-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>>> And when was this, for the question still remains unanswered:
>>>
>>> "When was that older PC originally put into service with Win10?"
>>
>> At 10's release, it had 7 and 8/8.1, then 7 again, then 10, then
>> Linux.
>
>Meaning that it predated Win10's 2015 release date,

It was two years old for W8 upgrade ($40 for Pro).

> so you did get
>roughly ten (10) years life out of that legacy hardware, as per what DFS
>was saying.

It got whatever Windows 8.1 was supported for*, 10 became poor (2019).

* Jan. 10, 2023, 12 years after initial build

>>>> M$ has disowned numerous computers.
>>>
>>> By almost as much as you've avoided answering this simple question.
>>
>> Win10 would make this PC golden, but support is dropped.
>
>Support hasn't been dropped yet.

I need something less on its deathbed.

> MS has extended claimed EOL's in the
>past and could easily do so again.

There will be paid extended support for security fixes. But it's
clinging.

>Plus Win10 currently has a 62.7% usage share of all Windows OS systems,
>and it doesn't seem all that likely that its usage is going to drop fast
>enough to make it an insignificant percentage by October 2025
>
><https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide>
>
>Plus even if an OEM's official support has ended, there's nothing which
>prevents you from just continuing to run a legacy OS. Case in point, 3%
>of Windows usage share is of pre-Win10 OS's (XP/7/8/etc) still in use.

Microsoft doesn't understand the reluctance to use Linux.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 1/19/25 8:28 PM, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>> And when was this, for the question still remains unanswered:
>>>>
>>>> "When was that older PC originally put into service with Win10?"
>>>
>>> At 10's release, it had 7 and 8/8.1, then 7 again, then 10, then
>>> Linux.
>>
>> Meaning that it predated Win10's 2015 release date,
>
>
> It was two years old for W8 upgrade ($40 for Pro).

Windows 8 came out in 2012, so this was then a 2010 purchase.
Which also then means your CoVid stimulus check PC was +10 years later.

Ergo:

"...so you did get roughly ten (10) years life out of that legacy
hardware, as per what DFS was saying."

> It got whatever Windows 8.1 was supported for*, 10 became poor (2019).
>
> * Jan. 10, 2023, 12 years after initial build

Which is even better than a 10 year useful service life.

>>>>> M$ has disowned numerous computers.
>>>>
>>>> By almost as much as you've avoided answering this simple question.
>>>
>>> Win10 would make this PC golden, but support is dropped.
>>
>> Support hasn't been dropped yet.
>
> I need something less on its deathbed.

For a mid-2020 planned purchase, this was already after MS had made
their announcement in 2019 that Win10 was to be replaced. MS had been
pushing TPM 2.0 since at least 2015 (Win8), so that's an obvious
hardware requirement, plus whatever other else was already known or
likely for Windows-after-10: its the 'Caveat Emptor' for DIY'ers.

>> MS has extended claimed EOL's in the
>> past and could easily do so again.
>
>
> There will be paid extended support for security fixes. But it's
> clinging.

Yes, paying is an option too. Thanks for adding it to the list.

>> Plus Win10 currently has a 62.7% usage share of all Windows OS systems,
>> and it doesn't seem all that likely that its usage is going to drop fast
>> enough to make it an insignificant percentage by October 2025
>>
>> <https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide>
>>
>> Plus even if an OEM's official support has ended, there's nothing which
>> prevents you from just continuing to run a legacy OS. Case in point, 3%
>> of Windows usage share is of pre-Win10 OS's (XP/7/8/etc) still in use.
>
> Microsoft doesn't understand the reluctance to use Linux.

The slow rate of uptake of Win11 over the past three years isn't really
a problem per se - its just verification that the hardware replacement
cycle really has slowed by as much as what DFS was indicating.

FYI, my desktop didn't come with Win11, but its handling it fine; YMMV
if its because I did better research before purchasing than you did, or
perhaps it was that your PC never was actually 'broken', etc.

-hh

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>>>>> And when was this, for the question still remains unanswered:
>>>>>
>>>>> "When was that older PC originally put into service with Win10?"
>>>>
>>>> At 10's release, it had 7 and 8/8.1, then 7 again, then 10, then
>>>> Linux.
>>>
>>> Meaning that it predated Win10's 2015 release date,
>>
>> It was two years old for W8 upgrade ($40 for Pro).
>
>Windows 8 came out in 2012, so this was then a 2010 purchase.
>Which also then means your CoVid stimulus check PC was +10 years later.
>
>Ergo:
>
>"...so you did get roughly ten (10) years life out of that legacy
>hardware, as per what DFS was saying."
>
>> It got whatever Windows 8.1 was supported for*, 10 became poor (2019).
>>
>> * Jan. 10, 2023, 12 years after initial build
>
>Which is even better than a 10 year useful service life.

Although, I got it with Linux instead of restoring Win8.1.

>> Microsoft doesn't understand the reluctance to use Linux.
>
>The slow rate of uptake of Win11 over the past three years isn't really
>a problem per se - its just verification that the hardware replacement
>cycle really has slowed by as much as what DFS was indicating.
>
>FYI, my desktop didn't come with Win11, but its handling it fine; YMMV
>if its because I did better research before purchasing than you did, or
>perhaps it was that your PC never was actually 'broken', etc.

"Broken", no, Win11 will always be support for my hardware. Linux far
better, though.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2025-01-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 1/19/25 2:22 AM, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-01-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 1/18/25 4:08 PM, DFS wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/2025 1:07 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I reject the Win platform as a dead end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Windows will long outlive you and all the other doomsday cola advocates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Explain how to keep up with demands on hardware without replacing
>>>>> motherboard every three years.  "Don't upgrade to Win12" only supports
>>>>> my point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Total absurd bullshit.
>>>>
>>>> You have NEVER needed to upgrade/replace your mobo every 3 years for a
>>>> new version of Windows.
>>>>
>>>> As I've requested several times, make sure to keep your current hardware
>>>> around so I can rub your Linuxy face in it when Win13 installs and runs
>>>> just fine on it.
>>>
>>> I have to agree with you here. There was pressure to buy new hardware
>>> every two or three years back in the 90s, but hardware nowadays easily
>>> goes a decade with the original operating system on it. However, Windows
>>> in that time will become unbearably slow for most users since they
>>> usually have no idea how to maintain it. Linux, for its part, will be
>>> just as fast ten years down the line as it was on day one.
>>
>> And considerably faster if you replace the hard drive with an SSD. My old
>> computers are "living" proof of that.
>
> I can't even imagine using a computer with a hard disk nowadays. I guess
> it takes severe retardation, like the one Larry Pietraskiewicz is
> suffering from, to see benefits to using one.

Hard drives work pretty well for backing up files when used in USB
enclosures. That's basically all I use them for now.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2025-01-19, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 07:22:39 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> And considerably faster if you replace the hard drive with an SSD. My
>> old computers are "living" proof of that.
>
> I had to go SATA on the old Dell since the one PCIe slot was in use. While
> the SSD allows SATA to reach its theoretical speeds the a HDD couldn't the
> difference to NMVe is noticeable.

It's mostly the boot process where I notice the difference in speed. My
computers are pretty old, but with an SSD they'll boot in less than 30
seconds. It took about two minutes on my old hard drives.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2025-01-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>
>>> replac[ing] the hard drive [in an older computer] with an SSD [makes them considerably faster]. My old
>>> computers are "living" proof of that.
>>
>> I can't even imagine using a computer with a hard disk nowadays. I guess
>> it takes severe retardation, like the one Larry Pietraskiewicz is
>> suffering from, to see benefits to using one.
>
>Hard drives work pretty well for backing up files when used in USB
>enclosures. That's basically all I use them for now.

I like external drives inclusive of HDDs.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 1/19/25 10:53 PM, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-01-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 1/19/25 2:22 AM, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2025-01-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/25 4:08 PM, DFS wrote:
>>>>> On 1/18/2025 1:07 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>>> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I reject the Win platform as a dead end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Windows will long outlive you and all the other doomsday cola advocates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Explain how to keep up with demands on hardware without replacing
>>>>>> motherboard every three years.  "Don't upgrade to Win12" only supports
>>>>>> my point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Total absurd bullshit.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have NEVER needed to upgrade/replace your mobo every 3 years for a
>>>>> new version of Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I've requested several times, make sure to keep your current hardware
>>>>> around so I can rub your Linuxy face in it when Win13 installs and runs
>>>>> just fine on it.
>>>>
>>>> I have to agree with you here. There was pressure to buy new hardware
>>>> every two or three years back in the 90s, but hardware nowadays easily
>>>> goes a decade with the original operating system on it. However, Windows
>>>> in that time will become unbearably slow for most users since they
>>>> usually have no idea how to maintain it. Linux, for its part, will be
>>>> just as fast ten years down the line as it was on day one.
>>>
>>> And considerably faster if you replace the hard drive with an SSD. My old
>>> computers are "living" proof of that.
>>
>> I can't even imagine using a computer with a hard disk nowadays. I guess
>> it takes severe retardation, like the one Larry Pietraskiewicz is
>> suffering from, to see benefits to using one.
>
> Hard drives work pretty well for backing up files when used in USB
> enclosures. That's basically all I use them for now.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't even trust them for that. The WD laptop hard
disk I got to replace the one that came with my Sony laptop died within
eight months. The one it replaced lasted a year. I bought an external
2TB Seagate hard disk from Walmart and I just found out that it died
too, about two years after purchase. The only hard disk I can think of
that lasted a while is the one in my parents' Mac Mini which is still
kicking after more than a decade. The technology is just not as sturdy
as it once was.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
KDE supporting member
ASUS Zephyrus GA401QM on Manjaro

On 1/10/2025 1:59 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2025-01-10 12:43, DFS wrote:
>> On 1/10/2025 12:37 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-
>>> install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
>>>
>>> Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows
>>> 10 systems starting with next month's security update.
>>
>> Another nothing burger.
>>
>> Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
>> forces on you.
>
> Once again, you miss the point: your operating system does not care what
> you want or don't want because your computer doesn't belong to you.

You're drinking way too much GuhNoo kook-aid lately.

Linux distros don't care what you want or don't want - they put whatever
THEY want on it, and you're usually forced to install it. Maybe some
pieces can be uninstalled, and maybe not.

The claim that most distros offer 'minimal installations' is totally untrue.

Distrowatch recent ranking
Distro minimal desktop install avail
-------------- -----------------------------
1 Mint no
2 MX Linux yes (Fluxbox only)
3 EndeavourOS yes
4 Debian yes
5 CachyOS no
6 Manjaro no
7 Pop!_OS no
8 Ubuntu no
9 Fedora yes (CoreOS)
10 openSUSE yes (network image)
11 Zorin no
12 Nobara no
13 elementary no
14 KDE neon no
15 antiX yes

And your FOSS computer operating system doesn't belong to you in any
way, shape or form. It's permissively licensed, but it's not yours.

Many MS-hater kooks blather on about 'software freedom' and 'you have
the source - fix it yourself'. Having the source code is nice, but the
extreme difficulty of modifying and re/deploying 3rd party code means
you're effectively locked into whatever they give you.

Now what point did I miss?

On 1/17/2025 6:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 1/17/25 5:19 PM, DFS wrote:
>> On 1/17/2025 11:07 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> I'm seeing that if there is a significant problem in Linux and there
>>> is a reason to fix it, they will. I emphasize the adjective
>>> _significant_ there, not the ridiculous "issues" DFS has with
>>> LibreOffice Calc.
>>
>> Which ridiculous issues are you referring to?
>
> I didn't pay enough attention to your constant complaints about
> LibreOffice Calc and database software to record them.

I haven't complained specifically about Calc too much. It's barely
acceptable, if you can't afford $25 for a recent version of MS Office/Excel.

But LO Base should've been removed from LibreOffice years ago.

On 1/16/2025 1:28 PM, shitv wrote:

> I think us DIY guys tend to overspend and overbuild our systems. So
> we don't save any money, but they are better-built.

Jan 2010 I assembled a new system:

* heavy tower case with builtin handle (Cooler Master Scout, $110)

* high-end power supply (Seasonic X650 Gold, $170).

(14+ years later and both are still in nearly perfect shape)

* Gigabyte P55A UD3 motherboard, $135, lasted 12 years.

* HIS video card, $163, lasted 6 years.

On 1/20/25 4:39 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 1/10/2025 1:59 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> On 2025-01-10 12:43, DFS wrote:
>>> On 1/10/2025 12:37 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-force-
>>>> install-new-outlook-on-windows-10-pcs-in-february/>
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft will force install the new Outlook email client on Windows
>>>> 10 systems starting with next month's security update.
>>>
>>> Another nothing burger.
>>>
>>> Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux
>>> distro forces on you.
>>
>> Once again, you miss the point: your operating system does not care
>> what you want or don't want because your computer doesn't belong to you.
>
>
> You're drinking way too much GuhNoo kook-aid lately.
>
> Linux distros don't care what you want or don't want - they put whatever
> THEY want on it, and you're usually forced to install it.  Maybe some
> pieces can be uninstalled, and maybe not.
>
> The claim that most distros offer 'minimal installations' is totally
> untrue.
>
> Distrowatch recent ranking
> Distro            minimal desktop install avail
> --------------    -----------------------------
> 1 Mint              no
> 2 MX Linux          yes (Fluxbox only)
> 3 EndeavourOS       yes
> 4 Debian            yes
> 5 CachyOS           no
> 6 Manjaro           no
> 7 Pop!_OS           no
> 8 Ubuntu            no
> 9 Fedora            yes (CoreOS)
> 10 openSUSE         yes (network image)
> 11 Zorin            no
> 12 Nobara           no
> 13 elementary       no
> 14 KDE neon         no
> 15 antiX            yes
>
> And your FOSS computer operating system doesn't belong to you in any
> way, shape or form.  It's permissively licensed, but it's not yours.
>
> Many MS-hater kooks blather on about 'software freedom' and 'you have
> the source - fix it yourself'.  Having the source code is nice, but the
> extreme difficulty of modifying and re/deploying 3rd party code means
> you're effectively locked into whatever they give you.
>
> Now what point did I miss?

Install any of the distributions in that list and you can remove _every_
application it comes with. You can make it as minimal as you wish if it
doesn't already allow you to install minimally.

A quick look at that list though says that Ubuntu doesn't allow a
minimal install. It does, so your facts are wrong. You can check a
review of the last few Ubuntu releases on YouTube for proof. As for the
distributions there that I tried, like Pop!_OS and Nobara, a minimal
install would defeat the purpose of even using the distribution. One is
based on Ubuntu and has modifications to make it better for the
computers it sells, power management, NVIDIA support and gaming in
general. In the case of Nobara, it is Fedora with the patches necessary
to make NVIDIA a better experience, same with gaming and a number of
modifications for ASUS hardware. If you wanted a minimal install of
either, just use Ubuntu and Fedora.

I'll say it again though: all of them allow you to remove and replace
whatever you wish. With Windows, you can't even remove Edge without it
coming back the moment you update.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
KDE supporting member
ASUS Zephyrus GA401QM on Manjaro

On 1/20/25 4:40 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 1/17/2025 6:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> On 1/17/25 5:19 PM, DFS wrote:
>>> On 1/17/2025 11:07 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm seeing that if there is a significant problem in Linux and there
>>>> is a reason to fix it, they will. I emphasize the adjective
>>>> _significant_ there, not the ridiculous "issues" DFS has with
>>>> LibreOffice Calc.
>>>
>>> Which ridiculous issues are you referring to?
>>
>> I didn't pay enough attention to your constant complaints about
>> LibreOffice Calc and database software to record them.
>
>
> I haven't complained specifically about Calc too much.  It's barely
> acceptable, if you can't afford $25 for a recent version of MS Office/
> Excel.
>
> But LO Base should've been removed from LibreOffice years ago.

It exists in case someone needs it, so there is no point in removing it.
Also, why would you even need to pay for a Microsoft Office license if
LibreOffice does everything you need anyway? I'm sure Microsoft's suite
does a better job at many things, but the corporation is selling the
program and the clients want something stellar for the money they paid
for it. LibreOffice is _given_ to you. It's not looking for money. It's
not trying to compete. Yet, it manages to do so anyway and quite well.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
KDE supporting member
ASUS Zephyrus GA401QM on Manjaro

On 2025-01-20, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 1/19/25 10:53 PM, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-01-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 1/19/25 2:22 AM, RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2025-01-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/18/25 4:08 PM, DFS wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/18/2025 1:07 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>>>> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I reject the Win platform as a dead end.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Windows will long outlive you and all the other doomsday cola advocates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Explain how to keep up with demands on hardware without replacing
>>>>>>> motherboard every three years.  "Don't upgrade to Win12" only supports
>>>>>>> my point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Total absurd bullshit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have NEVER needed to upgrade/replace your mobo every 3 years for a
>>>>>> new version of Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I've requested several times, make sure to keep your current hardware
>>>>>> around so I can rub your Linuxy face in it when Win13 installs and runs
>>>>>> just fine on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to agree with you here. There was pressure to buy new hardware
>>>>> every two or three years back in the 90s, but hardware nowadays easily
>>>>> goes a decade with the original operating system on it. However, Windows
>>>>> in that time will become unbearably slow for most users since they
>>>>> usually have no idea how to maintain it. Linux, for its part, will be
>>>>> just as fast ten years down the line as it was on day one.
>>>>
>>>> And considerably faster if you replace the hard drive with an SSD. My old
>>>> computers are "living" proof of that.
>>>
>>> I can't even imagine using a computer with a hard disk nowadays. I guess
>>> it takes severe retardation, like the one Larry Pietraskiewicz is
>>> suffering from, to see benefits to using one.
>>
>> Hard drives work pretty well for backing up files when used in USB
>> enclosures. That's basically all I use them for now.
>
> Perhaps, but I wouldn't even trust them for that. The WD laptop hard
> disk I got to replace the one that came with my Sony laptop died within
> eight months. The one it replaced lasted a year. I bought an external
> 2TB Seagate hard disk from Walmart and I just found out that it died
> too, about two years after purchase. The only hard disk I can think of
> that lasted a while is the one in my parents' Mac Mini which is still
> kicking after more than a decade. The technology is just not as sturdy
> as it once was.

I guess I'm still using technology that "once was," as I haven't any major
hard drive problems since the mid 90s.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

CrudeSausage wrote:

> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>
>> (idiocy and lies, snipped)

Out of the other side of this dumb fsck's filthy, lying gob, he'll
whine about "too many choices" in Linux distros.

>Install any of the distributions in that list and you can remove _every_
>application it comes with. You can make it as minimal as you wish if it
>doesn't already allow you to install minimally.
>
>A quick look at that list though says that Ubuntu doesn't allow a
>minimal install. It does, so your facts are wrong. You can check a
>review of the last few Ubuntu releases on YouTube for proof. As for the
>distributions there that I tried, like Pop!_OS and Nobara, a minimal
>install would defeat the purpose of even using the distribution. One is
>based on Ubuntu and has modifications to make it better for the
>computers it sells, power management, NVIDIA support and gaming in
>general. In the case of Nobara, it is Fedora with the patches necessary
>to make NVIDIA a better experience, same with gaming and a number of
>modifications for ASUS hardware. If you wanted a minimal install of
>either, just use Ubuntu and Fedora.

Right. Even if DumFSck wasn't lying about the user's freedom to
customize his installation, he's still ignoring the fact that with
GNU/Linux there is orders of magnitude more choice in pre-packaged
distributions, compared to WinDOS.

--
"In other words, you take what they give you and you better like it."
- DumFSck, lying shamelessly

On 1/21/25 7:05 AM, chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>
>>> (idiocy and lies, snipped)
>
> Out of the other side of this dumb fsck's filthy, lying gob, he'll
> whine about "too many choices" in Linux distros.
>
>> Install any of the distributions in that list and you can remove _every_
>> application it comes with. You can make it as minimal as you wish if it
>> doesn't already allow you to install minimally.
>>
>> A quick look at that list though says that Ubuntu doesn't allow a
>> minimal install. It does, so your facts are wrong. You can check a
>> review of the last few Ubuntu releases on YouTube for proof. As for the
>> distributions there that I tried, like Pop!_OS and Nobara, a minimal
>> install would defeat the purpose of even using the distribution. One is
>> based on Ubuntu and has modifications to make it better for the
>> computers it sells, power management, NVIDIA support and gaming in
>> general. In the case of Nobara, it is Fedora with the patches necessary
>> to make NVIDIA a better experience, same with gaming and a number of
>> modifications for ASUS hardware. If you wanted a minimal install of
>> either, just use Ubuntu and Fedora.
>
> Right. Even if DumFSck wasn't lying about the user's freedom to
> customize his installation, he's still ignoring the fact that with
> GNU/Linux there is orders of magnitude more choice in pre-packaged
> distributions, compared to WinDOS.

One of those choices is to replace whatever comes with your Linux
distribution with tlp for improved power efficiency. If you're not a fan
of Firefox, you can remove it and put on Chrome, Chromium or Brave
without the initial browser bugging you. If Thunderbird is not your cup
of tea, feel free to install Kmail, Evolution or Sylpheed without
Thunderbird sending you ads telling you that you've committed the crime
of thinking differently. Heck, you can change the audio system if you
find that the default is lacking and even change the animations when you
open, close or minimize windows if you feel that they're not your style.
Even for your GPU, if you're a masochist, you can remove the proprietary
driver and use the open one (I'm ignoring AMD here whose open driver is
superior to the proprietary one). You can't do most of the above in
Windows without buying a third-party application. I'm sure the
application will do that and more, but you had to pay for the honour and
the system's stability will likely be impacted anyway.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative
KDE supporting member
ASUS Zephyrus GA401QM on Manjaro

On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 22:50:16 -0500, DFS wrote:

> On 1/12/2025 6:20 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 12:43:14 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently you never noticed the deluge of apps a typical Linux distro
>>> forces on you.
>>
>> Have you noticed this happening on your Linux installs? Please tell us.
>
> Yes. For years I've installed distros by booting a LiveCD/DVD, trying
> it for a little while, and if I liked it enough, installing from the
> live desktop (setting it up as a dual-boot). It's been a long time
> since I recall being offered individual packages or roles to install -
> it usually just forced a lot of junk on you.

It really has been a long time, hasn’t it?

>> Or is this something else you read in The Guardian?
>
> 'DFS reads the Guardian' is silly and ineffective.

But true. You admitted it yourself.

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 06:27:58 -0500, -hh wrote:

> On 1/16/25 12:40 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Everything Apple sells in its “Macintosh” range is effectively a laptop
>> now, just packaged differently. In its move to ARM chips, it has
>> completely sacrificed all the traditional expandability that came with
>> desktop/workstation machines.
>
> Yeah, so?
>
> Over 80% of the total PC market today are laptops.
>
> The old school paradigm of getting elbows-deep into component upgrades
> is a niche that's going to continue to be considered irrelevant by the
> mainstream ...

Maybe not. Found this article
<https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/intel-proposes-easily-repairable-and-sustainable-modular-pc-design-for-laptops-and-mini-pcs>
indicating a trend in the opposite direction, where Intel wants to
break a laptop motherboard into three separate main pieces, to allow
easier replacement/repair/upgrading.

Note also that the Framework company has been doing this sort of thing
with its laptops for years.