On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:17:47 -0500, Paul wrote:

> At another place I worked, it was PERL. The CAD tools had a few
> shortcomings, and on some days, if you walked by desks, everyone
> was coding in PERL to make up for the productivity shortfall of
> the CAD tool. The funny part, was when one of our engineers won
> the award with that brand of software, for the "most complex design
> of the year" using the stuff. The potential customers would think
> the CAD tool had done the work, when it was something like a hundred
> individual PERL scripts that managed the design (the PERL updated
> signal lists on wide buses in the design -- the CAD tool expected
> you to "click each one and edit it", which is idiotic).

Were your Perl scripts able to access the CAD files directly? Were they in
some non-proprietary format?

On the one hand, this kind of labour-saving operation is exactly why
programmable computers were invented. On the other hand, as you mentioned,
too much of the credit tends to go to the name-brand proprietary tool at
the most conspicuous point of your workflow, instead of the generalized
open-source toolkit operating in the background, that greatly simplified
the major part of the work.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:05:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> I have no doubt that jupyter is awesome. In the right hands. Not for
> excel jockeys.

That’s their fault for sticking to a mediocre tool that is only capable of
mediocre results.

Either the quality of such work is crucial to the success of the company
employing them, or it is not. If it is, then they drag the whole company
down relative to its smarter competitors. If it isn’t, then they are just
deadweight.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

> There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than the
> ability to run open-source. Get real!

The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer any
getting away from it. It underlies everything.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 00:59:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing
>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source software
>> turns into a complete nightmare.
>
> Hardly.

Pro tip: a denial is not a refutation.

On 04 Jan 2025 20:45:58 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
in <67799e06$0$12936$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:

> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>> On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency?
>>>
>>> First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the
>>> Window Manager.
>>>
>>> Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a
>>> few different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a
>>> WM which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which
>>> one to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look
>>> similar and I still don't know if I like it or not.
>>>
>>> So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real
>>> consistency.
>>
>> Cinnamon desktop?
>
> What I mean is cinnamon is the default desktop. I don't like it, it's a
> matter of taste, it's of no concern here. But when I installed xfce,
> lxde and enlightenment, they all looked like cinnamon and that was
> disturbing. I was hopping to show different ways of using Linux, but
> they were so similar, it was like showing the Window Manager is of no
> consequence, they can all look the same. So, it was a consistency
> brought by the distro, not by the WM.

Not just WM, but DE. Even so, one can configure.

Here I'm making sure Cairo Dock is stable enough for
Mrs. vallor's Linux workstation:

https://imgur.com/yYyJRwg

(DE: xfce4)

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.12.8 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"

On 2025-01-04 21:34, Sn!pe wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>
>> On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>
> [big snip]
>
>>>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it
>>>> all "just works".
>>>>
>>>
>>> Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something
>>> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is
>>> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
>>>
>>
>> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
>> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.
>>
>
> Fair comment. You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.

Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works;
they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking
wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who
would wish to do such things are peons.

Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I
purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how
easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find
MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise
for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 1/4/25 9:57 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:17:47 -0500, Paul wrote:
>
>> At another place I worked, it was PERL. The CAD tools had a few
>> shortcomings, and on some days, if you walked by desks, everyone
>> was coding in PERL to make up for the productivity shortfall of
>> the CAD tool. The funny part, was when one of our engineers won
>> the award with that brand of software, for the "most complex design
>> of the year" using the stuff. The potential customers would think
>> the CAD tool had done the work, when it was something like a hundred
>> individual PERL scripts that managed the design (the PERL updated
>> signal lists on wide buses in the design -- the CAD tool expected
>> you to "click each one and edit it", which is idiotic).
>
> Were your Perl scripts able to access the CAD files directly? Were they in
> some non-proprietary format?
>
> On the one hand, this kind of labour-saving operation is exactly why
> programmable computers were invented. On the other hand, as you mentioned,
> too much of the credit tends to go to the name-brand proprietary tool at
> the most conspicuous point of your workflow, instead of the generalized
> open-source toolkit operating in the background, that greatly simplified
> the major part of the work.

Not necessarily a question of generalized vs proprietary, because before
even taking that step, the workflows are what matters.

If your assignments are pretty clearly delineated and more consistently
fixed for inputs/outputs, then with repetition & definition, they're
quite conducive to automation through such scripting/macro/etc tools and
these are then a boon.

OTOH, if you're in a knowledge worker whose steps are less rigorously
defined ... the tasks are more "squishy" ... workflows can have "rhymes
& echos" on fundamental principles, but vary widely enough such that
they're not sufficiently similar enough to make scripting/automation be
viable: the lack of applied value-added makes the same automation
capability become more of a curiosity for that workflow use case need,
regardless of the open source vs proprietary fanboy debates.

-hh

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>
> > There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than
> > the ability to run open-source. Get real!
> >
>
> The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
> crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer
> any getting away from it. It underlies everything.
>

Maybe so, but you've missed the point that the users (those 99%
of people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need
to know that nor do they care about it. Their requirements are
transparently (for them) catered for by existing software.
--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.

On 1/4/25 10:08 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 21:34, Sn!pe wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>> [big snip]
>>
>>>>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
>>>>> all "just works".
>>>>>
>>>> Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for
>>>> something
>>>> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality
>>>> that is
>>>> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>>>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
>>> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.
>>>
>>
>> Fair comment.  You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.
>
> Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works;
> they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking
> wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who
> would wish to do such things are peons.

Reminds me of a friend who sends me an email 2x/year that's a copy of
the report of the latest chemical analysis from his car's most recent
oil change: dude, its fine that you want your car to last, but its not
going to be preserved in a museum!

> Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
> I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I
> purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how
> easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find
> MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise
> for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.

I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go
through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore,
because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.

-hh

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:

[...]

> >> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
> >> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.
> >>
> >
> > Fair comment. You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.
> >
>
> Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works;
> they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking
> wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who
> would wish to do such things are peons.
>
> Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
> I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I
> purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how
> easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find
> MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise
> for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.
>

Yes, I quite agree; it's a matter of 'horses for courses'. Personally,
having played the field, I simply can't be bothered any more getting to
grips with the nuts and bolts of the system.

Macs suit me well, they do what I want of them. If I need anything more
(e.g. ham radio stuff) I know how to achieve it in a VM; not many people
would even dream of doing that.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 03:25:55 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>>
>>> There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than
>>> the ability to run open-source. Get real!
>>>
>> The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
>> crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer
>> any getting away from it. It underlies everything.
>>
> Maybe so, but ... the users (those 99% of
> people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need to know
> that nor do they care about it.

Open Source is like the car with a bonnet you can open. Most users never
look under the bonnet of their car. So why not sell cars with sealed
bonnets?

Because a car with a bonnet that can be opened can be serviced by any
competent mechanic -- you don’t have to take your car back to the
manufacturer for everything. Imagine how expensive car maintenance would
be if the original manufacturer had a monopoly on it--and how much more
likely they would be to tell you that it is unfixable and must be
replaced, just because they would rather sell you a new model. It is free-
market competition that keeps prices down, and gives you such a choice of
market products.

Open Source brings free-market competition to the software industry.

-hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> <snip>
>
> I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go
> through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore,
> because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.

Extraordinary efforts? I have a 12+ year-old laptop that's been a Linux
box for all of its life (after it got delivered to me).

The only extraordinary effort I took was installing an SSD.

The thing is shut down right now; Imma keeping it around for potential later
usage.

(I've got an old desktop box sitting up in the attic. Not sure I will ever
power it on again. Noisy, takes up too much room.)

--
In Columbia, Pennsylvania, it is against the law for a pilot to tickle
a female flying student under her chin with a feather duster in order
to get her attention.

On 2025-01-04 22:39, Sn!pe wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>>> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
>>>> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Fair comment. You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.
>>>
>>
>> Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works;
>> they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking
>> wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who
>> would wish to do such things are peons.
>>
>> Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
>> I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I
>> purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how
>> easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find
>> MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise
>> for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.
>>
>
> Yes, I quite agree; it's a matter of 'horses for courses'. Personally,
> having played the field, I simply can't be bothered any more getting to
> grips with the nuts and bolts of the system.

I am admittedly feeling the same way now that I'm nearing middle age,
which is partly why I am reverting to the frame of mind I had in my 20s
when I was a fan of Apple and Mac OS X. Had the hardware not been too
slow to run the operating system back then, I probably wouldn't have
returned to Windows in 2006 or so. I was considering making all my
hardware Apple when it will be time to replace what I own, but I don't
feel comfortable spending nearly 3k or more on something that I can't
upgrade. Since I also don't want to be stuck with an unfixable bug like
the fTPM stuttering in Windows, Linux seems like the perfect solution.

> Macs suit me well, they do what I want of them. If I need anything more
> (e.g. ham radio stuff) I know how to achieve it in a VM; not many people
> would even dream of doing that.

I'm especially a fan of the battery life I got when I still had that
Macbook Air M1. I imagine that it would have gotten worse had I allowed
the battery to wear out like most people do, but at 98% health, it was
remarkable. I could go an entire workday with a single charge. Still, it
definitely needed more than 8GB of RAM and 256GB was definitely not
enough storage, but there was nothing I could do about it. Additionally,
once the 256GB wore out (within the first five years by my
calculations), there would have been nothing I could do to replace the
storage. Not only that, but once the storage is worn, it shorts the CPU
rendering the entire unit useless anyway. I've watched enough videos
about it on YouTube to prompt me to sell a machine I otherwise liked
very much. Considering this, I am likely to move to a manufacturer
specializing in Linux hardware with an open BIOS and the rest.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 2025-01-05 01:47, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 03:25:55 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than
>>>> the ability to run open-source. Get real!
>>>>
>>> The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
>>> crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer
>>> any getting away from it. It underlies everything.
>>>
>> Maybe so, but ... the users (those 99% of
>> people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need to know
>> that nor do they care about it.
>
> Open Source is like the car with a bonnet you can open. Most users never
> look under the bonnet of their car. So why not sell cars with sealed
> bonnets?
>
> Because a car with a bonnet that can be opened can be serviced by any
> competent mechanic -- you don’t have to take your car back to the
> manufacturer for everything. Imagine how expensive car maintenance would
> be if the original manufacturer had a monopoly on it--and how much more
> likely they would be to tell you that it is unfixable and must be
> replaced, just because they would rather sell you a new model. It is free-
> market competition that keeps prices down, and gives you such a choice of
> market products.
>
> Open Source brings free-market competition to the software industry.

There is absolutely nothing I can disagree with there. Your example is
especially significant since my brother and sister in law decided to
make Audi their favourite car brand a few years ago in response to my
wife's decision to buy a luxury car for her work (she needed to be
presentable). They are jealous people who always feel the need to one-up
us even though we're not competing with them in any way. Anyway, they
could barely afford the car so when it came time to fix it, the wife
decided to have her husband fix it himself rather than go to the
dealership or a competent mechanic. He quickly realized that unlike the
Chevrolet and Hyundai they owned before, the Audi required special tools
to open it up. Similarly, it needed non-standard parts for the repair
itself. Clearly, such practical people should have bought from a company
which allows people to fix the vehicles themselves, but that wouldn't
have provided them the second or two of satisfaction at the thought they
might have made us jealous.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

Andrzej Matuch wrote:

>Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
>I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I
>purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase.

Yeah, it makes them a less fun, to us computer geeks.

--
'[chrisv] literally said it was "stupid" to test the code vs relying
on compiler warnings.' - DumFSck, lying shamelessly

On 1/5/25 7:19 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> -hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> <snip>
>>
>> I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go
>> through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore,
>> because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.
>
> Extraordinary efforts? I have a 12+ year-old laptop that's been a Linux
> box for all of its life (after it got delivered to me).
>
> The only extraordinary effort I took was installing an SSD.

For hardware that's only ~10 years old, sure.

But in this case I was thinking further back in time, such as in the
1990s where things like CPU speeds increased by +30% every ~9 months.
That high rate of change (vs today's) is what motivated a lot of us to
DIY incremental hardware upgrades.

> The thing is shut down right now; Imma keeping it around for potential later
> usage.
>
> (I've got an old desktop box sitting up in the attic. Not sure I will ever
> power it on again. Noisy, takes up too much room.)

Similarly, I've got a Vista box sitting around right now from an
"Estate" clean-out of a familymember's home; not sure that anyone knows
its Admin password...but it does have an SSD that I recall that I had
installed sometime before 2013. Keeping it around to potentially make a
Linux based NAS appliance out of it, but part of that question will be
to see how many internal SATA drives it can support to see if its really
worth bothering much with, to repurpose a stack of old small 4TB drives
that are on the "don't throw away yet" old hardware pile.

-hh

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 19:32:32 -0500, Paul wrote:
>
> >> Installing Windows 11? The installer won't allow you to continue
> >> without logging in to your account. Sure, there are workarounds if
> >> you pray five times a day and stand on your head doing so, but it
> >> doesn't allow it be default.
> >
> > [long-winded installation procedure deleted]
>
> Which is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.

<barf!> It's good that *you* don't use Windows, because you have no
clue about what's (not) being talked about.

Clue-by-four: Paul's procedure has *nothing* to do with the issue
which Andrzej raised (circumventing the need for a Microsoft account to
install Windows 11).

But by all means, keep digging. One of these days you're bound to come
up at the other end.

But granted, the procedure (to circumvent the need for a MSA) is
*very* complicated. In my case I needed to press the 'Airplane mode'
button on my keyboard. Heaven knows how I managed to do that. Must have
taken hours of my precious time.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:10:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:19:07 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:28 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... suggests that people don't do much other than open up Word and
>>>>>>> Excel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the professional world that's pretty accurate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn’t sound like that adjective “professional” extends to the actual
>>>>> quality of results, then.
>>>>
>>>> Based on what, exactly?
>>>
>>> Based on the known issues with over-reliance on Microsoft products.
>>
>> Such as? Excluding the gene name issue, which is pretty niche.
>
> It’s affecting a whole lot of research work
> <https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-016-1044-7>.
>
> Then there was the massive screwup over underreporting of COVID-19
> figures in the UK, which went undetected for months
> <https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/10/excel-glitch-may-have-caused-uk-to-underreport-covid-19-cases-by-15841/>.
>
> The Austrian Social Democratic Party’s botched election of a new
> leader
> <https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/06/austria_election_excel_blunder/>.
>
> How many Excel screwups can you commit in just one job?
> <https://www.theregister.com/2023/10/12/excel_anesthetist_recruitment_blunder/>.
>
> Is it a good idea for a Formula 1 team to use Excel to manage its
> parts inventory?
> <https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/formula-1-chief-appalled-to-find-team-using-excel-to-manage-20000-car-parts/>.
>
> There are entire websites devoted to compiling errors caused by using
> Microsoft Excel.

I'm the first to admit that poor use of excel can have serious
implications. It is part of my lectures to University students. My
"favourite" example is the misapplication of economic austerity during a
recession:
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/lifestyle/george-osborne-plunged-uk-into-austerity-due-to-an-error-on-a-spreadsheet-335732/

The error caused a reverse in the sign of the outcome meaning that
austerity was actually harmful to the economy rather than beneficial as was
originally claimed.

Having said all that, claiming that using MS Office is "unprofessional" is
laughable.

On 1/1/2025 12:32 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:

> Huh.. My Canon pixma wouldn't work with Mint, which is a Ubuntu, during
> one whole day of trial and error.

Welcome to Linux!

First thing you need to do is setup an account at
https://forums.linuxmint.com/

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 00:59:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing
>>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source software
>>> turns into a complete nightmare.
>>
>> Hardly.
>
> Pro tip: a denial is not a refutation.

Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages from
source. Far, far easier than on Windows.

Given that macOS is a single platform it is sometimes even simpler than
linux where there's multiple ways to achieve the same thing depending on
whether it Redhat, debian or ubuntu based and type of kernel you have.

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>>
>>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it
>>> all "just works".
>>
>> Until it doesn’t. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something
>> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is
>> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
>
> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.

That's a surprise. Was trivial here.

On 2025-01-05, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> On 04 Jan 2025 20:45:58 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
> in <67799e06$0$12936$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:
>
>> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>> On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency?
>>>>
>>>> First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the
>>>> Window Manager.
>>>>
>>>> Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a
>>>> few different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a
>>>> WM which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which
>>>> one to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look
>>>> similar and I still don't know if I like it or not.
>>>>
>>>> So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real
>>>> consistency.
>>>
>>> Cinnamon desktop?
>>
>> What I mean is cinnamon is the default desktop. I don't like it, it's a
>> matter of taste, it's of no concern here. But when I installed xfce,
>> lxde and enlightenment, they all looked like cinnamon and that was
>> disturbing. I was hopping to show different ways of using Linux, but
>> they were so similar, it was like showing the Window Manager is of no
>> consequence, they can all look the same. So, it was a consistency
>> brought by the distro, not by the WM.
>
> Not just WM, but DE. Even so, one can configure.
>
> Here I'm making sure Cairo Dock is stable enough for
> Mrs. vallor's Linux workstation:
>
> https://imgur.com/yYyJRwg
>
> (DE: xfce4)
>
Looks great.

--
pothead

"Give a man a fish and you turn him into a Democrat for life"
"Teach a man to fish and he might become a self-sufficient conservative Republican"
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up,"
--- Barack H. Obama

On 2025-01-05 11:05, DFS wrote:
> On 1/1/2025 12:32 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
>
>
>> Huh.. My Canon pixma wouldn't work with Mint, which is a Ubuntu,
>> during one whole day of trial and error.
>
>
> Welcome to Linux!
>
> First thing you need to do is setup an account at https://
> forums.linuxmint.com/

It is most likely not a Mint problem as much as a camera problem. Unlike
in Windows where the user would be prompted to install drivers to use
the camera as-is without any kind of modification, he will probably have
to set it up to be detected as external storage on the camera itself.
This is yet another example of hardware insisting on using proprietary
protocols to be communicated with when none should have been necessary,
much like the iPhone in Linux.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

On 1/5/25 1:29 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-05 11:05, DFS wrote:
>> On 1/1/2025 12:32 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Huh.. My Canon pixma wouldn't work with Mint, which is a Ubuntu,
>>> during one whole day of trial and error.
>>
>>
>> Welcome to Linux!
>>
>> First thing you need to do is setup an account at https://
>> forums.linuxmint.com/
>
> It is most likely not a Mint problem as much as a camera problem. Unlike > in Windows where the user would be prompted to install drivers to use
> the camera as-is without any kind of modification, he will probably have
> to set it up to be detected as external storage on the camera itself.
> This is yet another example of hardware insisting on using proprietary
> protocols to be communicated with when none should have been necessary,
> much like the iPhone in Linux.

Nice guess ... but "Pixma" is a printer.

And Canon does provide some support for Linux printer drivers, but as
per their website's language, it is apparently quite limited:

"Canon currently only provides support for PIXMA products and the Linux
operating system by providing basic drivers in a limited amount of
languages.

These basic drivers may not encompass the full range of functionalities
for all printer and all-in-one products but they will allow basic
printing and scanning operation.

Linux drivers are not supplied as part of Canon’s installation CD-ROM
and these are instead made available via our support area. Please select
your product and filter the results based on language and operating system.

Canon does not offer specific after care support for Linux related
issues beyond the provision of the initial drivers."

<https://www.canon-europe.com/support/operating-system-information/>

-hh

-hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> <snip>
>
> And Canon does provide some support for Linux printer drivers, but as
> per their website's language, it is apparently quite limited:
>
> "Canon currently only provides support for PIXMA products and the Linux
> operating system by providing basic drivers in a limited amount of
> languages.
>
> These basic drivers may not encompass the full range of functionalities
> for all printer and all-in-one products but they will allow basic
> printing and scanning operation.
>
> Linux drivers are not supplied as part of Canon’s installation CD-ROM
> and these are instead made available via our support area. Please select
> your product and filter the results based on language and operating system.
>
> Canon does not offer specific after care support for Linux related
> issues beyond the provision of the initial drivers."
>
> <https://www.canon-europe.com/support/operating-system-information/>

I bought a Canoscan LiDE scanner and it worked out of the box with
xsane and skanlite. Never needed to find their "drivers".

The scanner has copy and other buttons to press, but those are not
relevant to getting the job of scanning done.

--
I just know I'm a better manager when I have Joe DiMaggio in center field.
-- Casey Stengel