On 2024-05-26, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 26 May 2024 08:44:38 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> They will produce them, but I doubt that they will focus entirely on
>> that. Like I said, they've already invested so much into producing the
>> x86-64 chips that even if they were to decide to focus on ARM
>> development, they wouldn't just abandon it. I see no long-term future
>> for x86-64 myself, mostly because it truly can't compete with something
>> that doesn't have all of the archaic code bogging it down. However, a
>> lot of companies probably need a chip which will run their ancient
>> software. Unless the emulation offered on ARM is stellar - and I'm sure
>> it will be - people will want the older architecture.
>
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/04/after-48-years-zilog-is-killing-
> the-classic-standalone-z80-microprocessor-chip/
>
> Some things die eventually...

I didn't know they were still being made. The Zilog headquarters used to be
right up the road in Nampa, Idaho. (That building hasn't been Zilog for
quite a while now.)

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-26 8:16 a.m., RonB wrote:
>
>>> Had I known how annoying it was going to be to sell on Ebay, and how
>>> much I would have to sacrifice of the price in fees, I might have just
>>> kept it. The cut eBay takes is a crime.
>>
>> I haven't sold anything on eBay for a while now. They've got everything
>> against the small seller.
>
> It's precisely that. You'll put your item up for sale or a price, do
> your best to be as accurate as possible, but you're at the mercy of the
> buyer who will claim that there's a scratch, dent or whatever which
> wasn't mentioned in the original ad. At best, they'll want a small
> refund. At worst, they'll demand a complete refund but never send your
> item back. People really have to be careful not to refund until they've
> received their item back because people are definitely gaming the
> system. In fact, that's what happened with this buyer whose behaviour
> was sketchy from the beginning. He claimed there was a dent, wanted a
> complete refund, didn't get his money back immediately because I
> researched him and found out that he once never returned a laptop and
> some music device, so he settled for a small rebate because he realized
> that I wasn't going to allow him to have the machine for free.

The last thing I sold on eBay was a cell phone. It was like new. (I didn't
like it so it went into the box for about a year.) The person who bought it
gave it to his father. The buyer said it didn't work. I repeatedly asked
him, what's not working on it? Finally he said, his father "didn't like it."
I told him I didn't refund for buyer's remorse. eBay had other ideas and
forced me to take it back, so I had to buy postage. Somehow they sent it
back to the wrong address. I told eBay I never got it back, they said it was
"delivered" and deducted the full price. So not only did I give away my
phone, I paid for shipping both ways.

By the time you pay the fees and shipping it's definitely not worth the
hassle (even if you do get paid).

>>> At work, I've become so annoying with telling the kids to put their
>>> phones in their pockets that they do so at the sight of me. Some kids
>>> actually asked me what I have against them. First, they're not supposed
>>> to be using them in the hallways or certain rooms; there are designated
>>> locations for their drug. However, the real reason is become the kids
>>> have become shockingly uninteresting as a result of social media, and
>>> they are in worse physical shape than a man three times their age (me).
>>> I keep telling them that my confiscating that crap would be doing them a
>>> favour.
>>
>> I think kids are so used to not listening to anyone (including their
>> parents) that they become genuinely shocked when someone actually forces
>> them to do what they're told or obey the rules.
>
> Yep, and they're not used to the fact that some teachers (me) don't mind
> confronting them about their idiotic behaviour. Many of my co-workers
> not only never show up for their monitoring duty (and I assume they
> never get penalized either), but they do a half-assed job if they do.
> They apply none of the rules, don't move from their initial position
> (guaranteeing that someone will do something idiotic), and turn a blind
> eye to kids using their phones right in front of them because they don't
> want to be the bad guy. When the kids see that I am in their face and
> that I don't care that they feel disrespected by my approach, they are
> genuinely shocked.

What's funny is that often is the teachers who maintain discipline who are
remembered well once kids grow up. It's the teachers who want to be the
kids' "buddies" who are ridiculed. (At least that's the way it was when I
went to school — many years ago.)

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On Mon, 27 May 2024 02:02:50 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I didn't know they were still being made. The Zilog headquarters used to
> be right up the road in Nampa, Idaho. (That building hasn't been Zilog
> for quite a while now.)

I was surprised that they didn't drop it when the eZ80 came out. That's
still in production but it's SMC only.

The 40 DIP form factor lives on. The Pico, Arduino Sense BLE, and others
preserve the layout except it's now a circuit board with other components
on board. Solder on headers and it plugs into a solderless breadboard.

If I really want to go old school I still have wirewrap sockets rather
than using Dupont wires.

On 2024-05-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 02:02:50 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> I didn't know they were still being made. The Zilog headquarters used to
>> be right up the road in Nampa, Idaho. (That building hasn't been Zilog
>> for quite a while now.)
>
> I was surprised that they didn't drop it when the eZ80 came out. That's
> still in production but it's SMC only.
>
> The 40 DIP form factor lives on. The Pico, Arduino Sense BLE, and others
> preserve the layout except it's now a circuit board with other components
> on board. Solder on headers and it plugs into a solderless breadboard.
>
> If I really want to go old school I still have wirewrap sockets rather
> than using Dupont wires.

I don't need to go that old. If I was younger I might be interested in
reviving old computers (ones I used to use). Not so much anymore.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-26 10:15 p.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-26 8:16 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>
>>>> Had I known how annoying it was going to be to sell on Ebay, and how
>>>> much I would have to sacrifice of the price in fees, I might have just
>>>> kept it. The cut eBay takes is a crime.
>>>
>>> I haven't sold anything on eBay for a while now. They've got everything
>>> against the small seller.
>>
>> It's precisely that. You'll put your item up for sale or a price, do
>> your best to be as accurate as possible, but you're at the mercy of the
>> buyer who will claim that there's a scratch, dent or whatever which
>> wasn't mentioned in the original ad. At best, they'll want a small
>> refund. At worst, they'll demand a complete refund but never send your
>> item back. People really have to be careful not to refund until they've
>> received their item back because people are definitely gaming the
>> system. In fact, that's what happened with this buyer whose behaviour
>> was sketchy from the beginning. He claimed there was a dent, wanted a
>> complete refund, didn't get his money back immediately because I
>> researched him and found out that he once never returned a laptop and
>> some music device, so he settled for a small rebate because he realized
>> that I wasn't going to allow him to have the machine for free.
>
> The last thing I sold on eBay was a cell phone. It was like new. (I didn't
> like it so it went into the box for about a year.) The person who bought it
> gave it to his father. The buyer said it didn't work. I repeatedly asked
> him, what's not working on it? Finally he said, his father "didn't like it."
> I told him I didn't refund for buyer's remorse. eBay had other ideas and
> forced me to take it back, so I had to buy postage. Somehow they sent it
> back to the wrong address. I told eBay I never got it back, they said it was
> "delivered" and deducted the full price. So not only did I give away my
> phone, I paid for shipping both ways.
>
> By the time you pay the fees and shipping it's definitely not worth the
> hassle (even if you do get paid).

That is apparently a common scam. I am glad that I didn't have to suffer
that problem. However, I will never use eBay for selling again.

>>>> At work, I've become so annoying with telling the kids to put their
>>>> phones in their pockets that they do so at the sight of me. Some kids
>>>> actually asked me what I have against them. First, they're not supposed
>>>> to be using them in the hallways or certain rooms; there are designated
>>>> locations for their drug. However, the real reason is become the kids
>>>> have become shockingly uninteresting as a result of social media, and
>>>> they are in worse physical shape than a man three times their age (me).
>>>> I keep telling them that my confiscating that crap would be doing them a
>>>> favour.
>>>
>>> I think kids are so used to not listening to anyone (including their
>>> parents) that they become genuinely shocked when someone actually forces
>>> them to do what they're told or obey the rules.
>>
>> Yep, and they're not used to the fact that some teachers (me) don't mind
>> confronting them about their idiotic behaviour. Many of my co-workers
>> not only never show up for their monitoring duty (and I assume they
>> never get penalized either), but they do a half-assed job if they do.
>> They apply none of the rules, don't move from their initial position
>> (guaranteeing that someone will do something idiotic), and turn a blind
>> eye to kids using their phones right in front of them because they don't
>> want to be the bad guy. When the kids see that I am in their face and
>> that I don't care that they feel disrespected by my approach, they are
>> genuinely shocked.
>
> What's funny is that often is the teachers who maintain discipline who are
> remembered well once kids grow up. It's the teachers who want to be the
> kids' "buddies" who are ridiculed. (At least that's the way it was when I
> went to school — many years ago.)

I tell my students all the time that I am not desperate enough to want
their friendship and that I truly don't care whether they like me or
not. I am doing a job and paid to do it well. If they want a friend,
they can go to the park.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-27, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-26 10:15 p.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-26 8:16 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Had I known how annoying it was going to be to sell on Ebay, and how
>>>>> much I would have to sacrifice of the price in fees, I might have just
>>>>> kept it. The cut eBay takes is a crime.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't sold anything on eBay for a while now. They've got everything
>>>> against the small seller.
>>>
>>> It's precisely that. You'll put your item up for sale or a price, do
>>> your best to be as accurate as possible, but you're at the mercy of the
>>> buyer who will claim that there's a scratch, dent or whatever which
>>> wasn't mentioned in the original ad. At best, they'll want a small
>>> refund. At worst, they'll demand a complete refund but never send your
>>> item back. People really have to be careful not to refund until they've
>>> received their item back because people are definitely gaming the
>>> system. In fact, that's what happened with this buyer whose behaviour
>>> was sketchy from the beginning. He claimed there was a dent, wanted a
>>> complete refund, didn't get his money back immediately because I
>>> researched him and found out that he once never returned a laptop and
>>> some music device, so he settled for a small rebate because he realized
>>> that I wasn't going to allow him to have the machine for free.
>>
>> The last thing I sold on eBay was a cell phone. It was like new. (I didn't
>> like it so it went into the box for about a year.) The person who bought it
>> gave it to his father. The buyer said it didn't work. I repeatedly asked
>> him, what's not working on it? Finally he said, his father "didn't like it."
>> I told him I didn't refund for buyer's remorse. eBay had other ideas and
>> forced me to take it back, so I had to buy postage. Somehow they sent it
>> back to the wrong address. I told eBay I never got it back, they said it was
>> "delivered" and deducted the full price. So not only did I give away my
>> phone, I paid for shipping both ways.
>>
>> By the time you pay the fees and shipping it's definitely not worth the
>> hassle (even if you do get paid).
>
> That is apparently a common scam. I am glad that I didn't have to suffer
> that problem. However, I will never use eBay for selling again.
>
>>>>> At work, I've become so annoying with telling the kids to put their
>>>>> phones in their pockets that they do so at the sight of me. Some kids
>>>>> actually asked me what I have against them. First, they're not supposed
>>>>> to be using them in the hallways or certain rooms; there are designated
>>>>> locations for their drug. However, the real reason is become the kids
>>>>> have become shockingly uninteresting as a result of social media, and
>>>>> they are in worse physical shape than a man three times their age (me).
>>>>> I keep telling them that my confiscating that crap would be doing them a
>>>>> favour.
>>>>
>>>> I think kids are so used to not listening to anyone (including their
>>>> parents) that they become genuinely shocked when someone actually forces
>>>> them to do what they're told or obey the rules.
>>>
>>> Yep, and they're not used to the fact that some teachers (me) don't mind
>>> confronting them about their idiotic behaviour. Many of my co-workers
>>> not only never show up for their monitoring duty (and I assume they
>>> never get penalized either), but they do a half-assed job if they do.
>>> They apply none of the rules, don't move from their initial position
>>> (guaranteeing that someone will do something idiotic), and turn a blind
>>> eye to kids using their phones right in front of them because they don't
>>> want to be the bad guy. When the kids see that I am in their face and
>>> that I don't care that they feel disrespected by my approach, they are
>>> genuinely shocked.
>>
>> What's funny is that often is the teachers who maintain discipline who are
>> remembered well once kids grow up. It's the teachers who want to be the
>> kids' "buddies" who are ridiculed. (At least that's the way it was when I
>> went to school — many years ago.)
>
> I tell my students all the time that I am not desperate enough to want
> their friendship and that I truly don't care whether they like me or
> not. I am doing a job and paid to do it well. If they want a friend,
> they can go to the park.

If they really want to learn they'll respect you for the discipline.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-27 9:01 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-05-27, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-26 10:15 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-26 8:16 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Had I known how annoying it was going to be to sell on Ebay, and how
>>>>>> much I would have to sacrifice of the price in fees, I might have just
>>>>>> kept it. The cut eBay takes is a crime.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't sold anything on eBay for a while now. They've got everything
>>>>> against the small seller.
>>>>
>>>> It's precisely that. You'll put your item up for sale or a price, do
>>>> your best to be as accurate as possible, but you're at the mercy of the
>>>> buyer who will claim that there's a scratch, dent or whatever which
>>>> wasn't mentioned in the original ad. At best, they'll want a small
>>>> refund. At worst, they'll demand a complete refund but never send your
>>>> item back. People really have to be careful not to refund until they've
>>>> received their item back because people are definitely gaming the
>>>> system. In fact, that's what happened with this buyer whose behaviour
>>>> was sketchy from the beginning. He claimed there was a dent, wanted a
>>>> complete refund, didn't get his money back immediately because I
>>>> researched him and found out that he once never returned a laptop and
>>>> some music device, so he settled for a small rebate because he realized
>>>> that I wasn't going to allow him to have the machine for free.
>>>
>>> The last thing I sold on eBay was a cell phone. It was like new. (I didn't
>>> like it so it went into the box for about a year.) The person who bought it
>>> gave it to his father. The buyer said it didn't work. I repeatedly asked
>>> him, what's not working on it? Finally he said, his father "didn't like it."
>>> I told him I didn't refund for buyer's remorse. eBay had other ideas and
>>> forced me to take it back, so I had to buy postage. Somehow they sent it
>>> back to the wrong address. I told eBay I never got it back, they said it was
>>> "delivered" and deducted the full price. So not only did I give away my
>>> phone, I paid for shipping both ways.
>>>
>>> By the time you pay the fees and shipping it's definitely not worth the
>>> hassle (even if you do get paid).
>>
>> That is apparently a common scam. I am glad that I didn't have to suffer
>> that problem. However, I will never use eBay for selling again.
>>
>>>>>> At work, I've become so annoying with telling the kids to put their
>>>>>> phones in their pockets that they do so at the sight of me. Some kids
>>>>>> actually asked me what I have against them. First, they're not supposed
>>>>>> to be using them in the hallways or certain rooms; there are designated
>>>>>> locations for their drug. However, the real reason is become the kids
>>>>>> have become shockingly uninteresting as a result of social media, and
>>>>>> they are in worse physical shape than a man three times their age (me).
>>>>>> I keep telling them that my confiscating that crap would be doing them a
>>>>>> favour.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think kids are so used to not listening to anyone (including their
>>>>> parents) that they become genuinely shocked when someone actually forces
>>>>> them to do what they're told or obey the rules.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, and they're not used to the fact that some teachers (me) don't mind
>>>> confronting them about their idiotic behaviour. Many of my co-workers
>>>> not only never show up for their monitoring duty (and I assume they
>>>> never get penalized either), but they do a half-assed job if they do.
>>>> They apply none of the rules, don't move from their initial position
>>>> (guaranteeing that someone will do something idiotic), and turn a blind
>>>> eye to kids using their phones right in front of them because they don't
>>>> want to be the bad guy. When the kids see that I am in their face and
>>>> that I don't care that they feel disrespected by my approach, they are
>>>> genuinely shocked.
>>>
>>> What's funny is that often is the teachers who maintain discipline who are
>>> remembered well once kids grow up. It's the teachers who want to be the
>>> kids' "buddies" who are ridiculed. (At least that's the way it was when I
>>> went to school — many years ago.)
>>
>> I tell my students all the time that I am not desperate enough to want
>> their friendship and that I truly don't care whether they like me or
>> not. I am doing a job and paid to do it well. If they want a friend,
>> they can go to the park.
>
> If they really want to learn they'll respect you for the discipline.

The result is that the kids generally behave the way that I expect them
to whenever I'm around. They also say "hello" to me in the hallways,
even when they're not students I've ever had. To most of them, I'm the
big guy who doesn't mind getting in your face if you're doing something
wrong. Of course, a few of them appreciate the fact that I get in the
face of people who are bothering _them_ as well, since I can spot
bullies a mile away and love to make their life Hell.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote at 01:07 this Saturday (GMT):
> On Fri, 24 May 2024 18:58:11 -0000 (UTC), Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote
> in <slrnv51oq3.ckoc.SimonJ@silex.localdomain>:
>
>> On 2024-05-24, Tyrone wrote:
[snip]
>>> It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use
>>> with lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on
>>> computers.
>>>
>>> Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same
>>> idea.
>> Valve and the Steamdeck are doing it too.
>
> So did Google. It's called "ChromeOS".

ChromeOS is kinda bad (from personal experience) and the Linuxisms are
all hidden.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2024-05-27 6:45 p.m., candycanearter07 wrote:
> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote at 01:07 this Saturday (GMT):
>> On Fri, 24 May 2024 18:58:11 -0000 (UTC), Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote
>> in <slrnv51oq3.ckoc.SimonJ@silex.localdomain>:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-24, Tyrone wrote:
> [snip]
>>>> It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use
>>>> with lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on
>>>> computers.
>>>>
>>>> Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same
>>>> idea.
>>> Valve and the Steamdeck are doing it too.
>>
>> So did Google. It's called "ChromeOS".
>
>
> ChromeOS is kinda bad (from personal experience) and the Linuxisms are
> all hidden.

I haven't used ChromeOS for more than a glance but I would assume it is
excellent if you're a fan of web apps. I love web apps myself.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote at 22:52 this Monday (GMT):
> On 2024-05-27 6:45 p.m., candycanearter07 wrote:
>> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote at 01:07 this Saturday (GMT):
>>> On Fri, 24 May 2024 18:58:11 -0000 (UTC), Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote
>>> in <slrnv51oq3.ckoc.SimonJ@silex.localdomain>:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-24, Tyrone wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>>> It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use
>>>>> with lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on
>>>>> computers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same
>>>>> idea.
>>>> Valve and the Steamdeck are doing it too.
>>>
>>> So did Google. It's called "ChromeOS".
>>
>>
>> ChromeOS is kinda bad (from personal experience) and the Linuxisms are
>> all hidden.
>
> I haven't used ChromeOS for more than a glance but I would assume it is
> excellent if you're a fan of web apps. I love web apps myself.

I don't.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2024-05-27, candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:
> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote at 01:07 this Saturday (GMT):
>> On Fri, 24 May 2024 18:58:11 -0000 (UTC), Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote
>> in <slrnv51oq3.ckoc.SimonJ@silex.localdomain>:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-24, Tyrone wrote:
> [snip]
>>>> It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use
>>>> with lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on
>>>> computers.
>>>>
>>>> Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same
>>>> idea.
>>> Valve and the Steamdeck are doing it too.
>>
>> So did Google. It's called "ChromeOS".
>
>
> ChromeOS is kinda bad (from personal experience) and the Linuxisms are
> all hidden.

Agreed. I tried it out for a while. Mostly I wanted to run Linux on a
machine that had a long battery life. It worked, but getting around ChromeOS
to run Debian became a pain in the neck.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-27, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-27 6:45 p.m., candycanearter07 wrote:
>> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote at 01:07 this Saturday (GMT):
>>> On Fri, 24 May 2024 18:58:11 -0000 (UTC), Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote
>>> in <slrnv51oq3.ckoc.SimonJ@silex.localdomain>:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-24, Tyrone wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>>> It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use
>>>>> with lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on
>>>>> computers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same
>>>>> idea.
>>>> Valve and the Steamdeck are doing it too.
>>>
>>> So did Google. It's called "ChromeOS".
>>
>>
>> ChromeOS is kinda bad (from personal experience) and the Linuxisms are
>> all hidden.
>
> I haven't used ChromeOS for more than a glance but I would assume it is
> excellent if you're a fan of web apps. I love web apps myself.

It's not excellent (too limited) — at least not for the way I use a
computer. But I wasn't a typical ChromeOS user. I used it as a platform to
get to Debian Linux. I could run most of my Linux applications on it, but it
was clunky getting to them.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On Mon, 27 May 2024 18:52:19 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I haven't used ChromeOS for more than a glance but I would assume it is
> excellent if you're a fan of web apps. I love web apps myself.

We bought a ChromeBook for testing the web app. It did quite well.

It has a lot of different meanings but in my industry 'zero footprint' has
become a buzzword in RFPs. In this case it means no additional software
installed on the computer beyond a browser.

There are two advantages. All updates on done on the server so there is no
need to update each machine. The second is there nothing stored on the
computer. If the laptop is stolen, assuming they can get into it, it's
essentially a generic laptop from BestBuy.

On 2024-05-27 9:32 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 18:52:19 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> I haven't used ChromeOS for more than a glance but I would assume it is
>> excellent if you're a fan of web apps. I love web apps myself.
>
> We bought a ChromeBook for testing the web app. It did quite well.
>
> It has a lot of different meanings but in my industry 'zero footprint' has
> become a buzzword in RFPs. In this case it means no additional software
> installed on the computer beyond a browser.
>
> There are two advantages. All updates on done on the server so there is no
> need to update each machine. The second is there nothing stored on the
> computer. If the laptop is stolen, assuming they can get into it, it's
> essentially a generic laptop from BestBuy.

From a security perspective, there is no doubt that what Google is
doing is stellar. However, I can understand why people would prefer to
have real software installed on their storage. Still, considering how
people are now able to reproduce the functionality of Photoshop in a web
app, Chromebooks don't seem to be that big of a sacrifice.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:
>vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote at 01:07 this Saturday (GMT):
>>
>> So did Google [make a popular Linux]. It's called "ChromeOS".
>
>ChromeOS is kinda bad (from personal experience) and the Linuxisms are
>all hidden.

Yeah, that's throwing good money after bad, a Winblows laptop, with
the SSD wiped to install Linux, would be far better.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-05-28, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-27 9:32 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 18:52:19 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't used ChromeOS for more than a glance but I would assume it is
>>> excellent if you're a fan of web apps. I love web apps myself.
>>
>> We bought a ChromeBook for testing the web app. It did quite well.
>>
>> It has a lot of different meanings but in my industry 'zero footprint' has
>> become a buzzword in RFPs. In this case it means no additional software
>> installed on the computer beyond a browser.
>>
>> There are two advantages. All updates on done on the server so there is no
>> need to update each machine. The second is there nothing stored on the
>> computer. If the laptop is stolen, assuming they can get into it, it's
>> essentially a generic laptop from BestBuy.
>
> From a security perspective, there is no doubt that what Google is
> doing is stellar. However, I can understand why people would prefer to
> have real software installed on their storage. Still, considering how
> people are now able to reproduce the functionality of Photoshop in a web
> app, Chromebooks don't seem to be that big of a sacrifice.

Definitely not my choice.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On Tue, 28 May 2024 12:35:33 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> On 2024-05-28, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-27 9:32 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 18:52:19 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> I haven't used ChromeOS for more than a glance but I would assume it
>>>> is excellent if you're a fan of web apps. I love web apps myself.
>>>
>>> We bought a ChromeBook for testing the web app. It did quite well.
>>>
>>> It has a lot of different meanings but in my industry 'zero footprint'
>>> has become a buzzword in RFPs. In this case it means no additional
>>> software installed on the computer beyond a browser.
>>>
>>> There are two advantages. All updates on done on the server so there
>>> is no need to update each machine. The second is there nothing stored
>>> on the computer. If the laptop is stolen, assuming they can get into
>>> it, it's essentially a generic laptop from BestBuy.
>>
>> From a security perspective, there is no doubt that what Google is
>> doing is stellar. However, I can understand why people would prefer to
>> have real software installed on their storage. Still, considering how
>> people are now able to reproduce the functionality of Photoshop in a
>> web app, Chromebooks don't seem to be that big of a sacrifice.
>
> Definitely not my choice.

Nor mine but it does seem to be the future we're moving towards. Or back
to might be more accurate. IBMs preferred model always was big iron in a
climate controlled room with ADM-3As scattered about. The big iron wasn't
quite big enough so if HR was running the payroll your little project
might grind to a halt.

Somebody came up with 'thin client' that sounded better than 'dumb
terminal' and the average thin client isn't completely dumb.

rBowman: the average thin client isn't completely dumb.

Some of us thought "dumb terminals" (smart phones) wouldn't be popular.

"Relf" <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:

>rBowman: the average thin client isn't completely dumb.
>
>Some of us thought "dumb terminals" (smart phones) wouldn't be popular.

My 2021 model smartphone is far more powerful than the typical Win7
computer.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 5/28/2024 2:21 PM, Joel wrote:
> "Relf" <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:
>
>> rBowman: the average thin client isn't completely dumb.
>>
>> Some of us thought "dumb terminals" (smart phones) wouldn't be popular.
>
>
> My 2021 model smartphone is far more powerful than the typical Win7
> computer.

Exactly which 2021 smartphone do you have?

On 2024-05-28 4:08 p.m., DFS wrote:
> On 5/28/2024 2:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>> "Relf"  <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:
>>
>>> rBowman: the average thin client isn't completely dumb.
>>>
>>> Some of us thought "dumb terminals" (smart phones) wouldn't be popular.
>>
>>
>> My 2021 model smartphone is far more powerful than the typical Win7
>> computer.
>
> Exactly which 2021 smartphone do you have?

Probably some cheap Motorola he found inside his "girlfriend's" ass.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>On 5/28/2024 2:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>> "Relf" <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:
>>
>>> rBowman: the average thin client isn't completely dumb.
>>>
>>> Some of us thought "dumb terminals" (smart phones) wouldn't be popular.
>>
>> My 2021 model smartphone is far more powerful than the typical Win7
>> computer.
>
>Exactly which 2021 smartphone do you have?

Samsung Galaxy S21, what else? :)

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>On 2024-05-28 4:08 p.m., DFS wrote:
>> On 5/28/2024 2:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> "Relf"  <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:
>>>
>>>> rBowman: the average thin client isn't completely dumb.
>>>>
>>>> Some of us thought "dumb terminals" (smart phones) wouldn't be popular.
>>>
>>> My 2021 model smartphone is far more powerful than the typical Win7
>>> computer.
>>
>> Exactly which 2021 smartphone do you have?
>
>Probably some cheap Motorola he found inside his "girlfriend's" ass.

We knew you were a dickless piece of shit, making shit up, like a
retard.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 5/28/2024 2:21 PM, Joel wrote:
> "Relf" <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:
>
>> rBowman: the average thin client isn't completely dumb.
>>
>> Some of us thought "dumb terminals" (smart phones) wouldn't be popular.
>
>
> My 2021 model smartphone is far more powerful than the typical Win7
> computer.

Win 7 generally available late Oct 2009
Intel Core i5-750 chip released Sep 2009 (the chip I ran for 12 years).
Samsung Galaxy S21 runs a SnapDragon 888 5G chip, released Dec 2020

So your chip is 11 years newer than the i5-750

CPU Marks
i5-750 : 2535
Snapdragon 888 est : 6125

Geekbench 5, 64bit (Single-Core)
i5-750 : 539
Snapdragon 888: 1108

Geekbench 5, 64bit (Multi-Core)
i5-750 : 1692
Snapdragon 888: 3541

Yep, total beatdown of the i5. Impressive. I didn't know modern
smartphone CPUs were so powerful.

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>On 5/28/2024 2:21 PM, Joel wrote:
>> "Relf" <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:
>>
>>> rBowman: the average thin client isn't completely dumb.
>>>
>>> Some of us thought "dumb terminals" (smart phones) wouldn't be popular.
>>
>> My 2021 model smartphone is far more powerful than the typical Win7
>> computer.
>
>Win 7 generally available late Oct 2009
>Intel Core i5-750 chip released Sep 2009 (the chip I ran for 12 years).
>Samsung Galaxy S21 runs a SnapDragon 888 5G chip, released Dec 2020
>
>So your chip is 11 years newer than the i5-750
>
>CPU Marks
>i5-750 : 2535
>Snapdragon 888 est : 6125
>
>
>Geekbench 5, 64bit (Single-Core)
>i5-750 : 539
>Snapdragon 888: 1108
>
>
>Geekbench 5, 64bit (Multi-Core)
>i5-750 : 1692
>Snapdragon 888: 3541
>
>
>Yep, total beatdown of the i5. Impressive. I didn't know modern
>smartphone CPUs were so powerful.

Your then-CPU is pretty typical of a Win7 box, yeah, faster than the
average early ones, but probably more or less equivalent to later ones
(bearing in mind that Win8 was released three years after Win7, I'm
basing this theory on OEM PCs sold during the time Win7 was current).

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.