Le 2024-12-19 à 12:19, Newyana2 a écrit :
> On 12/19/2024 11:21 AM, Paul wrote:
>
>>     On balance I think the way Mint does it (still shipping
>>     with the older kernel) is better.
>>
>> If your machine is relatively new, then Linux Mint 22 is a better fit.
>> There may still be some support items not working yet. My hardware
>> monitor
>> sensors, still cannot be read out on three boards. If a kernel claims
>> to be a HWE (hardware enablement kernel), that can provide better
>> support for bleeding edge hardware (your new NPU and machine learning
>> setup).
>>
>> Those choices should come closer to a friendly environment.
>
>     I tried Mint once. I didn't get past the kiddie folder icons.
> I actually like Suse. It's very polished compared to most versions.
> It also has a good software selection. Though the firewall I finally
> got working, opensnitch, was only available through less direct
> channels. The Suse packages are really just the basics.
>
>    I think the "distro" wars misses the point. There's no magical
> version that solves the Linux problem. They're all moving
> targets, under construction, not well designed for Desktop.
> People always say, "Oh, well, you must not have tried AceAndAcme
> Linux. It's the cat's pajamas." No. None of them are the cat's pajamas.
>
>    In more recent times, the half-baked geek versions have been
> joined by solid versions "your gandmother could use". But that's
> also not a solution. It's just two extremes. It's based on the typical
> Linux devotee thinking that people are divided into hardcore geeks
> and grandmothers. (Possibly those are the only people that these
> geeks know.) The niche that Windows fills is the giant area in between --
> a system with tremendous software options, great backward
> compatibility, and supported levels of expertise, so that a non-geek
> office worker or a "power user" can both get Windows to do what
> they want. And what they want can be a great variety of things.
>
>   Linux lacks the software. It lacks the power user level or even
> the business level. It lacks
> backward compatibility. I'm still writing software in VB6, which
> came out 25 years ago, and my software runs on every Windows
> computer. Macs typically support 2 years back. Linux... forget it.
> It's far too complicated to even update a program except through
> a package manager. The old version needed abc.dll v. 1.5.6.3243.17
> and the new version refuses to run without v. 1.5.6.3243.18. Typically
> there are 20 cases like that. Zero backward compatibility. There's
> no need. Because no one is actually using this software for anything
> except to upgrade the last version. It's all just a geek conversation.
>
>   Anyone actually using Linux, who's not a computer scientist, is
> probably just using Firefox and Libre Office. And Grandma doesn't
> even need Libre Office. The whole paradigm is a mess.
>
>   My favorite current example of this travesty is when I installed
> Xubuntu on my new computer, as part of a wide ranging experiment
> last winter. It set up OK, though it was barebones and ugly. But there
> was one detail: I couldn't set the clock and the displayed time was
> wrong. I looked all over. There were options for display style and
> such, but no option to just set the time. I searched online and finally
> found a discussion with the man who had written the clock code. He
> didn't include an option to set the time in the settings UI because he
> prefers command line! These people say these things proudly, with
> no awareness of how bratty and dysfunctional they sound. "You
> wanted a floor in your new addition? Personally I prefer unfinished
> plywood subfloor, so that's what I did. Just don't walk around barefoot.
> Splinters. Oh, and the subfloor on the east side of the room is not
> nailed down. That's handy to be able to reach the plumbing underneath
> since I didn't insulate and pipes could freeze. Enjoy. :)"

--
CrudeSausage

CrudeSausage wrote:

> (trolling snipped)

Yet millions choose to use GNU/Linux. Millsions more would if it
weren't for the FUBAR market and the FUD.

--
"You freetards nauseate me." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

Le 2024-12-19 à 14:50, chrisv a écrit :
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> (trolling snipped)
>
> Yet millions choose to use GNU/Linux. Millsions more would if it
> weren't for the FUBAR market and the FUD.

You can disagree all you want, but he's not saying things some of us
haven't experienced when using Linux. Things tend to improve when the
people working on a product actually listen to their users rather than
telling them that they're using it wrong, that their concerns aren't
valid or forcing short-sighted design decisions on them.

--
CrudeSausage

On 2024-12-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-19 à 12:19, Newyana2 a écrit :
>> On 12/19/2024 11:21 AM, Paul wrote:
>>
>>>     On balance I think the way Mint does it (still shipping
>>>     with the older kernel) is better.
>>>
>>> If your machine is relatively new, then Linux Mint 22 is a better fit.
>>> There may still be some support items not working yet. My hardware
>>> monitor
>>> sensors, still cannot be read out on three boards. If a kernel claims
>>> to be a HWE (hardware enablement kernel), that can provide better
>>> support for bleeding edge hardware (your new NPU and machine learning
>>> setup).
>>>
>>> Those choices should come closer to a friendly environment.
>>
>>     I tried Mint once. I didn't get past the kiddie folder icons.
>> I actually like Suse. It's very polished compared to most versions.
>> It also has a good software selection. Though the firewall I finally
>> got working, opensnitch, was only available through less direct
>> channels. The Suse packages are really just the basics.
>>
>>    I think the "distro" wars misses the point. There's no magical
>> version that solves the Linux problem. They're all moving
>> targets, under construction, not well designed for Desktop.
>> People always say, "Oh, well, you must not have tried AceAndAcme
>> Linux. It's the cat's pajamas." No. None of them are the cat's pajamas.
>>
>>    In more recent times, the half-baked geek versions have been
>> joined by solid versions "your gandmother could use". But that's
>> also not a solution. It's just two extremes. It's based on the typical
>> Linux devotee thinking that people are divided into hardcore geeks
>> and grandmothers. (Possibly those are the only people that these
>> geeks know.) The niche that Windows fills is the giant area in between --
>> a system with tremendous software options, great backward
>> compatibility, and supported levels of expertise, so that a non-geek
>> office worker or a "power user" can both get Windows to do what
>> they want. And what they want can be a great variety of things.
>>
>>   Linux lacks the software. It lacks the power user level or even
>> the business level. It lacks
>> backward compatibility. I'm still writing software in VB6, which
>> came out 25 years ago, and my software runs on every Windows
>> computer. Macs typically support 2 years back. Linux... forget it.
>> It's far too complicated to even update a program except through
>> a package manager. The old version needed abc.dll v. 1.5.6.3243.17
>> and the new version refuses to run without v. 1.5.6.3243.18. Typically
>> there are 20 cases like that. Zero backward compatibility. There's
>> no need. Because no one is actually using this software for anything
>> except to upgrade the last version. It's all just a geek conversation.
>>
>>   Anyone actually using Linux, who's not a computer scientist, is
>> probably just using Firefox and Libre Office. And Grandma doesn't
>> even need Libre Office. The whole paradigm is a mess.
>>
>>   My favorite current example of this travesty is when I installed
>> Xubuntu on my new computer, as part of a wide ranging experiment
>> last winter. It set up OK, though it was barebones and ugly. But there
>> was one detail: I couldn't set the clock and the displayed time was
>> wrong. I looked all over. There were options for display style and
>> such, but no option to just set the time. I searched online and finally
>> found a discussion with the man who had written the clock code. He
>> didn't include an option to set the time in the settings UI because he
>> prefers command line! These people say these things proudly, with
>> no awareness of how bratty and dysfunctional they sound. "You
>> wanted a floor in your new addition? Personally I prefer unfinished
>> plywood subfloor, so that's what I did. Just don't walk around barefoot.
>> Splinters. Oh, and the subfloor on the east side of the room is not
>> nailed down. That's handy to be able to reach the plumbing underneath
>> since I didn't insulate and pipes could freeze. Enjoy. :)"

It's total bullshit but that's what Windows fanbois seem to like.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-12-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-19 à 14:50, chrisv a écrit :
>> CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> (trolling snipped)
>>
>> Yet millions choose to use GNU/Linux. Millsions more would if it
>> weren't for the FUBAR market and the FUD.
>
> You can disagree all you want, but he's not saying things some of us
> haven't experienced when using Linux. Things tend to improve when the
> people working on a product actually listen to their users rather than
> telling them that they're using it wrong, that their concerns aren't
> valid or forcing short-sighted design decisions on them.

He's making piss-poor assumptions about why people use Linux. He's clueless.
As I've already mentioned in previous posts.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien