On 10/30/2024 5:05 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 11:07:01 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 10/30/2024 12:36 AM, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> Why in the name of all that is holy would you take perfectly good CSV
>>> data, stick it in an obsolete version of Access, and manipulate it with
>>> the equally obsolete VBA?
>>
>> I built that years ago to:
>> * smack down that LibreOffice junk
>
> Still ignoring my point about actual data analysis, aren’t you?

Why are you still running away from the beatdown Access from 2003 puts
on LibreOffice Base from 2024?

You smirked, then ran. Why?

On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 18:39:06 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 10/30/2024 5:05 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 11:07:01 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/30/2024 12:36 AM, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why in the name of all that is holy would you take perfectly good CSV
>>>> data, stick it in an obsolete version of Access, and manipulate it with
>>>> the equally obsolete VBA?
>>>
>>> I built that years ago to:
>>> * smack down that LibreOffice junk
>>
>> Still ignoring my point about actual data analysis, aren’t you?
>
> Why are you still running away from the beatdown Access from 2003 puts
> on LibreOffice Base from 2024?

*Yawn* So you managed to make something look pretty. And meaningless.

On 30 Oct 2024 17:05:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Windows I might use .NET and C# but so far there isn't a decent .NET
> GUI on Linux.

There doesn’t seem to be a decent Dotnet GUI on Windows, either.

What’s Microsoft’s current recommendation for a Windows GUI? WinForms?
UWP? Silverlight? MFC? WinRT? Maui? Avalon?

On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 23:56:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On 30 Oct 2024 17:05:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Windows I might use .NET and C# but so far there isn't a decent
>> .NET GUI on Linux.
>
> There doesn’t seem to be a decent Dotnet GUI on Windows, either.
>
> What’s Microsoft’s current recommendation for a Windows GUI? WinForms?
> UWP? Silverlight? MFC? WinRT? Maui? Avalon?

Silverlight is dead. MAUI is UMP risen from the grave and both are the
descendants of WPF. Microsoft would dearly love to shovel dirt over
WinForms but can't ever quite get the job done.

I don't know the current status of Gtk# for cross-platform.

On 30 Oct 2024 16:58:30 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> The legacy applications are 32-bit
> and it's a royal PITA to build them on a 64-bit machine. 64-bit is out
> since the legacy Esri ArcObjects is 32-bit.

Have you tried creating a 32-bit LXC container and building the software
in that?

On 10/30/2024 7:54 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 18:39:06 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 10/30/2024 5:05 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 11:07:01 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/30/2024 12:36 AM, rbowman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why in the name of all that is holy would you take perfectly good CSV
>>>>> data, stick it in an obsolete version of Access, and manipulate it with
>>>>> the equally obsolete VBA?
>>>>
>>>> I built that years ago to:
>>>> * smack down that LibreOffice junk
>>>
>>> Still ignoring my point about actual data analysis, aren’t you?
>>
>> Why are you still running away from the beatdown Access from 2003 puts
>> on LibreOffice Base from 2024?
>
> *Yawn* So you managed to make something look pretty. And meaningless.

pwned.

Not that you and Feeb and GuhNoo LeeberOffice hobbyware were ever up to
the challenge.

On 31 Oct 2024 00:40:52 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 23:56:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On 30 Oct 2024 17:05:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Windows I might use .NET and C# but so far there isn't a decent
>>> .NET GUI on Linux.
>>
>> There doesn’t seem to be a decent Dotnet GUI on Windows, either.
>>
>> What’s Microsoft’s current recommendation for a Windows GUI? WinForms?
>> UWP? Silverlight? MFC? WinRT? Maui? Avalon?
>
> Silverlight is dead. MAUI is UMP risen from the grave and both are the
> descendants of WPF. Microsoft would dearly love to shovel dirt over
> WinForms but can't ever quite get the job done.
>
> I don't know the current status of Gtk# for cross-platform.

So, no decent GUI on Windows? On the world’s foremost platform that
inextricably integrates the GUI into the OS?

Anybody else see the irony in that?

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 00:16:38 -0400, DFS wrote:

> Not that [Linux] were ever up to the challenge.

Challenge to make something look pretty?

Actually, you can’t even win that prize
<https://matplotlib.org/stable/gallery/index>.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 23:56:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On 30 Oct 2024 17:05:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Windows I might use .NET and C# but so far there isn't a decent
>>> .NET GUI on Linux.
>>
>> There doesn’t seem to be a decent Dotnet GUI on Windows, either.
>>
>> What’s Microsoft’s current recommendation for a Windows GUI? WinForms?
>> UWP? Silverlight? MFC? WinRT? Maui? Avalon?
>
> Silverlight is dead. MAUI is UMP risen from the grave and both are the
> descendants of WPF. Microsoft would dearly love to shovel dirt over
> WinForms but can't ever quite get the job done.
>
> I don't know the current status of Gtk# for cross-platform.

Qt is decent, and cross-platform. And it's, I think, better maintained on
Windows than is Gtkmm (for example).

And avoids Microsoft's chronic churn.

--
You will not be elected to public office this year.

On 10/31/2024 1:32 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 00:16:38 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Not that [Linux] were ever up to the challenge.

That's not what I said, liar.

> Challenge to make something look pretty?

I only ever said functionality, liar.

You deflected to 'pretty' because you're a sore loser.

On 10/30/2024 5:16 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 11:03:04 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 10/30/2024 12:16 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 23:45:41 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's the datasource:
>>>> https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/download-datasets.html
>>>>
>>>> Here's my MS Access 2003 app: https://imgur.com/a/PBpe6Al
>>>>
>>>> It was built against a few tables from SR28. It has one tab control
>>>> with 2 pages, 7 listboxes, 2 option groups, one textbox, and small
>>>> amounts of VBA code.
>>>>
>>>> Your mission, should you choose to accept it (you won't), is to
>>>> replicate that simple app functionality in LibreOffice.
>>>
>>> Oh look, somebody already knows how to put it through professional
>>> analysis tools (i.e. not Microsoft):
>>> <https://github.com/afogarty85/fooddata_central>.
>>>
>>> As the saying does: “Your move, creep.”
>>
>> Told you you would fail.
>
> Think about why Microsoft has been forced to offer access to Python-based
> open-source tools to its Excel users: it’s because of the quality of
> analysis available through examples like the above.
>
> Now think about why Microsoft can get away with charging for those extra
> tools: it’s because Microsoft users (like yourself) are too dumb to
> realize they can bypass Microsoft and use them for free.

When a GuhNoo dud like you is beaten by GuhNoo dud software, he falls
back on dud lies and dud conjecture.

Larry Dud: "Installing a half-dozen python data science libraries will
make your Windows system unusable"

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 04:17:19 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On 31 Oct 2024 00:40:52 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 23:56:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On 30 Oct 2024 17:05:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Windows I might use .NET and C# but so far there isn't a decent
>>>> .NET GUI on Linux.
>>>
>>> There doesn’t seem to be a decent Dotnet GUI on Windows, either.
>>>
>>> What’s Microsoft’s current recommendation for a Windows GUI? WinForms?
>>> UWP? Silverlight? MFC? WinRT? Maui? Avalon?
>>
>> Silverlight is dead. MAUI is UMP risen from the grave and both are the
>> descendants of WPF. Microsoft would dearly love to shovel dirt over
>> WinForms but can't ever quite get the job done.
>>
>> I don't know the current status of Gtk# for cross-platform.
>
> So, no decent GUI on Windows? On the world’s foremost platform that
> inextricably integrates the GUI into the OS?

What I see is the irony of your claim there is no decent GUI for an OS
that dominates the desktop market. You are the anti-DFS when it comes to
making baseless claims.
>
> Anybody else see the irony in that?

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 07:46:27 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 23:56:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On 30 Oct 2024 17:05:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Windows I might use .NET and C# but so far there isn't a decent
>>>> .NET GUI on Linux.
>>>
>>> There doesn’t seem to be a decent Dotnet GUI on Windows, either.
>>>
>>> What’s Microsoft’s current recommendation for a Windows GUI? WinForms?
>>> UWP? Silverlight? MFC? WinRT? Maui? Avalon?
>>
>> Silverlight is dead. MAUI is UMP risen from the grave and both are the
>> descendants of WPF. Microsoft would dearly love to shovel dirt over
>> WinForms but can't ever quite get the job done.
>>
>> I don't know the current status of Gtk# for cross-platform.
>
> Qt is decent, and cross-platform. And it's, I think, better maintained
> on Windows than is Gtkmm (for example).

https://www.qt.io/blog/qt/.net-hosting-.net-code-in-a-qt-application

Not quite there yet for .NET. There was a WX.NET for wxWidgets but that
died years ago. Note that I'm focusing on .NET as a cross platform
technology. ASP.NET and CLI apps are fine on Linux but GUIs have been the
drawback.

As far as QT I hope the Qt Company is a little more together than
Trolltech. The trolls were vague about commercial licensing. That's still
a problem with PyQt versus PySide6.

>
> And avoids Microsoft's chronic churn.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 09:48:26 -0400, DFS dissembled:

> On 10/31/2024 1:32 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> Challenge to make something look pretty?
>
> I only ever said functionality ...

What functionality? All you did was put together a GUI for showing the
data.

On 31 Oct 2024 17:49:50 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 04:17:19 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On 31 Oct 2024 00:40:52 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 23:56:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30 Oct 2024 17:05:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Windows I might use .NET and C# but so far there isn't a decent
>>>>> .NET GUI on Linux.
>>>>
>>>> There doesn’t seem to be a decent Dotnet GUI on Windows, either.
>>>>
>>>> What’s Microsoft’s current recommendation for a Windows GUI?
>>>> WinForms?
>>>> UWP? Silverlight? MFC? WinRT? Maui? Avalon?
>>>
>>> Silverlight is dead. MAUI is UMP risen from the grave and both are the
>>> descendants of WPF. Microsoft would dearly love to shovel dirt over
>>> WinForms but can't ever quite get the job done.
>>>
>>> I don't know the current status of Gtk# for cross-platform.
>>
>> So, no decent GUI on Windows? On the world’s foremost platform that
>> inextricably integrates the GUI into the OS?
>
> What I see is the irony of your claim there is no decent GUI for an OS
> that dominates the desktop market.

How do developers create those “decent” GUIs without adequate tools?

Maybe those GUIs don’t turn out to be so “decent” in actual use after
all ...

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 09:54:17 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 10/30/2024 5:16 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> Think about why Microsoft has been forced to offer access to
>> Python-based open-source tools to its Excel users: it’s because of the
>> quality of analysis available through examples like the above.
>>
>> Now think about why Microsoft can get away with charging for those
>> extra tools: it’s because Microsoft users (like yourself) are too dumb
>> to realize they can bypass Microsoft and use them for free.
>
> [dissembling]

Says the one who was so desperate to find something nice that someone had
said about Microsoft Office, they had to go hang out on a Liberal-leaning
media site!

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 19:42:38 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On 31 Oct 2024 17:49:50 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 04:17:19 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On 31 Oct 2024 00:40:52 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 23:56:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 30 Oct 2024 17:05:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Windows I might use .NET and C# but so far there isn't a decent
>>>>>> .NET GUI on Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> There doesn’t seem to be a decent Dotnet GUI on Windows, either.
>>>>>
>>>>> What’s Microsoft’s current recommendation for a Windows GUI?
>>>>> WinForms?
>>>>> UWP? Silverlight? MFC? WinRT? Maui? Avalon?
>>>>
>>>> Silverlight is dead. MAUI is UMP risen from the grave and both are
>>>> the descendants of WPF. Microsoft would dearly love to shovel dirt
>>>> over WinForms but can't ever quite get the job done.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know the current status of Gtk# for cross-platform.
>>>
>>> So, no decent GUI on Windows? On the world’s foremost platform that
>>> inextricably integrates the GUI into the OS?
>>
>> What I see is the irony of your claim there is no decent GUI for an OS
>> that dominates the desktop market.
>
> How do developers create those “decent” GUIs without adequate tools?

Just what do you consider adequate tools? I suppose Visual Studio isn't
one of them.

On 31 Oct 2024 22:38:23 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 19:42:38 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On 31 Oct 2024 17:49:50 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 04:17:19 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 31 Oct 2024 00:40:52 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 23:56:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30 Oct 2024 17:05:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Windows I might use .NET and C# but so far there isn't a
>>>>>>> decent .NET GUI on Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There doesn’t seem to be a decent Dotnet GUI on Windows, either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What’s Microsoft’s current recommendation for a Windows GUI?
>>>>>> WinForms? UWP? Silverlight? MFC? WinRT? Maui? Avalon?
>>>>>
>>>>> Silverlight is dead. MAUI is UMP risen from the grave and both are
>>>>> the descendants of WPF. Microsoft would dearly love to shovel dirt
>>>>> over WinForms but can't ever quite get the job done.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know the current status of Gtk# for cross-platform.
>>>>
>>>> So, no decent GUI on Windows? On the world’s foremost platform that
>>>> inextricably integrates the GUI into the OS?
>>>
>>> What I see is the irony of your claim there is no decent GUI for an OS
>>> that dominates the desktop market.
>>
>> How do developers create those “decent” GUIs without adequate tools?
>
> Just what do you consider adequate tools?

The question is, what do Microsoft and its developers consider adequate
tools? Seems like nothing currently fills the bill.

On 10/31/2024 3:44 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 09:54:17 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 10/30/2024 5:16 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> Think about why Microsoft has been forced to offer access to
>>> Python-based open-source tools to its Excel users: it’s because of the
>>> quality of analysis available through examples like the above.
>>>
>>> Now think about why Microsoft can get away with charging for those
>>> extra tools: it’s because Microsoft users (like yourself) are too dumb
>>> to realize they can bypass Microsoft and use them for free.
>>
>> [dissembling]

Cope, dud.

> Says the one who was so desperate to find something nice that someone
> had said about Microsoft Office, they had to go hang out on a Liberal-leaning
> media site!

The story was mentioned at the bottom of the page on some tech site.

keep coping, dud.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 21:55:38 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 10/31/2024 3:44 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Says the one who was so desperate to find something nice that someone
>> had said about Microsoft Office, they had to go hang out on a
>> Liberal-leaning media site!
>
> The story was mentioned at the bottom of the page on some tech site.

Excuses, excuses.

No doubt Liberal-leaning, too.

Don’t you check on the orthodoxy of links before clicking?

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 05:58 this Wednesday (GMT):
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 23:31:00 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> Microsoft furnishes a programming editor for GNU C, which looked great.
>>
>> https://code.visualstudio.com/download
>
> Bloated, inefficient, and not as compatible as claimed.

I personally won't touch it anymore after they forced AI stuff even
harder than usual.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:
>Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 05:58 this Wednesday (GMT):
>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 23:31:00 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>
>>> Microsoft furnishes a programming editor for GNU C, which looked great.
>>>
>>> https://code.visualstudio.com/download
>>
>> Bloated, inefficient, and not as compatible as claimed.
>
>I personally won't touch it anymore after they forced AI stuff even
>harder than usual.

Oh, I wouldn't judge them overly harshly, Win11 sucks balls, unless
you have an i9 with 64 GB RAM (or a very recent i5 or better), but VS
Code looked pretty cool (I don't specifically use it, since I don't
really code anymore, but it would be worth giving a fair chance, I
think), it shows they really do support Linux. And Skype has Copilot
for Linux, which is AI without the Win11 bloatware requirement. I
don't hate M$, I am just selective about software use.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:49:51 -0500, Joel wrote:

> ... VS Code looked pretty cool ... it shows they really do support
> Linux.

And they did it without using any of their own much-vaunted GUI
development tools. Instead they built it out of Electron, of all things.

Vote of confidence in your own platform, much?

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>> ... VS Code looked pretty cool ... it shows they really do support
>> Linux.
>
>And they did it without using any of their own much-vaunted GUI
>development tools. Instead they built it out of Electron, of all things.
>
>Vote of confidence in your own platform, much?

Feel free not to use it, then, jeez.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 00:16:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:49:51 -0500, Joel wrote:
>
>> ... VS Code looked pretty cool ... it shows they really do support
>> Linux.
>
> And they did it without using any of their own much-vaunted GUI
> development tools. Instead they built it out of Electron, of all things.
>
> Vote of confidence in your own platform, much?

And it runs on Windows, Macs, Linux, and even the Arm64 Debian derivative
used for Raspberry Pi OS.