On 2024-09-14, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 09:03:55 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> Bullshit. Morgan Freeman (who grew up in Mississippi) said he never met
>> any racists until he went to Chicago.
>
> Billie Holiday summed it up. In the south they don't care how close you
> get as long as you don't get too high. In the north they don't care how
> high you get as long as you don't get too close.
>
> In practical terms a northern liberal will vote for Harris but doesn't
> want a black family moving in next door. I saw that in action growing up.
> My mother was very sympathetic to the plight of Negroes (correct term in
> that era) and when my father would call them niggers she would accuse him
> of being Hitler. However, when we had a flat to rent she handled the
> interviews. She was afraid if my father liked the family he would rent to
> Negroes. She also though any Negroe male over 5 years old was going to try
> to jump her bones. But, in the abstract and suitably far away...

I've seen these "liberals" in action. We had a salesman when I worked in
vending (in the 80s) who ignored the route men, except for one time when we
hired a black man. He made a point to go out to meet him, shake his hand,
pretend to be his friend — basically patronized the hell out of him. I'm
sure when he went home that night he made a point of telling his wife "I
talked to a man black today." Cringeworthy hypocrisy. Meanwhile the rest of
us just treated him like he was another one of us — a route man.

Talk is cheap. And most (so-called) "liberals" talk the talk but don't walk
the walk.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-09-14, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 09:16:32 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> And the Woke studios wonder why no one wants to watch their crap any
>> more. I don't (didn't) go to movies for blunt force propaganda and idiot
>> dialogue lectures. I went to escape from all that for a while. I used to
>> go to movies to be entertained, not bombarded with buckets of Woke
>> bullshit.
>
> It was an application of the boiling frog maneuver. Unfortunately the
> frogs noticed it was getting kind of hot in the pond.

The "frogs" couldn't help but notice, they were getting banged them over the
head with this Woke bullshit. The Woke morons kind of forgot why the water
is supposed to be *slowly* heated up.

Lack of proportion and lack of a sense of timing. The two great weaknesses
of the moron Woke Left.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 23:12:21 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> The "frogs" couldn't help but notice, they were getting banged them over
> the head with this Woke bullshit. The Woke morons kind of forgot why the
> water is supposed to be *slowly* heated up.

It's been slow. Christine Jorgenson was a curiosity in the '50s and made
the headlines. Gays and lesbians more or less were don't ask, don't tell
until the Stonewall riots in '69 when it became 'I'll tell you and you'll
damn well accept it'. Over the years people were more accepting but there
always is a contingent that has to push it a little further like a kid
figuring out how much they can get away with. Like the kid they get all
hurt when Mom finally goes ballistic.

And speaking of kids I think that was the proverbial straw, along with the
pronoun bullshit, and things like Levine.

Then there is the DEI thing. If you only watched movies and advertisements
you might get the impression the US is at least 50% black.

rbowman wrote:

>No they are not a monolith but prefacing every statement with 'the
>statistical probability that...' gets old.

Yeah, in the inner city, only about half of them aged 15-25 are
running around with guns.

-hh wrote:

>crime is often
>an economically-driven activity, so to try to determine the effect of
>race as a variable while failing to normalize the data by income results
>in incorrectly equating crime to whoever statistically is more likely to
>be poorer than other races (eg, blacks).

When you're raised by an ignorant single mother, you're probably going
to grow up poor. Successful groups don't do that, as a rule. They
have families. They go to school and learn.

It's black culture that's holding them down.

On 9/15/24 6:20 AM, chrisv wrote:
> -hh wrote:
>
>> crime is often
>> an economically-driven activity, so to try to determine the effect of
>> race as a variable while failing to normalize the data by income results
>> in incorrectly equating crime to whoever statistically is more likely to
>> be poorer than other races (eg, blacks).
>
> When you're raised by an ignorant single mother, you're probably going
> to grow up poor. Successful groups don't do that, as a rule. They
> have families. They go to school and learn.
>
> It's black culture that's holding them down.
>

Where that 'culture' was one of desperation, because of government
programs like redlining kept them from being able to become successful,
as well as higher jail penalties for crack cocaine, because ya know, the
white suburban kids used the powder form, not crack. Plus as has been
mentioned on COLA before, "Driving While Black" police targeting, etc.

But gosh golly, you're right: every non-white non-straight minority
group has had the opportunity of 100.0000% equality for decades! /s

-hh

On 9/14/24 10:57 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 23:12:21 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> The "frogs" couldn't help but notice, they were getting banged them over
>> the head with this Woke bullshit. The Woke morons kind of forgot why the
>> water is supposed to be *slowly* heated up.
>
> It's been slow. Christine Jorgenson was a curiosity in the '50s and made
> the headlines. Gays and lesbians more or less were don't ask, don't tell
> until the Stonewall riots in '69 when it became 'I'll tell you and you'll
> damn well accept it'.

Except that Stonewall was a response, not an provocation. They had been
suffering from regular police raids of their entertainment which was
systematic targeting them because they were gay & had had enough.

> Over the years people were more accepting but there
> always is a contingent that has to push it a little further like a kid
> figuring out how much they can get away with. Like the kid they get all
> hurt when Mom finally goes ballistic.

No, that analogy is false, because it isn't one kid asking for more: it
is many different kids coming forward, each saying "I was bullied too".

It's why 'gay' became LGB to acknowledge these others, and then as more
came forward, it added LGBQ, then LGBTQ, and today to LGBTQIA+.

> And speaking of kids I think that was the proverbial straw, along with the
> pronoun bullshit, and things like Levine.
>
> Then there is the DEI thing. If you only watched movies and advertisements
> you might get the impression the US is at least 50% black.

Stop looking at only your old white neighbors, because the US is already
40% nonwhite on a national level, and already effectively 50%-50% for
the population under age 50.

Plus the next time that you go for medical care, pay attention to who's
taking care of you because Nationally, healthcare professionals are
increasingly minorities now too; case in point:

Dental Assistants: 49.5%
Health Technicians: 50%
Medical Assistants: 54.2%
Nursing Assistants: 57%
Personal Care Aids: 58.1%
Home Health Aids: 60.2%

<https://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2023/healthcare-occupations-in-2022/>

-hh

On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 05:14:08 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> rbowman wrote:
>
>>No they are not a monolith but prefacing every statement with 'the
>>statistical probability that...' gets old.
>
> Yeah, in the inner city, only about half of them aged 15-25 are running
> around with guns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXUhLECqTik

On 9/14/24 6:58 PM, RonB wrote:
> On 2024-09-14, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>> -hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 9/13/24 5:32 PM, RonB wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> This is why one needs to understand the data and to normalize it
>>> suitably if you're going to try to make comparison claims.
>>
>> Most people don't understand multifactor analysis. Can't blame them, but
>> they should STFU.
>
> People with some common sense know what's bullshit when they hear it. As
> they say, figures don't lie, but liars figure.
>

Its always ironic when the one who least understands multifactor
analysis self-identifies themself.

They also had problems with word problems in elementary school. /s

-hh

On 9/15/2024 7:20 PM, -hh wrote:
> On 9/14/24 6:58 PM, RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-09-14, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>> -hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On 9/13/24 5:32 PM, RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> This is why one needs to understand the data and to normalize it
>>>> suitably if you're going to try to make comparison claims.
>>>
>>> Most people don't understand multifactor analysis. Can't blame them, but
>>> they should STFU.
>>
>> People with some common sense know what's bullshit when they hear it. As
>> they say, figures don't lie, but liars figure.
>>
>
> Its always ironic when the one who least understands multifactor
> analysis self-identifies themself.
>
> They also had problems with word problems in elementary school. /s

I aced a graduate course in linear regression analysis (but it was 34
years ago).

I could have a frickin' field day with a detailed American crime
database going back to the 1950s. Sadly it wouldn't include unsolved
crimes, which is a significant percent.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 19:55:56 -0400, DFS wrote:

> I aced a graduate course in linear regression analysis (but it was 34
> years ago).
>
> I could have a frickin' field day with a detailed American crime
> database going back to the 1950s. Sadly it wouldn't include unsolved
> crimes, which is a significant percent.

Good luck with that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Incident-Based_Reporting_System

Unsaid in the wiki article some agencies don't report since they can't
figure out how to submit the data without it getting rejected. The company
was divided into Computer Aided Dispatch (CAD) and the Records Management
System (RMS). There wasn't a lot of crossover other than CAD exporting the
incident information to DB2, including skeleton reports that would be done
after action. However the RMS programmers were close enough to hear them
bitching about doing the NIBRS export. Each state had its quirks since
their incident codes didn't match the Feds classifications, and yearly
tweaks were required as the format was 'improved'. NIBRS was adopted since
UCR sucked so much. Short answer: there ain't no such animal nationally.
Chicago is actually one of the better ones.

I did some analysis of the records I had available. A month's worth for a
busy site would be about 40,000 incidents. What I did was mostly
geographical since on the CAD side while you know the persons involved the
victims and perpetrators are sorted out later, along with any legal
action. That's all RMS.

Most of the results were not surprising. Time of day and location were the
heavy hitters. Some clusters could be explained with further research.
Drug related incidents occur around hospitals for example. Bar rooms tend
to be frequent flyers. Managers love that sort of thing but any beat cop
with an IQ over 100 knew where the shit holes and shit birds were. Whether
they were allowed to take proactive measures is another story.

I might add that some jurisdictions have a tendency to under report. Who
want's to be known as the murder capitol of the year? NYC is good at that
game.

On 9/15/24 7:55 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 9/15/2024 7:20 PM, -hh wrote:
>> On 9/14/24 6:58 PM, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-09-14, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>>> -hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/13/24 5:32 PM, RonB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is why one needs to understand the data and to normalize it
>>>>> suitably if you're going to try to make comparison claims.
>>>>
>>>> Most people don't understand multifactor analysis. Can't blame them,
>>>> but
>>>> they should STFU.
>>>
>>> People with some common sense know what's bullshit when they hear it. As
>>> they say, figures don't lie, but liars figure.
>>>
>>
>> Its always ironic when the one who least understands multifactor
>> analysis self-identifies themself.
>>
>> They also had problems with word problems in elementary school. /s
>
> I aced a graduate course in linear regression analysis (but it was 34
> years ago).

If it was graduate level, did it address multivariate by going Bayesian?

> I could have a frickin' field day with a detailed American crime
> database going back to the 1950s.  Sadly it wouldn't include unsolved
> crimes, which is a significant percent.

The US crime database has shortcomings in being incomplete reporting;
consider a regression on county reporting rate vs county population.

-hh

On 9/16/2024 7:02 AM, -hh wrote:
> On 9/15/24 7:55 PM, DFS wrote:
>> On 9/15/2024 7:20 PM, -hh wrote:
>>> On 9/14/24 6:58 PM, RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-09-14, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>>>> -hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/13/24 5:32 PM, RonB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is why one needs to understand the data and to normalize it
>>>>>> suitably if you're going to try to make comparison claims.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most people don't understand multifactor analysis. Can't blame
>>>>> them, but
>>>>> they should STFU.
>>>>
>>>> People with some common sense know what's bullshit when they hear
>>>> it. As
>>>> they say, figures don't lie, but liars figure.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Its always ironic when the one who least understands multifactor
>>> analysis self-identifies themself.
>>>
>>> They also had problems with word problems in elementary school. /s
>>
>> I aced a graduate course in linear regression analysis (but it was 34
>> years ago).
>
>
> If it was graduate level, did it address multivariate by going Bayesian?

I don't remember Bayesian stats specifically, but I do recall working on
simple and multiple regression models, autocorrelation, ridge
regression, and multicollinearity.

This was our text:

https://imgur.com/a/rwTe255

1st Edition 1982

Being an organized hoarder, I have the 1990 course materials and my
notebook in banker boxes downstairs labeled 'Grad School'.

>> I could have a frickin' field day with a detailed American crime
>> database going back to the 1950s.  Sadly it wouldn't include unsolved
>> crimes, which is a significant percent.
>
>
> The US crime database has shortcomings in being incomplete reporting;
> consider a regression on county reporting rate vs county population.
Or just simply denying crime happened:

"Atlanta understated crime for years"

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna4332140

-hh wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>> -hh wrote:
>>
>>> crime is often
>>> an economically-driven activity, so to try to determine the effect of
>>> race as a variable while failing to normalize the data by income results
>>> in incorrectly equating crime to whoever statistically is more likely to
>>> be poorer than other races (eg, blacks).
>>
>> When you're raised by an ignorant single mother, you're probably going
>> to grow up poor. Successful groups don't do that, as a rule. They
>> have families. They go to school and learn.
>>
>> It's black culture that's holding them down.
>
>Where that 'culture' was one of desperation, because of government
>programs like redlining kept them from being able to become successful,
>as well as higher jail penalties for crack cocaine, because ya know, the
>white suburban kids used the powder form, not crack. Plus as has been
>mentioned on COLA before, "Driving While Black" police targeting, etc.

Probably the worst thing done to them was the leftists' Welfare State,
paying for all the kids they want, but not if the father is in home.

That doesn't absolve them of the responsibility to have kids only if
they the can support them, of course.

>But gosh golly, you're right: every non-white non-straight minority
>group has had the opportunity of 100.0000% equality for decades! /s

Funny how so many minority immigrants do well for themselves.

The opportunities are there. Preferred hiring of blacks has been a
thing for decades, if only they would get comparably educated.

-hh wrote:

>> Then there is the DEI thing. If you only watched movies and advertisements
>> you might get the impression the US is at least 50% black.
>
>Stop looking at only your old white neighbors, because the US is already
>40% nonwhite on a national level, and already effectively 50%-50% for
>the population under age 50.

He didn't say non white. He said black. It's unusual to see asians
or hispanics in advertizing. Blacks are hugely over represented.
It's sickening.

On 9/16/24 5:19 PM, chrisv wrote:
> -hh wrote:
>
>>> Then there is the DEI thing. If you only watched movies and advertisements
>>> you might get the impression the US is at least 50% black.
>>
>> Stop looking at only your old white neighbors, because the US is already
>> 40% nonwhite on a national level, and already effectively 50%-50% for
>> the population under age 50.
>
> He didn't say non white. He said black.

Yes, I know, but "the whole DEI thing" is more broad than merely
fixating on only one demographic group: it is push-back on all groups
and all types which don't neatly conform to the narrow confines of
white+ straight+ single-earner+ family "1950s white picket fence".

> It's unusual to see asians or hispanics in advertizing. Blacks
> are hugely over represented.

I see Hispanics and Asians quite regularly in advertising.

I've never really paid attention to what the pedantic percentages are in
advertising copy, but of course, you'll promptly enlighten us with some
actual analysis to review on this "over represented" claim. Preferably
ones which also take into due account what the role of advertising is,
and what that means contextually when presenting small groups.

> It's sickening.
>

And just why is seeing blacks "sickening" to you?

Is it 'because they should know their place'...or something like that?

If so, please let us know how you personally chose your race, your
height, your sex, your eye color, hair color...because that would be a
huge scientific breakthrough that German Nazi's tried 80+ years ago.

-hh

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 16:15:16 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> Probably the worst thing done to them was the leftists' Welfare State,
> paying for all the kids they want, but not if the father is in home.

There is that cliche about 'safety net, not a hammock'. If you start with
the 'Great Society' in '65 there have been about three generations of
hammock dwellers. As Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. said in the Buck v. Bell
ruling "Three generations of imbeciles are enough".

That was 1927. Since the New Deal the emphasis has been on dragging along
those who have no function in society. I'll emphasize that taking
demographics into account in absolute numbers that means more white trash
than black trash. I don't know if it all stems from "Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth" and similar sentiments that have
permeated the secular world.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 16:19:19 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> -hh wrote:
>
>>> Then there is the DEI thing. If you only watched movies and
>>> advertisements you might get the impression the US is at least 50%
>>> black.
>>
>>Stop looking at only your old white neighbors, because the US is already
>>40% nonwhite on a national level, and already effectively 50%-50% for
>>the population under age 50.
>
> He didn't say non white. He said black. It's unusual to see asians or
> hispanics in advertizing. Blacks are hugely over represented. It's
> sickening.

I don't have much choice of looking at my white neighbors since in this
state blacks comprise 0.6% of the population. There are more Asians at
0.9%. Natives are 6.7% but they are mostly a danger to themselves.

Hispanics aren't broken out separately. Like New Mexico most have lived in
the state for generations so 'white Hispanic' is as meaningful as 'white
German'.

-hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> <snippage>
>
> If so, please let us know how you personally chose your race, your
> height, your sex, your eye color, hair color...because that would be a
> huge scientific breakthrough that German Nazi's tried 80+ years ago.

Off topic but amusing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfWfxdDsHJM

De Phazz "Jim the Jinn"

"I can make you travel through time and space
I can change your sex I can change your race"

De Phazz, cool and often funny lounge music.

(Not as "out there" as Richard Cheese, though)

--
Revolution, n.:
A form of government abroad.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 16:15:16 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>
>> Probably the worst thing done to them was the leftists' Welfare State,
>> paying for all the kids they want, but not if the father is in home.
>
> There is that cliche about 'safety net, not a hammock'. If you start with
> the 'Great Society' in '65 there have been about three generations of
> hammock dwellers. As Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. said in the Buck v. Bell
> ruling "Three generations of imbeciles are enough".
>
> That was 1927. Since the New Deal the emphasis has been on dragging along
> those who have no function in society. I'll emphasize that taking
> demographics into account in absolute numbers that means more white trash
> than black trash. I don't know if it all stems from "Blessed are the meek,
> for they will inherit the earth" and similar sentiments that have
> permeated the secular world.

For a good read, try Philip Jose Farmer's "Riders of the Purple Wage".

--
The world has many unintentionally cruel mechanisms that are not
designed for people who walk on their hands.
-- John Irving, "The World According to Garp"

On 9/16/24 9:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 16:19:19 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>
>> -hh wrote:
>>
>>>> Then there is the DEI thing. If you only watched movies and
>>>> advertisements you might get the impression the US is at least 50%
>>>> black.
>>>
>>> Stop looking at only your old white neighbors, because the US is already
>>> 40% nonwhite on a national level, and already effectively 50%-50% for
>>> the population under age 50.
>>
>> He didn't say non white. He said black. It's unusual to see asians or
>> hispanics in advertizing. Blacks are hugely over represented. It's
>> sickening.
>
> I don't have much choice of looking at my white neighbors since in this
> state blacks comprise 0.6% of the population. There are more Asians at
> 0.9%. Natives are 6.7% but they are mostly a danger to themselves.

Your white neighbors?

You're in Montana ... with a total population of just 1M spread across
94M acres, you effectively don't have neighbors.

> Hispanics aren't broken out separately.

4.5%

> Like New Mexico most have lived in the state for generations
> so 'white Hispanic' is as meaningful as 'white German'.

Given how Italians weren't even considered to be white for US
immigration policies, white Hispanics are differentiated too.

-hh

On 9/16/2024 5:19 PM, shitv wrote:

> He didn't say non white. He said black. It's unusual to see asians
> or hispanics in advertizing. Blacks are hugely over represented.
> It's sickening.

Other side of your piehole for the last 5+ years:

"DFS is a lying POS and a racist."

"DFS is a hateful racist"

"the scumbag racist DFS"

"He's [DFS] a disgusting person. A racist."

You're not man enough to apologize to me (or anyone else) of course.

I note you could've said 'unrealistic' or 'left-wing bias' but you chose
'sickening'.

So it looks like you've evolved, turd. Congrats.

That's what happens eventually when you compare your lived experiences
to the false portrayals of jigaboos the media crams down your throat.

On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 06:41:28 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> For a good read, try Philip Jose Farmer's "Riders of the Purple Wage".

I've got vague memories of trying to read Farmer back in the day and
failing. The wiki synopsis sounds interesting except for the 'Finnegan's
Wake' component.