On Thu, 09 Jan 2025 13:52:21 -0500, Joel wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn't complaining. I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>>> system. Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>>
>>And their answers? Dell has a number.
>>
>>https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>>linux-os
>
>
> Not bad. Although Ubuntu has never been my preferred distro.

I'll agree with that. After my update to 24.04 yesterday I found I have a
block of BSD games on the menu.

https://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/BSD_games

WTF? Even more confusing while there is an icon they have to be started
from the command line in a terminal. I didn't like 'adventure' back in the
day and certainly didn't expect it to be part of an 'upgrade'

On 9 Jan 2025 18:37:50 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
<luajbuFsh02U2@mid.individual.net>:

> On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> I wasn't complaining. I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>> system. Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>
> And their answers? Dell has a number.
>
> https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
> linux-os

I think he was looking for workstations. The following has
those, as well as desktops:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/scr/desktops/appref=ubuntu-linux-os

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.12.9 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Don't ask me, I only work here."

On 2025-01-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-01-09 03:48, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-01-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>>>>
>>>> It's got to be in the millions.
>>>
>>> System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would
>>> anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing
>>> Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood
>>> restaurant?
>>
>> DuFuS always clutches at straws in his lame attempts to denigrate Linux.
>
> Admittedly, I don't see why a person intending to use Windows would
> complain that System76 or ThinkPenguin isn't catering to them.

He "thinks" he's making a point.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Thu, 09 Jan 2025 13:52:21 -0500, Joel wrote:
>
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wasn't complaining. I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>>>> system. Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>>>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>>>
>>>And their answers? Dell has a number.
>>>
>>>https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>>>linux-os
>>
>> Not bad. Although Ubuntu has never been my preferred distro.
>
> I'll agree with that. After my update to 24.04 yesterday I found I have a
> block of BSD games on the menu.
>
> https://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/BSD_games
>
> WTF? Even more confusing while there is an icon they have to be started
> from the command line in a terminal. I didn't like 'adventure' back in the
> day and certainly didn't expect it to be part of an 'upgrade'

Adventure is already installed on my Debian and Arch systems. They seem to be
compiled with different options, though. And stored in completely different
places.

On Arch, not a lot of room taken up:

% ls -l /usr/bin/adventure
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 97464 May 1 2024 /usr/bin/adventure
me@mlsleno ~
% ldd /usr/bin/adventure
linux-vdso.so.1 (0x000074b9a9f3a000)
libc.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc.so.6 (0x000074b9a9d01000)
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 => /usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x000074b9a9f3c000)

--
I know you're in search of yourself, I just haven't seen you anywhere.

On 1/9/2025 1:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> I wasn't complaining. I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>> system. Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>
> And their answers? Dell has a number.
>
> https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
> linux-os

Dell has offered a limited number of Linux systems for about 15 years.

Most PC OEMs only sell Windows. I don't recall any saying they would
install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a discount.

On 2025-01-10 10:28, DFS wrote:
> On 1/9/2025 1:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>>> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>>
>> And their answers?  Dell has a number.
>>
>> https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>> linux-os
>
>
> Dell has offered a limited number of Linux systems for about 15 years.
>
> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows.  I don't recall any saying they would
> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a discount.

And I'm sure you loaded FreeDOS onto every last one of them!

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>On 1/9/2025 1:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn't complaining. I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>>> system. Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>>
>> And their answers? Dell has a number.
>>
>> https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>> linux-os
>
>Dell has offered a limited number of Linux systems for about 15 years.
>
>Most PC OEMs only sell Windows. I don't recall any saying they would
>install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a discount.

I would expect Win11 Home to come with my ARM laptop, I'd need it to
download Linux to replace it, if I didn't already have the media from
my desktop that is.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 06:51:19 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Adventure is already installed on my Debian and Arch systems. They seem
> to be compiled with different options, though. And stored in completely
> different places.

I think figured out where the bsdgames came from. Last spring I probably
installed them to get the wtf acronym finder, used it a couple of times,
and forgot about it. The games didn't show up on the desktop until the
upgrade. Deleting the badgames directory from /usr/share/applications and
refreshing the database got rid of the icons. It's bad enough the desktop
has stuff in no particular order without a dozen icons that don't do
anything.

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows. I don't recall any saying they would
> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
> discount.

I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE.
The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what
the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost to
the system.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows. I don't recall any saying they would
>> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
>> discount.
>
>I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE.
>The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what
>the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost to
>the system.

OEMs' parts are junk.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows. I don't recall any saying they would
>> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
>> discount.
>
> I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE.
> The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what
> the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost to
> the system.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25249808

Reminds me of that Bill Gates quote from 1998:

Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people
don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," Gates told an
audience at the University of Washington. "And as long as they're going to
steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and
then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.

--
Truthful, adj.: Dumb and illiterate.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:06:26 -0500, Joel wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows. I don't recall any saying they would
>>> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
>>> discount.
>>
>>I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE.
>>The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what
>>the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost
>>to the system.
>
>
> OEMs' parts are junk.

??? Leaving apart the worth of Windows how is a OEM Windows Pro license
junk?

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:06:26 -0500, Joel wrote:
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows. I don't recall any saying they would
>>>> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
>>>> discount.
>>>
>>>I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE.
>>>The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what
>>>the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost
>>>to the system.
>>
>> OEMs' parts are junk.
>
>??? Leaving apart the worth of Windows how is a OEM Windows Pro license
>junk?

I meant hardware, not the OS.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:

> ... a few would sell a no-OS system for a discount.

I’m surprised they didn’t charge you extra.