As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a long
time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.

Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot
files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.

Even my compiled programs such as alpine, leafnode and possibly one or two
more, and my python invoicing application, could just be moved and worked
right away.

So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed to
do was to update my midnight commander config file, because apparently
someone in the project decided on a new config format between version 3
and version 4.

Impressive!

On 2024-12-23 22:21, D wrote:
> So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed to
> do was to update my midnight commander config file, because apparently
> someone in the project decided on a new config format between version 3
> and version 4.

Version 4 is old. I have 4.8.27, and my distribution is old.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux
> when the holiday starts.

Interesting, my yearly tradition is to do multiple full
system backup of my workstation and server this time a year.
Two for "off-site" and a couple for home :)

--
csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars

On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 22:04:35 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

> ... my yearly tradition is to do multiple full system backup of
> my workstation and server this time a year.

The only things I consider crucial to back up are my own work. I don’t
bother backing up OS installations, apart from the contents of /etc.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 22:04:35 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
>
>> ... my yearly tradition is to do multiple full system backup of
>> my workstation and server this time a year.
>
> The only things I consider crucial to back up are my own work. I don?t
> bother backing up OS installations, apart from the contents of /etc.

Yes, that is what I do, backup data, static data dirs with
various OS Config Dirs.

--
csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars

On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:23:43 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 22:04:35 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
>>
>>> ... my yearly tradition is to do multiple full system backup of my
>>> workstation and server this time a year.
>>
>> The only things I consider crucial to back up are my own work. I don?t
>> bother backing up OS installations, apart from the contents of /etc.
>
> Yes, that is what I do, backup data, static data dirs with various OS
> Config Dirs.

And here’s another tip: before modifying anything in /etc, I try to make a
backup copy with the suffix “-orig” attached. That way, it’s easy to find
all the places I’ve customized the config, with a simple command like

find /etc -iname \*-orig

On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:27:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vkcv50$1f4ve$2@dont-email.me>:

> On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:23:43 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 22:04:35 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... my yearly tradition is to do multiple full system backup of my
>>>> workstation and server this time a year.
>>>
>>> The only things I consider crucial to back up are my own work. I don?t
>>> bother backing up OS installations, apart from the contents of /etc.
>>
>> Yes, that is what I do, backup data, static data dirs with various OS
>> Config Dirs.
>
> And here’s another tip: before modifying anything in /etc, I try to make
> a backup copy with the suffix “-orig” attached. That way, it’s easy to
> find all the places I’ve customized the config, with a simple command
> like
>
> find /etc -iname \*-orig

Or you could:

# mkdir RCS
# ci -w(your username) -l -d (filename)

rcs, the revision control system, is lightweight and easy to handle. You
can diff your files with rcsdiff.

Beats keeping around "filename-orig", "filename.old",
"filename.notsoold", "filename.thisoneworkedbefore", etc.

(Or, you could use git, but that's overkill for /etc files...)

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.12.6 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"The cost of feathers has risen... Now even DOWN is up!"

On 24 Dec 2024 02:08:42 GMT, vallor wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:27:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vkcv50$1f4ve$2@dont-email.me>:
>
>> And here’s another tip: before modifying anything in /etc, I try to
>> make a backup copy with the suffix “-orig” attached. That way, it’s
>> easy to find all the places I’ve customized the config, with a simple
>> command like
>>
>> find /etc -iname \*-orig
>
> Or you could:
>
> # mkdir RCS ...

Some people use Git. Why be satisfied with half-measures?

On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 02:24:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vkd614$1gfpo$3@dont-email.me>:

> On 24 Dec 2024 02:08:42 GMT, vallor wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:27:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vkcv50$1f4ve$2@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> And here’s another tip: before modifying anything in /etc, I try to
>>> make a backup copy with the suffix “-orig” attached. That way, it’s
>>> easy to find all the places I’ve customized the config, with a simple
>>> command like
>>>
>>> find /etc -iname \*-orig
>>
>> Or you could:
>>
>> # mkdir RCS ...
>
> Some people use Git. Why be satisfied with half-measures?

You snipped out (as you are wont to do):

v] (Or, you could use git, but that's overkill for /etc files...)

rcs isn't a "half-measure" -- it's a simpler measure. But by all means,
use git:

1) cd /etc
2) git init
3) [...]
4) Profit!

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.12.6 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes."

On 24 Dec 2024 03:04:29 GMT, vallor wrote:

> rcs isn't a "half-measure" -- it's a simpler measure.

Simpler still is just copying files. Easier to find where changes have
been made.

On 12/23/24 4:21 PM, D wrote:
> As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
> holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a
> long time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
>
> Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot
> files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
>
> Even my compiled programs such as alpine, leafnode and possibly one or
> two more, and my python invoicing application, could just be moved and
> worked right away.
>
> So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed to
> do was to update my midnight commander config file, because apparently
> someone in the project decided on a new config format between version 3
> and version 4.
>
> Impressive!

What ? WHAT ??? An actual LINUX question ???!!! :-)

Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time
to jump up two or three whole distro versions. It's
only 'home use' now, so I'm not so worried about
Vlad and Xi.

Alas most of my stuff is Deb based, and WORM was
NOT encouraging - too 'Canonical' now. DO have
some Arch/Fedora based boxes though ... may just
go straight Fedora for awhile ........

DID love OpenSUSE - but now it's kinda trapped in
the IBM/RHEL vortex. Don't wanna be an unpaid
beta-tester for IBM.

vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> writes:
> rcs isn't a "half-measure" -- it's a simpler measure.

Obsolete three generations of software ago, more like.

> But by all means, use git:
>
> 1) cd /etc
> 2) git init
> 3) [...]
> 4) Profit!

https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/etckeeper is the common way to do
this in Debian and its derivatives; it automatically commits during
package installs/upgrades.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On Mon, 23 Dec 2024, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2024-12-23 22:21, D wrote:
>> So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed to do
>> was to update my midnight commander config file, because apparently someone
>> in the project decided on a new config format between version 3 and version
>> 4.
>
> Version 4 is old. I have 4.8.27, and my distribution is old.

Apologies, I should have been more clear. I have:

GNU Midnight Commander 4.8.30
Built with GLib 2.78.3
Built with S-Lang 2.3.1a with terminfo database
Built with libssh2 1.11.0
With builtin Editor
With subshell support as default
With support for background operations
With mouse support on xterm and Linux console
With support for X11 events
With internationalization support
With multiple codepages support
With ext2fs attributes support
Virtual File Systems:
cpiofs, tarfs, sfs, extfs, ftpfs, sftpfs
Data types:
char: 8; int: 32; long: 64; void *: 64; size_t: 64; off_t: 64;.

On Mon, 23 Dec 2024, John McCue wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux
>> when the holiday starts.
>
> Interesting, my yearly tradition is to do multiple full
> system backup of my workstation and server this time a year.
> Two for "off-site" and a couple for home :)

A wise tradition! In my case, I have an ancient script based on rsync and
tor, that does daily differentials to an old off site laptop.

I have been toying with the idea of replacing it with restic, but haven't
yet gotten around to it. Let's see, maybe in 2025. ;)

On Tue, 24 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/23/24 4:21 PM, D wrote:
>> As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
>> holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a long
>> time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
>>
>> Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot
>> files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
>>
>> Even my compiled programs such as alpine, leafnode and possibly one or two
>> more, and my python invoicing application, could just be moved and worked
>> right away.
>>
>> So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed to do
>> was to update my midnight commander config file, because apparently someone
>> in the project decided on a new config format between version 3 and version
>> 4.
>>
>> Impressive!
>
>
> What ? WHAT ??? An actual LINUX question ???!!! :-)

Apologies!

> Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
> just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time
> to jump up two or three whole distro versions. It's
> only 'home use' now, so I'm not so worried about
> Vlad and Xi.

Same here + the company web server, but it only has two ports open to the
net, so nothing to worry about there.

Then I have my colleague who runs some hosting, and I actually have no
idea what he runs. Since he is responsible, he gets free choice as long as
it's not windows or kubernetes, and those rules he has followed.

> Alas most of my stuff is Deb based, and WORM was
> NOT encouraging - too 'Canonical' now. DO have
> some Arch/Fedora based boxes though ... may just
> go straight Fedora for awhile ........
>
> DID love OpenSUSE - but now it's kinda trapped in
> the IBM/RHEL vortex. Don't wanna be an unpaid
> beta-tester for IBM.

Yes, opensuse has served me well for at least a decade if not more. But
I've heard rumours they will stop with the leap distribution and do some
kind of rootless, or rolling release stuff _only_. I do not like it! I
want stability and not sand shifting under my feet.

So if/when they disappear, I'm looking at FreeBSD to replace it,
alternatively possibly debian or slckware. We'll see!

On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 01:31:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
> just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time to jump up two or
> three whole distro versions. It's only 'home use' now, so I'm not so
> worried about Vlad and Xi.

The Fedora box pulls down kernels frequently and is usually only a minor
version or two behind the latest. The Ubuntu box is still 6.8.0. They both
work fine for anything I do.

vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
<snip>
> # mkdir RCS
> # ci -w(your username) -l -d (filename)
>
> rcs, the revision control system, is lightweight and easy to
> handle. You can diff your files with rcsdiff.

That is exactly what I do with OS configs.

<snip>

--
csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars

On 12/24/24 9:26 AM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> On 12/23/24 4:21 PM, D wrote:
>>> As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
>>> holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a
>>> long time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
>>>
>>> Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my
>>> dot files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
>>>
>>> Even my compiled programs such as alpine, leafnode and possibly one
>>> or two more, and my python invoicing application, could just be moved
>>> and worked right away.
>>>
>>> So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed
>>> to do was to update my midnight commander config file, because
>>> apparently someone in the project decided on a new config format
>>> between version 3 and version 4.
>>>
>>> Impressive!
>>
>>
>>  What ? WHAT ??? An actual LINUX question ???!!!  :-)
>
> Apologies!
>
>>  Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
>>  just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time
>>  to jump up two or three whole distro versions. It's
>>  only 'home use' now, so I'm not so worried about
>>  Vlad and Xi.
>
> Same here + the company web server, but it only has two ports open to
> the net, so nothing to worry about there.
>
> Then I have my colleague who runs some hosting, and I actually have no
> idea what he runs. Since he is responsible, he gets free choice as long
> as it's not windows or kubernetes, and those rules he has followed.

Linux is pretty damned secure - so keeping up with
the very latest updates (unless it's a busy busy
outward-facing server) is usually not so critical.
Kernel 6.x has some added goodies over 4.x, but
it's not THAT much "improved".

>>  Alas most of my stuff is Deb based, and WORM was
>>  NOT encouraging - too 'Canonical' now. DO have
>>  some Arch/Fedora based boxes though ... may just
>>  go straight Fedora for awhile ........
>>
>>  DID love OpenSUSE - but now it's kinda trapped in
>>  the IBM/RHEL vortex. Don't wanna be an unpaid
>>  beta-tester for IBM.
>
> Yes, opensuse has served me well for at least a decade if not more. But
> I've heard rumours they will stop with the leap distribution and do some
> kind of rootless, or rolling release stuff _only_. I do not like it! I
> want stability and not sand shifting under my feet.

There's much to be said for solid 'releases'.

"Rolling" WORKS of course, but it subtly alters the
landscape over short time-scales. Updates also use
a lot of bandwidth - almost the entire distro - for
even the smallest additions.

DID get Tumbleweed to work on a Pi4 ... but it
wasn't very snappy even using lighter desktops.

> So if/when they disappear, I'm looking at FreeBSD to replace it,
> alternatively possibly debian or slckware. We'll see!

FreeBSD ain't terrible. Depends on your needs however.
One of my biggest gripes with the BSDs is that their
drivers tend to be YEARS behind.

Despite bragging, never really got OpenBSD to install
super-clean. It's also kinda too security anal. For
SOME applications though that may be good.

DragonFly is OK ... forked from Free4 ... has its own
odd file system however.

You MIGHT want to look at OpenIndiana. Again a bit
odd, but it works.

In any case, Linux is NOT the alpha and omega of *IX
systems.

On 12/24/24 2:21 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 01:31:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>
>> Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
>> just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time to jump up two or
>> three whole distro versions. It's only 'home use' now, so I'm not so
>> worried about Vlad and Xi.
>
> The Fedora box pulls down kernels frequently and is usually only a minor
> version or two behind the latest. The Ubuntu box is still 6.8.0. They both
> work fine for anything I do.

Zactly ... ordinary upgrades almost always get it done.

Again though, a busy outwards-facing server, some of
those point upgrades MAY be valuable.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

>> Same here + the company web server, but it only has two ports open to the
>> net, so nothing to worry about there.
>>
>> Then I have my colleague who runs some hosting, and I actually have no idea
>> what he runs. Since he is responsible, he gets free choice as long as it's
>> not windows or kubernetes, and those rules he has followed.
>
> Linux is pretty damned secure - so keeping up with
> the very latest updates (unless it's a busy busy
> outward-facing server) is usually not so critical.
> Kernel 6.x has some added goodies over 4.x, but
> it's not THAT much "improved".

This mirrors my experiences. I've never had any break ins on my servers. This
has always been to limited exposure, rather than me being up to date with the
latest patches. Oh, and also due to the simplicity of what I hosted which means
the limited exposure above.

>>>  Alas most of my stuff is Deb based, and WORM was
>>>  NOT encouraging - too 'Canonical' now. DO have
>>>  some Arch/Fedora based boxes though ... may just
>>>  go straight Fedora for awhile ........
>>>
>>>  DID love OpenSUSE - but now it's kinda trapped in
>>>  the IBM/RHEL vortex. Don't wanna be an unpaid
>>>  beta-tester for IBM.
>>
>> Yes, opensuse has served me well for at least a decade if not more. But
>> I've heard rumours they will stop with the leap distribution and do some
>> kind of rootless, or rolling release stuff _only_. I do not like it! I want
>> stability and not sand shifting under my feet.
>
> There's much to be said for solid 'releases'.

Amen!

> "Rolling" WORKS of course, but it subtly alters the
> landscape over short time-scales. Updates also use
> a lot of bandwidth - almost the entire distro - for
> even the smallest additions.
>
> DID get Tumbleweed to work on a Pi4 ... but it
> wasn't very snappy even using lighter desktops.

I tried to get opensuse to work on my radxa zero, but didn't work. I suspect
something needed to be changed or adapted with the image since the debian I used
in the end, had been massaged by the radxa team.

>> So if/when they disappear, I'm looking at FreeBSD to replace it,
>> alternatively possibly debian or slckware. We'll see!
>
> FreeBSD ain't terrible. Depends on your needs however.
> One of my biggest gripes with the BSDs is that their
> drivers tend to be YEARS behind.

I imagine it should work fine on VM:s and a standard, older server. I tried it
on a 1 year old Asus laptop and it worked pretty ok.

> Despite bragging, never really got OpenBSD to install
> super-clean. It's also kinda too security anal. For
> SOME applications though that may be good.
>
> DragonFly is OK ... forked from Free4 ... has its own
> odd file system however.
>
> You MIGHT want to look at OpenIndiana. Again a bit
> odd, but it works.

Woulnd't that be even further behind than FreeBSD?

> In any case, Linux is NOT the alpha and omega of *IX
> systems.

This is the truth!

D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
> holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a long
> time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.

Where practical I prefer to clone the drive and upgrade the clone,
then work on the issues while using the old OS on the original
drive and finally clone the upgrade drive over when everything's
working right (after doing a backup of the old one just in case I
was wrong). So there's no deadline as such, just the annoyance of
needing to note when new software is installed during use so the
same can be done on the upgrade drive.

> Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot
> files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.

I often have trouble with things getting unintentionally
uninstalled.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On Wed, 25 Dec 2024 02:15:44 -0500, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
wrote in <BcucnUKMhO-9LPb6nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@earthlink.com>:

> On 12/24/24 2:21 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 01:31:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
>>> just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time to jump up two or
>>> three whole distro versions. It's only 'home use' now, so I'm not so
>>> worried about Vlad and Xi.
>>
>> The Fedora box pulls down kernels frequently and is usually only a minor
>> version or two behind the latest. The Ubuntu box is still 6.8.0. They both
>> work fine for anything I do.
>
> Zactly ... ordinary upgrades almost always get it done.
>
> Again though, a busy outwards-facing server, some of
> those point upgrades MAY be valuable.

I remembered this one:

"EXT4 Has A Very Nice Performance Optimization For Linux 6.11"

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.11-EXT4

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.13.0-rc4 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"He who Laughs, Lasts."

On Wed, 26 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
>> holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a long
>> time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
>
> Where practical I prefer to clone the drive and upgrade the clone,
> then work on the issues while using the old OS on the original

Way to advanced for my humble infrastructure. ;) But online and in the
hosting environment, snapshots are very convenient when doing any big
changes. Actually, I do have btrfs on my opensuse, so when doing any
upgrades, it does take a snapshot, so I do have the option of rolling back
to the last good snapshot. Come to think of it, I've done it once with
great success! =)

> drive and finally clone the upgrade drive over when everything's
> working right (after doing a backup of the old one just in case I
> was wrong). So there's no deadline as such, just the annoyance of
> needing to note when new software is installed during use so the
> same can be done on the upgrade drive.
>
>> Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot
>> files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
>
> I often have trouble with things getting unintentionally
> uninstalled.

Strangely enough, everything survived and was upgraded after the OS
upgrade. Opensuse is a true ninja! I do not understand why not more people
use it in production. I suspect that it is one distro that will disappear
within the next 10 years or so, as SUSE gets more and more mismanaged.

On 12/25/24 4:30 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Dec 2024 02:15:44 -0500, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
> wrote in <BcucnUKMhO-9LPb6nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@earthlink.com>:
>
>> On 12/24/24 2:21 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 01:31:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
>>>> just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time to jump up two or
>>>> three whole distro versions. It's only 'home use' now, so I'm not so
>>>> worried about Vlad and Xi.
>>>
>>> The Fedora box pulls down kernels frequently and is usually only a minor
>>> version or two behind the latest. The Ubuntu box is still 6.8.0. They both
>>> work fine for anything I do.
>>
>> Zactly ... ordinary upgrades almost always get it done.
>>
>> Again though, a busy outwards-facing server, some of
>> those point upgrades MAY be valuable.
>
> I remembered this one:
>
> "EXT4 Has A Very Nice Performance Optimization For Linux 6.11"
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.11-EXT4

Maybe ... but it's STILL "mass storage" and will
be VASTLY slower than the CPU and such.

Oh well, better than tape reels and such ...

I kinda remember doing code 'overlays' with stuff
pulled off those spinny tapes ... like WOW slow !
The good 'ole "batch" days :-)

Turbo Pascal did 'overlays' too - and had to use
'em early on with limited PCs. However 'cheap'
HDDs had been invented so it wasn't THAT bad.

5 1/4 full-height Rodime 10 MEGAbyte HDD ...
that's the first 'cheap' one I used. Something
like $2600 1980s dollars. My poor boss spent
the whole weekend with the thing trying to
get it to boot the system. I looked at it on
Monday ... turned out he was just too IMPATIENT
and would restart over and over and over before
the boot routine could fully kick in :-)

Not sure if those were "MFM" or just "FM".

STILL kinda write software with the 'batch'
approach in mind. First bit does its stuff
and makes temp file, then the second works
on that and makes another temp file, on
and on until it's done. Advantage - you can
LOOK at those temp files for debugging clues.
Just include a "-P" 'preserve tempfiles' option.

On 12/25/24 5:08 PM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>
>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>> As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
>>> holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a
>>> long
>>> time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
>>
>> Where practical I prefer to clone the drive and upgrade the clone,
>> then work on the issues while using the old OS on the original
>
> Way to advanced for my humble infrastructure. ;) But online and in the
> hosting environment, snapshots are very convenient when doing any big
> changes. Actually, I do have btrfs on my opensuse, so when doing any
> upgrades, it does take a snapshot, so I do have the option of rolling
> back to the last good snapshot. Come to think of it, I've done it once
> with great success! =)
>
>> drive and finally clone the upgrade drive over when everything's
>> working right (after doing a backup of the old one just in case I
>> was wrong). So there's no deadline as such, just the annoyance of
>> needing to note when new software is installed during use so the
>> same can be done on the upgrade drive.
>>
>>> Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot
>>> files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
>>
>> I often have trouble with things getting unintentionally
>> uninstalled.
>
> Strangely enough, everything survived and was upgraded after the OS
> upgrade. Opensuse is a true ninja! I do not understand why not more
> people use it in production. I suspect that it is one distro that will
> disappear within the next 10 years or so, as SUSE gets more and more
> mismanaged.

The death of OpenSUSE is that it's part of the IBM/RHEL
vortex now, just like CentOS. Using it, you're basically
an unpaid beta tester for IBM. Eventually they won't need
that so much - and that entire distro family will just
go away.

Hmm ... time for a "MOREOpenSUSE" fork ... it really is a
very good, useful, helpful distro. Used it for a LONG
time for both workstations and servers.

Debian WAS good - but now it's gone way too 'Canonical'
for no good reasons whatsoever except to cause problems.
A few forks like Devuan may still be OK for now.

Arch derivs and a few of the BSDs may be your future.
Just downloaded the latest 'Dragonfly' yesterday. I'll
make a VM out of it for experimental purposes. The
biggest BSD prob these days is that the driver database
tends to run years behind ... making them better for
servers with boring standard hardware.