"Hi DFS,

Thank you for your interest in our products! While System76 only
installs, tests, and supports Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, customers are welcome
to install other operating systems on our hardware without voiding your
warranty. We test against the Linux kernel, and distros with a current
kernel will most likely work well.

We can't guarantee that other distros will function at 100% but we do
offer a 30 day limited money back guarantee on all purchases, so if
there's an issue you can return for a full refund minus the cost of
shipping and any damages. You can find more details about our warranty
here: https://system76.com/warranty.

I am also including a link to a support article that goes into detail
about using Windows on our systems:

https://support.system76.com/articles/windows

Thanks again and please let us know if you need anything else.
Sincerely,

Bill"

That support article is actually very very good. Seems like a
trustworthy company.

DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:

>"Hi DFS,
>
>Thank you for your interest in our products! While System76 only
>installs, tests, and supports Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, customers are welcome
>to install other operating systems on our hardware without voiding your
>warranty. We test against the Linux kernel, and distros with a current
>kernel will most likely work well.
>
>We can't guarantee that other distros will function at 100% but we do
>offer a 30 day limited money back guarantee on all purchases, so if
>there's an issue you can return for a full refund minus the cost of
>shipping and any damages. You can find more details about our warranty
>here: https://system76.com/warranty.
>
>I am also including a link to a support article that goes into detail
>about using Windows on our systems:
>
>https://support.system76.com/articles/windows
>
>Thanks again and please let us know if you need anything else.
>Sincerely,
>
>Bill"
>
>
>That support article is actually very very good. Seems like a
>trustworthy company.

They're good but would cost more than a self-build I presume.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 1/7/2025 10:31 PM, Joel wrote:
> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>
>> "Hi DFS,
>>
>> Thank you for your interest in our products! While System76 only
>> installs, tests, and supports Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, customers are welcome
>> to install other operating systems on our hardware without voiding your
>> warranty. We test against the Linux kernel, and distros with a current
>> kernel will most likely work well.
>>
>> We can't guarantee that other distros will function at 100% but we do
>> offer a 30 day limited money back guarantee on all purchases, so if
>> there's an issue you can return for a full refund minus the cost of
>> shipping and any damages. You can find more details about our warranty
>> here: https://system76.com/warranty.
>>
>> I am also including a link to a support article that goes into detail
>> about using Windows on our systems:
>>
>> https://support.system76.com/articles/windows
>>
>> Thanks again and please let us know if you need anything else.
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Bill"
>>
>>
>> That support article is actually very very good. Seems like a
>> trustworthy company.
>
>
> They're good but would cost more than a self-build I presume.

That System76 ARM system we were talking about recently starts at $3300
and maxes out at $23600.

The upgrades from the base specs cost more than retail, but not too bad.

https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1-n1/configure

Here's a really good 3rd party review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AshDjtlV6go

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:

> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
> hardware without voiding your warranty.

Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.

On 2025-01-07 22:20, DFS wrote:
>
> "Hi DFS,
>
> Thank you for your interest in our products! While System76 only
> installs, tests, and supports Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, customers are welcome
> to install other operating systems on our hardware without voiding your
> warranty. We test against the Linux kernel, and distros with a current
> kernel will most likely work well.
>
> We can't guarantee that other distros will function at 100% but we do
> offer a 30 day limited money back guarantee on all purchases, so if
> there's an issue you can return for a full refund minus the cost of
> shipping and any damages. You can find more details about our warranty
> here: https://system76.com/warranty.
>
> I am also including a link to a support article that goes into detail
> about using Windows on our systems:
>
> https://support.system76.com/articles/windows
>
> Thanks again and please let us know if you need anything else.
> Sincerely,
>
> Bill"
>
>
> That support article is actually very very good.  Seems like a
> trustworthy company.

Yeah, it does. I was considering a Mac after this machine bites the dust
but System76 manufactures machines that are a lot closer to what I would
be looking for. I'm not interested in Pop_OS! itself though. It's fine,
but I'd rather not use GNOME.

--
CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

On 2025-01-07 22:31, Joel wrote:
> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>
>> "Hi DFS,
>>
>> Thank you for your interest in our products! While System76 only
>> installs, tests, and supports Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, customers are welcome
>> to install other operating systems on our hardware without voiding your
>> warranty. We test against the Linux kernel, and distros with a current
>> kernel will most likely work well.
>>
>> We can't guarantee that other distros will function at 100% but we do
>> offer a 30 day limited money back guarantee on all purchases, so if
>> there's an issue you can return for a full refund minus the cost of
>> shipping and any damages. You can find more details about our warranty
>> here: https://system76.com/warranty.
>>
>> I am also including a link to a support article that goes into detail
>> about using Windows on our systems:
>>
>> https://support.system76.com/articles/windows
>>
>> Thanks again and please let us know if you need anything else.
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Bill"
>>
>>
>> That support article is actually very very good. Seems like a
>> trustworthy company.
>
>
> They're good but would cost more than a self-build I presume.

Usually, desktops are less expensive if you buy them pre-built. They're
released a few articles on that already and shown that buying a
pre-built gaming machine, for example, will cost you less than building
one yourself _unless_ you already have a few parts and don't intend to
replace them.

--
CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

On 2025-01-08 01:34, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>
> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.

Not really. There are benefits to using Pop_OS! on a System76 machine,
notably the software they bundle for power management. However, many
people might not feel that they need them, and the machine should work
just as well with something like OpenMandriva.

--
CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>
> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.

I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.

It's got to be in the millions.

CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>On 2025-01-07 22:31, Joel wrote:
>> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>
>>> "Hi DFS,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your interest in our products! While System76 only
>>> installs, tests, and supports Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, customers are welcome
>>> to install other operating systems on our hardware without voiding your
>>> warranty. We test against the Linux kernel, and distros with a current
>>> kernel will most likely work well.
>>>
>>> We can't guarantee that other distros will function at 100% but we do
>>> offer a 30 day limited money back guarantee on all purchases, so if
>>> there's an issue you can return for a full refund minus the cost of
>>> shipping and any damages. You can find more details about our warranty
>>> here: https://system76.com/warranty.
>>>
>>> I am also including a link to a support article that goes into detail
>>> about using Windows on our systems:
>>>
>>> https://support.system76.com/articles/windows
>>>
>>> Thanks again and please let us know if you need anything else.
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Bill"
>>>
>>>
>>> That support article is actually very very good. Seems like a
>>> trustworthy company.
>>
>> They're good but would cost more than a self-build I presume.
>
>Usually, desktops are less expensive if you buy them pre-built. They're
>released a few articles on that already and shown that buying a
>pre-built gaming machine, for example, will cost you less than building
>one yourself _unless_ you already have a few parts and don't intend to
>replace them.

Since I initially used CPU video, I saved by building, more quality
for the money, and when I did move to a video card I bought an
inexpensive one.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2025-01-08 12:21, Joel wrote:
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2025-01-07 22:31, Joel wrote:
>>> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Hi DFS,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your interest in our products! While System76 only
>>>> installs, tests, and supports Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, customers are welcome
>>>> to install other operating systems on our hardware without voiding your
>>>> warranty. We test against the Linux kernel, and distros with a current
>>>> kernel will most likely work well.
>>>>
>>>> We can't guarantee that other distros will function at 100% but we do
>>>> offer a 30 day limited money back guarantee on all purchases, so if
>>>> there's an issue you can return for a full refund minus the cost of
>>>> shipping and any damages. You can find more details about our warranty
>>>> here: https://system76.com/warranty.
>>>>
>>>> I am also including a link to a support article that goes into detail
>>>> about using Windows on our systems:
>>>>
>>>> https://support.system76.com/articles/windows
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again and please let us know if you need anything else.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Bill"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That support article is actually very very good. Seems like a
>>>> trustworthy company.
>>>
>>> They're good but would cost more than a self-build I presume.
>>
>> Usually, desktops are less expensive if you buy them pre-built. They're
>> released a few articles on that already and shown that buying a
>> pre-built gaming machine, for example, will cost you less than building
>> one yourself _unless_ you already have a few parts and don't intend to
>> replace them.
>
>
> Since I initially used CPU video, I saved by building, more quality
> for the money, and when I did move to a video card I bought an
> inexpensive one.

I looked at the costs of decent GPUs on the PC and I don't blame you for
not paying what they're asking.

--
CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:

>>> Usually, desktops are less expensive if you buy them pre-built. They're
>>> released a few articles on that already and shown that buying a
>>> pre-built gaming machine, for example, will cost you less than building
>>> one yourself _unless_ you already have a few parts and don't intend to
>>> replace them.
>>
>> Since I initially used CPU video, I saved by building, more quality
>> for the money, and when I did move to a video card I bought an
>> inexpensive one.
>
>I looked at the costs of decent GPUs on the PC and I don't blame you for
>not paying what they're asking.

Buying a modern video card is very costly, but the one I got is not
expensive and delivers good performance, wouldn't handle a lot of
games, but that's irrelevant to me.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:

> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>
>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>
> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>
> It's got to be in the millions.

Enough to make a profitable business out of Windows? With so many other
vendors already struggling? Not likely.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 09:20:19 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> On 2025-01-08 01:34, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>
>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>
> Not really.

Think about what they *didn’t* say: they didn’t offer to preinstall
Windows for the customer, or even to include a copy of Windows in the box.
They don’t guarantee that Windows will even work.

So all the risk is up to the customer. It’s up to you to get your own copy
of Windows -- and remember, it can’t be an OEM copy, it’s got to be a full
retail-priced copy. And if it doesn’t work? Can you take your Windows copy
back to where you bought it and demand a refund? Good luck with getting
the shop to understand that there are x86-based machines out there that
are not fully Windows-compatible!

On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:

> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>
>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>
>
> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>
> It's got to be in the millions.

System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would
anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing
Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood
restaurant?

On 2025-01-08, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 09:20:19 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2025-01-08 01:34, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>>
>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>>
>> Not really.
>
> Think about what they *didn’t* say: they didn’t offer to preinstall
> Windows for the customer, or even to include a copy of Windows in the box.
> They don’t guarantee that Windows will even work.
>
> So all the risk is up to the customer. It’s up to you to get your own copy
> of Windows -- and remember, it can’t be an OEM copy, it’s got to be a full
> retail-priced copy. And if it doesn’t work? Can you take your Windows copy
> back to where you bought it and demand a refund? Good luck with getting
> the shop to understand that there are x86-based machines out there that
> are not fully Windows-compatible!

Imagine... one Open Source company treats their customers like EVERY Windows
based company. The "shame" of it all!

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2025-01-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>>
>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>>
>>
>> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>>
>> It's got to be in the millions.
>
> System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would
> anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing
> Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood
> restaurant?

DuFuS always clutches at straws in his lame attempts to denigrate Linux.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>>
>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>>
>> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>>
>> It's got to be in the millions.
>
> System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would
> anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing
> Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood
> restaurant?

Surf 'n' Turf

--
You can never do just one thing.
-- Hardin

CrudeSausage wrote:

>I looked at the costs of decent GPUs on the PC and I don't blame you for
>not paying what they're asking.

My future son-in-law has given me his GTX 1080 Ti, for my new PC
build. It's obviously far from new, but is still viable for many
modern games.

On Thu, 09 Jan 2025 07:06:10 -0600, chrisv wrote:

>
> My future son-in-law has given me his GTX 1080 Ti, for my new PC build.
> It's obviously far from new, but is still viable for many modern games.
>

Before you accept, you should look at the GPU specs which for this card
is the GP102 based on the Pascal architecture.

The GP102 has NVENC 4th Gen and NVDEC 8th Gen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_NVENC#Fourth_generation,_Pascal_GP10x

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Nvidia_PureVideo#The_eighth_generation_PureVideo_HD

The specs are not bad and with GNU/Linux ffmpeg can bring out the best.

On Microslop most software uses ffmpeg anyway because Microslop has nothing
to offer.

Anything before Pascal, however, should be rejected.

--
Hail Linux! Hail FOSS! Hail Stallman!

On 2025-01-09 03:48, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-01-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>>>
>>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>>>
>>> It's got to be in the millions.
>>
>> System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would
>> anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing
>> Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood
>> restaurant?
>
> DuFuS always clutches at straws in his lame attempts to denigrate Linux.

Admittedly, I don't see why a person intending to use Windows would
complain that System76 or ThinkPenguin isn't catering to them.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

On 2025-01-09 08:06, chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> I looked at the costs of decent GPUs on the PC and I don't blame you for
>> not paying what they're asking.
>
> My future son-in-law has given me his GTX 1080 Ti, for my new PC
> build. It's obviously far from new, but is still viable for many
> modern games.

I was using a much less powerful 970M until 2021 quite comfortably (with
some compromises). I imagine that there are lots of going which will run
quite well even to this day on the 1080Ti.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

On 1/9/2025 10:01 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2025-01-09 03:48, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-01-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>>>>
>>>> It's got to be in the millions.
>>>
>>> System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would
>>> anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing
>>> Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood
>>> restaurant?
>>
>> DuFuS always clutches at straws in his lame attempts to denigrate Linux.
>
> Admittedly, I don't see why a person intending to use Windows would
> complain that System76 or ThinkPenguin isn't catering to them.

I wasn't complaining. I was curious if they would sell a Windows
system. Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
would sell Linux preinstalls.

On 2025-01-09 11:11, DFS wrote:
> On 1/9/2025 10:01 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> On 2025-01-09 03:48, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2025-01-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's got to be in the millions.
>>>>
>>>> System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would
>>>> anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing
>>>> Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood
>>>> restaurant?
>>>
>>> DuFuS always clutches at straws in his lame attempts to denigrate Linux.
>>
>> Admittedly, I don't see why a person intending to use Windows would
>> complain that System76 or ThinkPenguin isn't catering to them.
>
>
> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
> would sell Linux preinstalls.

Each manufacturer specializes in a type of system. System76 proudly
specializes in Linux and even uses its own brand of the open-source
system. It would make no sense to ask them to bundle Linux the same way
that it would be weird to ask ASUS to make a Linux system when they sell
Windows-only machines. If there were no Linux alternative, I can imagine
asking ASUS to make an exception but otherwise it makes no sense.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:

> I wasn't complaining. I was curious if they would sell a Windows
> system. Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
> would sell Linux preinstalls.

And their answers? Dell has a number.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
linux-os

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> I wasn't complaining. I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>> system. Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>
>And their answers? Dell has a number.
>
>https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>linux-os

Not bad. Although Ubuntu has never been my preferred distro.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.