Le 16-08-2024, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> a écrit :
>
> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
> look pretty.

A lot of beginners stay with the defaults. Once they understood they can
adapt, they do. And when they do, they try a lot of things. But, soon,
they stay stable and stop adapting. The people who try to make it looks
pretty are not the real beginners. And once they do it, they don't stay
in that state for long. Of course, you'll find some guys who spend all
of their time to improve the way their desktop looks. But they are not
the majority. A lot of screenshots I saw who looked very nice are
unusable in real life. It's like FF/NV/LP/FR/whatever who spend all of
his time to compile his kernel. He's not the only one (even if he's the
only one here), but he's not among the majority.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

vallor wrote:

>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
>> look pretty.
>
><sigh> Here we go again...
>
>This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book, and
>using the Unix typesetting tools of yore to get the job done faster
>than with a wysiwyg editor.
>
>Most people who _try_ Linux would be newcomers, who probably spend
>"most of their time" on support forums...if needed.

I never got into the "pretty desktop" thing. It gets covered up by
the app window anyway! That said, I do use my daughter's cool art as
a background.

--
"But with no barrier to entry, how are the bad [Linux distros] kept
out?" - "-hh", putting his ignorance on display

On 2024-08-16 10:10 p.m., pothead wrote:
> On 2024-08-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 20:26:40 +0000, Ulysses wrote:
>>
>>> Try 1984 you might learn something because you are currently living
>>> it.Spend less time trying to make it look pretty and more time trying to
>>> understand it.
>>
>> I have a sneaking suspicion I read '1984' a bit before you.
>
> Same here.
> Circa 1972 for me.
> Same for Animal Farm and Catcher In the Rye.
> I suspect you have me beat though.

Animal Farm is one of the best books I've read; Catcher in the Rye is
definitely the worst.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-08-16 10:28 p.m., vallor wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 21:54:50 -0400, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote in
> <NpTvO.29578$8UD7.24479@fx01.iad>:
>
>> On 2024-08-16 8:56 p.m., vallor wrote:
>>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 17:01:09 -0400, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote
>>> in <r6PvO.330854$gJuc.106524@fx10.iad>:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-08-16 4:26 p.m., Ulysses wrote:
>>>>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in
>>>>> news:v9nf31$1dkqg$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 12:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:00:00 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That PeachPuff background would have burned your eyes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You must have real trouble reading black text on white paper.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not really, but on screens I've always preferred light text on
>>>>>>>> dark background.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then again, I tried the PeachPuff background when I read your post
>>>>>>>> in a dark room, so it wasn't the best place to suddenly expose
>>>>>>>> ones eyes to that!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I get to do unexpected A/B testing. I use my Fire HD 10 tablet
>>>>>>> mostly for reading Kindle books, with black text on a white
>>>>>>> background. When the charge gets down to 20% it automatically goes
>>>>>>> to white on black. I immediately go to Settings for I can override
>>>>>>> the power saving mode until I get it on a charger. I can read the
>>>>>>> white on black with no problem but I don't like it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do agree when I wake up at 4AM and decide to read for a while the
>>>>>>> glaring white tablet is a shock on my eyes until my pupils get with
>>>>>>> the program.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've always used FB Reader on my tablets. Fully configurable. I use
>>>>>> black on light grey mostly, and at night slide my finger down on the
>>>>>> left to reduce the brightness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometimes I'll find HTML novels (e.g. Edgar Rice Burroughs) on
>>>>>> Gutenberg, and they're usually kind of a dark brown font on cream
>>>>>> yellow pages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Try 1984 you might learn something because you are currently living
>>>>> it.Spend less time trying to make it look pretty and more time trying
>>>>> to understand it.
>>>>
>>>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making
>>>> it look pretty.
>>>
>>> <sigh> Here we go again...
>>>
>>> This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book, and
>>> using the Unix typesetting tools of yore to get the job done faster
>>> than with a wysiwyg editor.
>>>
>>> Most people who _try_ Linux would be newcomers, who probably spend
>>> "most of their time" on support forums...if needed.
>>>
>>> 🧘️
>>
>> Notice the verb _try_. It is true of people who are just getting
>> acquainted with it. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're not
>> _trying_ Linux, are you?
>
> So how long do you think "most people who try Linux" will spend
> "most of their time making it look pretty", as you say?
>
> For example: how long did you spend yourself?

I think that most people spend the first three days making it look just
right. Once they're content with the aesthetics, they try to use it as
they would a regular Windows or Mac computer. That's where they start
noticing that some hardware isn't operating as it should (less of a
problem than it used to be) or that the software available doesn't
necessarily meet their needs. Within the first week, they encounter the
more serious bugs and look for ways to either squash or circumvent them.

However, I will say this much: if a person's first encounter with
computing is in Linux, then they are likely never going to desire
Windows or MacOS. For example, if Linux had been available in 1991 on a
hand-me-down computer and I not been exposed to either Windows or Mac
until say 1992, there is a strong chance that I would never have even
wanted to use the commercial product. That first year would have allowed
or any other user to get accustomed to the environment to a point that
Windows or MacOS's weaknesses become a lot more evident. Because the
opposite happens, people are left thinking that they are missing out on
something that Microsoft or Apple is offering them.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-08-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-08-16 4:26 p.m., Ulysses wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in
>> news:v9nf31$1dkqg$9@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 12:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:00:00 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That PeachPuff background would have burned your eyes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You must have real trouble reading black text on white paper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really, but on screens I've always preferred light text on dark
>>>>> background.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then again, I tried the PeachPuff background when I read your post
>>>>> in a dark room, so it wasn't the best place to suddenly expose ones
>>>>> eyes to that!
>>>>
>>>> I get to do unexpected A/B testing. I use my Fire HD 10 tablet mostly
>>>> for reading Kindle books, with black text on a white background. When
>>>> the charge gets down to 20% it automatically goes to white on black.
>>>> I immediately go to Settings for I can override the power saving mode
>>>> until I get it on a charger. I can read the white on black with no
>>>> problem but I don't like it.
>>>>
>>>> I do agree when I wake up at 4AM and decide to read for a while the
>>>> glaring white tablet is a shock on my eyes until my pupils get with
>>>> the program.
>>>
>>> I've always used FB Reader on my tablets. Fully configurable. I use
>>> black on light grey mostly, and at night slide my finger down on the
>>> left to reduce the brightness.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I'll find HTML novels (e.g. Edgar Rice Burroughs) on
>>> Gutenberg, and they're usually kind of a dark brown font on cream
>>> yellow pages.
>>>
>>
>> Try 1984 you might learn something because you are currently living
>> it.Spend less time trying to make it look pretty and more time trying to
>> understand it.
>
> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
> look pretty.

Yeah because only Linux users change their wallpaper. But, I guess it's true
that Linux is much more customizable than Windows. I consider that a
feature, even though my customization usually just involves changing the
wallpaper.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-08-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-08-16 8:56 p.m., vallor wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 17:01:09 -0400, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote in
>> <r6PvO.330854$gJuc.106524@fx10.iad>:
>>
>>> On 2024-08-16 4:26 p.m., Ulysses wrote:
>>>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in
>>>> news:v9nf31$1dkqg$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 12:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:00:00 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That PeachPuff background would have burned your eyes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You must have real trouble reading black text on white paper.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not really, but on screens I've always preferred light text on dark
>>>>>>> background.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then again, I tried the PeachPuff background when I read your post
>>>>>>> in a dark room, so it wasn't the best place to suddenly expose ones
>>>>>>> eyes to that!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I get to do unexpected A/B testing. I use my Fire HD 10 tablet mostly
>>>>>> for reading Kindle books, with black text on a white background. When
>>>>>> the charge gets down to 20% it automatically goes to white on black.
>>>>>> I immediately go to Settings for I can override the power saving mode
>>>>>> until I get it on a charger. I can read the white on black with no
>>>>>> problem but I don't like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do agree when I wake up at 4AM and decide to read for a while the
>>>>>> glaring white tablet is a shock on my eyes until my pupils get with
>>>>>> the program.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always used FB Reader on my tablets. Fully configurable. I use
>>>>> black on light grey mostly, and at night slide my finger down on the
>>>>> left to reduce the brightness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes I'll find HTML novels (e.g. Edgar Rice Burroughs) on
>>>>> Gutenberg, and they're usually kind of a dark brown font on cream
>>>>> yellow pages.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Try 1984 you might learn something because you are currently living
>>>> it.Spend less time trying to make it look pretty and more time trying
>>>> to understand it.
>>>
>>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
>>> look pretty.
>>
>> <sigh> Here we go again...
>>
>> This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book, and
>> using the Unix typesetting tools of yore to get the job done faster
>> than with a wysiwyg editor.
>>
>> Most people who _try_ Linux would be newcomers, who probably spend
>> "most of their time" on support forums...if needed.
>>
>> 🧘️
>
> Notice the verb _try_. It is true of people who are just getting
> acquainted with it. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're not
> _trying_ Linux, are you?

Not speaking for anyone else, but I *try* different versions of Linux from
time to time just to see what they're all about.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-08-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-08-16 10:28 p.m., vallor wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 21:54:50 -0400, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote in
>> <NpTvO.29578$8UD7.24479@fx01.iad>:
>>
>>> On 2024-08-16 8:56 p.m., vallor wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 17:01:09 -0400, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote
>>>> in <r6PvO.330854$gJuc.106524@fx10.iad>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-08-16 4:26 p.m., Ulysses wrote:
>>>>>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in
>>>>>> news:v9nf31$1dkqg$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 12:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:00:00 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That PeachPuff background would have burned your eyes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You must have real trouble reading black text on white paper.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not really, but on screens I've always preferred light text on
>>>>>>>>> dark background.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then again, I tried the PeachPuff background when I read your post
>>>>>>>>> in a dark room, so it wasn't the best place to suddenly expose
>>>>>>>>> ones eyes to that!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I get to do unexpected A/B testing. I use my Fire HD 10 tablet
>>>>>>>> mostly for reading Kindle books, with black text on a white
>>>>>>>> background. When the charge gets down to 20% it automatically goes
>>>>>>>> to white on black. I immediately go to Settings for I can override
>>>>>>>> the power saving mode until I get it on a charger. I can read the
>>>>>>>> white on black with no problem but I don't like it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do agree when I wake up at 4AM and decide to read for a while the
>>>>>>>> glaring white tablet is a shock on my eyes until my pupils get with
>>>>>>>> the program.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've always used FB Reader on my tablets. Fully configurable. I use
>>>>>>> black on light grey mostly, and at night slide my finger down on the
>>>>>>> left to reduce the brightness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sometimes I'll find HTML novels (e.g. Edgar Rice Burroughs) on
>>>>>>> Gutenberg, and they're usually kind of a dark brown font on cream
>>>>>>> yellow pages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try 1984 you might learn something because you are currently living
>>>>>> it.Spend less time trying to make it look pretty and more time trying
>>>>>> to understand it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making
>>>>> it look pretty.
>>>>
>>>> <sigh> Here we go again...
>>>>
>>>> This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book, and
>>>> using the Unix typesetting tools of yore to get the job done faster
>>>> than with a wysiwyg editor.
>>>>
>>>> Most people who _try_ Linux would be newcomers, who probably spend
>>>> "most of their time" on support forums...if needed.
>>>>
>>>> 🧘️
>>>
>>> Notice the verb _try_. It is true of people who are just getting
>>> acquainted with it. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're not
>>> _trying_ Linux, are you?
>>
>> So how long do you think "most people who try Linux" will spend
>> "most of their time making it look pretty", as you say?
>>
>> For example: how long did you spend yourself?
>
> I think that most people spend the first three days making it look just
> right. Once they're content with the aesthetics, they try to use it as
> they would a regular Windows or Mac computer. That's where they start
> noticing that some hardware isn't operating as it should (less of a
> problem than it used to be) or that the software available doesn't
> necessarily meet their needs. Within the first week, they encounter the
> more serious bugs and look for ways to either squash or circumvent them.

I think you're mistaken about taking three days. If it takes that long to
customize your new Linux install, you probably have no business using a
computer at all.

As far as hardware not operating as it should... not everyone wants to play
Windows games (using Wine) on Linux computers. For about 18 years I've never
had "serious hardware problems" on my Linux machines — and I've used many
Linux computers with several Linux distributions. I'm guessing 95% of your
issues with Linux is in trying to use Linux to run Windows games. Probably
with a nVidia video chip.

> However, I will say this much: if a person's first encounter with
> computing is in Linux, then they are likely never going to desire
> Windows or MacOS. For example, if Linux had been available in 1991 on a
> hand-me-down computer and I not been exposed to either Windows or Mac
> until say 1992, there is a strong chance that I would never have even
> wanted to use the commercial product. That first year would have allowed
> or any other user to get accustomed to the environment to a point that
> Windows or MacOS's weaknesses become a lot more evident. Because the
> opposite happens, people are left thinking that they are missing out on
> something that Microsoft or Apple is offering them.

I'm missing out on a lot of things Windows has to offer. Viruses, malware,
BSODs, obnoxious ads, calls to "home," hosed up updates, the Registry file
and bitrot, to name a few.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-08-17, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
> Le 16-08-2024, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> a écrit :
>>
>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
>> look pretty.
>
> A lot of beginners stay with the defaults. Once they understood they can
> adapt, they do. And when they do, they try a lot of things. But, soon,
> they stay stable and stop adapting. ...

Yep. I usually change the wallpaper these days. That's about it.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-08-17 7:20 a.m., Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 16-08-2024, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> a écrit :
>>
>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
>> look pretty.
>
> A lot of beginners stay with the defaults. Once they understood they can
> adapt, they do. And when they do, they try a lot of things. But, soon,
> they stay stable and stop adapting. The people who try to make it looks
> pretty are not the real beginners. And once they do it, they don't stay
> in that state for long. Of course, you'll find some guys who spend all
> of their time to improve the way their desktop looks. But they are not
> the majority. A lot of screenshots I saw who looked very nice are
> unusable in real life. It's like FF/NV/LP/FR/whatever who spend all of
> his time to compile his kernel. He's not the only one (even if he's the
> only one here), but he's not among the majority.

Larry Pietraskiewicz spending all of his time re-compiling the kernel
for a potential 1% increase in speed demonstrates how little there is
going on in his life.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-08-17, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> vallor wrote:
>
>>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
>>> look pretty.
>>
>><sigh> Here we go again...
>>
>>This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book, and
>>using the Unix typesetting tools of yore to get the job done faster
>>than with a wysiwyg editor.
>>
>>Most people who _try_ Linux would be newcomers, who probably spend
>>"most of their time" on support forums...if needed.
>
> I never got into the "pretty desktop" thing. It gets covered up by
> the app window anyway! That said, I do use my daughter's cool art as
> a background.

Exactly how I think of the "pretty desktop" thing. I usually try to find
fairly dark wallpaper because I like to keep the glare down when using a
computer at night.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-08-16, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
> Ulysses wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in
>> news:v9nf31$1dkqg$9@dont-email.me:
>>>> the program.
>>>
>>> I've always used FB Reader on my tablets. Fully configurable. I use
>>> black on light grey mostly, and at night slide my finger down on the
>>> left to reduce the brightness.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I'll find HTML novels (e.g. Edgar Rice Burroughs) on
>>> Gutenberg, and they're usually kind of a dark brown font on cream
>>> yellow pages.
>>
>> Try 1984 you might learn something because you are currently living
>> it.Spend less time trying to make it look pretty and more time trying to
>> understand it.
>
>:-D I read 1984 long ago, Odysseus. Spare me your angst. Life goes on.
> In the long run, we are all dead.

But I would rather not live like a slave while I'm alive.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-08-17 8:56 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-08-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-08-16 4:26 p.m., Ulysses wrote:
>>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in
>>> news:v9nf31$1dkqg$9@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 12:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:00:00 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That PeachPuff background would have burned your eyes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You must have real trouble reading black text on white paper.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really, but on screens I've always preferred light text on dark
>>>>>> background.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then again, I tried the PeachPuff background when I read your post
>>>>>> in a dark room, so it wasn't the best place to suddenly expose ones
>>>>>> eyes to that!
>>>>>
>>>>> I get to do unexpected A/B testing. I use my Fire HD 10 tablet mostly
>>>>> for reading Kindle books, with black text on a white background. When
>>>>> the charge gets down to 20% it automatically goes to white on black.
>>>>> I immediately go to Settings for I can override the power saving mode
>>>>> until I get it on a charger. I can read the white on black with no
>>>>> problem but I don't like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do agree when I wake up at 4AM and decide to read for a while the
>>>>> glaring white tablet is a shock on my eyes until my pupils get with
>>>>> the program.
>>>>
>>>> I've always used FB Reader on my tablets. Fully configurable. I use
>>>> black on light grey mostly, and at night slide my finger down on the
>>>> left to reduce the brightness.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes I'll find HTML novels (e.g. Edgar Rice Burroughs) on
>>>> Gutenberg, and they're usually kind of a dark brown font on cream
>>>> yellow pages.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Try 1984 you might learn something because you are currently living
>>> it.Spend less time trying to make it look pretty and more time trying to
>>> understand it.
>>
>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
>> look pretty.
>
> Yeah because only Linux users change their wallpaper. But, I guess it's true
> that Linux is much more customizable than Windows. I consider that a
> feature, even though my customization usually just involves changing the
> wallpaper.

I think the reason that most people spend that first few days making
Linux look pretty is because they can. The very fact that the operating
system allows them to do something that has become impossible in both
Windows and MacOS is refreshing. KDE, in particular, is ridiculously
customizable and I don't blame people for wanting to enable wobbly
windows and many of the other effects.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-08-17 9:06 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-08-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-08-16 10:28 p.m., vallor wrote:
>>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 21:54:50 -0400, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote in
>>> <NpTvO.29578$8UD7.24479@fx01.iad>:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-08-16 8:56 p.m., vallor wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 17:01:09 -0400, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote
>>>>> in <r6PvO.330854$gJuc.106524@fx10.iad>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-08-16 4:26 p.m., Ulysses wrote:
>>>>>>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:v9nf31$1dkqg$9@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 12:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:00:00 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That PeachPuff background would have burned your eyes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You must have real trouble reading black text on white paper.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not really, but on screens I've always preferred light text on
>>>>>>>>>> dark background.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then again, I tried the PeachPuff background when I read your post
>>>>>>>>>> in a dark room, so it wasn't the best place to suddenly expose
>>>>>>>>>> ones eyes to that!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I get to do unexpected A/B testing. I use my Fire HD 10 tablet
>>>>>>>>> mostly for reading Kindle books, with black text on a white
>>>>>>>>> background. When the charge gets down to 20% it automatically goes
>>>>>>>>> to white on black. I immediately go to Settings for I can override
>>>>>>>>> the power saving mode until I get it on a charger. I can read the
>>>>>>>>> white on black with no problem but I don't like it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do agree when I wake up at 4AM and decide to read for a while the
>>>>>>>>> glaring white tablet is a shock on my eyes until my pupils get with
>>>>>>>>> the program.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've always used FB Reader on my tablets. Fully configurable. I use
>>>>>>>> black on light grey mostly, and at night slide my finger down on the
>>>>>>>> left to reduce the brightness.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sometimes I'll find HTML novels (e.g. Edgar Rice Burroughs) on
>>>>>>>> Gutenberg, and they're usually kind of a dark brown font on cream
>>>>>>>> yellow pages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try 1984 you might learn something because you are currently living
>>>>>>> it.Spend less time trying to make it look pretty and more time trying
>>>>>>> to understand it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making
>>>>>> it look pretty.
>>>>>
>>>>> <sigh> Here we go again...
>>>>>
>>>>> This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book, and
>>>>> using the Unix typesetting tools of yore to get the job done faster
>>>>> than with a wysiwyg editor.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most people who _try_ Linux would be newcomers, who probably spend
>>>>> "most of their time" on support forums...if needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> 🧘️
>>>>
>>>> Notice the verb _try_. It is true of people who are just getting
>>>> acquainted with it. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're not
>>>> _trying_ Linux, are you?
>>>
>>> So how long do you think "most people who try Linux" will spend
>>> "most of their time making it look pretty", as you say?
>>>
>>> For example: how long did you spend yourself?
>>
>> I think that most people spend the first three days making it look just
>> right. Once they're content with the aesthetics, they try to use it as
>> they would a regular Windows or Mac computer. That's where they start
>> noticing that some hardware isn't operating as it should (less of a
>> problem than it used to be) or that the software available doesn't
>> necessarily meet their needs. Within the first week, they encounter the
>> more serious bugs and look for ways to either squash or circumvent them.
>
> I think you're mistaken about taking three days. If it takes that long to
> customize your new Linux install, you probably have no business using a
> computer at all.
>
> As far as hardware not operating as it should... not everyone wants to play
> Windows games (using Wine) on Linux computers. For about 18 years I've never
> had "serious hardware problems" on my Linux machines — and I've used many
> Linux computers with several Linux distributions. I'm guessing 95% of your
> issues with Linux is in trying to use Linux to run Windows games. Probably
> with a nVidia video chip.

It has nothing to do with the games. I was quite willing to sacrifice
most of my library and play games made for Linux when I became serious
about moving to the operating system completely. My problems seem to
stem from the fact that my hardware always has an NVIDIA chip. When my
brother came to me asking me to install Ubuntu on his all-AMD machine a
few years ago (Windows was ridiculously slow on it), everything worked
beautifully out of the box.

>> However, I will say this much: if a person's first encounter with
>> computing is in Linux, then they are likely never going to desire
>> Windows or MacOS. For example, if Linux had been available in 1991 on a
>> hand-me-down computer and I not been exposed to either Windows or Mac
>> until say 1992, there is a strong chance that I would never have even
>> wanted to use the commercial product. That first year would have allowed
>> or any other user to get accustomed to the environment to a point that
>> Windows or MacOS's weaknesses become a lot more evident. Because the
>> opposite happens, people are left thinking that they are missing out on
>> something that Microsoft or Apple is offering them.
>
> I'm missing out on a lot of things Windows has to offer. Viruses, malware,
> BSODs, obnoxious ads, calls to "home," hosed up updates, the Registry file
> and bitrot, to name a few.

You're not wrong about any of that. It's part of why I will always have
a fondness for Linux. However, its move toward wokeness is pushing me away.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote at 17:46 this Wednesday (GMT):
> On 14 Aug 2024 08:07:10 GMT, vallor wrote:
>
>> My xterm background color was "PeachPuff". (I figured it looked like
>> parchment.) #FFDAB9 .[*]
>
> Good choice. I still use black on some sort of yellowish background. I
> think my taste goes back to the days when an amber monitor was really
> styling.

Looking it up, that is definitely a pretty appealing color :)
I'm still going to use a desktop wallpaper (i drew) tho
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 21:02 this Wednesday (GMT):
> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 14 Aug 2024 08:07:10 GMT, vallor wrote:
>>
>>> My xterm background color was "PeachPuff". (I figured it looked like
>>> parchment.) #FFDAB9 .[*]
>>
>> Good choice. I still use black on some sort of yellowish background. I
>> think my taste goes back to the days when an amber monitor was really
>> styling.
>
> In my terminals I'm currently using green on blacks (plus DIRCOLORS and vim
> syntax highlighting).
>
> For a long time I liked a yellowish font on dark green, like the blackboards
> and chalk at the university.
>
> I'm more worried about the "strawberry blond" man with the loud tie:

For my terminal emulator, I use blue with a semi-transparent black, and
defaults for the tty.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote at 11:59 this Saturday (GMT):
> vallor wrote:
>
>>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
>>> look pretty.
>>
>><sigh> Here we go again...
>>
>>This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book, and
>>using the Unix typesetting tools of yore to get the job done faster
>>than with a wysiwyg editor.
>>
>>Most people who _try_ Linux would be newcomers, who probably spend
>>"most of their time" on support forums...if needed.
>
> I never got into the "pretty desktop" thing. It gets covered up by
> the app window anyway! That said, I do use my daughter's cool art as
> a background.

Same, the actual xfce4 config is mostly default besides messing with the
taskbar and adding a couple widgets (conky). Almost all the icons on my
desktop are hand-drawn :)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 17 Aug 2024 00:19:37 GMT, vallor wrote:

>
> I basically used another deroff.l for examples, referred to the flex(1)
> info documentation, and rolled my own scanner to skip the necessary lines.
>
>
> All-in-all, it was a fruitful evening, because
> I learned something.
>

Flex does not support Unicode which makes it somewhat anachronistic.

There is, however, RE-flex:

https://github.com/Genivia/RE-flex

But since flex is such a critical tool, I would like to see
a Unicode flex from the GNU project.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

On 8/16/2024 8:56 PM, vallor wrote:

> This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book,

Cool. Topic?

We already have one (self?) published author here on cola: Slimer.

It's true. I forget the title, but as I recall it was a coming-of-age
tale about a young male and his love life.

It was somewhat autobiographical, with lots of threesomes stories just
like Slimer enjoyed growing up. Let's just say the chapter on
vegetables isn't about diet.

I think it was even for sale on Amazon.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 12:56:31 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> Yeah because only Linux users change their wallpaper. But, I guess it's
> true that Linux is much more customizable than Windows. I consider that
> a feature, even though my customization usually just involves changing
> the wallpaper.

At one time I had my work Windows box set up with a slide show for
wallpaper. I used a directory full of photos I'd taken and it changed
every few minutes.

It could be embarrassing. Somebody would notice a scenic view and ask me
where it was and many times I was clueless. The camera didn't have a GPS
to geotag the images and one mountain waterfall looks a lot like most
other waterfalls.

I should dig up the images and set it up again.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 08:49:56 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> I think that most people spend the first three days making it look just
> right. Once they're content with the aesthetics, they try to use it as
> they would a regular Windows or Mac computer. That's where they start
> noticing that some hardware isn't operating as it should (less of a
> problem than it used to be) or that the software available doesn't
> necessarily meet their needs. Within the first week, they encounter the
> more serious bugs and look for ways to either squash or circumvent them.

I'm not a gamer and don't use Nvidia so I haven't encountered a hardware
issue in years. Printers used to be a pain in the ass on both Windows and
Linux. I seldom print anything but the last time I did I plugged the
Samsung Color Laser into the Ubuntu box and it worked with no problems.
Well, despite that the printer drum really needs a good cleaning.

As I've said many times almost all of the software I use is cross-platform
and functions as well on Linux as on Windows. The exception is the old
Esri ArcObjects API and Desktop apps which are EOL anyway.

The only bugs I've hit were the first couple of weeks after transitioning
from Fedora 39 to 40. There were a lot of changes in KDE/Qt/Plasma/Wayland
that took a while to sort out.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 09:13:49 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> You're not wrong about any of that. It's part of why I will always have
> a fondness for Linux. However, its move toward wokeness is pushing me
> away.

The only Intel box I have currently is an i5 with integrated graphics so
no Nvidia problems. If you don't like woke, you'd better dig up
Tannenbaum's book and write your own OS. You don't think MS and Apple are
woke as hell?

candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:
>chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote at 11:59 this Saturday (GMT):
>> vallor wrote:
>>
>>>> Except that most people who try Linux spend most of their time making it
>>>> look pretty.
>>>
>>><sigh> Here we go again...
>>>
>>>This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book, and
>>>using the Unix typesetting tools of yore to get the job done faster
>>>than with a wysiwyg editor.
>>>
>>>Most people who _try_ Linux would be newcomers, who probably spend
>>>"most of their time" on support forums...if needed.
>>
>> I never got into the "pretty desktop" thing. It gets covered up by
>> the app window anyway! That said, I do use my daughter's cool art as
>> a background.
>
>Same, the actual xfce4 config is mostly default besides messing with the
>taskbar and adding a couple widgets (conky). Almost all the icons on my
>desktop are hand-drawn :)

I really like Xfce, it seems to just give you a working GUI without
the overhead.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-08-17 1:09 p.m., DFS wrote:
> On 8/16/2024 8:56 PM, vallor wrote:
>
>> This last week, I've been spending most of my time writing a book,
>
>
> Cool.  Topic?
>
> We already have one (self?) published author here on cola: Slimer.
>
> It's true.  I forget the title, but as I recall it was a coming-of-age
> tale about a young male and his love life.
>
> It was somewhat autobiographical, with lots of threesomes stories just
> like Slimer enjoyed growing up.  Let's just say the chapter on
> vegetables isn't about diet.
>
> I think it was even for sale on Amazon.

It's nice to know that you read it!

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-08-17 2:45 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 08:49:56 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> I think that most people spend the first three days making it look just
>> right. Once they're content with the aesthetics, they try to use it as
>> they would a regular Windows or Mac computer. That's where they start
>> noticing that some hardware isn't operating as it should (less of a
>> problem than it used to be) or that the software available doesn't
>> necessarily meet their needs. Within the first week, they encounter the
>> more serious bugs and look for ways to either squash or circumvent them.
>
> I'm not a gamer and don't use Nvidia so I haven't encountered a hardware
> issue in years. Printers used to be a pain in the ass on both Windows and
> Linux. I seldom print anything but the last time I did I plugged the
> Samsung Color Laser into the Ubuntu box and it worked with no problems.
> Well, despite that the printer drum really needs a good cleaning.
>
> As I've said many times almost all of the software I use is cross-platform
> and functions as well on Linux as on Windows. The exception is the old
> Esri ArcObjects API and Desktop apps which are EOL anyway.
>
> The only bugs I've hit were the first couple of weeks after transitioning
> from Fedora 39 to 40. There were a lot of changes in KDE/Qt/Plasma/Wayland
> that took a while to sort out.

I've found that at least since the 2010s, printers are easier to set up
in Linux than in Windows. However, when you get it working in Windows,
it works properly with all of its features enabled. It's not always the
case with Linux.

For example, my printer works fine while it's connected via wireless in
Linux. However, the resolution is lower than it should be and the
scanner functions are not available. I also can't see how much toner I
have left. However, simply choosing the right driver through hplip takes
care of it. I doubt everyone would know how to do that though.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-08-17 2:50 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 09:13:49 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> You're not wrong about any of that. It's part of why I will always have
>> a fondness for Linux. However, its move toward wokeness is pushing me
>> away.
>
> The only Intel box I have currently is an i5 with integrated graphics so
> no Nvidia problems. If you don't like woke, you'd better dig up
> Tannenbaum's book and write your own OS. You don't think MS and Apple are
> woke as hell?

They're all woke, that's why I've settled for simply using the software
that works best with my hardware. For that, Windows is best since it
supports my fingerprint reader out of the box. There doesn't seem to be
a way to get it working in Linux.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king