't all get along ...

SO ... just sayin' ... time to get working on the Linux
replacement FAST - something the lawyers won't have a
handle on. Linus isn't so young anymore, when he goes
Linux will go to hell and then be GONE.

Hmmm ... a "based on" or something completely new ?

On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 00:22:20 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> The M$ lawyers will make SURE we can't all get along ...
>
> SO ... just sayin' ... time to get working on the Linux replacement
> FAST ...

They tried that already, and failed. Threw everything (legal, economic,
marketing FUD) at it, and Linux survived.

And now, Microsoft is tying its own destiny more and more to the well-
being of Linux. So it can no longer afford to be predatory as before,
anyway.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 00:14:02 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Umm ... but consider the sheer VOLUME of M$ shit in use out there ...

Not really. The entire Windows installed base is maybe a billion or so
machines.

Linux-based Android alone ships that number of devices every year.

On 8/14/24 4:49 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:42:02 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> On 8/13/24 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 01:31:15 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> ANYway ... the most common subthread here is whether Access is still
>>>> worth it.
>>>
>>> Given that LibreOffice does it all, and is available for less cost and
>>> with fewer restrictions, the answer has to be no
>>
>> I'll have to get further into it ... but meanwhile I will not just
>> assume "LibreOffice Does It All".
>
> NO need to assume, just look at the actual database features available.

I might - alas I'm retired now and generally
don't need databases ... so it might be a
little while. I recall the form-builder kinda
being disappeared somewhere early on and that's
when I decided to just stick with Access and
the "modern" SQL/Java crap.

LOOKING for a semi-decent MULTI-VALUE DB that
doesn't involve license restrictions though.
I've loved MV since PICK-OS. Have tried to
write my own, but Mr. Pick apparently had a
lot more energy/focus than I have. Many of
those 50s/60s software engineers really earned
the title - GREAT stuff.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 23:30:24 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> LOOKING for a semi-decent MULTI-VALUE DB that doesn't involve license
> restrictions though. I've loved MV since PICK-OS. Have tried to write
> my own, but Mr. Pick apparently had a lot more energy/focus than I
> have. Many of those 50s/60s software engineers really earned the
> title - GREAT stuff.

ScarletDME? It's a GPL 2.0 fork of OpenQM.

On 8/18/24 12:48 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 23:30:24 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> LOOKING for a semi-decent MULTI-VALUE DB that doesn't involve license
>> restrictions though. I've loved MV since PICK-OS. Have tried to write
>> my own, but Mr. Pick apparently had a lot more energy/focus than I
>> have. Many of those 50s/60s software engineers really earned the
>> title - GREAT stuff.
>
> ScarletDME? It's a GPL 2.0 fork of OpenQM.

Thanks ! I'll take a look !!! Hadn't heard
of THAT one.

On 8/16/2024 9:14 PM, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>   But - without Winders license - it'd probably knock
>   thirty or forty bucks off the price easy. Why don't
>   they sell THOSE ?

I bet that MS is still doing what they did decades ago: The box builders
get a huge discount - say 75% - on the cost of their Windows licenses,
PROVIDED that they put Windows on ALL the boxes they sell.