rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:04:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> "I can't remember if I've ever seen a spreadsheet used as a
>> spreadsheet." - rbowman
>>
>> How is that possible? They're EVERYWHERE in the business office.
>> I was using spreadsheets with calculations and macro code nearly 40
>> years ago (Lotus 1-2-3 in 1985).

Back then I was writing C and FORTRAN code.

> Ah, but I've never worked in a business office... The drones in HR or
> accounting did all that stuff. Even when I was a consultant I could make
> out a quarterly without a spreadsheet.
>
> Where I do see them used is as a lazy way to submit a RFP or requirements
> document. The first column is sort of like a paragraph heading and the
> rest of the columns are stream of consciousness attribute as they dream
> them up. The rows have no relationship, and the columns are unique to
> whatever thing they are describing. It's all text with no logical or
> mathematical relationship.
>
> I'm certainly not saying real Excel spreadsheets don't exist, only that
> I've never seen one with formulas to calculate cells etc in my world. The
> closest I've come is working with Power BI:
>
> https://datascientest.com/en/excel-vs-power-bi-what-are-the-differences
>
> DAX, no surprise, incoporated some Excel features, no surprise being a MS
> program.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Analysis_Expressions
>
> I do have to admit that if you want to generate pretty pictures for
> management Power BI is one of the more intuitive apps that I found.

One guy I know wrote an airfield lighting control system (lotsa hardware,
relays, etc.) using a spreadsheet (ControlCalc, an old app, not the current
Android version). Each page was a separate thread. It was pretty hairy. Our
group (not me) rewrote it, including the airfield layouts, in C++.

One time we have to fend of the suggestion to rewrite our system in...
.... LabView <shriek!>.

Eventually we did rewrite part of it in Java. Then we lost the contract based
on "cost" :-D :-(

--
I have two dogs, Timex and Rolex. They're watch dogs.

On 8/14/2024 7:54 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:50:31 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Some very uninformed people may consider LO great, but only because they
>> don't understand or haven't required the power of MS Office.
>
> Let’s just say, for the one, you pay money to have restrictions put on
> you, while with the other, you can save money and have those restrictions
> lifted.

Let's also just say compromising with substandard hobby software like
LibreOffice is the ultimate restriction.

> We all know what kind of choice people will make, don’t we?

We do. Microsoft / Adobe / AutoDesk / SAP / Oracle / Dassault Systèmes
/ Rock Star Games, etc gigantic revenue streams from proprietary
software proves it.

On 2024-08-15 10:14 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 8/14/2024 7:54 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:50:31 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Some very uninformed people may consider LO great, but only because they
>>> don't understand or haven't required the power of MS Office.
>>
>> Let’s just say, for the one, you pay money to have restrictions put on
>> you, while with the other, you can save money and have those restrictions
>> lifted.
>
> Let's also just say compromising with substandard hobby software like
> LibreOffice is the ultimate restriction.

If people aren't making ridiculously large spreadsheets like you are,
and 99.9% of the world probably isn't, LibreOffice is quite fine.

>> We all know what kind of choice people will make, don’t we?
>
> We do.  Microsoft / Adobe / AutoDesk / SAP / Oracle / Dassault Systèmes
> / Rock Star Games, etc gigantic revenue streams from proprietary
> software proves it.

You'd be surprised how many people have abandoned Adobe's software in
favour of free alternatives as a result of Adobe's monthly subscription.
In the short term, moving people over to a monthly fee will create a
great revenue stream, but people quickly lose interest in the constant
charge as well as the understanding that their content is locked from
them if ever they stop paying. What Adobe and Microsoft have reinforced,
with their monthly fees, is that "you will own nothing, and you will be
happy."

As garbage as some of Linux is, especially now that the freaks are in
control, it is still the best hope for computing.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 06:55:53 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:04:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> "I can't remember if I've ever seen a spreadsheet used as a
>>> spreadsheet." - rbowman
>>>
>>> How is that possible? They're EVERYWHERE in the business office. I
>>> was using spreadsheets with calculations and macro code nearly 40
>>> years ago (Lotus 1-2-3 in 1985).
>
> Back then I was writing C and FORTRAN code.

My brush with business software was an inventory control system I did as a
sideline at a company I worked for. They'd bought an IBM 5120 that came
with sort of a dumbed down RPG II that used, gasp, BASIC.

What I learned: people doing data entry don't actually look at the
screens. They've memorized the tab order and only look at the data they're
entering while typing away.

> One guy I know wrote an airfield lighting control system (lotsa
> hardware, relays, etc.) using a spreadsheet (ControlCalc, an old app,
> not the current Android version). Each page was a separate thread. It
> was pretty hairy. Our group (not me) rewrote it, including the airfield
> layouts, in C++.

The same company had a contract to build ALS (Rabbit) controllers.

https://www.trafficsignalmuseum.com/pages/ef15.html

The bottom three photos are an Eagle Signal stepper relay. The solenoid on
the left pulls up the massive lead weight and lets it drop with a
satisfying 'THUNK', advancing the cams one step. That was the heart of the
system. Since the FAA was involved we couldn't use those new-fangled cable
ties so the harness had to be laced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_lacing

Lickily some of the girls (okay, female technicians) were into macrame and
picked it up quickly.

In the early '70s we used them for controlling the cycle for hydraulic
plastic molding systems. They were physical state machines. A limit
switch, pushbutton, or timer would trigger the relay. Segments would be
broken out of each cam to activate the desired outputs in each row. A
spreadsheet might have been handy had they existed since they were a
physical spreadsheet; row 1 would be a high pressure bypass valve, and
each column would be if it should be open or closed at that part of the
cycle.

On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 10:14:45 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 8/14/2024 7:54 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:50:31 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Some very uninformed people may consider LO great, but only because
>>> they don't understand or haven't required the power of MS Office.
>>
>> Let’s just say, for the one, you pay money to have restrictions put on
>> you, while with the other, you can save money and have those
>> restrictions lifted.
>
> Let's also just say compromising with substandard hobby software like
> LibreOffice is the ultimate restriction.

Some professionals might disagree.
<https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/08/06/147226>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 10:14:45 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 8/14/2024 7:54 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:50:31 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some very uninformed people may consider LO great, but only because
>>>> they don't understand or haven't required the power of MS Office.
>>>
>>> Let’s just say, for the one, you pay money to have restrictions put on
>>> you, while with the other, you can save money and have those
>>> restrictions lifted.
>>
>> Let's also just say compromising with substandard hobby software like
>> LibreOffice is the ultimate restriction.
>
> Some professionals might disagree.
>
> <https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/08/06/147226>

"Scientists Rename Human Genes To Stop Microsoft Excel From Misreading Them
as Dates"

Jesus.

--
Q: What is green and lives in the ocean?
A: Moby Pickle.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 12:21:27 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 8/15/2024 12:41 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> In the short term, moving people over to a monthly fee will create a
>> great revenue stream, but people quickly lose interest in the constant
>> charge as well as the understanding that their content is locked from
>> them if ever they stop paying.
>
> It doesn't work like that:
>
>
> Adobe
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> What happens to my existing files?
> You can continue to access your Creative Cloud files on your computer
> and the Creative Cloud website, subject to a 2GB cloud storage limit. If
> you’re over the 2GB cloud storage limit when you cancel, you have 30
> days to move files out of cloud storage.
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are they able to export those files to a non-proprietary format during
that time?

No.